American Politics

shionoro

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The US is looking at an increasing number of refugees at its souther borders. Climate change will worsen that problem. Another thing that worsens the problem is that the US acts hostile to left wing governments in souther america while supporting right wing governments, at least to some extent.

Afghanistan was a geostrategic endevour in which the US sought to increase its safety from terrorism by waging war in the middle east (the Iraq war and some drone wars can also be understood under that lense), but that is not going to work on the long run, neither is nation building from the outside without meaningful support from the inside.

IN my opinion, the key can only be for the west to increase stability in vulnerable regions in diplomatic ways. So far, we do not do that. Instead we sometimes destabilite countries that are somewhat stable (Bolivia would be an example) or at least do not help stabilizing it.
After Afghanistan, it should be clear that we need to undertake huge efforts to learn how to stabilize by diplomacy and meaningful economical partnerships instead of just paying warlords or being a warlord ourselves.
 

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The US is looking at an increasing number of refugees at its souther borders. Climate change will worsen that problem. Another thing that worsens the problem is that the US acts hostile to left wing governments in souther america while supporting right wing governments, at least to some extent.

Afghanistan was a geostrategic endevour in which the US sought to increase its safety from terrorism by waging war in the middle east (the Iraq war and some drone wars can also be understood under that lense), but that is not going to work on the long run, neither is nation building from the outside without meaningful support from the inside.

IN my opinion, the key can only be for the west to increase stability in vulnerable regions in diplomatic ways. So far, we do not do that. Instead we sometimes destabilite countries that are somewhat stable (Bolivia would be an example) or at least do not help stabilizing it.
After Afghanistan, it should be clear that we need to undertake huge efforts to learn how to stabilize by diplomacy and meaningful economical partnerships instead of just paying warlords or being a warlord ourselves.
Well, sure, but that hostility does not exist in a vacuum. Leftwing governments south of the US are pretty hostile to the US, in large part as a consequence of US intervention in those places a few decades back (not militarily of course because, well, it'd be pathetic and pointless). As has been the case for the past decade leftwing governments in south of the US would rather sell their souls and children to china and russia than work alongside the US. Which is why countries south of the US have acquired massive debt at loan shark rates from china.

TBH I am skeptic that the US intervened in Bolivia recently. It is true that the right wing government they had while evo was not around was comically corrupt though. Unfortunately due to the US's interventions back in the day this is an easy boogieman for the left wing parties here to exploit...

I don't think the issue here is "learning to stabilize" anything. How would that even work? Normal diplomatic and economic relations are just that, normal. And it would come a long way towards actually competing with china's agenda in this part of the world (which includes the aforementioned massive loans, investments and chinese companies buying everything). The EU should also have an interest in furthering these normal economic relations more to compete with china's agenda for that matter. That is not to say there isn't stuff happening in these regard but to me it always felt like the US and EU should be doing more because china is absurdly aggressive.
 

shionoro

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Well, sure, but that hostility does not exist in a vacuum. Leftwing governments south of the US are pretty hostile to the US, in large part as a consequence of US intervention in those places a few decades back (not militarily of course because, well, it'd be pathetic and pointless). As has been the case for the past decade leftwing governments in south of the US would rather sell their souls and children to china and russia than work alongside the US. Which is why countries south of the US have acquired massive debt at loan shark rates from china.

TBH I am skeptic that the US intervened in Bolivia recently. It is true that the right wing government they had while evo was not around was comically corrupt though. Unfortunately due to the US's interventions back in the day this is an easy boogieman for the left wing parties here to exploit...

I don't think the issue here is "learning to stabilize" anything. How would that even work? Normal diplomatic and economic relations are just that, normal. And it would come a long way towards actually competing with china's agenda in this part of the world (which includes the aforementioned massive loans, investments and chinese companies buying everything). The EU should also have an interest in furthering these normal economic relations more to compete with china's agenda for that matter. That is not to say there isn't stuff happening in these regard but to me it always felt like the US and EU should be doing more because china is absurdly aggressive.
What I mean goes beyond investment (and of course, the EU should also be present in these things, but i see the EU more responsible for northern africa and the middle east than south america).
I think the US needs to undertake an honest push here to build up trust and soft power in that region again. I do not think the US intervened in Bolivia, but it also surely did not put effort into masking that it was kinda fine with the right wing takeover. I am not a huge fan of morales and his claim that the rightwing takeover was orchestrated by the US is bullshit, but it cannot be overlooked that bolivia under Morales is a somewhat stable country for the most part and extreme poverty declined.
There is room to become a positive force in the development of souther america, with a huge focus on two points, fighting poverty and fighting climate change.

