American Politics

[xi0]

Curious no one is referring to YOU as a Putin shill. For posting truths.

One might just wonder why that is.

Do you want consolation of some kind? Not really sure what the persecution complex is about here. Maybe it's the red name or I'm not being confrontational about the topic?

I'm also not diametrically opposed to their political positions either. I just think too many people have a gaping blind spot when it comes to the imperialist nature of western world, and what OUR governments do on a regular basis. Like how the world at large gave no fucks about what Russia did in Georgia because we were too busy wasting billions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or that every person was glued to the news or Twitter while the US passed more sanctions against Yemen while they're under constant bombardment by Saudi Arabia.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Do you want consolation of some kind? Not really sure what the persecution complex is about here. Maybe it's the red name or I'm not being confrontational about the topic?

I'm also not diametrically opposed to their political positions either. I just think too many people have a gaping blind spot when it comes to the imperialist nature of western world, and what OUR governments do on a regular basis. Like how the world at large gave no fucks about what Russia did in Georgia because we were too busy wasting billions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or that every person was glued to the news or Twitter while the US passed more sanctions against Yemen while they're under constant bombardment by Saudi Arabia.

Well, that's clearly what is going on. Hesitancy to challenge an admin and/or the fact that many of your OTHER polics align.

I'm just making a point. I hardly need to be coddled. I'm clearly just using your post as a springboard to reference other posts.

I'm unaware of how I've been confrontational specifically about the facts of how the situation in Eastern Europe is way more intricate than merely demonizing Putin, as if that's a hot take, and stopping the discussion short of our own involvement, addressing the realities of corruption in Uke's own forces and leaders, referencing things we could have done to stop this, etc.

Confrontational in OTHER ways? Sure, ofc. I do happen to like punching down from time to time....

The point remains when I allude to ultranationalists in Ukraine - which very much exist and are being tapped as a resource (and have been historically) - and not even in the context that this somehow makes the invasion justified (something I have in no way said or implied) - I'm told I'm shilling for Putin.

Oh, and I'm ALSO someone that neonazis would love simultaneously. I'm then both a nazi AND idolizing the guy that is killing - at least in part - nazis in Ukraine.

Because that makes perfect sense.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 27, 2022 ---

I've got it - I'm a self-hating nazi!

 

[ninjabot]

I've been seeing Ukrainian tutorials for civilians talking about areas where they should strike to take out certain tanks. And tutorials on how to make molotov cocktails with styrofoam added in order to make a molten sludge when the cocktail ignites against it's target, making it harder to put the flames out. And there are bars mass producing the cocktails to hand out to civilians.

Everyone's doing their part.

Glad our taxes go to such righteous freedom fighters! /s

This is exactly what happens in a country like Ukraine, stuck between two superpowers. Reactionaries are armed and sensible people end up confused about who they're supporting. This certainly heavily contrasts with the throngs of westoid morons insistent on romanticizing what's happening.

I dunno about you, but if I had to choose between dying to protect someone from another country, or sending racists to die in my stead... *shrugs*

BTW, is the lard supposed to be the same thing as Jihawg ammo? Where they would coat ammo in pork because Muslims aren't allowed to have it in their bodies, thus "supposedly" sending them straight to hell when shot? Because there are Chechen Muslims they'll be fighting?

 

[xi0]

I dunno about you, but if I had to choose between dying to protect someone from another country, or sending racists to die in my stead... *shrugs*

BTW, is the lard supposed to be the same thing as Jihawg ammo? Where they would coat ammo in pork because Muslims aren't allowed to have it in their bodies, thus "supposedly" sending them straight to hell when shot? Because there are Chechen Muslims they'll be fighting?

Well, it's not just racists. They're Slavs that are neonazis. No, I'm not making that up. The issue is what kind of role they'll have in the future of the country too, the Azov Battalion already make up a significant portion of the National Guard, as evidenced by that being posted on their official accounts.

Yeah that's the implication. That and calling them "orcs"...

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Exactly, the 'orc' and hord references are key.

One slight correction is it is just used to rally the racist morale. No one ACTUALLY thinks they can't reach paradise on either side of this. Or, if they do they are ignorant. Eating pork isn't a sin if forced or starving.

It's merely to add insult to injury.

Oh, and lard/crisco/tallow as a bore lube has been used in the past, in a pinch, particularly in colder climates where it will not melt easily and make a huge mess. It's hardly ideal, and requires a thorough cleaning after, but this is wartime of sorts so it's actually kind of functional and the lifetime of the weapon isn't currently a concern.

 

[M3J]

I hope at some point soon, the Russian soldiers stop listening to Putin and not get involved in the war before too many lives are lost

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Are muslims allowed to eat pork and other forbidden food when imprisoned, during starvation and other exceptional circumstances?

Someone told me that the Quran explicitly allows muslims to eat otherwise banned food when imprisoned, during starvation and similar. It makes sense but I would like a source for it.

islam.stackexchange.com

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 27, 2022 ---

• He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (2:173)

So this is hardly 'functional' other than to just show how lowly they view them as subhuman.

