I think you should do that if you think the democratic party should change. Its not gonna happen if nobody rallies behind sanders. There are going to be primaries for midterms and that is where a leftturn can be initiated. The groundwork for that starts now.
I would like to reiterate that the party had over 8 years to change, and they failed to. They realized they needed the left to win after 2016, and we got Biden. Thought they didn't need the left anymore, and we got Trump again. Dems do not want to learn their lessons or change, and that is the problem. Bernie cannot do much as long as Dems continue to be horrible, and as long as voters do not acknowledge that they were pieces of shit during and after the election.
Would be nice if more Dems started working to be better and earning votes, but they won't.
The problem is that they have no plan or strategy. Rally behind Bernie, then what? You'll still have half (or more) of the country telling you they don't want to pay for peoples' college, daycare or healthcare regardless of whether they're pissed at Trump or not. The midterms are pretty likely to be consistent with the past - a bunch of bubbles (like reddit) making a small subset of voters feel like it's impossible for them to lose. Then when the midterms happen and we end up with something like a split congress with 51 democrats and 49 republicans, the democrats are going to be too chickenshit to do anything for fear or retribution. We'll still see them passing any budget Trump wants when any form of Government shutdown comes up because Government shutdowns are a tool for the right and the death knell of the left.
Their current strategy is literally "when shit gets really bad, our voters will come back to us!" Meanwhile donors are pulling out at alarming rates.
counterpoint: It's been only a few months since democrats got humiliated and crushed. Fixing this, if it gets fixed, requires time and very possibly new democrats. And also a new strategy and a basic acknowledgement of all the things that went wrong leading up to trump's victory. Add to that, even if democrats had found a soul, a spine and platform the day after trump's win they'd still be in the same boat they are now. With trump having a reasonably strong mandate for his nonsense and democrats being.. unpopular and largely unable to stop trump's bigger numbers in the senate and congress. The world has not ended and democrats won't be able to do much of anything until the after the next primaries at the earliest.
Super sad when foreigners recognize better political strategy for us than actual Americans do. It's even sadder when you recognize the people rejecting what you're saying know you're right, but recognize admitting you're right means conceding to Democrats so they'd rather cede more ground to conservatives instead.
When we have no leaders, and someone steps up with a plan, the worst possible thing you can do is remain still. Someone's gotta do something, and at least Bernie is trying to get some damned momentum going.
You dismiss this strategy if you want, but the recent election shows this works. Voters switched away from Democrats in the first place because they weren't satisfied with the previous administration's decisions. Why is leaving Democrats out of disappointment possible, but leaving Republicans out of disappointment isn't?
At this rate sure, all Republicans would have to do to break that repetitive pendulum swing back to Dems, is convince Americans that these 4 years were better than Biden's 4 years in 2028. I imagine that's why all the rapid EOs are happening early, so that people will have a whole presidential term to get over the whiplash of all of his radical actions and make it harder for people to remember how bad they fucked up by not choosing Kamala.
I can absolutely understand the view that midterms might not matter anymore. I personally think otherwise (Trump's strategy is "Shock and Awe". He is very fast and dangerous, but he still probably cannot steal the midterms completely. After all, even Dictators like Erdogan lost elections and he had way more time).
But if we just, for argument's sake, assume voting does not matter, then we still need to stop talking about the past democrat failing and instead talk about what to do next constructively. I am close to groups that do think organizing in a party is bad and instead a revolution has to come from the streets. There is nothing wrong with it, but if one believes it, they would have to join such a group now or found one.
Democrats aren't going to do shit. It takes enough effort to get them to go stand in front of a camera in front of agencies they have never visited before to say some nice things and be denied entry to a building by police. Assuming a Democracy still exists in two to four years, the most likely thing that happens going forward is the vast amount of narcissists gathered in one place create a steady amount of in-fighting which causes a high level of churn in the cabinet (as happened in Trump's first term). Democrats may nominate a mid-40's male candidate who has some level of reach that can capture both moderates and never-Trumpers, the House and Senate barely change due to the amount of House seats in rural areas. Thomas will probably be forced to retire, securing another ultra-conservative judge who's in their 40s. Democrats will take to the streets with signs saying "stack the courts!" Nothing will happen. More rights are going to be eroded regardless of who's the president due to the make up of the court(s) and how challenges are brought up.
