Discussion Ancient Spell

[BluePegasus]

As all of you know, Ancient Spell is Magic from ancient times.

Up to now we've seen four kinds of Ancient Spells:

1). Lost Magic
Lost Magic is a type of Magic that has been obliterated from the history of the world due to their immense power and the sheer gravity of their side effects on the users. (source: http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Magic)

There are different types of Lost Magic. This are the types of Lost Magic we know about so far:

A). Dragon Slayer Magic
Dragon Slayer Magic is a type of Lost Magic which allows its users to transform their physical bodies into a Dragon. As a result, the user can transform their body with features of their respective element, utilizing both offensive and defensive styles. (source: http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Slayer_Magic)

Types: Fire Dragon Slayer Magic, Iron Dragon Slayer Magic, Sky Dragon Slayer Magic, Lightning Dragon Slayer Magic, Poison Dragon Slayer Magic, Light Dragon Slayer Magic, Shadow Dragon Slayer Magic, Eight Dragon Lacrimas.

Users: Natsu, Gajeel, Wendy, Laxus, Cobra, Sting, Rogue, God Serena.

B). God Slayer Magic
God Slayer Magic is a form of Ancient Spell in which the caster is able to attain the abilities of a "God", using a specific element as their type. The certain elemental type of God Slayer Magic can be conjured from the caster's body and be used for various purposes, mainly in combat. (source: http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/God_Slayer_Magic)

Types: Flame God Slayer Magic, Sky God Slayer Magic, Lightning God Slayer Magic.

Users: Zancrow, Chelia, Orga.
Since Zancrow is deceased and Chelia lost her magic, Orga is the only active God Slayer.

C). The magic from the Seven Kin of Purgatory
Aside from these two types of Slayer Magic, there are some other shown types of Lost Magic. The strongest team in the Guild Grimoire Heart, the Seven Kin of Purgatory, have thought Lost Magic from Hades.

Types:

Arc of Time,

Spoiler

Arc of Trees,

Spoiler

Arc of Embodiment,

Spoiler

Maguilty Sense, Human Subordination, Ushi No Koku Mairi.

Users: Ultear, Azuma, Rustyrose, Meredy, Zoldeo, Kain.​

2). Nirvana
Nirvana is a legendary Magical item which has the power to turn light to darkness and vice-versa. (source: http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Nirvana)

Spoiler

3). Memory-Make
Memory-Make grants the caster the ability to manipulate memories. This Magic also allows the user to create new Magic spells by combining spells from other Magic which the user has memorized before. Furthermore, the user is able to negate Magic spells used by the opponent which the user also had already memorized by forgetting the spell. (source: http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Memory-Make)

Spoiler

User: Rufus.

4). Black Arts
The Black Arts are forms of forbidden Magic that have the capacity to manipulate life. (source: http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Arts)

Up to now, there isn't a lot known about Black Arts.

User: Zeref.

Well, this is everything we know about Ancient Spells. I made this thread so we could discuss about this topic, since I'm pretty interested in all types of Magic in the Fairy Tail universe.

Some questions for this thread:

How do you think about Ancient Spell? Do you think it's really powerful or that it doesn't differ a lot from normal Magic?

Which type of Ancient Spell do you like the most? Lost Magic, Nirvana, Memory-Make or Black Arts?

Do you think Lost Magic is underestimated?

Do you think Memory-Make is underestimated?

Which Lost Magic do you like the most? Why?

 

[Ebony Maw]

1) Depends on the magic but I think that on average Ancient Magic is more powerful, with the few exceptions including Heavenly Body Magic, Reflector and some of the Spriggans magic (assuming they don't wield Ancient Magic).
2) I'm guessing we're supposed to chose a category here (e.g Dragon Slayer, God Slayer) so my answer is God Slayer Magic because of the colour scheme (especially black lightning) and the fact that they can eat Dragon Slayer Magic.
3) It depends, I feel that Dragon Slayer Magic can actually be overrated sometimes but most of the time I feel it's held in the right regard.
4) It's tough to say if Memory-Make Magic is underestimated because while we know the mechanics of it and know that it should be quite hax, it doesn't really have many feats due to the low exposure of Rufus. I think I'm going to wait until the end of this arc before making my mind up on this but for now I'll say that if it is underestimated it's due to it's limited appearance and suffers from PIS/CIS/WIS like Rustyrose's Arc of Embodiment Magic.
5) My favourite Ancient Magic is Light Dragon Slayer Magic (surprising, right? ), I just love the art of the spells, I'm still angry that we never saw the DC of Holy Nova but hopefully we'll see that in the next few chapters. I also love the Dragon Force of Light Dragon Slayer Magic, best one yet IMO. Following shortly in second place is Shadow Dragon Slayer Magic, another shocker right?

