Aokiji created a hole in his body, he did say something like "don't be silly" when the marines screamed he got stabbed by WB's haki claded bisento.
The Zoans did seem more feral than human and they seemed void off any form of inteligence; the way Sadie treated them proves otherwise imo and iirc, she doesn't have any people that she treated similarly to the Zoan creatures. Nothing they did seemed advanced in terms of what Zoans have previously done, they just attacked generically and didn't morph like other Zoans have been shown capable of doing.
It could also mean awakening is rare and the instances it affects surroundings is rarer which would make the most sense like your Zoan comment implies. It would make more sense if only certain DFs can have their effects spread to the surroundings. Could be another 500 chapters before Oda gives more information, lol.
Was aokiji the one that made the hole? It did seem like it was WB who hit him.
I don't think we can make the case that the zoans at ID didn't display intelligence. Its true they did not speak but the situation they were in does not call for intelligence, just fighting which they did very well. They even used weapons. Its true they did not morph however its plausible they simply didn't need to. I guess it depends on what specifically an awakening implies for a zoan user...
I don't think it will be that long until a proper explanation for the awakening is given. Even if it is rare odds are that just as with haki and conqueror's haki luffy and co are heading to the place were awakenings are normal. Once awakening is properly explained it wouldn't even be weird that we can identify people who used fruits before with an awakening. In context people like WB, jozu, marco and several other fruit users should be at the highest fighting tier around, having the highest usage of DFs makes sense for them. Kinda like with haki, its extremely likely that most named people at the war were using it and the combination of us not knowing about it and it being invisible made it not particularly evident.
Was aokiji the one that made the hole? It did seem like it was WB who hit him.
I don't think we can make the case that the zoans at ID didn't display intelligence. Its true they did not speak but the situation they were in does not call for intelligence, just fighting which they did very well. They even used weapons. Its true they did not morph however its plausible they simply didn't need to. I guess it depends on what specifically an awakening implies for a zoan user...
I don't think it will be that long until a proper explanation for the awakening is given. Even if it is rare odds are that just as with haki and conqueror's haki luffy and co are heading to the place were awakenings are normal. Once awakening is properly explained it wouldn't even be weird that we can identify people who used fruits before with an awakening. In context people like WB, jozu, marco and several other fruit users should be at the highest fighting tier around, having the highest usage of DFs makes sense for them. Kinda like with haki, its extremely likely that most named people at the war were using it and the combination of us not knowing about it and it being invisible made it not particularly evident.
It shouldn't be far-fetched that he can create a hole and the same is shown in the Anime which is an exact replication of what was done in the manga I believe.
They did seem like pets or trained animals somehow akin to how armed forces or military could have well trained dogs behave until given instruction to attack where their aggression; I got that sense from them, perhaps it's subjective.
Indeed, I'm with you there. I think most top tier character are already awakened such as Admirals. Everyone imo has their potential and those who have reached it won't get any stronger albeit very very slow compared to those who are still exploring their abilities.
I don't expect Akainu to even become a WB in coming years just as Usopp would never become as strong as Luffy as he has less potential. If Akainu or Kizaru is yet to awaken, then that's quite scary trying to comprehend just how much stronger Luffy and the likes would need to get to be a match for them.
There weren't any awakened zoans at PH. There weren't even zoans safe for the giant blob.
I am not sure there is anything untypical about luffy's fruit. Paramecia is the widest category, its basically anything thats not a logia or zoan. With that in mind a weird paramecia is contextually weird.
Well, there clearly is a way for haki to not outright hurt logia users. Though the specific situation has not yet been explained. I guess we will see it a little later on when we see the strongest logias around fighting. The akainu bit is not the only case after all, WB also impaled aokiji and aokiji lived. I guess it could be that they simply move their body around within their element so to speak...
Loll, i dont know why i typed Punk Hazard, I meant ID only.
On the logia part, that is true... sometimes different translations lead to different interpretations and the part where Akainu got cut with in a video was explained as a complete shock by Marco and others over how he is able to retain his form back instantly. The manga translation i posted says otherwise.
Since Doflamingo has elaborated a little more on 'Awakened' DFs that were alluded to in the Impel Down arc, perhaps its time to hypothesize what powers certain Devil Fruits will have when 'Awakened', which is what this thread is for. Feel free to speak up any theory you have and debate with others.
