American Politics

[shionoro]

My most interesting takeaway is that vance and his ilk are as clueless as your general Maga is or at least feel the need to pretend that role even among their own. These guy seem to be nothing more but useful idiots and mouthpieces who drink from their own propaganda.

It seems like vance genuinely thinks he is in a leadership role and does not realize he is a puppet to other forces.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 27, 2025, Original Post Date: Mar 27, 2025 ---

This is the state of American rights for noncitizens. They get kidnapped by plainclothed officers just like that. One day you study, the next you are behind bars with no warning:

 

[ninjabot]

I'm African American... but I'm mistaken for Hispanic very, very often because of my light skin tone and less prominent defining African facial features (smaller lips and nose than expected).

I swear I'm gonna get arrested if a motherfucker pulls some shit like this on me, because I'm not about to pull out my identification or recite my social security number or something to a fucking random person to protect my status as a citizen. Instant fisticuffs. No de-escalation. Just repercussions.

...assuming it's not a gang of them that is lmfao.

 

[M3J]

Sounds like tyranny to me. Hence what I've been saying. Get familiar with firearms and hope you don't have to use one. But make sure you can if you have to.

Agreed, but I'm worried about the people who get firearms and not bother to train to use it and for the people who do use it justifiably but get punished anyway.

In the long run, the future is bright for the world. All of American politics now is 100% way too focused on one guy who will be dead in a few years anyway, which means he’s not that important to America long-term. Trump is almost 80 years old, obese, doesn't take care of himself, and is constantly on stimulants. It'll be a miracle if he makes it past 85, and yes, you can quote me on that.

What in the tone-deaf? Trump isn't the main problem, it's what he's doing while he's alive that is! He's currently doing a lot of damage that'll be difficult to undo even with all Dems in power in all three branches! But by the time 2028 rolls by, Republicans could very well have made it infinitely more difficult for Dems to win by putting forth bullshit ways to cheat.

Full link to the Signal text chain obtained by The Atlantic's Chief Editor.

This is really insane. I occasionally go browse the conservative subreddit to see how they are responding to certain events, and it's crazy to me how many call this a "nothing burger" and continue to bring up "Hillary's email server." Heads should be rolling fast for this but who knows if they will given the current crazy climate. Trump spent yesterday trying to claim Waltz just made a simple mistake, but with the full release it should be a good test of his ability to double down. Michael Flynn lasted 23 days. Let's see about Hegseth, Tulsi, Waltz, and Ratclife.

Politics are all about double standards though. I'd be surprised if a lot of them actually cared about Clinton or really cared about how dangerous it is what Trump Admin are doing, as long as they're "helping" the whites.

 

[Franckie]

The only question is, how much damage he’ll inflict before he does and how many years it will take to undo them.

A lot of people aren't keen on the Democratic brand either. There's a reason Trump picked up his biggest support in blue states.

Why do you think this is over when Trump is dead? This is not a Trump powergrab, it is a tech billionaire and a fascist powergrab, supported by different factions that will still be there when Trump is dead.

The longterm consequences will be the worst about it.

I don't identify with either party. Your choice is either an oligarchic Democratic Party or an autocratic Republican Party. Neither party appeals to me.

Complaining about Trump doesn't work when Democrats lost the House, the Senate, the presidency, and the judiciary. Evidently there is something about the Democratic brand that causes swing voters to reel and/or Democratic voters to stay home.

That's not justice though. The idea that he got away with... well... everything.

I don't believe in Hell. I don't believe in an afterlife. I don't think he'll be made to suffer for anything he's done to anyone if we don't seek vindication ourselves. Because Trump is now the blueprint for how to destroy the Western world. No one has taken the steps to say "No, we're not going to put up with this." So the next guy will be emboldened with not just a blueprint, but confidence that no one will dome him if he tries it.

It's not too late to send that message.

Also, undoing what Trump has done most likely requires unraveling a spaghetti ball of intertwined schemes meant to preserve conservative power far into the future. The longer we wait, the more convoluted they make things. I don't have faith it'll be as simple as having a Democrat president use executive orders to wish things back to normal.

He may not make it past 85. I'd prefer he didn't make it past tomorrow.

I agree that Trump is morally revolting, but from the state where I'm from the Democratic Party is the party of betrayal while the Republican Party rewards the lazy rich. Hence, most voters see little distinction between the two parties on pocketbook issues. So they either stay home or figure they're better off on voting on social issues instead.