Great thread BP.

 

[BluePegasus]

My own answers:

How do you think about Ancient Spell? Do you think it's really powerful or that it doesn't differ a lot from normal Magic?

I do think it's stronger than the most average types of magic. But I do think there are some types of magic that will surpass it (like Heavenly Body Magic, Territory, God War Magic, Reflector and magic from Spriggans and Wizard Saints).

Which type of Ancient Spell do you like the most? Lost Magic, Nirvana, Memory-Make or Black Arts?

Lost Magic.

Do you think Lost Magic is underestimated?

I think God Slayer Magic and the magic from the Seven Kin is underestimated. Dragon Slayer Magic is overrated imo.

Do you think Memory-Make is underestimated?

Yes, a lot.

Which Lost Magic do you like the most? Why?

Arc of Embodiment. It's really overpowered. I'd like to possess it.

 

[Axiomus]

1) No. Different types of magic are more powerful than other types. Some ancient spells are more powerful than modern magic. Some modern magic is more powerful than ancient spells. I don't believe just because a magic is lost magic or ancient spell that it automatically makes them more powerful than normal magic. Vice versa.
2) I think Law is neat.
3) No. See point 1.
4) No. It lacks the raw power associated with top tiers, and other spells can do what it sets out to do better. Arc of Embodiment outclasses it in its ability to create stuff due to not being restricted by memory. Yuka's or Obra's magic cancellation outclasses it's ability to cancel out their opponents magic. Maybe in the hands of a Spriggan it would be more formidable, but then again so would any magic.
5) Repeat of point 2.

War God Magic is ancient spell.

The only overestimation of dragon slayers would be towards the weaker dragon slayers. Otherwise, Dragon Slayers generally occupy the top tiers within this series. Acnologia is the strongest mage in the series. God Serena was the strongest mage of Ishgar and the Spriggan with the most impressive victories under his belt. Laxus and Natsu are in the top of Ishgar's side now that Serena has defected.

 

[Arjuna]

I don't think Memory make magic is lost magic(was it ever stated likewise).Lost Magic is something which has been lost for centuries and obliterated because it was very dangerous.As the Dragons became extinct Dragon Slayer magic too became extinct one of the strongest magic.It may happen that few traces of it remain and if it is used in the modern era then it is called "Lost Magic".
By the way great thread BP.

 

[Axiomus]

I don't think Memory make magic is lost magic(was it ever stated likewise).Lost Magic is something which has been lost for centuries and obliterated because it was very dangerous.As the Dragons became extinct Dragon Slayer magic too became extinct one of the strongest magic.It may happen that few traces of it remain and if it is used in the modern era then it is called "Lost Magic".
By the way great thread BP.

It's not lost magic, it's an ancient spell. Ancient Spells are magic from ancient times, so 400 years ago. Lost Magic are ancient spells that fallen out of practice throughout time.

 

[BluePegasus]

War God Magic is ancient spell.

No, it's never stated that it's an Ancient Spell. It's Yakuma Eighteen God War Magic, these are different types of magic as well (Yagdo Rigora, Ikasutsunagi).

I don't think Memory make magic is lost magic(was it ever stated likewise).Lost Magic is something which has been lost for centuries and obliterated because it was very dangerous.As the Dragons became extinct Dragon Slayer magic too became extinct one of the strongest magic.It may happen that few traces of it remain and if it is used in the modern era then it is called "Lost Magic".
By the way great thread BP.

Memory-Make is a type of Ancient Spell, just like Lost Magic is a type of Ancient Spell. This was stated by Mavis when Rufus used his magic against Eve during the Grand Magic Games.

And thanks ^^

 

[Arjuna]

No, it's never stated that it's an Ancient Spell. It's Yakuma Eighteen God War Magic, these are different types of magic as well (Yagdo Rigora, Ikasutsunagi).



Memory-Make is a type of Ancient Spell, just like Lost Magic is a type of Ancient Spell. This was stated by Mavis when Rufus used his magic against Eve during the Grand Magic Games.

And thanks ^^

It is said that Yakuma War Clan got extinct and this War God Spells are their creations.We really don't know if they are ancient as we don't know when the Yakuma War Clan lived.

 

[Axiomus]

No, it's never stated that it's an Ancient Spell. It's Yakuma Eighteen God War Magic, these are different types of magic as well (Yagdo Rigora, Ikasutsunagi).

MInerva used Yakuma 18 war god magic, which was said to be an ancient spell. Ikusa-Tsunagi was also a Yakuma 18 War God. Only difference being Minerva only materialized her war god for a single attack, whereas Arlock materialized his for a long time.

