American Politics

[kkck]

So, opinions about illegal immigration should come from illegal immigrants?

 

[Sanity Check]

So, opinions about illegal immigration should come from illegal immigrants?

Preferably from those who know the following.

• Illegal immigrant labor was used to cleanup World Trade Center rubble post 9.11.2001
• Retailers in the USA have been caught paying illegal immigrants less than $4 an hour to clean their stores
• Open immigration was worthwhile when america had railroads to build, when construction was booming and there were many jobs to fill
• Now that america has no jobs for illegal immigrants, open immigration is not as sound a policy
• Open borders is a military tactic post 2000 with nations like turkey threatening to flood thousands of illegal immigrants into other countries as a form of economic warfare

Someone would have to know most, if not all of these, just to get the basics down.

(This is the short list)

Not only the obvious points but the less obvious ones that can be inferred.

...

edit

Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over criticism of Syria offensive

"We will open the gates and send 3.6 million refugees your way," Erdogan says in a speech.

www.cnbc.com

Illegal immigrants are used as pawns and a form of warfare. ^

 

[xi0]

Illegal immigrant labor was used to cleanup World Trade Center rubble post 9.11.2001

Terrible, but who exactly did you expect to be doing jobs involving manual labor with construction/extraction?

Retailers in the USA have been caught paying illegal immigrants less than $4 an hour to clean their stores

I'm curious what you think that is a symptom of?

Open immigration was worthwhile when america had railroads to build, when construction was booming and there were many jobs to fill

Worthwhile is a awkward way to put it, it's almost like you're only treating this issue as if immigrant labor is a commodity. Why is that?

Now that america has no jobs for illegal immigrants, open immigration is not as sound a policy

Yes, because covid has eliminated jobs on farms and in other processing industries, right?

Open borders is a military tactic post 2000 with nations like turkey threatening to flood thousands of illegal immigrants into other countries as a form of economic warfare

I'm confused. Which Central American country is attempting to wage economic warfare on us? Or are you saying we're taking in illegal immigrants in an effort to wage economic warfare on Mexico or Canada?

 

[Sanity Check]

Heh. Well.

Approximately 99.9% of the world's population are poor to middle class.

For 99.9% of everyone alive to feel oppressed or treated unfairly by a tiny 0.01% sliver of the population.

They would have to be spectacularly uninformed and unorganized.

Embarrassingly so.

Would that be fair to say?

 

[xi0]

Heh. Well.

Approximately 99.9% of the world's population are poor to middle class.

For 99.9% of everyone alive to feel oppressed or treated unfairly by a tiny 0.01% sliver of the population.

They would have to be spectacularly uninformed and unorganized.

Embarrassingly so.

Would that be fair to say?

Poor to middle class is a pretty extreme swath. If we're talking about extreme poverty, there are people who go long stretches without meaningful nutrition, lack access to clean drinking water, etc. Compare that to people who would be considered "rich" in most third world countries - owns property, a car, has a stable income etc. A distinction is still needed.

The issue with the 0.01% sliver of the population is that you do not usually arrive at that sort of position without oppressing or exploiting the other 99.9% in some fashion. That includes companies paying illegal immigrants under the table for even cheaper than the minimum they pay citizens. That is not an issue of these mythical "open borders", that is an issue with the economic system.

 

[kkck]

Huh, that took a quick turn away from illegal immigration related stuff... I wonder why.

 

[M3J]

How tough were Obama and Biden on illegal immigrants 2008-2016?

Everyone that wants to discuss illegal immigration knows as much about it, as virgins do about sex.

Would anyone here take sex advice from virgins?

Obama and Biden were just as tough on undocumented immigrants, so I don't know why the right cry about them allowing "illegal immigrants." The way it's easy for the right to lie, be wrong, and still have their voters' trust.

Wrong. It's mainly the conservatives know nothing about illegal immigration. This has been proven many times over and over.

Though I won't deny that I didn't know Obama deported a record amount of immigrants until a republican played what-aboutism to defend Trump.

Preferably from those who know the following.

