Quarterfinal August vs God Serena

[Enima]

I have a serious question. Why would anyone want to downplay August to begin with? I mean, there are many explanations and motives as to why he would be overestimated and his portrayal taken to its utmost extent in the strongest possible light, but what's not clear to me are the factors that would push one to minimize and deflate his supposed capabilities given the lack of showings...

It's uncertain if he can copy the dragon-slaying properties of God Serena's spells, but it seemed to me that August was the one who effortlessly cancelled God Serena's wind attack that was about to be unleashed on the Gods of Ishgar. Plus he mentioned something along the lines of getting to see again what God Serena is capable of, implying that he has seen the magic before

Cancel God serena's magic? when did that happen?

Anyway, God Serena's probably my most favourite character in the series and if this fight was with any other mage I would've argued relentlessly to make God S win, but this is ridiculous. There are three things in a battle that decide victory: MP, Physical ability and spells. August is pretty much the best in all three of this except in MP where he loses to Acno. God S is probably high tier (Laxus tier), but he's nowhere near August. IMO August takes this mid diff. That said I'm still voting for God Serena because you never know, God S might win by accident.

 

[inactive lurker account]

Cancel God serena's magic? when did that happen?

Anyway, God Serena's probably my most favourite character in the series and if this fight was with any other mage I would've argued relentlessly to make God S win, but this is ridiculous. There are three things in a battle that decide victory: MP, Physical ability and spells. August is pretty much the best in all three of this except in MP where he loses to Acno. God S is probably high tier (Laxus tier), but he's nowhere near August. IMO August takes this mid diff. That said I'm still voting for God Serena because you never know, God S might win by accident.

I like God Serena as well, actually I find the character quirks of the eastern team to be interesting, to say the least, if only those quirks did not lead to their undoing in some way. Too bad we never got to see what exactly they did to Bosco, or if they really brought a million other troops...

Anyway, I was referring to chapter 470, right when God Serena was about to unleash his fourth element, August from a distance tells God Serena to stop, while God Serena could only muster an exclamation. Again, it seemed as if August was the one who cancelled the spell given what we know about him. But it's also possible that it was God Serena who stopped his power himself after being told to cease, though I think this to be less likely given God Serena's character.

 

[Labi]

except 1. he admitted that he doesnt stand a chance (he literally said that in the manga) so ur argument is debunked. 2. he got blitz the second GS went down meaning he doesnt even have the speed to copy his magic 3. anco MP>>>>>>>>>>>august this isnt about wanking here is just that august is really that powerful but isnt god tier in his verse

How did you come to the conclusion that August cant copy DS magic? Its still magic.
So what is DS magic supposed to be if its not magic? Bullets you shoot from a pistol? Come on.
And how did you come to the conclusion that August with DS could beat Acnologia? Acnologia is basically immune to magic, he eats magic and gets stronger, that is why he is invincible (well until Natsu one-shots him with savage emotion flames lol). Even if August could have used DS magic against Acnologia, he would have been ripped to shreds by pure physical power and speed.

The reason why he didn't dare challenge Acnologia is because the dude doesn't even need to use magic to completely eviscerate August.

Acnologia put a hole through God Serena in an instant with only his bare hands. Those hands probably have the strength of a dragon's claws...

And August can't cancel somebody's fist.. he can only cancel somebody's magic, which Acnologia wouldn't even care to use.


Being impressed by GS's powers doesn't really prove anything. He was impressed by Hyberion's magic, but still ended up canceling Gildartz's crash spell.

Canonically, there is no reason for us to believe that August cannot copy DS magic..

As far as we know, August can copy and cancel every magic except for holder-type magic.

First of all..
DS Magic was confirmed to only be obtainable if a Dragon gives it to you or with a DS Lacrima.
Then we have the Dragon Seed you get through either ways...

So firstly you have absolutely NO basis comparable to that long established rule of DS magic i just put up. Instead of asking why I claim DS Magic cant be copied without valid arguments or Proof, you should get some arguments 4 yourselves First bc I basically have a Really strong arguments here which basically confirms DS Magic as "holder type"

Now go ahead and tell me how that old scrub copies DS magic...

