American Politics

[shionoro]

I mean, what has biden done really? His administration feels entirely ineffective in general. Sure, he can't pass whatever he wants just because he is president but he isn't even giving the appearance of a fight for his policies. The infrastructure bill is a good example of him giving up IMO. They pretty much passed a republican bill. And if not that, the one republicans gave him permission for.

In a partisan environment with just very thin margins in house and senate, biden pushed through one of the most ambitious policy packages in the latest US history with the covid relief package, was able to find a bipartisan infrastructure deal even with a hostile GOP and has still chances to push through another very ambitious package

That is impressive. VERY impressive. That is not a feat you get if you do not fight like hell for it. Framing it as 'they passed a republican bill' does not do it justice. They assure that some part of it would get through by using the a bipartisan strategy. And that is not a GOP bill, most of the GOP did not want that to happen. If the GOP had ruled, nothing of it would have happened. The fact that the bigger infrastructure package is not dead yet is a feat not many politicians could have pulled off, the same goes for the covid package.

If you compare that to Trump or Obama (who simliarly suffered through a bipartisan senate), Biden already got a lot done, and a lot more than could have been expected with the hand he was given.

 

[M3J]

I feel like you're way out of touch

 

[kkck]

In a partisan environment with just very thin margins in house and senate, biden pushed through one of the most ambitious policy packages in the latest US history with the covid relief package, was able to find a bipartisan infrastructure deal even with a hostile GOP and has still chances to push through another very ambitious package

That is impressive. VERY impressive. That is not a feat you get if you do not fight like hell for it. Framing it as 'they passed a republican bill' does not do it justice. They assure that some part of it would get through by using the a bipartisan strategy. And that is not a GOP bill, most of the GOP did not want that to happen. If the GOP had ruled, nothing of it would have happened. The fact that the bigger infrastructure package is not dead yet is a feat not many politicians could have pulled off, the same goes for the covid package.

If you compare that to Trump or Obama (who simliarly suffered through a bipartisan senate), Biden already got a lot done, and a lot more than could have been expected with the hand he was given.

Nah, I call BS. Infrastructure is a major issue and one that even republican voters supported. And yet biden merely passed a measly republican bill which gutted a bunch of stuff democrats allegedly cared for. How is that a major victory? It's a minor one where democrats caved in in pretty much everything they could have caved in. It's not just about passing bills, democrats need to show they can fight for bills every bit as hard as republicans can.

 

[xi0]

In a partisan environment with just very thin margins in house and senate, biden pushed through one of the most ambitious policy packages in the latest US history with the covid relief package, was able to find a bipartisan infrastructure deal even with a hostile GOP and has still chances to push through another very ambitious package

That is impressive. VERY impressive. That is not a feat you get if you do not fight like hell for it. Framing it as 'they passed a republican bill' does not do it justice. They assure that some part of it would get through by using the a bipartisan strategy. And that is not a GOP bill, most of the GOP did not want that to happen. If the GOP had ruled, nothing of it would have happened. The fact that the bigger infrastructure package is not dead yet is a feat not many politicians could have pulled off, the same goes for the covid package.

If you compare that to Trump or Obama (who simliarly suffered through a bipartisan senate), Biden already got a lot done, and a lot more than could have been expected with the hand he was given.

Original Proposal:

What ended up being passed after Democrats lubed up and bent over:

You can draw your own conclusions about how impressive this was. Well, it is definitely impressive how willing Democrats are to capitulate, can't deny that.

 

[M3J]

holy shit, I didn't know it was that bad. BUt somehow this is not shocking, given how BIden kept trying to buddy up to centrists and republicans even before winning the primary.

 

[xi0]

If you want to take it as a political victory because he actually passed something, sure, go ahead. But this kind of pattern is the exact reason why someone like Trump was elected and why we now have an ostensibly feeble geriatric in office right now getting raked over the coals by all corners of the media.

 

[kkck]

Original Proposal:

What ended up being passed after Democrats lubed up and bent over:

You can draw your own conclusions about how impressive this was. Well, it is definitely impressive how willing Democrats are to capitulate, can't deny that.