With all of this it's probably still 50/50 Democrats throw a candidate into the ring who is not palatable to the average US voter (regardless of political affiliation).
Democrats might do that mistake, but that is exactly why I would ask for support for Bernie right now so he and other leftwing dem candidates have a chance to push through. As long as there is a shot, why not take it?
It does not make a lot of sense to me to complain about the bad in the democratic party if there is no intention to actually fight it.
Super sad when foreigners recognize better political strategy for us than actual Americans do. It's even sadder when you recognize the people rejecting what you're saying know you're right, but recognize admitting you're right means conceding to Democrats so they'd rather cede more ground to conservatives instead.
When we have no leaders, and someone steps up with a plan, the worst possible thing you can do is remain still. Someone's gotta do something, and at least Bernie is trying to get some damned momentum going.
--- Double P
Yeah, I think there is a huge hopelessness going around right now with people having a hard time to find enough hope to get active. On the flip side, any democrat or leftwing independent who manages to inspire hope right now can probably build momentum. I really hope Bernie can manage to do that again.
There are many parts that are necessary for a united front, and many of these are in disarray right now sadly.
I would like to reiterate that the party had over 8 years to change, and they failed to. They realized they needed the left to win after 2016, and we got Biden. Thought they didn't need the left anymore, and we got Trump again. Dems do not want to learn their lessons or change, and that is the problem. Bernie cannot do much as long as Dems continue to be horrible, and as long as voters do not acknowledge that they were pieces of shit during and after the election.
Would be nice if more Dems started working to be better and earning votes, but they won't.
Change often comes in a time of weakness. I do think that if a person like Bernie came around with ANY, really ANY positive momentum, they'd take that straw because everybody knows that their moderate candidates have just failed.
There is a lot of territorial behavior of course, but ultimately a party without power is not what the higher ups can accept.
After all, Bernie's second run was taken with much less hostilities than his first.
I would like to reiterate that the party had over 8 years to change, and they failed to. They realized they needed the left to win after 2016, and we got Biden. Thought they didn't need the left anymore, and we got Trump again. Dems do not want to learn their lessons or change, and that is the problem. Bernie cannot do much as long as Dems continue to be horrible, and as long as voters do not acknowledge that they were pieces of shit during and after the election.
Would be nice if more Dems started working to be better and earning votes, but they won't.
Nah it's cool, they're going to rightfully crow about how Republicans are fascists (they are), but then spend their losing terms capitulating ad nauseum while Hakeem Jeffries complains he can't do anything while he's selling his book, and Chuck Schumer... ugh *gestures wildly at his last decade at least*.
The Dems basically need their own version of the Tea Party or they're stuck in a loser death spiral for the foreseeable future and they're taking us all down with them so that fossils can continue to leech power from the people until they croak and leave a vacuum for monsters to take, like RBG.
Everyday "I'm just not into politics" non-voters who are largely responsible for this shit (if we're going to blame the people and not power, which is a whole 'nother conversation) are even seeing now what the term "controlled opposition" means. Blue-no-matter-who libs are seeing that. MAGA turds are inundating their conservative town halls with legit grievances they don't understand they participated in causing.
Change often comes in a time of weakness. I do think that if a person like Bernie came around with ANY, really ANY positive momentum, they'd take that straw because everybody knows that their moderate candidates have just failed.
There is a lot of territorial behavior of course, but ultimately a party without power is not what the higher ups can accept.
After all, Bernie's second run was taken with much less hostilities than his first.
I'd like to reiterate, if Dems cared, then they'd have run with Bernie or Warren. Hell, they could have gotten Bernie after Biden stepped down from the election instead of choosing one of the least popular candidates.