How is Trump worse than George W. Bush? Bush knowingly lied the country into two armed conflicts that literally got millions killed. He's a bona fide war criminal.

What in the tone-deaf? Trump isn't the main problem, it's what he's doing while he's alive that is! He's currently doing a lot of damage that'll be difficult to undo even with all Dems in power in all three branches! But by the time 2028 rolls by, Republicans could very well have made it infinitely more difficult for Dems to win by putting forth bullshit ways to cheat.

Democrats are doing a fine job causing people to flee the very states they govern. It is literally impossible to get anything done (e.g., building affordable housing) in blue states because Democratic elites like it that way.

 

[shionoro]

I don't identify with either party. Your choice is either an oligarchic Democratic Party or an autocratic Republican Party. Neither party appeals to me.

Complaining about Trump doesn't work when Democrats lost the House, the Senate, the presidency, and the judiciary. Evidently there is something about the Democratic brand that causes swing voters to reel and/or Democratic voters to stay home.

I am not a friend of the democratic party. I also am not a friend of my own countries social democratic party or its conservative party. But that was not what we talked about, we talked about why you think that Trump's death will change the descent into fascism that he pushes for.

I would not doubt for a second that any possible party I could vote for, no matter how corrupt or inept, would be a worse option than my country's nazi party. Because there is a very distinctive difference between an ineffectual corrupt leadership that plays along the established rules of the country and someone who actively wants to destroy the given order by creating an authoritarian ethno state. And that is what Project 2025 is about and will be about even after Trump died and some other fascist puppet took over.

Nothing any democrat, even corrupt idiots like Newsom, would ever have done in office would have come even close to the damage, pain and cruelty Trump and his givers are pushing for (both for the US and the world).

 

[catagon87]

My most interesting takeaway is that vance and his ilk are as clueless as your general Maga is or at least feel the need to pretend that role even among their own. These guy seem to be nothing more but useful idiots and mouthpieces who drink from their own propaganda.

It seems like vance genuinely thinks he is in a leadership role and does not realize he is a puppet to other forces.

Honestly the only good thing I see about the security leak is that it fully confirms these people are all incompetent morons. When someone is actively trying to destroy your country there is always this faint but plausible idea that they may know what they’re doing and actually be a highly competent malicious agent. This signal thread confirms to me that there is zero chance that is the case. They are all just a bunch of morons who have no business running a 711, much less military operations.

I’ve worked in a DOD setting before and the level of scrutiny given to your average person for simply accessing information that’s secret or higher is pretty high. There were a few times I entered the SCIF with my cell phone and I had to self report even though I hadn’t used it and was hardly aware I had it until I exited and didn’t see it in the locker.

When I worked in an IL5 environment I couldn’t do any work unless I was physically in the USA. That included when I went to Canada a few times.

It’s insane to me that we have top level cabinet members using a third party chat application that violates FOIA, and even had members of the chat who were physically in Russia at the time of the conversation. Any other person would already be under arrest for this.

It’s also crazy seeing the responses on twitter claiming that Goldberg committed treason. It’s going to be morbidly interesting seeing this administration simultaneously argue that the texts were mission critical and this should carry penalties for Goldberg for sharing while simultaneously arguing that they aren’t classified and that nobody who was party to the signal chat should be prosecuted or punished in any way.

I think he did the right thing by releasing the chat logs. It will put more pressure on some of the more idiotic cabinet members to resign or be fired.

 

[ninjabot]

I agree that Trump is morally revolting, but from the state where I'm from the Democratic Party is the party of betrayal while the Republican Party rewards the lazy rich. Hence, most voters see little distinction between the two parties on pocketbook issues. So they either stay home or figure they're better off on voting on social issues instead.

Sure. I don't disagree with any of that. My problem is with letting Trump get away with destroying the western world.

How is Trump worse than George W. Bush? Bush knowingly lied the country into two armed conflicts that literally got millions killed. He's a bona fide war criminal.

I never said Trump was worse than Bush, so I don't really know what the point you're trying to make is. It seems like you're asking "why do you have so much more disdain for Trump than you do for Bush", and the simple answer is "Because I didn't pay attention to politics when Bush was president".

 

[M3J]

Democrats are doing a fine job causing people to flee the very states they govern. It is literally impossible to get anything done (e.g., building affordable housing) in blue states because Democratic elites like it that way.