Yep... spineless fools the lot of them. Nancy Pelosi and her ilk most of all. Can't wait for the next session to pass however many billions republicans want for military spending in spite of the fact that the US just withdrew from a war.

 

[shionoro]

Nah, I call BS. Infrastructure is a major issue and one that even republican voters supported. And yet biden merely passed a measly republican bill which gutted a bunch of stuff democrats allegedly cared for. How is that a major victory? It's a minor one where democrats caved in in pretty much everything they could have caved in. It's not just about passing bills, democrats need to show they can fight for bills every bit as hard as republicans can.

What republican voters support does not matter here. The GOP didnt. Biden passed more than most of the GOP was comfortable with already, and that is a major victory because it does not exclude the fight for the bigger package. The fact alone that this bigger package is not dead even tho they have a margin of zero room for error is already a major feat.

Calling that 'caving in' is a denial of reality. Trump was not able to get anything as major as that through, because if inner GOP resistances. He was able to do the tax cut and that was that. Yes, trump was able to get judges he liekd and all that, but as far as policy is concerned, Biden's job so far has been absolutely stellar. There was no room to get more done in that field than biden did, plain and simple.
And there was a lot of room to get nothing done if they had not played their cards right.

You can draw your own conclusions about how impressive this was. Well, it is definitely impressive how willing Democrats are to capitulate, can't deny that.

This is a huge misrepresentation tho because it excludes the fact that the far larger package is not dead yet. What democrats did there was already more than republicans were willing to do, and they already got it done. You basically blame democrats for the fact that they went with a route that makes it possible to get the larger package done instead of wanting to get it in one go and fail.
And that is not a rational thing to do.

The democrat plan to make some of the infrastructure package bipartisan means that less has to be done via reconciliation, which means the larger package has a better chance of passing. Had they not done that, you would have got nothing or even less with zero chance of anything remotely green or social passing. Why would that be good?

 

[kkck]

What republican voters support does not matter here. The GOP didnt. Biden passed more than most of the GOP was comfortable with already, and that is a major victory because it does not exclude the fight for the bigger package. The fact alone that this bigger package is not dead even tho they have a margin of zero room for error is already a major feat.

Calling that 'caving in' is a denial of reality. Trump was not able to get anything as major as that through, because if inner GOP resistances. He was able to do the tax cut and that was that. Yes, trump was able to get judges he liekd and all that, but as far as policy is concerned, Biden's job so far has been absolutely stellar. There was no room to get more done in that field than biden did, plain and simple.
And there was a lot of room to get nothing done if they had not played their cards right.



This is a huge misrepresentation tho because it excludes the fact that the far larger package is not dead yet. What democrats did there was already more than republicans were willing to do, and they already got it done. You basically blame democrats for the fact that they went with a route that makes it possible to get the larger package done instead of wanting to get it in one go and fail.
And that is not a rational thing to do.

The democrat plan to make some of the infrastructure package bipartisan means that less has to be done via reconciliation, which means the larger package has a better chance of passing. Had they not done that, you would have got nothing or even less with zero chance of anything remotely green or social passing. Why would that be good?

I mean, those are technically out there... But how much of that do you think democrats will actually fight for? If this is how democrats advance it'll take 40 biden presidencies until the breadcrumbs amount to something. As for trump... Say what you will but during his presidency there was plenty of legislation which was passed which was important to his base and republicans in general even if sure, on infrastructure they gave up because comically they couldn't afford it due to tax cuts (which were not even THAT popular).

 

[shionoro]

mean, those are technically out there... But how much of that do you think democrats will actually fight for? If this is how democrats advance it'll take 40 biden presidencies until the breadcrumbs amount to something. As for trump... Say what you will but during his presidency there was plenty of legislation which was passed which was important to his base and republicans in general even if sure, on infrastructure they gave up because comically they couldn't afford it due to tax cuts (which were not even THAT popular).