They need to get past their arrogance and feeling of immunity, which I think is a huge part of why they don't fight as hard as they should. Most of the Dems either benefit or aren't hurt by REpublicans' bullshit as far as I know
Nah it's cool, they're going to rightfully crow about how Republicans are fascists (they are), but then spend their losing terms capitulating ad nauseum while Hakeem Jeffries complains he can't do anything while he's selling his book, and Chuck Schumer... ugh *gestures wildly at his last decade at least*.
The Dems basically need their own version of the Tea Party or they're stuck in a loser death spiral for the foreseeable future and they're taking us all down with them so that fossils can continue to leech power from the people until they croak and leave a vacuum for monsters to take, like RBG.
Everyday "I'm just not into politics" non-voters who are largely responsible for this shit (if we're going to blame the people and not power, which is a whole 'nother conversation) are even seeing now what the term "controlled opposition" means. Blue-no-matter-who libs are seeing that. MAGA turds are inundating their conservative town halls with legit grievances they don't understand they participated in causing.
I think first, majority of the Dems need to actually care. They aren't as focused on winning every two years as they should be, otherwise we'd have had better candidates, and Bernie wouldn't have been sabotaged. Republicans know winning is the endgame, so they will work together to make that happen, while Dems would rather have their own people in power.
Blue-no-matter-who libs could have helped Dems win 2024 I think, but they were too busy being shitbricks to care. An example being destiny and his hostility towards the left, even though a bit of critical thinking showed that Dems had no chance without the left.
Yeah, can't feel bad for the MAGA who realized that they made a bad decision after ignoring countless of warnings.
I'd like to reiterate, if Dems cared, then they'd have run with Bernie or Warren. Hell, they could have gotten Bernie after Biden stepped down from the election instead of choosing one of the least popular candidates.
They need to get past their arrogance and feeling of immunity, which I think is a huge part of why they don't fight as hard as they should. Most of the Dems either benefit or aren't hurt by REpublicans' bullshit as far as I know
The surest way to make them care is to grab power in the midterm primaries by supporting sanders and other leftist candidates. The democratic weakness is an opening for that.
The surest way to make them care is to grab power in the midterm primaries by supporting sanders and other leftist candidates. The democratic weakness is an opening for that.
If a lot of leftwing candidates win in midterms, that is going to shift power inside the democratic party. And obviously, it also means that republicans cannot do whatever they please anymore.
If you want a different democratic party, you gotta fight for it. Elseways it is just not going to happen. If one thinks it is not going to happen, then talking about the democratic party is not useful all in itself, then the next step would be talking about how to get power from outside the parliament.
If a lot of leftwing candidates win in midterms, that is going to shift power inside the democratic party. And obviously, it also means that republicans cannot do whatever they please anymore.
If you want a different democratic party, you gotta fight for it. Elseways it is just not going to happen. If one thinks it is not going to happen, then talking about the democratic party is not useful all in itself, then the next step would be talking about how to get power from outside the parliament.
Again though, Dems would have to want to throw their support behind the left wing candidates and help them win, especially the Palestinian supporters. For all we know, Dems can actively try to halt the momentum of the candidates if they threaten Dems' wallets somehow.
Having a third party would be a great idea, but I fear that'd just give republicans more chances of winning because right wingers will support republicans, while Dems and the left would be split up.
Again though, Dems would have to want to throw their support behind the left wing candidates and help them win, especially the Palestinian supporters. For all we know, Dems can actively try to halt the momentum of the candidates if they threaten Dems' wallets somehow.
Having a third party would be a great idea, but I fear that'd just give republicans more chances of winning because right wingers will support republicans, while Dems and the left would be split up.
You dismiss this strategy if you want, but the recent election shows this works. Voters switched away from Democrats in the first place because they weren't satisfied with the previous administration's decisions. Why is leaving Democrats out of disappointment possible, but leaving Republicans out of disappointment isn't?