 

[ninjabot]

I hope at some point soon, the Russian soldiers stop listening to Putin and not get involved in the war before too many lives are lost

Like 2000 people have been arrested at Russian protests, so there's a good amount that don't want any part of it. I saw last night a vid where a Russian captive was allowed to call his parents and let them know what happened.

EDIT: On second thought... probably shouldn't post that here. It's age restricted. It's on youtube if y'all haven't watched :l

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 27, 2022 ---

Well, it's not just racists. They're Slavs that are neonazis. No, I'm not making that up. The issue is what kind of role they'll have in the future of the country too, the Azov Battalion already make up a significant portion of the National Guard, as evidenced by that being posted on their official accounts.

Well it isn't ideal, but I imagine that's what convinced them to arm the Azov Battalion: the fact that they're already trained and capable. And I don't pretend to know what the plan is to deal with them after this war is over with, but I don't think NATO and the US have failed to think that far ahead.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Like 2000 people have been arrested at Russian protests, so there's a good amount that don't want any part of it. I saw last night a vid where a Russian captive was allowed to call his parents and let them know what happened.

Putin's government is also working to block social media stories that paint Russia in a bad light. No one thinks he's a good guy.

He's also making a point to not try and target civilians indiscriminately (so far, for the most part, some civilian deaths are obviously impossible to avoid). The utilities are all on, gas, water, electric, and even internet in Kiev. He doesn't want to burn the country down or create any more bad blood than already present. He is making an effort to show he wants the civilians to return to life as normal, just with a different government installed. He's doing what we did with subterfuge (causing deaths, including innocent civilians, if that's TRULY a concern to be had by some), only militarily out in the open.

I'm in *no way* saying he's justified in full or in part with the total invasion here (Donbas is arguable, IMO, in part at least), but he could be making this MUCH, MUCH worse for Uke's and the job of leveling Kiev and other metros a lot quicker. I know this will be taken out of context but what he's actually showing is a type of restraint. Compared to what could be happening for certain. And his restraint is being called a weakness because corporate media is saying he's taking too long or having too much resistance in taking over his military targets. There is ample evidence he could easily move up that timeline if he didn't care about the welfare of the civilians at least in part, and no, I don't mean using nukes.

This isn't about conquering a people, or punishing a population, or extermination/genocide, or destroying a rival. It's purely about his beef with the government and its military - which is largely both integrated with bad actors. People that we support just to spite the Russians and advance our own interests in Eastern Europe (such as energy dominance).

 

[M3J]

Like 2000 people have been arrested at Russian protests, so there's a good amount that don't want any part of it. I saw last night a vid where a Russian captive was allowed to call his parents and let them know what happened.

EDIT: On second thought... probably shouldn't post that here. It's age restricted. It's on youtube if y'all haven't watched :l

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 27, 2022 ---

Well it isn't ideal, but I imagine that's what convinced them to arm the Azov Battalion: the fact that they're already trained and capable. And I don't pretend to know what the plan is to deal with them after this war is over with, but I don't think NATO and the US have failed to think that far ahead.

Yeah, tons of Russians are protesting, so hopefully it's a matter of time before the troops realize PUtin's going too far. Even better if they somehow manage to incapacitate him and anyone else who could come into power that has similar viewpoints as Putin.

It doesn't help though, that a lot of countries are not letting nonwhite Ukrainians or people from Ukraine coming in. It's so fucked up

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Well it isn't ideal, but I imagine that's what convinced them to arm the Azov Battalion: the fact that they're already trained and capable. And I don't pretend to know what the plan is to deal with them after this war is over with, but I don't think NATO and the US have failed to think that far ahead.

This is the same argument Republicans and neocons make, btw.

It's also the same argument that funding/arming/training ISIS and/or AQ in the Middle East is justifiable just because we don't like Assad, who is partial to Moscow. Making a deal with worse devils when there are clear side-effects, unintended consequences, civilian deaths exacerbated, humanitarian crises created, and conflicts of interests abound.

But but but but Pooti Bad, Ya'll!

It's also hilarious to mention a 'plan to deal with them' - there is no such thing. We leveraged overt racists as a fighting force, as we've been doing to outright terrorists, and haven't shown any interest in 'dealing with them' for the better part of a decade. Because they are useful. No fucks are given by Washington the harm they cause for those around them, or the optics of supporting them - which of course the media downplays by un or under reporting.

And the Azov Battalion is not the only ultranationalist, racist, ultra-right wing group in Ukraine. They're just the most notable/sizable.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 27, 2022 ---

Yeah, tons of Russians are protesting, so hopefully it's a matter of time before the troops realize PUtin's going too far. Even better if they somehow manage to incapacitate him and anyone else who could come into power that has similar viewpoints as Putin.