 

[BluePegasus]

MInerva used Yakuma 18 war god magic, which was said to be an ancient spell. Ikusa-Tsunagi was also a Yakuma 18 War God. Only difference being Minerva only materialized her war god for a single attack, whereas Arlock materialized his for a long time.

When is this stated? It has never.

 

[Axiomus]

When is this stated? It has never.

I double checked, and you're right. Yakuma War God magic has never been stated to be an ancient spell.

 

[Arjuna]

@BluePegasus You should add Celestial Spirit Magic as ancient spell and lost magic as only two persons now use it.

 

[BluePegasus]

@BluePegasus You should add Celestial Spirit Magic as ancient spell and lost magic as only two persons now use it.

I don't believe it's ever stated in the manga that Celestial Spirit Magic is an Ancient Spell.

Do you mean the users of the Seven Kin of Purgatory? Because there are lot of Dragon Slayers atm and Dragon Slayer Magic is a type of Lost Magic as well. But yeah, I should add that some of the Seven Kin have been deceased.

 

[Arjuna]

I don't believe it's ever stated in the manga that Celestial Spirit Magic is an Ancient Spell.

Do you mean the users of the Seven Kin of Purgatory? Because there are lot of Dragon Slayers atm and Dragon Slayer Magic is a type of Lost Magic as well. But yeah, I should add that some of the Seven Kin have been deceased.

You know CS Magic is ancient from the times of Anna and Zeref 400 Years ago.We can also consider it Lost Magic because now only Lucy and Yukino use it.And in GH apart from Bluenote every one used Lost Magic.

 

[Kiki]

Great thread

Ancient Spell (エンシェントスペル/Enshento Superu) or Kodai Mahou (古代魔法) is magic or spell that was found a long time ago. Some of them are forbidden because they are considered dangerous, some of them are lost because the original casters are extinct. Ancient spell is very very rare.

How do you think about Ancient Spell? Do you think it's really powerful or that it doesn't differ a lot from normal Magic?
I must admit "Ancient Spell" title is a creative idea. It has its own charm. As for powerful or not, it depends on a caster's MP and its effectiveness against other magic.

Which type of Ancient Spell do you like the most? Lost Magic, Nirvana, Memory-Make or Black Arts?
Lost Magic

Do you think Lost Magic is underestimated?
I don't think so. People like Lost Magic instead. They like DS magic, GS magic, etc so I don't think Lost Magic is underestimated.

Do you think Memory-Make is underestimated?
I am not sure of this. Again, it depends on the caster's MP and his/her ability to memorize a spell. Back in GMG arc, Rufus was defeated by Gray after Gray used Ice Make with very fast pace. So I think it's Rufus' weakness.

Which Lost Magic do you like the most? Why?
I like Arc of Time the most. Personal opinion: Mostly because I like something related to time. In our world, time is a thing that cannot be fast-forwarded or rewinded, except you have extreme high speed or a time machine (I heard that if someone/something has extreme high speed, he/she/it can travel time). In FT world, Ultear can fast-forward and rewind insentient things like tree, building, and so on. I still remember her destroying Era back in Tower of Heaven arc. The scene was epic imo. Just imagine if you have such magic. I wish I have and can cast Arc of Time lol

The panic, the building that is aging, the alarm sound, the white magic circle, the angel statue, the upturned hands

Spoiler

Thought on its potential: Arc of Time is quite hax imo. Also, one of its spells, Last Age, is able to rewind the entire universe's time. Incredible.

 

[BluePegasus]

I was wondering why God Slayer Magic has always been underestimated and seen as the weakest type of Slayer Magic. In my opinion, it's just the other way around.

I've always seen God Slayer Magic as a more skilled and powerful type than Dragon Slayer Magic. To me this seems pretty obvious. If we compare the current God Slayers with the Dragon Slayers who uses the same element type, I can pretty much conclude which magic type is superior:

1). Tenrou Zancrow and Tenrou Natsu
It was literally shown in the manga that Zancrow was superior to Natsu in the Tenrou Island arc. Zancrow was able to eat every spell that Natsu fired at him. From that point on it became pretty clear that Fire God Slayer Magic > Fire Dragon Slayer Magic. Now don't get me wrong, Current Natsu is without a doubt superior to Tenrou Zancrow. But if Zancrow would've trained the same amount as Natsu, his magic power would still be superior to him.

2). GMG Chelia and GMG Wendy
Now I don't think this is difficult to conclude. During their battle at the Grand Magic Games, it was pretty much shown that Chelia had the upper hand even though their fight ended up in a draw. Not to forget that Chelia's skills were a lot more impressive than Wendy's skills. Chelia is able to heal herself, while Wendy can only heal others. I think we can all agree that Sky God Slayer Magic > Sky Dragon Slayer Magic.