• Illegal immigrant labor was used to cleanup World Trade Center rubble post 9.11.2001
• Retailers in the USA have been caught paying illegal immigrants less than $4 an hour to clean their stores
• Open immigration was worthwhile when america had railroads to build, when construction was booming and there were many jobs to fill
• Now that america has no jobs for illegal immigrants, open immigration is not as sound a policy
• Open borders is a military tactic post 2000 with nations like turkey threatening to flood thousands of illegal immigrants into other countries as a form of economic warfare

Someone would have to know most, if not all of these, just to get the basics down.

(This is the short list)

Not only the obvious points but the less obvious ones that can be inferred.

...

edit

Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over criticism of Syria offensive

"We will open the gates and send 3.6 million refugees your way," Erdogan says in a speech.

www.cnbc.com

Illegal immigrants are used as pawns and a form of warfare. ^

Basically, what I get are the following:

Undocumented immigrants are among the hardest workers
Undocumented immigrants were exploited by the horrible Americans, who treated them as less than human beings, even though these immigrants basically helped build USA as we know it now (railroad).

 

[Sanity Check]

Wrong. It's mainly the conservatives know nothing about illegal immigration. This has been proven many times over and over.

What do they "not know" about illegal immigration?

Undocumented immigrants are among the hardest workers

How can illegal immigrants work when they overwhelmingly have no job qualifications, no job skills and often do not speak english.

And what do they do if they can't find a job.

Undocumented immigrants were exploited by the horrible Americans, who treated them as less than human beings, even though these immigrants basically helped build USA as we know it now (railroad).

The woke campaign says: "all whites owned slaves".

In reality, only super rich plantation owners used slave labor to work their fields.

The wealthy should be blamed for slavery in the USA. Instead "all white people" are blamed.

Maybe you can figure out why.

...

Revealed: How atheist Richard Dawkins' family fortune came from the slave trade

Ancestors of secularist campaigner, Richard Dawkins, made their fortune from the slave trade, it has been revealed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The way things are going, Richard Dawkins could legit be awarded a nobel peace prize in 2022.

 

[xi0]

The woke campaign says: "all whites owned slaves".

In reality, only super rich plantation owners used slave labor to work their fields.

The wealthy should be blamed for slavery in the USA. Instead "all white people" are blamed.

Maybe you can figure out why.

...

Revealed: How atheist Richard Dawkins' family fortune came from the slave trade

Ancestors of secularist campaigner, Richard Dawkins, made their fortune from the slave trade, it has been revealed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The way things are going, Richard Dawkins could legit be awarded a nobel peace prize in 2022.

No one says all whites owned slaves. Acting like people say that is a misrepresentation at best, and intellectual dishonesty at worst.

There's no shortage of blame for slavery in the USA, even a small percentage of indigenous people owned slaves. To characterize the slave trade as an exclusively rich man's trade is revisionist history. Around 25% of Southerners owned slaves. In 1860 in the states that had not yet outlawed slavery, anywhere from 3% (Delaware) to 50% (Mississippi) of families in said states owned slaves.

What some might say is that most whites played a part in reinforcing white supremacy during the antebellum period and Jim Crow era, and even after the civil rights movements in the 60s there's still structures in place that are relics from this earlier time period. This is obviously not the same thing as saying "all whites owned slaves", but it seems you're yet again struggling with nuance here.

 

[Sanity Check]

No one says all whites owned slaves. Acting like people say that is a misrepresentation at best, and intellectual dishonesty at worst.

There's no shortage of blame for slavery in the USA, even a small percentage of indigenous people owned slaves. To characterize the slave trade as an exclusively rich man's trade is revisionist history. Around 25% of Southerners owned slaves. In 1860 in the states that had not yet outlawed slavery, anywhere from 3% (Delaware) to 50% (Mississippi) of families in said states owned slaves.

What some might say is that most whites played a part in reinforcing white supremacy during the antebellum period and Jim Crow era, and even after the civil rights movements in the 60s there's still structures in place that are relics from this earlier time period. This is obviously not the same thing as saying "all whites owned slaves", but it seems you're yet again struggling with nuance here.