It doesn't help though, that a lot of countries are not letting nonwhite Ukrainians or people from Ukraine coming in. It's so fucked up

So you've probably seen the black people being blocked from getting on the trains by racists to be able to flee the country then as well.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2022 ---

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23BlackInUkraine

 

[M3J]

So you've probably seen the black people being blocked from getting on the trains by racists to be able to flee the country then as well.

Black people, Indians, etc or not being able to get in the country (like Poland) when they got to the border.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Black people, Indians, etc or not being able to get in the country (like Poland) when they got to the border.

Check the twitter search link I just posted - many aren't even getting that far.

 

[xi0]

Well it isn't ideal, but I imagine that's what convinced them to arm the Azov Battalion: the fact that they're already trained and capable. And I don't pretend to know what the plan is to deal with them after this war is over with, but I don't think NATO and the US have failed to think that far ahead.

They didn't just arm them, the CIA trained them. I'm sure you can think back to previous examples of this kind of thing happening and can see what I'm getting at.

It's not about failing to think that far ahead, they literally don't care. That's just how the Pentagon operates.

 

[M3J]

Check the twitter search link I just posted - many aren't even getting that far.

But some are.


The way this war is proving just how racist so many people are, and the fact that they're not even addressing the West's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan and calling Ukraine civilized.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Don't forget the usual player Republicans using this crisis as an excuse to make arguments that we should have more energy production domestically, to rival Russia even more (as a seller and a buyer) - did you know in 2021 a FIFTH of our gas imports were from Russia?

Anyways, being energy secure is one thing and arguably ideal (we've done it before, recently), but of course has implications for the debate over green energy and hydrocarbons/carbon capture, climate change etc.

It's not then unnoticed that these Republicans happen to be in energy states with ties to Big Oil or coal or whatever themselves. The arguments over domestic pipelines are back in the media cycle.

Hillary uses this as a chance to jab at Trump. Trump uses it to jab at Biden. All our leaders can't let a good crisis go to waste and start with agendas and smear campaigns.

We should be very proud.



It's hard to get ANY clear picture of right and wrong in some instances now, if it ever was possible in the first place.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 27, 2022 ---

But some are.


The way this war is proving just how racist so many people are, and the fact that they're not even addressing the West's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan and calling Ukraine civilized.

I'm not in disagreement with you. I'm in total agreement. It's terrifying to think you got to the border but you can't cross.

But it's even worse to think you can't even get started to GET to said border.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2022 ---

The way this war is proving just how racist so many people are, and the fact that they're not even addressing the West's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan and calling Ukraine civilized.

You and I *certainly* don't agree on a great many things. And domestic racism (when/were it actually occurs) is certainly very real and in no way justifiable.

But, let me just say this. This should serve to show the severity of REAL racism - systemic, cultural, ingrained, overt, wide-spread... however you'd like to classify it.

A lot of domestic racism has been blown up out of proportion (particularly recently) and made to seem as genocidal or something when it really isn't, and is much more isolated comparatively. You may not agree, sure.



Do you think this (like what you see at the train stations) would happen if the US was facing a similar existential threat? I don't. Maybe I'm just naive.

 

[ninjabot]

They didn't just arm them, the CIA trained them. I'm sure you can think back to previous examples of this kind of thing happening and can see what I'm getting at.

It's not about failing to think that far ahead, they literally don't care. That's just how the Pentagon operates.

Yeah, what with ISIS and probably other groups I don't know about. And I feel like the Pentagon would care if they felt like it was creating a problem they would have to deal with later. But it isn't. The Pentagon isn't in Ukraine.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Both sides with the propaganda.

"Among the calamities of War may be justly numbered the diminution of the love of truth, by the falsehoods which interest dictates and credulity encourages."

 

[shionoro]

But only one side is led by a fascist imperator who has gone mad and threatens nuclear war against the world

I am very glad to see how public opinion has turned. If it goes on like it is going right now, Lukashenko and Putin will be finished when this is over. Right now the players of the world can decide whether they want to stand on the right side of history.

The Biden administration does and it seems like Trump has noticed that betting on Putin is a losing bet, too.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

War is never good.

The civilians should always be the primary concern (this sympathy should extend to cultural Russians in the Donbas)

Putin is a thug and dictatorial. He has overextended himself in Ukraine morally. Depending on how this plays out possibly militarily.



That apparently has to be said (rolls eyes). But here's some light reading for context before one gets all excitable about Pooti-Poot being Hitler incarnate:

Civilians Killed & Wounded | Costs of War

The Costs of War Project is a team of 35 scholars, legal experts, human rights practitioners, and physicians, which began its work in 2011. We use research and a public website to facilitate debate about the costs of the post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

watson.brown.edu

.

The US Has Been at war 225 out of 243 years since 1776

The American history of overt and covert foreign interventions dates back to 1811, when it had invaded Chile, just a year after this South American country had gained independence from...

www.thenews.com.pk

Civilian casualties from the United States drone strikes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This largely ignores the humanitarian crisis and deaths from our involvement at any level. Which has been estimated to be in the hundreds of thousands if not over a million.