Discussion Are Supernova crews stronger than Strawhats?

[EddyBob15]

I've been thinking about this for some time, and it's still bugging me. Moriah said that Luffy wasn't ready for the New World. Heck, Luffy even agreed to additional training before entering the New World. However, the other Supernovas (excluding Law) entered the New World back then and they've been doing fine. Does that mean that the other Supernova crews were stronger than the Straw Hats?

 

[llaubacher]

Re: Something's Been Eating At Me For A While

I would not say so ... I bet all of them have new scars. Look at Kid's arm, it is gone. Killer seemed to have more scars, I think Hawkins had one too. I do not remember the others, but I will bet they have something brand new decorating their bodies. Or you know, they could get right under the protection of Yonkous, so far it was Drake who went straight for Kaido's attention as if he wanted to clash with him. They must have had losses in their crews, nonamed fodders though, whereas Luffy wanted to prevent this from happening, prevent his crew from suffering such things as on Sabaody.

 

[catagon87]

Re: Something's Been Eating At Me For A While

I've been thinking about this for some time, and it's still bugging me. Moriah said that Luffy wasn't ready for the New World. Heck, Luffy even agreed to additional training before entering the New World. However, the other Supernovas (excluding Law) entered the New World back then and they've been doing fine. Does that mean that the other Supernova crews were stronger than the Straw Hats?

IIRC a few of them were depicted having some serious issues. Capone sucked into a random ship in the sky, Bonney captured by Blackbeard, the Urouge crew on the lightning island didn't look pretty either..

All we saw of Hawkins was him screwing around with Brownbeard.
Kidd went straight to the New World.

It looks like Drake and Law both decided to stick around.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out Kidd was stronger than Luffy before the time skip. The rivalry between the supernovas wouldn't mean much if Luffy was just definitively stronger than them all. We'd just have a boring manga then. We're talking of an era where Luffy was beaten by Smoker, couldn't touch Sentoumaru, and barely survived an encounter with a single Pacifista vs. his whole crew.

 

[goldb]

Global Moderator Notice:
thread title changed to better reflect the ongoing discussion ~ goldb

 

[RedBerserk]

Luffy agreed with Rayleigh about the 2 years training because he was affected by Ace's death, to put it simply he didn't want to lose another important person in his life (his crew-mates)... the fight with Kizaru and Kuma definitely left a mark too and considering how much he struggled during the war, he realized the difference in power between the Strawhats and the top.
The other Supernovas just had a brief encounter with Kizaru and a pacifista, they didn't see their crews tore apart, so they were probably still confident in their strength.

IMO the Supernovas crews were rather "weak", the only threat for the Strawhats were the captains (with Killer being the exception) and i think Luffy would have owned pretty much every one of them 1 on 1, if you add Zoro and Sanji to the fight (after defeating the Supernovas useless crew-mates) it's just overkill... i guess Law would have been the only challenge because of his hax ability and maybe Apoo with his weird powers.

 

[XXGenesis]

Re: Something's Been Eating At Me For A While

I would not say so ... I bet all of them have new scars. Look at Kid's arm, it is gone. Killer seemed to have more scars, I think Hawkins had one too. I do not remember the others, but I will bet they have something brand new decorating their bodies. Or you know, they could get right under the protection of Yonkous, so far it was Drake who went straight for Kaido's attention as if he wanted to clash with him. They must have had losses in their crews, nonamed fodders though, whereas Luffy wanted to prevent this from happening, prevent his crew from suffering such things as on Sabaody.

This

Law & his crew still seem to be a challenge for Luffy & Zoro
& The others seem pretty bad ass, and they are forming alliances just like. Luffy&Traf

 

[Impossibility]

I think the difference is the SHs simply wished to avoid the struggles the other Supernovae dealt with. The others seem to have fought to establish themselves in the NW over the course of two years; there were undoubtedly moments where they were simply out of their depth...and they likely were forced to pay for those instances. The SHs have shown up and within a few days are already on their way to making their mark. And the reality is that the circumstances that lead to the decision make Luffy's decision completely justifiable. It should be said that even prior to the timeskip, however, the SHs as a crew were likely significantly superior to most of the other Supernovae. The manga has effectively labelled only Kidd and Law as Luffy's equals.