[gb] Threads merged. Again, please ensure you check for existing threads before creating new ones[/gb]
I think that we saw awaken power in the past, but like Haki it was not explained.
First one must be Crocodile, he say that he push his devil fruit to the limit, and he know about awakening ! http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/201/9
He clearly turn object into sand around him, but not as the same scale as Doflamingo.
The second one is Magellan http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/547/5
Who turn all what is around and touch him in poison, a Powerhouse like him should know about awakening and use it.
I think that we saw awaken power in the past, but like Haki it was not explained.
First one must be Crocodile, he say that he push his devil fruit to the limit, and he know about awakening ! http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/201/9
He clearly turn object into sand around him, but not as the same scale as Doflamingo.
That was because of his fruit's ability to dry things up.
You know, it's funny. After all the times Luffy encountered Haki, he finally gets his own, only for a new level of power to appear. I can only imagine how powerful Luffy will become when he 'Awakens' his fruit.
You can probably only awaken your devil fruit after a years of using it to its full extent. Just look at aokiji and akainu who changed an island climate, their df is awakened too.
Luffy's Awakening (theories) plus his Haoshoku no Haki
Here( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsvoDcNQUvg ) someone made quite nice theory and i like it also there is connection with Haoshoku no Haki and it is for me important because this supreme Haki will be the most important factor to decide the king of seas. If we can use Haoshoku as destructive force after mastering it, it will be epic and it makes sense because Shanks is living proof of that. Just imagine someone who can create destructive shockwaves coming from his body.
What do you think?
Re: Luffy's Awakening (theories) plus his Haoshoku no Haki
I think it's a horrible theory for various reasons:
"Aura of Haoshoku haki"
We simply don't know exactly what CoC does; people just attribute any cool visual effects to CoC. It's intention isn't for that, it has an actual purpose that is yet to be unravelled.
Another thing is it's just not an effective method for physical application; it may have dented a part of WB's ship, but anyone with a decent punch could do the same. The dent is just indicative of the intensity and WB even said it was in full-force, so if that's the best CoC can do then it's really unlikely to be a tangible powerful force.
Awakenings
For one, Joker never said Paramecia awakenings always affect surroundings; in fact, he said it generally concerning devil fruits...
Joker: Listen up hatch-ling, Devil fruits have a whole other stage to them, it's called "awakenings". Very rarely, an ability will awaken and begin to affect things other than the user's own body. - Powermanga
He said the moments it affects things other than the user's body such as the surroundings which implies it the moments it affects surroundings is subjective to the Devil fruit regardless of type.
Touching a stone for awakening
This isn't even One Piece anymore; sounds like some DBZ nonsense or legend of Aang thing. Such a thing has never happened in One Piece before or similar, so why now?
Monet, Magellan and Enel awakened
Another misconception here too, apparently any power that allows one to transform into something symbolic is awakened. I doubt that's the purpose of awakenings.
This is just an amalgamation of unrelated things that visually are appealing, but in the end have no consistency. Awakenig affecting surroundings wasn't limited to Paramecias or stated to be and nothing suggests awakening is a mode or gear in Luffy's case; if anything, it's been shown to be a permanent level that displays mastery over a Devil fruit.
I find it a bad theory in general and random guess-work blended with intuition.
Re: Luffy's Awakening (theories) plus his Haoshoku no Haki
I was watching the video and it started out... ok I guess and then it got into the asinine territory. This guy built an entire theory about luffy's gear 5 around copper appearing precisely after kaido beats luffy up. I haven't seen the entire thing just yet but if it suddenly crashed and burned so abruptly I find it hard to believe it will improve.
Ok, saw the next few seconds. Really? Touching a stone? So luffy is a pokemon now? Its one thing that there is sea stone around but a rock that allows luffy to evolve is kinda ridiculous, at least in this stage of the manga.. And still, the theory is basing this on an entirely random event. Assuming luffy even meets copper at a different point then the entire thing goes down the drain. Not to mention that luffy fighting on equal ground with kaido is incredible enough as it is. Luffy could not fight on even ground with doflamingo, there is no way he is fighting on par with a yonko any time soon. Defeating kaido will probably require equally incredible circumstances to defeating doflamingo. Actually thats wrong, even similar circumstances would not be enough to defeat kaido, the guy would have to be severely more handicapped than doflamingo was (taking hits from luffy and law, then the attack that law used to cut his insides and then 2 rounds of gear 4) for the heart and strawhat pirates to have a chance. I wouldn't be surprised if kaido is defeated by at least the entire strawhat crew confronting him...