I think democrats already fought extremely hard for it. The fact that it is still out there means that pelosi, schumer, sanders and biden (and others of course) put insane efforts into keeping it alive.
And what biden did so far are not breadcrumbs. I really do not know how it can be called that way. The covid package was major legislation, which amounts to far, far, far more than the things trump did. Yes, trump passed some legislation his base liked, but they were all relatively minor things aside from his tax cut.
Trump was not able to destroy ACA even tho he had all branches of government with a better margin than biden has. That longstanding republican goal, just because they were inept.

Democrats, on the other hand, already got a lot done with the covid package and are looking for another major win with the infrastructure plan, but freak out because manchin might cut it down, while they think trump got major wins even tho one of the republican mainprojects, destroying ACA, was stopped in a republican controlled government.

That is some major warped view. Republicans, under trump, got very little done. They took more power via the judges, but as far as legistlation goes, they failed. Biden however, in an environment that leaves zero room for error and with a democrat party that is divided between the manchins and the AOCs, is able to somehow navigate this party to pass major legislation in a VERY difficult process of reconciliation. That is a huge feat and seeing it as breadcrumbs or thinking they are not fighting hard for it is just untrue and nothing else.

 

[kkck]

I think democrats already fought extremely hard for it. The fact that it is still out there means that pelosi, schumer, sanders and biden (and others of course) put insane efforts into keeping it alive.
And what biden did so far are not breadcrumbs. I really do not know how it can be called that way. The covid package was major legislation, which amounts to far, far, far more than the things trump did. Yes, trump passed some legislation his base liked, but they were all relatively minor things aside from his tax cut.
Trump was not able to destroy ACA even tho he had all branches of government with a better margin than biden has. That longstanding republican goal, just because they were inept.

Democrats, on the other hand, already got a lot done with the covid package and are looking for another major win with the infrastructure plan, but freak out because manchin might cut it down, while they think trump got major wins even tho one of the republican mainprojects, destroying ACA, was stopped in a republican controlled government.

That is some major warped view. Republicans, under trump, got very little done. They took more power via the judges, but as far as legistlation goes, they failed. Biden however, in an environment that leaves zero room for error and with a democrat party that is divided between the manchins and the AOCs, is able to somehow navigate this party to pass major legislation in a VERY difficult process of reconciliation. That is a huge feat and seeing it as breadcrumbs or thinking they are not fighting hard for it is just untrue and nothing else.

This is every democratic presidency:

Wink wink - Funny

13,909 points • 1,218 comments

9gag.com

I don't even agree with some of those but this is a fairly accurate depiction of what voting for a democrat is like...

Warped? What's warped about expecting a party to fight for the things they were voted for?

 

[M3J]

I think democrats already fought extremely hard for it. The fact that it is still out there means that pelosi, schumer, sanders and biden (and others of course) put insane efforts into keeping it alive.
And what biden did so far are not breadcrumbs. I really do not know how it can be called that way. The covid package was major legislation, which amounts to far, far, far more than the things trump did. Yes, trump passed some legislation his base liked, but they were all relatively minor things aside from his tax cut.
Trump was not able to destroy ACA even tho he had all branches of government with a better margin than biden has. That longstanding republican goal, just because they were inept.

Democrats, on the other hand, already got a lot done with the covid package and are looking for another major win with the infrastructure plan, but freak out because manchin might cut it down, while they think trump got major wins even tho one of the republican mainprojects, destroying ACA, was stopped in a republican controlled government.

That is some major warped view. Republicans, under trump, got very little done. They took more power via the judges, but as far as legistlation goes, they failed. Biden however, in an environment that leaves zero room for error and with a democrat party that is divided between the manchins and the AOCs, is able to somehow navigate this party to pass major legislation in a VERY difficult process of reconciliation. That is a huge feat and seeing it as breadcrumbs or thinking they are not fighting hard for it is just untrue and nothing else.

Not hard enough if they severely compromised and reduced so much just to appease republicans.

Trump also got people $600 per week and at least two pandemic stimulus, whereas Biden went from promising $2000 in stimulus to saying $1,400 because we already got $600.