 

[EddyBob15]

I think the difference is the SHs simply wished to avoid the struggles the other Supernovae dealt with. The others seem to have fought to establish themselves in the NW over the course of two years; there were undoubtedly moments where they were simply out of their depth...and they likely were forced to pay for those instances. The SHs have shown up and within a few days are already on their way to making their mark. And the reality is that the circumstances that lead to the decision make Luffy's decision completely justifiable. It should be said that even prior to the timeskip, however, the SHs as a crew were likely significantly superior to most of the other Supernovae. The manga has effectively labelled only Kidd and Law as Luffy's equals.

You make it sound like sooner or later, the other Supernovas will regret not preparing for the New World like the Straw Hats.

 

[Fox666]

I think the Supernovas crews are being underestimated. I believe in general they around the Strawhats strength, as seen in the battle against Kizaru and multiple Pacifistas. Kid Pirates are probably stronger than the Firetank Pirates, but I am talking in a general sense.

 

[Impossibility]

I think the Supernovas crews are being underestimated. I believe in general they around the Strawhats strength, as seen in the battle against Kizaru and multiple Pacifistas. Kid Pirates are probably stronger than the Firetank Pirates, but I am talking in a general sense.

I find it difficult to believe that they were around the same general strength. I seriously doubt the Firetank, Fallen Monk, or Bonney Pirates could hold a candle to the SHs.

You make it sound like sooner or later, the other Supernovas will regret not preparing for the New World like the Straw Hats.

No, it's a bit of the opposite. I believe that some have already paid the price. After two years, they're obviously NW contenders. However, they probably had to handle quite a bit to get there. For example, Kidd seems to have picked up a few scars and lost an arm.

 

[EddyBob15]

No, it's a bit of the opposite. I believe that some have already paid the price. After two years, they're obviously NW contenders. However, they probably had to handle quite a bit to get there. For example, Kidd seems to have picked up a few scars and lost an arm.

Still, Oda doesn't just do anything without a purpose. There has to be a deeper meaning as to why he had the other Supernovas enter the New World ahead of the Straw Hats.

 

[Impossibility]

Still, Oda doesn't just do anything without a purpose. There has to be a deeper meaning as to why he had the other Supernovas enter the New World ahead of the Straw Hats.

Because it was the default choice. The decisions the SHs made was a rare one. Of the Supernovae, only the Heart Pirates made the same decision to stick around in Paradise for any actual time after the incident in Sabaody. If it wasn't for Kuma's actions, the SHs would've likely continued on into the NW immediately; they were effectively forced to delay their journey....and with Luffy's experience in the war, he realised that it should happen when they were truly ready to take on the NW.

 

[Razh]

Re: Something's Been Eating At Me For A While

I would not say so ... I bet all of them have new scars. Look at Kid's arm, it is gone. Killer seemed to have more scars, I think Hawkins had one too. I do not remember the others, but I will bet they have something brand new decorating their bodies. Or you know, they could get right under the protection of Yonkous, so far it was Drake who went straight for Kaido's attention as if he wanted to clash with him. They must have had losses in their crews, nonamed fodders though, whereas Luffy wanted to prevent this from happening, prevent his crew from suffering such things as on Sabaody.

Drake could have just as likely wanted to join Kaido.

Caribou's cover story pretty much confirms it.

