Canon Base Luffy vs Zoro

[Pirate Queen]

Go find some rubber, stretch it.
Then, make a cut on that rubber and then stretch it. Observe.

Go find some rubber, stretch it.
Then, make a cut on that rubber and then stretch it. Observe.

That panel proves nothing Nik. How on earth does that answer the question. By this panel alone it shows Luffy has to stretch beyond his ability to stretch for him to tear his arms off.

Nami didnt say ARM she said ARMS so even the one that wasnt cut was going to rip off.

It's pure headcanon to think Luffy has a weakness to blades.

Show another panel so that can be debunked as well

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

I even forgot who originally pushed the narrative that Luffy has a weakness to swordsmen

No because EVERYONE has that same advantage over Luffy. Luffy just stretching increases him as a target. How are swordsmen the ONLY ones that are able to tag Luffy better?

Geez, just when I thought we were past this lol.

Limb loss >>>>>> simple damage

I feel like I'm trying to give directions to Zoro.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Limb loss >>>>>> simple damage

I feel like I'm trying to give directions to Zoro.

Luffy foresaw his hands getting cut off by MIHAWK how on earth is Zoro more of a threat to Luffy's limbs than that? Please tell me.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2019 ---

Let me add, a Luffy who didnt have FUTURE SIGHT foresaw Mihawk cutting off his hands.

 

[nik87]

Show another panel so that can be debunked as well

You didnt debunk the first one either but since you ask...

 

[Pirate Queen]

You didnt debunk the first one either but since you ask...

I actually debunked both.

It's not a weakness. He's susceptible to sharp damage. It's not a weakness. Your problem is you dont know the difference.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2019 ---

Let me end this simply.... Are we going to say that Zoro has a weakness to Lightening because Enel One Shot him???

Absolutely not! But he is susceptible to the damage that lightening causes!

Zoro's been punch before. Anyone wanna say punches are his weakness?

Zoro was shot, are bullets his weakness?

And my favorite

Who wants to step right up and say Zoro's weakness are simple NAILS?

 

[nik87]

I actually debunked both.

It's not a weakness. He's susceptible to sharp damage. It's not a weakness. Your problem is you dont know the difference.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2019 ---

Let me end this simply.... Are we going to say that Zoro has a weakness to Lightening because Enel One Shot him???

Absolutely not! But he is susceptible to the damage that lightening causes!

Zoro's been punch before. Anyone wanna say punches are his weakness?

Zoro was shot, are bullets his weakness?

And my favorite

Who wants to step right up and say Zoro's weakness are simple NAILS?

Manga: It's a weakness.
You: No, it's not.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Manga: It's a weakness.
You: No, it's not.

Zoro: " I'll never lose again"

*gets oneshot by Enel

You: doesnt count because Enel wasn't a swordsman

See, even the manga can be wrong sometimes. Luffy is an idiot, he may very well think it is a weakness.

But it is not. You are litterally arguing the DEFINITION of a word, not me, at this point


Address why Luffy weakness is swords, but Zoro's weakness isn't punches.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

The thing is... everyone is weak to cuts, except the ones immun to that, but even then you have haki to bypass. Its not that cutting is Luffys personal weakness, or that he gets more cut then one. <- I think thats Lexus point right?

But against swords, you need something to defend yourself(if your haki isnt superior... god i hate haki...) and since Luffy fights without weapons, his brawlingstyle isnt just fitted against a swordsman. (Mihawkscene) Thats why we say he is "weak" to them. You know. Like:

Paper(Fist, Rubberbody) beats ranged blunt attacks (stone)
ranged blunt attacks(stone) beats swordmanship(scissor)
swordmanship(scissors) beats fists, rubberbody(paper)

Before haki we even had spock(logia) and lizard(rayleigh).

In short: Luffy isnt weak to swords. But his fightingstyle is.

 

[kkck]

The thing is... everyone is weak to cuts, except the ones immun to that, but even then you have haki to bypass. Its not that cutting is Luffys personal weakness, or that he gets more cut then one. <- I think thats Lexus point right?

But against swords, you need something to defend yourself(if your haki isnt superior... god i hate haki...) and since Luffy fights without weapons, his brawlingstyle isnt just fitted against a swordsman. (Mihawkscene) Thats why we say he is "weak" to them. You know. Like:

Paper(Fist, Rubberbody) beats ranged blunt attacks (stone)
ranged blunt attacks(stone) beats swordmanship(scissor)
swordmanship(scissors) beats fists, rubberbody(paper)

Before haki we even had spock(logia) and lizard(rayleigh).

In short: Luffy isnt weak to swords. But his fightingstyle is.

The manga at times has made that point but ultimately it doesn't actually provide an explanation as to why or how luffy is "weak" to cuts. Overall cuts simply are the best way to damage luffy as he simply won't bounce them off... But even in a worst case scenario should still be more resistant to cuts than a non rubber person. Add to that the haki factor.