When most speak of american slavery. They're referring to unpaid manual labor. Under inhumane and cruel conditions. Exclusively an area dominated by wealthy plantation owners.

The broader scope of "slavery" which you are referring to involve slaves being paid wages. Working under far more humanitarian conditions in contrast to the woke angle celebrities like Spike Lee, Nathan Phillips, Jussie Smollett and Colin Kaepernick push.

But what you're really missing is... what percentage of states like mississippi were composed of plantations owned by the wealthy. If half of mississippi was composed of plantation land, wouldn't it make sense that 50% of the state would be slave owners? Which says nothing about which income demographic owned them.

Higher education gender and race studies push "all whites are racist" narratives. Which are often funded by big tech. There are many articles and journalistic pieces published on this.

Most screaming about amazon, google, facebook and twitter being evil.

Are repeating talking points & studies funded by those corporations on racism in the country.

Ironic don't you think?

 

[M3J]

Slavery actually still exists, but in a form of "prison labor." I think that's the major reason why so many Black men are incarcerated.

 

[Sanity Check]

I think this is kinda cool.

From a political perspective.





If its not cool, make fun of my taste in movies.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2021 ---

Slavery actually still exists, but in a form of "prison labor." I think that's the major reason why so many Black men are incarcerated.

US police often have arrest quotas.

Its been claimed they travel to the poorest neighborhoods, inhabited by minorities to arrest randoms and fill their quotas, if they can't find legit criminals.

IMO there are sides to the debate that are not mentioned often.

 

[xi0]

When most speak of american slavery. They're referring to unpaid manual labor. Under inhumane and cruel conditions. Exclusively an area dominated by wealthy plantation owners.

The broader scope of "slavery" which you are referring to involve slaves being paid wages. Working under far more humanitarian conditions in contrast to the woke angle celebrities like Spike Lee, Nathan Phillips, Jussie Smollett and Colin Kaepernick push.

But what you're really missing is... what percentage of states like mississippi were composed of plantations owned by the wealthy. If half of mississippi was composed of plantation land, wouldn't it make sense that 50% of the state would be slave owners? Which says nothing about which income demographic owned them.

Higher education gender and race studies push "all whites are racist" narratives. Which are often funded by big tech. There are many articles and journalistic pieces published on this.

Most screaming about amazon, google, facebook and twitter being evil.

Are repeating talking points & studies funded by those corporations on racism in the country.

Ironic don't you think?

Slavery was not exclusive to the South, it was just the last place that practiced it. Of course it was more popular and far more vital to the South due to their lack of a fall line and limited industrialization as a result. Even still, 20% of the population in Southern cities were slaves. There are no plantations in cities. To characterize the issue as only being about wealth is missing the point. Yes, of course the most wealthy will exploit something like slavery on a far greater scale though, is that what you're getting at? Because I have no argument against that obviously. This doesn't change the fact that there were plenty of average people who owned slaves just because they could.

Slaves being paid wages...? If you want to talk about indentured servitude or something then do so by all means. But don't act like it was much better and absent of the same sort of ugliness. Wtf does Smollet or Kaepernick have to do with slavery?

If you think the majority of current gender and race studies exist to paint all whites as racist, what do you think "big tech" is hoping to accomplish by funding it? I'm dying to know.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2021 ---

It's always interesting how the examination of the history and/or sociology surrounding race or gender seems to only come down to "all whites are racist" for some people. I wonder why that is?

 

[Sanity Check]

Slavery was not exclusive to the South, it was just the last place that practiced it. Of course it was more popular and far more vital to the South due to their lack of a fall line and limited industrialization as a result. Even still, 20% of the population in Southern cities were slaves. There are no plantations in cities. To characterize the issue as only being about wealth is missing the point. Yes, of course the most wealthy will exploit something like slavery on a far greater scale though, is that what you're getting at? Because I have no argument against that obviously. This doesn't change the fact that there were plenty of average people who owned slaves just because they could.

Slaves being paid wages...? If you want to talk about indentured servitude or something then do so by all means. But don't act like it was much better and absent of the same sort of ugliness. Wtf does Smollet or Kaepernick have to do with slavery?