The same with Anksherams curse. He cant copy it bc its like DS Magic, given/taught to him by someone.

Give me your basis on your argument

 

[coolerthanzerok]

A consideration I had that I find interesting, though irrelevant for this fight, is the idea that perhaps August couldn't cancel curse-based attacks since they're specifically "not magic".

And dude, Dragonslayer magic is caster type. Period. If you don't necessarily use an item, it's caster type. That's the only distinguishing factor.

 

[inactive lurker account]

Let us consider two premises with universal claims.

(1) All dragon slayer magic is acquired only either from a dragon seed or a lacrima.
(2) August can copy all caster magic.

On the one hand, from premise (1), one can conclude the negation of premise (2) via the additional premise that August has neither the dragon seed nor a suitable lacrima with the requisite properties. On the other hand, from premise (2), one can conclude the negation of premise (1) via the additional premise that August has copied dragon slayer magic, possibly God Serena's.

One way to sidestep this would be to negate both premises, by assuming that dragon slayer magic could be acquired through some other way, and by assuming that there are hidden restrictions to the caster magic that August can copy, making the contentions moot. Another way to sidestep this would be to accept both premises, with the additional premise that dragon slayer magic is not caster magic, leading to the conclusion that August is unable to copy dragon slayer magic because it's not within the scope of his abilities.

The problem is that at this point, we haven't been shown other spells that August can copy or has copied, and we haven't been clearly shown a practitioner of dragon slayer magic who acquired the power by some other way. I get the impression that premise (1) is favored over premise (2) because it was introduced earlier and seems to carry greater plot relevance. Other than that I can see that those who would underestimate August would invoke premise (1), while those who would overestimate August would stick to premise (2).

 

[Gaggen]

Wonder why u ppl think August can copy DS magic. He wouldve no diffed Acno then and he wouldnt have been impressed at GS's powers.

U wank August too much for things he couldve possibly done but didnt do.

Stop it pls

Solely bc of this reason i vote 4 Serena

i think this guy kinda answered those who quoted my post. Even if august proceed copying ds spells, would he be proficient with it???? it took laxus years to reach where he is today. even natsu took quite a time to the learn the magic. Having vast amount of magic power doesnt mean you are proficient in copying other's spells. And if august use serena spells against him, serena would fill his stomach with it. so basically to copy serena magic here is redundant. I'd give it extreme diff. And yeah august was spared of gildarts' empryean punch. if he would have been there longer, he was gonna meet the same fate as serena's historia especially after hurting cana. I wouldnt say their fight was mid diff, maybe more than that.... August stomping serena? Nah. Thats basically a megawank...

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 3, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 3, 2017 ---

How is Serena downplayed when he is considered to be on par with Gildarts, that is actually top tier if you ask me.
Actually you are overhyping Serena to be stronger than Gildarts which he's not.
Since when can the "dancing dragon" dragonize, he's a second generation dragon slayer with dragon lacrima in him, he cant dragonize.
Even if you spam different elemetal magic at August one after another, it still wont matter, Jellal and his guild tried that and you saw the result.

Laxus ia a second generation dragon slayer, didnt he dragonize??? Jellal and his freinds spam one magic at a time from different individuals. But if one individual spam 2-3 elemental magic at once, its a different story...

 

[inactive lurker account]

It's hard to assess August's proficiency in the magic that he copies. First we have to ask whether his ability allows him to copy the element or subcategory of the caster magic that he witnesses, or whether it allows him to only copy the particular spell used. Then we have to ask whether his ability allows him to decode the very nature and conditions of the magic that he witnesses, or whether it allows him to only replicate sufficiently similar moves albeit on a greater scale. We also have to ask how many spells or magic subcategories can be copied at a time. Finally, we have to ask whether his ability allows him to determine in a short period of time the various situations and occasions in which the magic can be used well, or whether he has to figure that out by other means. And even if he attains instantaneous near-mastery of the essence of the caster magic that he witnesses, that doesn't mean that he would automatically know the weak points of his opponents, unless he has already copied Wahl's magic and can use it in tandem with the rest of his arsenal that we don't even know about.