Also... why would luffy need to pray for an awakening? This is oddly specific... And if the gear is based on skin then he wouldn't need an awakening to use it. Its not like luffy needs haki to inflate his muscles in gear 4. Its just that gear 4 is more effective that way. I am not sure either of how skin control could do that.. is he inflating his skin? Which is doable but it doesn't seem like it would do what the theory suggests. Bone is inherently hard which is why gear 3 is effective. Muscles increase their strength when they are larger which is why gear 4 is effective. But what exactly does inflated skin does? Not to mention that if luffy can do such a thing to his skin then he can certainly do it to every other part of his body. Even assuming the awakening granted luffy telekinetic control over rubber of his body so to speak then certainly there would be better ways to use it than on his skin.
I am not sure of why control over his skin would give him shockwaves... how exactly does that work? Not to mention that conquerors haki almost certainly cannot create elements. Fire is a commonly used element (luffy, zoro, sanji, kinemon) and its unlikely all of them are conqueror haki users. Assuming haki has something to do with element using without DFs then the type that would most likely be related to it is armor haki, not conquerors haki. As for the staff thing, its unlikely. Luffy would need to learn how to use a weapon. And we know how that worked out the last time he tried it (arlong laugh it off). Luffy would need years of training to get any degree of competence with a weapon at this point.
Now, the comparisons to sun wukong are indeed relevant to the story. However in context I would rather argue that the "staff" is basically luffy's own body. It wouldn't be weird if he eventually gets attacks named based on the staff itself. His stretching along with his haki would make this ideal seeing that with haki he can even resists sword attacks provided his haki is stronger. Then again saying gear 5 will be based on sun wukong when luffy and his powers are already probably at least inspired on him and his staff it sort of redundant and adds nothing to the story.
Re: Luffy's Awakening (theories) plus his Haoshoku no Haki
That guy who made the video just says what he wants. How does he know how luffy's gear 5th looks like? How does he know that luffy will get gear 5th? Its just baseless assumptioms which everyone can do.
See if he did a theory on gear 4 before it was released was close to what ofa thought. If not then most of his theories might be rubbish.
Re: Luffy's Awakening (theories) plus his Haoshoku no Haki
The issue is not that the theory is something anyone can do... the issue is that there is really nothing to it. The most crucial piece of evidence the theory is based on is basically an unfounded prediction which might or might not happen (them meeting bronze after fighting kaido). There is nothing really to discuss because there is nothing to refute really, its all baseless ideas which could or not happen. The theory uses no real evidence or manga foreshadowing or even proper logic.
Re: Luffy's Awakening (theories) plus his Haoshoku no Haki
I really, really do hate to see those tinfoil theories being brought here, and discussed seriously. It's not worth the trouble to start a whole thread, to discuss something that can be only described as tinfoil.
Re: Luffy's Awakening (theories) plus his Haoshoku no Haki
This videos takes such a hilariously absurd turn towards the middle. I was going to make a joke about Holt making this video because the creator has the same avatar, but I just can't.
Touching stones to get Awakening? Inner beings? When it began, I cut the guy some slack. Some of the stuff he pointed out could happen. Mostly Scopper's potential connection to Wano because of his hat. The latter half of the video is nothing but wishful thinking. I mean, I know it's just a theory, but, as kkck said, most of the stuff in the video is baseless.
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I really, really do hate to see those tinfoil theories being brought here, and discussed seriously. It's not worth the trouble to start a whole thread, to discuss something that can be only described as tinfoil.
That guy who made the video just says what he wants. How does he know how luffy's gear 5th looks like? How does he know that luffy will get gear 5th? Its just baseless assumptioms which everyone can do.
See if he did a theory on gear 4 before it was released was close to what ofa thought. If not then most of his theories might be rubbish.