Okay but, Trump and the republicans are still causing immense damage to America and its people, and that damage might not be repaired or fully repaired. Dems try to build some housings and try to help people, but Reps actively oppose anything that could help people. Plus, aren't residents also allowed to vote for stuff like affordable housing? I know a lot of people vote against it because of the kind of people they think it'll bring in, and thus drive their properties' market value down. Dave Chappelle was one of the vocal residents against affordable housing near his area solely because it'd drive down his house's property value.

And Trump and his party are just going to make it even harder to build and get affordable housing.

 

[shionoro]

Honestly the only good thing I see about the security leak is that it fully confirms these people are all incompetent morons. When someone is actively trying to destroy your country there is always this faint but plausible idea that they may know what they’re doing and actually be a highly competent malicious agent. This signal thread confirms to me that there is zero chance that is the case. They are all just a bunch of morons who have no business running a 711, much less military operations.

I’ve worked in a DOD setting before and the level of scrutiny given to your average person for simply accessing information that’s secret or higher is pretty high. There were a few times I entered the SCIF with my cell phone and I had to self report even though I hadn’t used it and was hardly aware I had it until I exited and didn’t see it in the locker.

When I worked in an IL5 environment I couldn’t do any work unless I was physically in the USA. That included when I went to Canada a few times.

It’s insane to me that we have top level cabinet members using a third party chat application that violates FOIA, and even had members of the chat who were physically in Russia at the time of the conversation. Any other person would already be under arrest for this.

It’s also crazy seeing the responses on twitter claiming that Goldberg committed treason. It’s going to be morbidly interesting seeing this administration simultaneously argue that the texts were mission critical and this should carry penalties for Goldberg for sharing while simultaneously arguing that they aren’t classified and that nobody who was party to the signal chat should be prosecuted or punished in any way.

I think he did the right thing by releasing the chat logs. It will put more pressure on some of the more idiotic cabinet members to resign or be fired.

It gives me some hope how incompetent they are. I do not believe all of them are stupid (certainly not the teams that got them elected), but there does not seem to be a lot of proper planning from their part. They are trying to push through project 2025, but they do not seem to be able to accurately judge what consequences their actions might bring.

That is both a weakspot, but it is obviously also really dangerous. There are probably a good chunk of crazy conspiracy theories these people do not only use to control their supporters, but also start believing themselves.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 29, 2025, Original Post Date: Mar 28, 2025 ---

Yale professor who studies fascism fleeing US to work in Canada

Jason Stanley, who says grandmother fled Berlin with his father in 1939, says US may become ‘fascist dictatorship’

www.theguardian.com

Nobody can say the writing isn't on the wall.

A Yale professor who studies fascism is leaving the US to work at a Canadian university because of the current US political climate, which he worries is putting the US at risk of becoming a “fascist dictatorship”.

Jason Stanley, who wrote the 2018 book How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them, has accepted a position at the University of Toronto’s Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy.


Stanley told the Daily Nous, a philosophy profession website, that he made the decision “to raise my kids in a country that is not tilting towards a fascist dictatorship”.

He said in an interview that Columbia University’s recent actions moved him to accept the offer. Last Friday, Columbia gave in to the Trump administration by agreeing to a series of demands in order to restore $400m in federal funding. These changes include crackdowns on protests, increased security power and “internal reviews” of some academic programs, like the Middle Eastern studies department.

“When I saw Columbia completely capitulate, and I saw this vocabulary of, well, we’re going to work behind the scenes because we’re not going to get targeted – that whole way of thinking pre-supposes that some universities will get targeted, and you don’t want to be one of those universities, and that’s just a losing strategy,” he said.

Stanley added: “You’ve got to just band together and say an attack on one university is an attack on all universities. And maybe you lose that fight, but you’re certainly going to lose this one if you give up before you fight.

“Columbia was just such a warning,” he said. “I just became very worried because I didn’t see a strong enough reaction in other universities to side with Columbia. I see Yale trying not to be a target. And as I said, that’s a losing strategy.”

And

What does it say that a scholar of fascism is leaving the US right now? Said Stanley: “Part of it is you’re leaving because ultimately, it is like leaving Germany in 1932, 33, 34. There’s resonance: my grandmother left Berlin with my father in 1939. So it’s a family tradition.”

 

[ninjabot]

So Iran won't have nuclear talks with Trump, but are open to indirect talks. My question is, who the hell is going to mediate or act as a go-between so they can have these talks with Trump?