As far as the mihawk scene, it absolutely does not show luffy is not fit to fight swordsmen. Mihawk is one of the strongest characters in the series and he was fighting luffy at a point where there was no scenario where luffy wasn't less than worthless fodder to him. Luffy fought zoro evenly early in the series, swords and all... And that was before haki came into the equation. This isn't a series where martial arts have inherent advantages over the other as they do in real life. being a swordsman isn't inherently better than being a brawler. Skill and haki wins fights, not specific fighting styles. Neither luffy nor his fighting style are weak to swords. If swords were inherently stronger than other fighting styles then not one person in this series would be a brawler. Because they'd die to the superior fighting style.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Luffy foresaw his hands getting cut off by MIHAWK how on earth is Zoro more of a threat to Luffy's limbs than that? Please tell me.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2019 ---

Let me add, a Luffy who didnt have FUTURE SIGHT foresaw Mihawk cutting off his hands.

You're ignoring your own topic restriction:

No one is saying Zoro would lose. I have Zoro winning this battle with extremem difficulty. Never said Zoro would lose. I'm saying Luffy is not weak to blades.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

no way zoro has extreme difficulty against base luffy
luffy needs gear for his speed and power. His base body is weak, hence why the gears are needed in first place
Zoro overwhelms luffy here.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You're ignoring your own topic restriction:

Not understanding what your trying to do. Bottom line is that if Zoro beats Luffy it is because he is a superior fighter not because Luffy is somehow weaker to blades than he is to other fighting styles. Bottom line

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2019 ---

no way zoro has extreme difficulty against base luffy
luffy needs gear for his speed and power. His base body is weak, hence why the gears are needed in first place
Zoro overwhelms luffy here.

Luffy kept up with Katakuri in base for hours. Gears are no longer necessary for all but the higher tiers of opponent and there is no evidence to support Zoro is a high enough tier for Luffy to need a boost in power or speed when he has Future Sight and Internal Damage Haki now.

Zoro definitely wins, but high/extreme diff no less.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Not understanding what your trying to do. Bottom line is that if Zoro beats Luffy it is because he is a superior fighter not because Luffy is somehow weaker to blades than he is to other fighting styles. Bottom line

You're suddenly interested in the bottom line after 5+ pages of off topic discussion? I wonder who managed to get you back on track.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You're suddenly interested in the bottom line after 5+ pages of off topic discussion? I wonder who managed to get you back in track.

How is the discussion off topic. Luffy having a weakness is a big fucking deal if his weakness is a swordsman and the topic is Luffy vs Zoro.

We have to decide if Luffy truly is weaker to blades then other forms of fighting styles because right off the bat Zoro has a advantage over him.

In no way is it off topic and I've quite enjoyed it.

What I stated was MY bottom line.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

How is the discussion off topic. Luffy having a weakness is a big fucking deal if his weakness is a swordsman and the topic is Luffy vs Zoro.

We have to decide if Luffy truly is weaker to blades then other forms of fighting styles because right off the bat Zoro has a advantage over him.

In no way is it off topic and I've quite enjoyed it.

What I stated was MY bottom line.

It's irrelevant because armament levels up the playing field anyway.

 

[Pirate Queen]

It's irrelevant because armament levels up the playing field anyway.

I disagree, but I'm okay with that.

Cheers.

 

[nik87]

Luffy is the only character who stretches and thus, he is harmed by cuts more than anyone else.
It is as simple as that and that's why Oda babysits him and keeps him away from swordsmen and uses plot armor even when they cut him(momonga).
He has never been cut so badly for you to see him tearing up and losing part of the body, dont expect proof of such because Oda will never do that.

 

[Pirate Queen]

*Oda babysits him and keeps him away from swordsmen*



Let's get one thing perfectly clear. Cracker was a swordsmen. Cracker wielded Pretzel (A meito) and was the closest to ever remove a limb from Luffy. Luffy has defeated a Yonko Commander Level Swordsmen before Zoro.

You can cry all you want, but it happened. Even with Preztel, Cracker was unable to land a single critical hit on Luffy after fighting for hours.

Let me guess your response: "Cracker isn't a "pure swordsman"

My response: Bullshit. Cracker wielded Preztel in more panels than Rayliegh and Roger wielded a sword and you are so quick to say they are swordsmen. Fujitora is a swordsman and uses a DF like Cracker, but Fujitora is a swordsman. But you single out Cracker, what a joke.

 

[nik87]

*Oda babysits him and keeps him away from swordsmen*

You object the idea and post a panel of Arlong offering his sword Luffy for grabbing.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You object the idea and post a panel of Arlong offering his sword Luffy for grabbing.

I dont object the idea. I am showing while you are factually wrong. You cant even understand a simple counter point