Theories are just theories Theory can turn into reality or not Sometimes theories are better than things happening in actual manga For example, If Kishimoto created Naruto based on theories from fans, it would be completely different manga. Story would be decent Oda is also not so good recently. Sometimes he can give us YOOOO chapter like last one but most of chapters are just garbage. Fans want Luffy to mature a bit and same thing we can tell about story. Readers are constantly growing up so also story should. Well it is shounen so it can not be too mature but it should mature. One Piece was more serious at the beginning than it is now and it is disappointment.
About awakening hmm who knows how it will turn out in case of Luffy but we for sure need next time skip at least 2 years because it is impossible for kid to conquer world and it would be complete bullshit. How can he stand chance against veterans like Yonkou and so on. Roger conquered world but he was quite matured at that time and for sure he did this by using haki. He probably achieved the peak of conqueror's haki. We have already seen that Haoshoku can effects on material things(Shanks) and we have also seen clash of conquerors haki and destruction created by it so we can assume that after you achieve peak of this power you will be able to use it in combat. You will be able to create shockwaves, penetrate internals of opponents, breaking their Busoshoku no haki, completely nullify power of fruits. There must be reason why this kind of haki is so rare and feared by everyone. The strongest Marines for sure know something and the same thing we can tell about yonkous and BB. Roger was considered as monster for sure because of that and also look at Shanks. Dude just with only haki became yonkou. He has just one ship unlike other Yonkous who have huge armies. Marines shit their pants just because he apeared and BB even with 2 fruits is afraid to fight with him.
Luffy has to master Haoshoku but it takes time so it will be impossible without time skip.
We have no definite proof that Haki is needed to awaken a DF, or else it would mean those awakened Zoan ID guards had CoC, which is ridiculous. We have absolutely no info about the circumstances a user can attain the awakening, and frankly it might not even be necessary. Even with his awakening DD wasn't able to turn the tables, Gear 4 was clearly superior.
---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 PM ----------
Theories are just theories Theory can turn into reality or not Sometimes theories are better than things happening in actual manga For example, If Kishimoto created Naruto based on theories from fans, it would be completely different manga. Story would be decent Oda is also not so good recently. Sometimes he can give us YOOOO chapter like last one but most of chapters are just garbage. Fans want Luffy to mature a bit and same thing we can tell about story. Readers are constantly growing up so also story should. Well it is shounen so it can not be too mature but it should mature. One Piece was more serious at the beginning than it is now and it is disappointment.
Well then why don't all those guys write their own manga, based on these theories?If they think they can manage to make it more popular than the real thing...
About awakening hmm who knows how it will turn out in case of Luffy but we for sure need next time skip at least 2 years because it is impossible for kid to conquer world and it would be complete bullshit. How can he stand chance against veterans like Yonkou and so on. Roger conquered world but he was quite matured at that time and for sure he did this by using haki. He probably achieved the peak of conqueror's haki. We have already seen that Haoshoku can effects on material
things(Shanks) and we have also seen clash of conquerors haki and destruction created by it so we can assume that after you achieve peak of this power you will be able to use it in combat.
The clash between Luffy's and DD's haki didn't cause destruction
You will be able to create shockwaves, penetrate internals of opponents, breaking their Busoshoku no haki, completely nullify power of fruits. There must be reason why this kind of haki is so rare and feared by everyone.
Yeah it is feared because it knocks out people, nothing was said about piercing one's haki and nullifying their DF, that's too OP.
The strongest Marines for sure know something and the same thing we can tell about yonkous and BB. Roger was considered as monster for sure because of that and also look at Shanks. Dude just with only haki became yonkou.
No I bet he needed more than just Haki to become a Yonko. He was Mihawk's rival after all, and even though he might have lost his sword hand, Shanks can still be a powerful swordsman.
He has just one ship unlike other Yonkous who have huge armies. Marines shit their pants just because he apeared and BB even with 2 fruits is afraid to fight with him.
Luffy has to master Haoshoku but it takes time so it will be impossible without time skip.
Another time skip will definitely kill the fans, this time it shouldn't happen till they're really about to reach Raftel, if not at all...
I guess that why those theories are liked, even though they have no substance is because they serve what people want. They don't even try to make sense, they just continue to serve tinfoil because people find that amusing, and I really don't understand how people can buy it.