 

[kkck]

Hmmm, I would guess iran at this point basically has no incentive to negotiate with trump regardless of who mediates. Trump was the one who originally broke the iran deal. Whatever they negotiate would be either a rebranded iran deal OR something that iranians would find so absurd that they won't care for it. Add to that, trump sharing pics of the gaza strip as a shitty casino or threatening to carpet bomb it or simply being the most aggressively pro israel president in US history simply destroys any pretence of good will.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2025, Original Post Date: Apr 2, 2025 ---

Recent events got me thinking about how in trump's 2016 term he attempted to negotiate trade deals with individual EU countries. Now looking at current events... It kinda looks like part of trump's agenda is to gnaw at the EU's fabric.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2025 ---

And... Trump just basically shat on decades of international commerce. Even if he gets what he apparently wants, reciprocal no tariffs with trading partners, that's going to be a pretty dramatic shift in how things operate and it's not going to be all victories for the US. Which will come to bite back at trump.... Oh well, time to get the popcorn out.

 

[shionoro]

Yeah, whoever gave trump that idea has some global agenda and wants to weaken the trade system itself. At the cost of everyone, including the American people.

I do believe tho that there are (as Trump does) lots of flip flops coming in the next few days.

 

[kkck]

I mean, when trump went "anyone who trades with venezuela gets tariffed" I thought that was crazy but it's not necessarily a bad approach to deal with international situations. Imagine if biden or the EU had the bare minimum amount of balls required to do this against countries supporting russia after the ukraine war (mostly china and india). It wouldn't have been a guaranteed win of course but I do think there's a lesson here in how in the past democrats could have leveraged their influence to get positive results.

On the other hand we have to deal with trump's tariff nonsense whose results are bound to be wildly unpredictable and not even necessarily in favor of the US.


Some of the claims seem a bit wild at a glance. IIRC, didn't china put tariffs on US soy back in 2016 due to trump's trade war at the time? I may be mistaken but I think something like this went on back then. Comparing catched shrimp vs farm shrimp? I mean, really? Egypt having 65% import tariffs on products sounds wild and it appears to be true on a quick google search. China absolutely shits on patents and trademarks, though this would work better if EU and US weren't enemies. The main drawback in what is framed here is that the negotiations in regards to free trade have never been from specific industry to specific industry. As in automaker to automaker.... But cross industry, as in US making a concession in autos while japan makes a concession in something else. It's really hard to overstate how much this is the US backtracking on decades of trade agreements.

 

[ninjabot]

And now, perhaps the most heinous thing to come about under Donald Trump's second presidency...

Worse than potentially turning the Gaza strip into a Mar a Lago resort

Worse than giving Ukraine over to Russia

Worse than pardoning the Jan. 6 insurrectionists

The Nintendo Switch 2 pre-order date has been canceled and switched to an undetermined date thanks to Trump's shitty ass tariffs.

 

[shionoro]

I think this is the moment. Democrats should call for an impeachment soon, because this time, they cannot start it themselves. Republicans would have to keep defending Trump and they would definitely not like it, while democrats could play attack.

 

[kkck]

Maybe I am mistaken but as far as I know tanking the world's economy does not add up to an impeachable offense. And democrats couldn't get this done when trump extorted ukraine for dirt on biden (they did impeach him but didn't kick him out of office).

 

[shionoro]

Maybe I am mistaken but as far as I know tanking the world's economy does not add up to an impeachable offense. And democrats couldn't get this done when trump extorted ukraine for dirt on biden (they did impeach him but didn't kick him out of office).

As far as I understand it, it is not limited to criminal charges but general abuses of power and violations of public trust. Trump definitely committed more than enough of that in this term to put forward an impeachment process (for example the DOGE stuff). If Republicans wanted to, they'd just have to agree and nobody could stop it. Republicans probably will not do it unless Trump actually moves to annex Canada or s th really drastic, but that means they will have to defend Trump from whatever the Democrats accuse him off (and if Democrats are smart, they accuse him of something really unpopular).

This obviously becomes much easier when they get the house back. For Republicans, the question woud be then whether they couldnt save some of their reputation by impeachment before the sinking ship takes them with it. It did not work before, but Trump was not that crazy before. I doubt most Republicans like what he does right now.