The problem, once again, is that Hiro discarded the guy too quickly, and without even giving more clarifications on the matter. We're only given in-universe rumors, self-attestations, hypotheses, off-panel results, and lackluster performance. Heck, we hardly even know the full implications of August having magic power that's 'neither light nor dark'. It boils down to underestimation or overestimation, which is pretty much the deciding factor as to whether August would have a hard time in a match-up.

 

[Nemispelled]

First of all..
DS Magic was confirmed to only be obtainable if a Dragon gives it to you or with a DS Lacrima.
Then we have the Dragon Seed you get through either ways...

So firstly you have absolutely NO basis comparable to that long established rule of DS magic i just put up. Instead of asking why I claim DS Magic cant be copied without valid arguments or Proof, you should get some arguments 4 yourselves First bc I basically have a Really strong arguments here which basically confirms DS Magic as "holder type"

Now go ahead and tell me how that old scrub copies DS magic...

The same with Anksherams curse. He cant copy it bc its like DS Magic, given/taught to him by someone.

Give me your basis on your argument

Since when did "holder-type magic" mean it was given/taught to you by somebody else?

We know for a fact that DS magic isn't holder-type because the magic is channeled through some physical medium..

So I honestly don't know what you're even trying to get at... August copies a person's magic. By simple definition, he can replicate any type of magic, as long as it's not holder-type.

Being taught by a dragon or obtaining a DS Lacrima here is irrelevant because August is not a dragon slayer. He only copies magic, and that's the end of the story.



To put it in simple terms, DS magic isn't connected to any "material".

Unless you can prove that.. which I see absolutely no proof in your argument, then I'm not convinced of your theory.

 

[Enima]

Since when did "holder-type magic" mean it was given/taught to you by somebody else?

We know for a fact that DS magic isn't holder-type because the magic is channeled through some physical medium..

So I honestly don't know what you're even trying to get at... August copies a person's magic. By simple definition, he can replicate any type of magic, as long as it's not holder-type.

Being taught by a dragon or obtaining a DS Lacrima here is irrelevant because August is not a dragon slayer. He only copies magic, and that's the end of the story.



To put it in simple terms, DS magic isn't connected to any "material".

Unless you can prove that.. which I see absolutely no proof in your argument, then I'm not convinced of your theory.

I think someone already mentioned this somewhere but August can copy any magic that doesn't require a physical object. But Dragon slayers either have a Dragon seed or Dragon Lacrima inside their body, both are physical objects so August can't copy DS magic. That said I still think August will win.

 

[Nemispelled]

I think someone already mentioned this somewhere but August can copy any magic that doesn't require a physical object. But Dragon slayers either have a Dragon seed or Dragon Lacrima inside their body, both are physical objects so August can't copy DS magic. That said I still think August will win.

August only needs a physical object if it is holder-type. If it's any other magic, then he can copy it without the material.

The Dragon Seed isn't channeling the dragon slayers' magic. As you can see, Natsu destroyed his dragon seed, but can still cast dragon slay spells. That's the difference between DS magic and holder-type mages.

If you take away Lucy's keys, then she cannot summon any Celestial Spirits.

If you destroy Natsu's dragon seed, he still has the power the slay dragons.

That's likely the same with dragon lacrimas.



The dragon seed and dragon lacrima probably gave the Dragon Slayers their magic, originally. But in terms of where the magic is coming from, all of the dragon slayers have already learned how to use dragon slaying arts.

So as far as I'm concerned, it's not considered holder-type magic.

Plus, August fought and defeated Cobra while fighting Crime Sorciere.

The fight was mostly off-paneled, but it's pretty likely that Cobra used Poison Dragon Slaying Magic at some point in their fight.

 

[BluePegasus]

How can God Serena be in here while Larcade is nowhere to be found? Mess.

August stomps.