At this rate sure, all Republicans would have to do to break that repetitive pendulum swing back to Dems, is convince Americans that these 4 years were better than Biden's 4 years in 2028. I imagine that's why all the rapid EOs are happening early, so that people will have a whole presidential term to get over the whiplash of all of his radical actions and make it harder for people to remember how bad they fucked up by not choosing Kamala.
Because Republicans winning didn't happen in a vacuum. This wasn't a "Biden sucks so we are voting for Trump" situation. By that thesis Hilary would have likely won because there was no compelling reason to change anything in 2016.
If you look at the factors that have contributed to the Republicans winning all three branches it's due to many grassroots efforts on their part, and also in part due to Elon Musk investing heavily into the election. They have spent decades building up the Heritage Foundation, and created the Tea Party Movement and built a whole army based around misinforming voters in a way to bias them toward voting Republican.
"Liberals fall in love, conservatives fall in line".
It's an age-old aphorism for several concrete reasons in US politics that stretches as far back as the Southern Strategy (and frankly, antiquity if we get granular). Several flashpoints connected since then to make the current Republican death cult possible- a quaint example the 24 hour news cycle being invented 25 years ago certainly brought the jackhammer down on the Fourth Estate, a term that has now lost every crumb of meaning.
Trump is the perfect bookend to Reagan in a lot of big obvious ways, but the singular thing that gets me is that a cult of personality WILL destroy any democratic public good because a massive amount of human beings WANT fascism. They WANT a "strong man" dictator. They simply reject and redefine "american values" the second they put on the color and the symbol and chant the thing. These fucking ghouls want a Christian ethnostate and they don't give a shit how "imperfect of a vessel" their actual Anti-Christ is, as long as they have their way.
Because Republicans winning didn't happen in a vacuum. This wasn't a "Biden sucks so we are voting for Trump" situation. By that thesis Hilary would have likely won because there was no compelling reason to change anything in 2016.
Well I'm specifically talking about the election, not any of the other successful political power grabs they've accomplished. So for the bolded: it really was a Biden sucks so I'm voting for Trump situation. Democrats and independents voting for Trump I mean. No independent or Dem switched over to Trump based on Joe Rogan and Daily Wire alone. It was the "vibe-cession". It was fear about the economy along with a handful of other scary things happening in the world at the time like two wars and stoked cultural flames. Maybe the messaging they pushed about how bad things are because of Democrat decisions, but that just proves my point: Pundits and podcasters signal boosted the idea that it's all Biden's fault.
If you look at the factors that have contributed to the Republicans winning all three branches it's due to many grassroots efforts on their part, and also in part due to Elon Musk investing heavily into the election. They have spent decades building up the Heritage Foundation, and created the Tea Party Movement and built a whole army based around misinforming voters in a way to bias them toward voting Republican.
Except the Independents and Dems that moved over to vote for Trump aren't conservatives: they're disaffected Dems and Independents that wanted change. That's completely antithetical to the term "conservative" and also not a dogged adherence to "falling in line" to defend conservative values.
My whole point is that if it was discontent with the Democrats that moved them to shake things up in the first place, then it'll be discontent that pushes them to abandon their new temporary home as well. They have no ideological (and so far, material or demonstrated beneficial) ties to the Republican party. On the contrary: they've got egg on their faces in the form of... literally everything happening right now that they didn't vote for.
I don't disagree with everything else you said, I just wanna clarify that you and I SUPER aren't talking about the same group of people lol.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Good thing Monster Hunter Wilds is pre-ordered already, or I'd be a scab lol
Democrat establishment won't yield the way and they ultimately don't even have to. And the expectation that they unilaterally should is not reasonable or otherwise based on reality. It's voters through primaries that have to put the current establishment aside. If voters don't change then why would the party?
An hour later, Slim announced that he would transfer his projects for the next 5 years with Starlink, an investment of 22 billion dollars, to companies in China and Europe.
More than money, Musk lost his main partner in 25 countries, in addition to giving up all that territory to companies of his competition and, most seriously, causing the USA to continue losing commercial presence and giving it to China.