 

[kkck]

As far as I understand it, it is not limited to criminal charges but general abuses of power and violations of public trust. Trump definitely committed more than enough of that in this term to put forward an impeachment process (for example the DOGE stuff). If Republicans wanted to, they'd just have to agree and nobody could stop it. Republicans probably will not do it unless Trump actually moves to annex Canada or s th really drastic, but that means they will have to defend Trump from whatever the Democrats accuse him off (and if Democrats are smart, they accuse him of something really unpopular).

This obviously becomes much easier when they get the house back. For Republicans, the question woud be then whether they couldnt save some of their reputation by impeachment before the sinking ship takes them with it. It did not work before, but Trump was not that crazy before. I doubt most Republicans like what he does right now.

As far as I could google:


Impeachable offenses for a President of the United States are outlined in Article II, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution, which states:

“The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”

What trump is doing does not qualify as any of those.

Also, suppose something like this went through.... The result would be JD Vance as president. So why tf even bother? Add to that, republican voters love this. Maybe not for long but right now they are all in.

 

[shionoro]

As far as I could google:


Impeachable offenses for a President of the United States are outlined in Article II, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution, which states:

“The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”

What trump is doing does not qualify as any of those.

Also, suppose something like this went through.... The result would be JD Vance as president. So why tf even bother? Add to that, republican voters love this. Maybe not for long but right now they are all in.

What counts as high crimes and misdemeanor is vaguely defined at best.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S4-2-1/ALDE_00000690/

The Constitution provides that the grounds of impeachment are for treason, bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. While the types of conduct constituting treason and bribery are relatively well-understood terms,1 the meaning of high Crimes and Misdemeanors is not defined in the Constitution or in statute.2 The basic framework for impeachment was inherited from English practice by the colonies in their adoption of state constitutions.3 Both experiences informed the adoption of impeachment provisions in the federal Constitution.

The common method for interpreting the Constitution’s impeachment provisions stands in some contrast to that of other constitutional provisions. Whereas judicial precedent drives the prevailing understanding of many provisions of the Constitution, impeachment is essentially a political process that is largely unreviewable by the Judicial Branch.4 As such, the historical practice of impeachment proceedings, rather than judicial decisions, informs our understanding of the Constitution’s meaning in this area. In this vein, the meaning of high crimes and misdemeanors is informed not by judicial decisions, but by the history of congressional impeachments.5

What counts as a high crime or misdemeanor is decided by the senate and the senate only.


Article I, Section 2, Clause 5 of the United States Constitution provides:
The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.


Article I, Section 3, Clauses 6 and 7 provide:
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present.


There is nobody else, not even the surpreme court, that could step in. Because the constitution makes it clear that only the House and the Senate decide these cases, both the accusation and the trial. If the Senate decides that the case brought forward by the House is actually an impeachable offense, then it is. That is legally binding. If it is used just like that, the political fallout would be massive. But if it is something that most Americans agree should be impeachable, that should be fine.

In Theory, if both House and Senate agree, they could impeach Trump for being too fat for office.

Trump being impeached for something extremely unpopular would not be a problem.

 

[kkck]

What counts as high crimes and misdemeanor is vaguely defined at best.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S4-2-1/ALDE_00000690/

What counts as a high crime or misdemeanor is decided by the senate and the senate only.


Article I, Section 2, Clause 5 of the United States Constitution provides:
The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.


Article I, Section 3, Clauses 6 and 7 provide:
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present.


There is nobody else, not even the surpreme court, that could step in. Because the constitution makes it clear that only the House and the Senate decide these cases, both the accusation and the trial. If the Senate decides that the case brought forward by the House is actually an impeachable offense, then it is. That is legally binding. If it is used just like that, the political fallout would be massive. But if it is something that most Americans agree should be impeachable, that should be fine.

In Theory, if both House and Senate agree, they could impeach Trump for being too fat for office.

Trump being impeached for something extremely unpopular would not be a problem.

I mean, if you take a wishful thinking approach to law while simultaneously ignoring the past 9 years then sure, this is pretty sound reasoning. Republicans are what they are, democrats are craven, unprincipled hacks. Even if this miraculous impeachment process got carried through to the end it would take months anyways, more than enough for the damage to be already be long materialized. And even then, after threading the political needle god knows how many consecutive times the only thing the world would end up with is JD fucking vance. Along with the downside of turning trump into a martyr for lunatics (not that he isn't already but this would only make it worse).