Awakening is a huge topic of interest and it has become one of mine too. Initially, I assumed it could end up with a lot of discrepancies if it were a deus-ex machina boost as there are so many devil fruit abilities, but Oda's shown he has a method to his madness.
If anything, I expect awakening to be similar to haki; something that's been a part of One Piece since the beginning, isn't outlandish and is usually pretty simple. As we all saw with gear 4th, it was absolutely simple and straightforward and I expect awakening to be the same.
Without further ado, I shall proceed to breaking down awakening and elaborate on the results of my findings.
What is Awakening
Awakening is the full manifesting of a Devil fruit's full power; it's a phenomenon that occurs when one has fully learnt to control their devil fruit.
A simple analogy to explain awakening would be it's more sensible to be able to ride a bicycle with perfect control at high speeds before upgrading to a motorbike or accidents will occur; the same is synonymous with Devil fruits, you don't get to use the full potential of an ability when control isn't adequate or it becomes a counter-productive and useless power.
Devil fruits
Devil fruits as we know endow one with powers; unbeknownst to us, there exists another side to these Devil fruits which is called awakening. I will be breaking up devil fruits into 2 sub-divisions:
Baby-Stage: When referring to the initial powers granted which is the suppressed power of a Devil fruit.
Awakened-Stage: When referring to the unsuppressed power of a Devil fruit.
The user's role and levels of Devil fruit control
The user and the Devil fruit are 2 separate entities, Joker's brief description of awakening is consistent with this belief; he goes on to mentions that it's the Devil fruit that awakens rather than the user. If it's the Devil fruit that awakens, then it begs the question, what role does the user play in awakening the devil fruit?
According to my findings, awakening is dependant on 1 factor which is perfect control over a Devil fruit at its "Baby-stage". How did I come to such a conclusion? One has to read Joker's analysis of Luffy before he boasts about awakening as answered in the spoiler below.
Joker first analyses Luffy's gear 4th and his analysis implies it's being held in place by haki rather than being solely used to enhance or support gear 4th; Luffy doesn't cover his body in haki for gear 2 or 3 because haki isn't fundamental in maintaining those forms.
Joker proceeds to confirm this assertion by acknowledging Luffy's fairly good grasp over his ability, which in other words, means he doesn't have perfect control yet which can ultimately be translated as Luffy wouldn't need to use haki to maintain his gear 4th, if his control were that of perfect mastery.
Based on this, it seems rather conclusive that only perfect control is necessary for one to awaken.
Simply put, there are 2 levels of Devil fruit control:
Baby-tier control: Imperfect control over a Devil fruit.
Awakened-tier control: Perfect control over a Devil fruit.
Advancing from Baby-tier control to Awakened-tier control at a Devil fruit's Baby-stage is when the Devil fruit advances to the Awakened-stage.
Awakening Model:
On consumption, user is at Baby-tier control and has access to the Devil fruit's "Baby-stage" abilities.
Train to advance from Baby-tier control to Awakened-tier control.
Fruit advances to the Awakened-stage once user has advanced to Awakened-tier control.
Rarity of Awakenings
Joker: Listen up hatchlings, Devil fruits have a whole other stage to them; it's called "Awakening". Very rarely, an ability will "Awaken" and begin to affects things other than the user's own body.- Powermanga Translation
The first thing to notice is he never says awakening is rare; however, he just says it's the next and final stage to Devil fruit progression or development. He only mentions an Aspect of awakening that is rare and that's when it affects beyond the user's body like Joker showcasing the evidence of his fruit being awakened.
This external effect is such as buildings turning into strings can be activated or deactivated, so awakened users can affect when their fruits affect their surroundings.
Why don't all Devil fruits Awakenings affect outside the user's body?
As the translations imply, an awakening will not always affect the surroundings. One has to ask then when does it affect the surroundings? Seemingly, it affects the surroundings depending on the nature of the Devil fruit or ability at the Baby-Stage.
The first Criteria is the ability must allow a user to produce and control substances of innumerable quantities which so far includes two Paremecia, Joker and Trebol along with all Logia.
Being that the purpose of awakening is to increase the effect of an ability, if an ability at the Baby-stage allows one to produce a substance, awakening enhances that ability by increasing the amount of the substance produced.
The question is what is the source of this increase? and this is where the surroundings become important.