3). GMG Orga and GMG Laxus
Now let's be real here, does it truly mean that Laxus was superior to Orga in the Grand Magic Games just because he wasn't oneshotted by the same attack that oneshotted Orga? That only showed that Orga's durability is lower than Laxus' durability, not that Laxus would oneshot Orga as well. Exactly which spell from GMG Laxus was superior to any of GMG Orga's spells? Which spell from GMG Laxus had a lower cast time than the spell that Orga used on the first days of the Grand Magic Games. Since we're talking about magic power and not feats, I'd say that Lightning God Slayer Magic > Lightning Dragon Slayer Magic. Keep in mind that I'm talking about the Grand Magic Games here. We haven't seen Orga in the current arc at all, so I can't compare their current magic power.

 

[Brandish μ]

We saw Orga he was crucified and Laxus he beat a Spriggan

Wendy/Natsu were just weaker than Sherria/Zancrow at the time, that is all.

I think DS > others is the most likely, especially with the added advantage of dragon force. That is where DS magic blows others out of the water. I'd still say DS magic is still better than the other slayer types even without DF.

DS magic users do have the weakness of motion sickness but they make up for it with heightened sense.

 

[Axiomus]

Dragon Slayers are stronger than God Slayers because dragons are stronger than gods. Natsu was able to defeat a god of war with demolition fist. It takes Acnologia an arm to slay Igneel. Dragon Slayers also have Dragon Force, which gives them the physical properties of a dragon. This gives dragon slayers an overwhelming advantage in strength, speed, and durabilityr. God Slayers only have 1 advantage over dragon slayers, and that is that they can eat a dragon slayer's elements without having their own elements easily eaten. This advantage completely disappears if we pit a dragon slayer and a god slayer of different elements, or if the dragon slayer has more than one element. Zancrow would have absolutely no advantage against Gajeel, for example. Also, Zancrow's advantage over Natsu would be reduced by LFD.

There is no evidence that Zancrow would have become as strong as Natsu with the same amount of training. It's not like it takes current Natsu to beat Zancrow. Natsu surpassed Zancrow by the GMG arc with the unlocking of second origin and LFD. Chelia was indeed stronger than Wendy, but that was because Chelia had a superior reserve of magical power and could self heal. This was prior to Wendy receiving Dragon Force during Tartarus. Current Wendy would have been solidly ahead of current Chelia, prior to Chelia receiving third origin. All of Laxus' feats beat out Orga's. All of them. Orga's best feat was oneshotting a fodder from Quatro Ceberus, which was the weakest guild participating in the GMG. Laxus had better feats even before the GMG arc. He train wrecked Natsu + Gajeel during the Harvest Festival. He did more against Hades than the entirety of team Natsu, and it was his magical power that let Natsu perform as well as he did with Hades. Remember how LFD roar cleaved a path along the side of Tenrou? Most of that power was Laxus'. Now during the GMG, Roaring Thunder was the spell that took out Jura.

Lastly, dragon slayers produces stronger mages. Acnologia, Laxus, God Serena, and even Igneel-powered Natsu are all dragon slayers. The strongest God Slayer is in the series Chelia with her 3rd origin, which everyone I just mentioned can solidly beat. Keep in mind that when we're talking about Chelia, we're talking about the absolute limits of God Slaying magic can do for Chelia. 3rd Origin gives Chelia all the magical power she would ever have in her entire life-time. Dragon Slayers have Acnologia, and Acnologia can arguably even solo every god and god slayer shown in this series. Finally, dragons themselves were the original dragon slayers. Before the humans had it, it was what the dragons used to kill each other.

Spoiler: Dragon Slaying Magic was meant for dragons to kill each other

 

[Linali]

I can agree with Natsu/Zancrow and Wendy/Chelia, but I don't think you have basis to compare Orga and Laxus, mainly because we haven't seen their fight. They just started and then Jura interupted. As for fire and wind pairs you have strong arguments, sorry, but for lighting you have nothing, because both Orga and Laxus didn't even have worthy opponent during GMG, so we didn't saw what they're fully capable of. To be honest we didn't saw even Jura vs Laxus, something I still can't forgive Mashima. Laxus is quite well known for us, but Orga showed 2 spells - it's too less to compare imho.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Zancrow fodderized Natsu but Hiro ass pulled something so that he can win. Chelia should have done the same against Wendy but she didn't for unknown reason. Laxus vs Orga is hard to judge. Orga should basically be immune to Laxus' lightning and he can eat it.