If you think the majority of current gender and race studies exist to paint all whites as racist, what do you think "big tech" is hoping to accomplish by funding it? I'm dying to know.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2021 ---

It's always interesting how the examination of the history and/or sociology surrounding race or gender seems to only come down to "all whites are racist" for some people. I wonder why that is?

AFAIK the american north of that era was primarily composed of cities. Being further north translates to a colder climate. The south being nearer to the equator produced warmer conditions better suited to growing crops. Which is part of what led to the south being pro slavery. The biggest issue of the civil war wasn't slavery but taxes. (I could be wrong on some of that BTW.)

Awhile ago I did some basic research to try to figure out what percentage of daily products people use are made in sweatshops or via slave labor. It turns out a very high percentage of goods and services the western world consumes could fall under that heading. Even seemingly innocuous things like pet food and sea salt in stores, may have roots of their production in slavery. South korea has been known to have slave camps that harvest sea salt. And parts of asia have been known to use slaves on fishing boats that collect fish based ingredients for pet foods.

Anyways. These discussions normally turn into arguments or fighting.

So I'm just throwing a few perspectives out there to see if political discussion can possibly amount to a nice chat for once.

 

[Raven]

It seems Biden isn't sticking to any of his campaign promises.

But no one here is unhappy about it.

Imo, you need to wait 6 months at least to start criticizing a new president. Don't jump the gun just yet. It's okay to criticize just be rational.

 

[M3J]

It's always interesting how the examination of the history and/or sociology surrounding race or gender seems to only come down to "all whites are racist" for some people. I wonder why that is?

for the record, although I may say otherwise, I don't think all white people are racist.

 

[ninjabot]

for the record, although I may say otherwise, I don't think all white people are racist.

Same. And I'm a black man living in the south. This is something I've never heard any other black person say, ever. EVER. We don't even say all policemen are racist. The only people that I ever hear making this assertion is conservative youtubers claiming to understand what people on the left believe. Which is dangerous because that's where a lot of people get their ideas about the other side from.

 

[Raven]

The internet is filled with Blacks who thinks all whites are racist, Not long ago, A video in UK went viral of blacks asking whites to kiss their feet to prove that they are not racist, and i have read an article made by black pulbisher saying whites should not marry with whites because it count as incest since whites look like eacother and they only wants to pass their white supremacy genes. There are many things like that and i have personally dealt with it. So the notion that blacks don't think all whites are racist is just wrong. Maybe only few blacks have this mentality but yeah it exists.

 

[ninjabot]

The internet is filled with Blacks who thinks all whites are racist, Not long ago, A video in UK went viral of blacks asking whites to kiss their feet to prove that they are not racist, and i have read an article made by black pulbisher saying whites should not marry with whites because it count as incest since whites look like eacother and they only wants to pass their white supremacy genes. There are many things like that and i have personally dealt with it. So the notion that blacks don't think all whites are racist is just wrong. Maybe only few blacks have this mentality but yeah it exists.

"Filled with"? You're being hyperbolic, lol. Your anecdotes are the exception that proves the rule. If I wanted to I could find anti-natalists that think giving birth to children is immoral. I could find black people that think life as slaves kept us from acting on our genetically intrinsic need to commit violence. I can find people that believe there's a being in the sky that can hear your thoughts and cares about who you have sex with. Doesn't mean that any of the people in these examples represent everyone in that group.

Which was my point.

 

[Raven]

Filled with"? You're being hyperbolic, lol. Your anecdotes are the exception that proves the rule. If I wanted to I could find anti-natalists that think giving birth to children is immoral. I could find black people that think life as slaves kept us from acting on our genetically intrinsic need to commit violence. I can find people that believe there's a being in the sky that can hear your thoughts and cares about who you have sex with.

This is none sense my dude, I wasn't being hyperbolic.

This is something I've never heard any other black person say, ever. EVER. We don't even say all policemen are racist

Doesn't mean that any of the people in these examples represent everyone in that group.

ofc. but then again you talked like all blacks never had this thought in consideration which is false. You sound like someone who talks in the behave of all black people. I just wanted to point out there are bad apples.