If we use Ace, a Logia, as an example and assume Ace was awakened which I believe he was, what was his final and ultimate attack? "Flame Emperor" which was a huge flame ball we can assume requires being awakened. We can also assume he didn't need to turn trees and buildings into flames, he can just conjure it which means his awakening doesn't depend on surroundings as a source.
The question that finally arises is why does Ace's awakening not depend on the surrounding inanimate objects to produce fire, while Joker requires's awakening requires the surrouding to produce strings?
Perhaps, if the object being produced isn't intangible like Fire, Sand, Magma, etc. then, it won't affects the surroundings whereas if it is tangible like strings, it will affect surroundings.
Out of all the people who create and produce a substance that is tangible, those who produce tangible substances are:
Joker's Ito Ito no Mi (Paramecia)
And this is why such awakenings are rare; not many DF users will extend their powers to their surroundings besides Joker.
Permanent or Temporary
It's a permanent effect. Where is the sense in being a master at controlling one's abilities for a moment and then suddenly being bad at it? None whatsoever. How to prove this? The Zoans in Impel-down were awakened and despite losing consciousness, they remained in the same form.
This means awakening is not a temporary power-up since it neither requires stamina or consciousness (like gear 4th) as proven by awakened Zoans and this is also consistent with the theory that it's a level of mastery which isn't something lost with consciousness or stamina either.
Also, remember the awakening occurs in the fruit; not on the individual directly. So even though Joker was knocked out, his fruit doesn't lose it's status of being awakened except on death of the user where someone else will have to awaken it if consumed.
Predicting Awakening Power-Ups
We initially spotted the awakened Zoans in Impel-down and Crocodile mentioned that they had increased resilience due to being awakened. We only saw them in their Awakened-stage, but based on Crocodile's comment it can be deduced that their resilience is higher than it was in the Baby-stage.
Baby-stage: Zoan Devil fruit grants a resistance value 30 (made up value).
Awakened-stage: Zoan Devil fruit now grants a resistance value level of 100 (made up value).
First thing to understand is Zoan Devil fruits naturally and by default increase one's physical feats and this fruit clearly increased their resistance at the Baby-stage and enhanced this even further at the Awakened Stage.
Joker before mentioning he was an awakened devil fruit user showed amazing utility of his Devil fruit. We saw him healing internal injuries; creating clones; manipulating people and using it to fly. It's fair to say even without the Birdcage and the White techniques (off-white, God thread, etc), he showed excellent control and mastery.
Baby-stage: The Devil fruit only create strings from the user's body and possesses less variety of strings.
Awakened-stage: As we all saw, the Devil fruit now has a huge variety of strings and creates strings from outside the user's body too.
What's quite clear is the awakened string fruit allowed him to have a larger source of strings which enabled him to produce much larger attacks.
Luffy has shown excellent control over his abilities, his gears show how well Luffy has advanced in manipulating his abilities. Gear 4th however powerful it is cannot be utilized if not being held together by haki and evidently, it shows that he's not mastered his Devil fruit manipulation as Joker rightly stated. If anything, haki being used with gear 4th is acting as a training wheel in aiding Luffy in learning to maintain this form.
Baby-stage: Rubber Devil fruit can stretch and expand within set limits and offers good durability against blunt-attacks.
Awakened-stage: The Rubber Devil fruit now stretches and expands even further (with little to no limitation) and has increased durability against blunt attacks.
If Luffy can stretch further because of enhanced elasticity and durability,
it means:
Gear 2 can be faster and stronger since it can handle fast flow of blood than at the Baby-stage.
Gear 3 can be bigger and compress even more air than at the Baby-stage, either way it's more powerful.
Gear 4 wouldn't exhaust him any more because of stronger elasticity & durability and haki wouldn't be necessary to support it, but only to enhance it's power.
Stronger rubber properties means he can combine Muscle balloon and Bone balloon without risk; he'd probably almost die doing that now, Gear 5?
Conclusion
It's relatively straight forward; once the user's control has advanced from Baby-tier control to Awakened-tier control at the Devil fruit's Baby-stage, it means the Devil fruit advances to the Awakened staged where the full spectrum of the Devil fruit's power is simply unleashed (permanently).
Theory can turn into reality or not 