Both the US and EU should invest considerable effort into making their 'backyard' ready to stand on their own two feet in a world in which resources will be much scarcer than now and many places will not be habitable anymore (especially in the middle east and south america).

If they do not do that, they are going to look at chaos at their borders that dwarves anything they saw before.

Afghanistan shows us (and lybia shows us and yemen shows us and...) that once a state failed, it is insanely hard if not impossible to rebuild it. You can pacify it for some time, but at the end of the day, without the foundation for a flourishing state, you cannot stop the decline.

The EU will look at a neighbourhood with more and more states that might fail, like lebanon or morrocco, or egypt.
But the US has their own risk factors down there and right now there is still time to minimize that risk. In 20 years, countries that are somewhat stable now might become half a dozen of Venezuelas.
 

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Wonder how long it'll take Pelosi to do/say anything regarding this?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

When the GOP wins back control of the House in 2022 and mail-in ballots are still used will the election be just as rigged? :hmm
 

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Heat death of the universe at the earliest? It's amazing how craven and pathetic mainstream democrats can be....
 

xi0

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Heat death of the universe at the earliest? It's amazing how craven and pathetic mainstream democrats can be....


It should be shocking, but I guess we're used to it
 

M3J

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Why can't we take up arms against these people first? :(
 

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Why can't we take up arms against these people first? :(
As in, other than because you don't have any? On the upside, bear arms are cheap on amazon.
 

M3J

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I'm sure plenty of left wingers and liberals do
 

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I'm sure plenty of left wingers and liberals do
Sure but there is still no scenario where the left wing in the US has anywhere near as many guns as the right wing.
 

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Well, that's true. A friend's friend showed me his huge collection of guns in an attempt to argue against gun control... on the same post of a friend who showed the amount of mass shootings that happened in the US....
 

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And.... biden's approval is lower than his disapproval. Congrats democrats, you guys are killing it.
 

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They'll blame the left and the youth though.
 

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They should though, for not appealing to them at all
 
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M3J

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Libs disagree, and many will say that we should vote for the Dems anyway over the worse choice. And honestly, I agree. Would Trump have canceled taxes on unemployment and refunded the difference? He removed protection for LGBT+ people as well, while Biden put it back in place. Biden also canceled some student loan debt, even though it was for very obviously disabled people, if I remember correctly, whereas Trump probably wouldn't have done anything.

I mean, despite what many on the left say, I'd still rather have Biden over Trump or most other republicans.
 

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I'm not suggesting people pick someone like Trump over Biden, but losing congress is pretty likely the way this administration is going. GOP just plays PR better and it's not like there's a sizable amount of voters that even care about their shit and dishonest rhetoric. Conservatives are sociopaths and liberals are pussies, what else is new?
 

M3J

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I know you're not, but I'm annoyed with people on the left acting so extreme about voting and Biden. Otherwise we don't really disagree, and I think the Dems don't even care because at the core, they agree with REpublicans for the most part but pretend otherwise for support.
 

shionoro

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It is completely clear that Biden did a good job domestically so far. The afghanistan withdrawal was a mess, but it would always have been a mess.
It was a larger mess than it needed to be if the Us administration had understood just how fast the Taliban would conquer Afghanistan, but i do not see how this dark hour of his presidency calls into question whether the democratic administration will push for domestic reform.
It does. It cannot do it has ambitiously as i'd like it to do, but that is not biden's fault. The fact that there even is a chance to get the big infrastructure deal going and not just the bipartisan package is a pretty amazing feat, so was the the first huge covid package.
 

M3J

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How is it clear he's done a good job domestically when he's not prevented people from being evicted, gave another stimulus, and canceled all student debt, for starters? If he was doing a good job, there'd be more left supporting him.
 

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It is completely clear that Biden did a good job domestically so far. The afghanistan withdrawal was a mess, but it would always have been a mess.
It was a larger mess than it needed to be if the Us administration had understood just how fast the Taliban would conquer Afghanistan, but i do not see how this dark hour of his presidency calls into question whether the democratic administration will push for domestic reform.
It does. It cannot do it has ambitiously as i'd like it to do, but that is not biden's fault. The fact that there even is a chance to get the big infrastructure deal going and not just the bipartisan package is a pretty amazing feat, so was the the first huge covid package.
I mean, what has biden done really? His administration feels entirely ineffective in general. Sure, he can't pass whatever he wants just because he is president but he isn't even giving the appearance of a fight for his policies. The infrastructure bill is a good example of him giving up IMO. They pretty much passed a republican bill. And if not that, the one republicans gave him permission for.
 
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