 

[kkck]

I don't think that is the case. The issue here is the level of priority the strawhats would have faced upon entering their new world. The strawhats were simply too infamous. As they were they would have been a prime target to the marines and potential strong pirates. The supernova were infamous enough but nowhere near the strawhats. The strawhats would potentially enter the new world and instantly become targets to a number of people whose power would be great by today's standards. Heck, had they decided to just proceed as they were they would have probably faced a VA at least right of the bat if not a shichibukai or an admiral, any of which would have probably outright annihilated the crew singlehandedly.

Overall the strawhats would have actually been the strongest of the supernova. They were the only crew with two people over 100 mil and certainly the only crew whose every member had a bounty and with so many DF users.

The supernova had the benefit of cruising over to the new world as the rookies they were, they were dangerous but nowhere near as notorious as the strawhats or other crews at the NW. So by waiting 2 years some of the focus on them blew over and they got the level where they would survive a full scale attack from the marines. Take the actual manga events, the marines deployed sentoumaru (who would probably wipe the floor with the early strawhats or a pacifista), a number of battleships and multiple pacifista and the strawhats were not even concerned with them. The strawhats are not the sort of crew the marines can just take by sending a couple of strong people. Sending a lone admiral to deal with them would get the admiral killed (provided the strawhats gang up on him) and the strongest of the VA is probably a match or only slightly above luffy. The marines can't deal with the strawhats without diverting resources from more important matters or without risking their finest getting injured. While in turn the other supernova would have entered the NW as rookies and cruise around as such. The strawhats would have entered the NW only marginally stronger than the other crews but in turn get treated like they actually were world class pirates.

 

[EddyBob15]

Overall the strawhats would have actually been the strongest of the supernova. They were the only crew with two people over 100 mil and certainly the only crew whose every member had a bounty and with so many DF users.

Uh, you seem to forget that the Kidd Pirates had two Supernovas in their crew as well: Kidd and Killer. Does that refresh your memory?

---------- Post added at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

While in turn the other supernova would have entered the NW as rookies and cruise around as such. The strawhats would have entered the NW only marginally stronger than the other crews but in turn get treated like they actually were world class pirates.

So, in other words, you're saying that the Straw Hats are at the same level the other Supernovas gained in the New World, though that does leave the question as to who is superior: those who gain experience in the field, or those who gain experience preparing for the field.

 

[kkck]

Uh, you seem to forget that the Kidd Pirates had two Supernovas in their crew as well: Kidd and Killer. Does that refresh your memory?

---------- Post added at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------


So, in other words, you're saying that the Straw Hats are at the same level the other Supernovas gained in the New World, though that does leave the question as to who is superior: those who gain experience in the field, or those who gain experience preparing for the field.

Ahh true. But even then, my point stands that the strawhats are the only crew whose every member has a bounty.

I would say the strawhats are the stronger ones at the moment. Sure, the supernova were on the field but what the strawhats subjected themselves is by no means inferior. Luffy trained with rayleigh in one of the most dangerous locations in the NW. According to rayleigh there were animals there against whom luffy at the time would not have a chance against. Zoro trained with freaking mihawk. Sanji ran for his life the entire time. Franky and nami need more knowledge than they need fighting experience. Ussop trained in an insanely dangerous location. Not sure about the details of brook, chopper and robin but right now they seem more than qualified.

 

[EddyBob15]

Luffy trained with rayleigh in one of the most dangerous locations in the NW.

You mean Paradise. They weren't in the New World yet.

 

[hokageji]

Technically speaking, its not paradise. Its an island on the calm belt...

 

[asd]

Drake could have just as likely wanted to join Kaido.

I still think that Drake's Main objective is to kill DD.

Before Timeskip I would have said that Law, Kidd, Hawkins and Apoo were stronger than SH.

After Timeskip it's hard to tell.

Luffy wouldn't be able to defend against Apoo for example unless he becomes deaf or something like that.
Hawkins can pretty much create 10000 vodoo dolls and exhaust his opponents, without taking damage.

 

[EddyBob15]

Technically speaking, its not paradise. Its an island on the calm belt...

My mistake. Thanks for correcting.