 

[Star Frost]

August only needs a physical object if it is holder-type. If it's any other magic, then he can copy it without the material.

The Dragon Seed isn't channeling the dragon slayers' magic. As you can see, Natsu destroyed his dragon seed, but can still cast dragon slay spells. That's the difference between DS magic and holder-type mages.

If you take away Lucy's keys, then she cannot summon any Celestial Spirits.

If you destroy Natsu's dragon seed, he still has the power the slay dragons.

That's likely the same with dragon lacrimas.



The dragon seed and dragon lacrima probably gave the Dragon Slayers their magic, originally. But in terms of where the magic is coming from, all of the dragon slayers have already learned how to use dragon slaying arts.

So as far as I'm concerned, it's not considered holder-type magic.

Plus, August fought and defeated Cobra while fighting Crime Sorciere.

The fight was mostly off-paneled, but it's pretty likely that Cobra used Poison Dragon Slaying Magic at some point in their fight.

Well in GS's case, he's no dragon slayer without a Dragon Lacrima. I'm not sure August would be able to copy his magic without it. Either way August would still win though. As for Cobra, it's likely that he didn't use his Dragon Slaying Magic due to none of them shown any signs that they've been poisoned.

 

[Valhalla]

First of all..
DS Magic was confirmed to only be obtainable if a Dragon gives it to you or with a DS Lacrima.
Then we have the Dragon Seed you get through either ways...

So firstly you have absolutely NO basis comparable to that long established rule of DS magic i just put up. Instead of asking why I claim DS Magic cant be copied without valid arguments or Proof, you should get some arguments 4 yourselves First bc I basically have a Really strong arguments here which basically confirms DS Magic as "holder type"

Now go ahead and tell me how that old scrub copies DS magic...

The same with Anksherams curse. He cant copy it bc its like DS Magic, given/taught to him by someone.

Give me your basis on your argument

Aside from my argument that Acnologia beats August even with DS, i did not really put any other arguments, i just questioned yours to further explain to us what is DS "magic" supposed to be, and why do you think August cant copy DS "magic". And thankfully you explained it to us.
But if you ask for my arguments, well @Nemispelled covered it mostly.

Laxus ia a second generation dragon slayer, didnt he dragonize??? Jellal and his freinds spam one magic at a time from different individuals. But if one individual spam 2-3 elemental magic at once, its a different story...

Ok my bad for the dragonization of second generation DS, but you were treating his dragonization as it were Dragon force, which is not. The "dragonizaon" of second generation is just their means to activate dragon slayer magic and thats it.
Yeah, you also have a point with Jellal and his group, they did cast magic one at a time. But, God Serena still casted his spells one at a time. Even if he casted two dragon slayer spells at the same time (i dont think he managed to do that in the manga, but its verry likely to be possible), its a combination magic attack, its still a caster type magic attack, which August can negate.

 

[coolerthanzerok]

Aside from my argument that Acnologia beats August even with DS, i did not really put any other arguments, i just questioned yours to further explain to us what is DS "magic" supposed to be, and why do you think August cant copy DS "magic". And thankfully you explained it to us.
But if you ask for my arguments, well @Nemispelled covered it mostly.



Ok my bad for the dragonization of second generation DS, but you were treating his dragonization as it were Dragon force, which is not. The "dragonizaon" of second generation is just their means to activate dragon slayer magic and thats it.
Yeah, you also have a point with Jellal and his group, they did cast magic one at a time. But, God Serena still casted his spells one at a time. Even if he casted two dragon slayer spells at the same time (i dont think he managed to do that in the manga, but its verry likely to be possible), its a combination magic attack, its still a caster type magic attack, which August can negate.

Actually, God Serena did multi-cast against Natsu and company! He was using wind, water, and fire when Gildartz negated all three at the same time. And August has crash, soooo...

 

[Valhalla]

Actually, God Serena did multi-cast against Natsu and company! He was using wind, water, and fire when Gildartz negated all three at the same time. And August has crash, soooo...