Trump got plenty done. He upheld his promises of trying to ban abortion, building a wall, relaxed gun control (people with a history of disability/mental illness can buy guns), and so much more. He won not because most of the promises came true, but because he followed through, whether he really cared to or not. If it weren't for covid, Trump likely would have won again.

 

[xi0]

They know it wasn't staged, but boy do they like using court proceedings to feed into that conspiracy theory!

 

[kkck]

Not hard enough if they severely compromised and reduced so much just to appease republicans.

Trump also got people $600 per week and at least two pandemic stimulus, whereas Biden went from promising $2000 in stimulus to saying $1,400 because we already got $600.

Trump got plenty done. He upheld his promises of trying to ban abortion, building a wall, relaxed gun control (people with a history of disability/mental illness can buy guns), and so much more. He won not because most of the promises came true, but because he followed through, whether he really cared to or not. If it weren't for covid, Trump likely would have won again.

It's not even that.... It's fairly clear that when democrats compromise with republicans even then it's republicans that are winning. When was the last time a democratic compromise got them stuff their base actually wanted? Compromises are fine and necessary but that also implies republicans extend a hand and also give stuff up. Meanwhile what happens is that republicans ask for compromises, take everything and give nothing back. And that while calling democrats pedophiles, satanic, traitors, unamerican and whichever expletive you can think of. Republicans approach every single issue guns blazing, it's time democrats do the same. Civility is dead.

 

[M3J]

It's not even that.... It's fairly clear that when democrats compromise with republicans even then it's republicans that are winning. When was the last time a democratic compromise got them stuff their base actually wanted? Compromises are fine and necessary but that also implies republicans extend a hand and also give stuff up. Meanwhile what happens is that republicans ask for compromises, take everything and give nothing back. And that while calling democrats pedophiles, satanic, traitors, unamerican and whichever expletive you can think of. Republicans approach every single issue guns blazing, it's time democrats do the same. Civility is dead.

That's exactly why I know Democrats don't give a shit, they just pretend to because it means easy support. That's a huge part of why Clinton lost to Trump, despite what her supporters claim. It's also why moderate Dems/centrists like Biden and Pelosi are so fucking annoying, they let republicans do and get away with almost anything and aren't hard on them the way republicans are on democrats.

 

[Sanity Check]

It's also why moderate Dems/centrists like Biden and Pelosi

Quick question(s).

Can the taliban be conservative right if they announce their biggest ally is left wing china?

Can Biden, Pelosi and democrats be centrist/moderate with left wing china being one of their biggest allies as well?

Many of you post things in this thread that exhibit a concerning lack of skepticisim & questioning of perspective.

 

[xi0]

Quick question(s).

Can the taliban be conservative right if they announce their biggest ally is left wing china?

Can Biden, Pelosi and democrats be centrist/moderate with left wing china being one of their biggest allies as well?

Many of you post things in this thread that exhibit a concerning lack of skepticisim & questioning of perspective.

Yes because an actual political spectrum doesn't consist of only an x-axis... well, that and money mattering more than any of that in the first place.

 

[Sanity Check]

Yes because an actual political spectrum doesn't consist of only an x-axis... well, that and money mattering more than any of that in the first place.

The media could publish this picture of Sasuke on CNN labeling him a moderate/centrist.

And the modern day public would fail to question how Sasuke could be a moderate/centrist when his biggest allies and supporters are extremists and terrorist groups like akatsuki.

That's how far our standards have fallen. And how people have absolutely refused to be skeptical or question any "official position" stated by the media.

 

[xi0]

But who would label him a centrist and why would they do that? Fuck the modern day public, anyone who read Naruto would know that's utter bullshit. He would either be labeled a revolutionary or a terrorist, depending on their position.

Wtf is this analogy though

 

[Sanity Check]

Wtf is this analogy though

Sasuke could never be a moderate centrist while being allied with extremist akatsuki.

Just as Biden, Pelosi and democrats could NEVER be centrist moderate being allied with far left china.

Only groups and individuals who share common goals and values can form alliances.