Valid point with crash. But I think Serena casted his spells one at a time, and not all of them at once (i wont rule out the possibility that he could, it could be possible, but thanks to Mashima well ... ).

 

[Nemispelled]

Well in GS's case, he's no dragon slayer without a Dragon Lacrima. I'm not sure August would be able to copy his magic without it. Either way August would still win though. As for Cobra, it's likely that he didn't use his Dragon Slaying Magic due to none of them shown any signs that they've been poisoned.

We wouldn't necessarily know that because it was never shown.

It's very possible that God Serena may have already adapted to dragon slaying magic. So taking it out might not change his ability to use that art.

I acknowledge that we have no solid proof on either side, but the null hypothesis here is that Dragon Slaying Magic is not a holder-type magic since it was never explicitly stated or proven in the manga.


As for Cobra's situation, fair enough. Although, having no signs of being poisoned would support the hypothesis that August can indeed cancel DS magic.

 

[coolerthanzerok]

Valid point with crash. But I think Serena casted his spells one at a time, and not all of them at once (i wont rule out the possibility that he could, it could be possible, but thanks to Mashima well ... ).

I guess I consider sustaining them all simultaneously a comparable enough feat to simultaneous casting in function, even if it's not technically the same.

I think August is just crazy strong. His CQC is Gildartz tier, his durability against Gildartz' left arm attack is insane, seeing as Gildartz is probably the second strongest Ishgar mage. He cast that crazy nuke that would've killed Natsu and everyone if it hadn't been heat based. He did that after being gutted by Brandish, which is the most damage we've seen him take. He's got Racer's functional speed feats, even if they're just a form of slowing magic, so he's practically one of the fastest characters. He can read minds like Cobra, negate magic either with Crash or his own copying feats. He even has reflector! This guy is crazy, and because of Crash/his ability, he's functionally stronger than pretty much everyone, since most characters need to hit him with magic to beat him, so unless they have holder magic or CQC above Gildartz, he's just too much.

 

[MonkeyD-Dragon]

First of all..
DS Magic was confirmed to only be obtainable if a Dragon gives it to you or with a DS Lacrima.
Then we have the Dragon Seed you get through either ways...

The first sentence is correct, nobody is arguing those.
But you got terribly wrong on the second sentence, you don't get a Dragon Seed from the lacrima.

So firstly you have absolutely NO basis comparable to that long established rule of DS magic i just put up. Instead of asking why I claim DS Magic cant be copied without valid arguments or Proof, you should get some arguments 4 yourselves First bc I basically have a Really strong arguments here which basically confirms DS Magic as "holder type"

You are twisting manga facts, DS magic is confirmed to be caster magic. Denying that is like denying any other manga fact, like Irene isn't Erza's mom for example.

The same with Anksherams curse. He cant copy it bc its like DS Magic, given/taught to him by someone.

He can't copy Death Magic because it comes from a curse, unless you're cursed you can't copy it.
There is a difference too, if August copies DS magic he won't get the dragon seed, he'd get the 2nd Generation DS

Now I want to ask you, what does a Lacrima contain ?
It contains magic.
The DS lacrima contains DS magic, which August can copy because its caster magic.

 

[Enima]

I'm not really sure August can copy DS magic, especially since he was impressed that God S could use 8 types of DS magic. Even if he could, he probably can't copy the physical capabilities of dragon slayers such as eating magic and dragonization since these require the body of the DS to be close to that of a dragon's. So even if August does manage to copy God S' magic it's not going to do him any good. August is not going to be Immune to DS attacks while God S is going to be Immune to all the DS attacks. Not only that, the DS attacks will make God S stronger so August is better off not copying DS magic.

How can God Serena be in here while Larcade is nowhere to be found? Mess.

Larcade doesn't have any really good feats though

 

[CaptainTorch]

I still don't get the debate. I think it's pretty clear who wins.
However, I'm interested - can August copy/nulify trasnformation magic? So for example if he was fighting against Mira, could he nullify her transformation, and transfrom into a demon himself? I mean, it is caster magic.
And if he can, what about Irene? Could he nullify her Dragon Form?