Canon Base Luffy vs Zoro

[Pirate Queen]

If Zoro could beat Luffy, wouldn't Zoro be captain? What has Zoro done that Luffy couldn’t? What did Luffy do that Zoro could do better?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

If he 'defeated' Katakuri at high diff, post 'training arc', shouldn't he be able to somewhat stand against Queen now? I believe that was the point of this prison build up

We arent talking Zoro vs Luffy,

We are talking Zoro vs Luffy(without using his gears). Essentially we nerfed Luffy for the sake of arguement.

 

[nik87]

If he 'defeated' Katakuri at high diff, post 'training arc', shouldn't he be able to somewhat stand against Queen now? I believe that was the point of this prison build up

With seastone cuffs, without his DF?

 

[Copy Panda]

Yeah for whatever reason when I read base I automatically assumed G1, 2 and 3 were included. Mostly because I consider G4 an actual form, compared to other gears.

So Zoro has... everything... and Luffy has... No gears? Lol?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

With seastone cuffs, without his DF?

Yes, to further improve his base stats. Consider how he’s now moving so freely he’s barely noticing the sea stone anymore, compared to earlier. This training will further bolster his combat ability, to the point that he should be able to not die vs not-the-strongest-YC of Kaido

 

[nik87]

Yes, to further improve his base stats. Consider how he’s now moving so freely he’s barely noticing the sea stone anymore, compared to earlier. This training will further bolster his combat ability, to the point that he should be able to not die vs not-the-strongest-YC of Kaido

For me that makes no sense at all.
Surely he will not die, plot armor protects him from that but any challenge against YC2 without his gears is unreasonable, imo.

 

[Copy Panda]

Ah, he'll obviously not fight them with the cuffs on. I'm saying that when the cuffs come off, because he's used to moving around with a handicap, when he's free, he should be stronger compared to before. Like taking off weights, I imagine.

 

[nik87]

Ah, he'll obviously not fight them with the cuffs on. I'm saying that when the cuffs come off, because he's used to moving around with a handicap, when he's free, he should be stronger compared to before. Like taking off weights, I imagine.

Yeah, I can see that happening too.
Zoans should be stronger physically than Cracker and Katakuri but I doubt they can brush of Kong Gun easily.

 

[King Moe]

Based on what exactly Moe Kun?

What happens is

Luffy: I bet I can whoop your ass without any gears zoro!

Zoro: Oh rly?

15 seconds later:

Spoiler

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

Same scenario for gear second and third Luffy but mid diff instead of low/neg

Mind showing real proof instead of Photoshop stuff as the poll I brought in think Majority still has Luffy on top, but nice for you to try your heart out to defy it.

 

[Copy Panda]

What argument is there for base Zoro beating base Luffy (and what does and doesn't include base form)

 

[King Moe]

Just to rob KingMoe beforehand:

But Hawkins Nails!

Flatter you use my words. Let me use yours .

"Stay on sidelines to watch while eating popcorn ;P."

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

Zoro is a CoA Haki specialist true, but by you own admission it is a tad lower than Luffy's so we've established he would have a hard time cutting Luffy (and this is still in base)

Zoro can block Fishman projectiles and dodge quickly, but Luffy has future sight so and fight between the 2 is an uphill battle for Zoro let alone when you add gears to it.

Zoro beats Base Luffy Mid-Diff
Zoro wins/loses/ties Gears 2/3 Luffy Extreme Diff
Zoro loses against Gear 4 Luffy Low Diff

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

Live footage of Zoro dodging Hawkins nails if Luffy and Okiku didnt need protecting

Luffy is there. What protecting? Zoro is trained by 'Hawkeye' Mihawk. If you never been observant and block something like nails completely even if you defending someone, that's and insult to him. Put Mihawk there and tell me how he would react to it. He probably be disgusted by the sight of it.

 

[nik87]

What argument is there for base Zoro beating base Luffy (and what does and doesn't include base form)

Everything that Luffy can do without going into g2, g3, g4...
Zoro has no modes/gears so he can use everything.

Luffy is there. What protecting?

Zoro said he will take care of Hawkins and he did. It doesnt matter if Luffy can handle the nails or not, letting the nails slip past Zoro means he fails at taking care of Hawkins, he did his job. You are still arguing things that nobody argues.

 

[King Moe]

What argument is there for base Zoro beating base Luffy (and what does and doesn't include base form)

I see it both bases access to Haki and if so, then Zoro not winning still as Luffy's Haki is greater than his all around.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

Everything that Luffy can do without going into g2, g3, g4...
Zoro has no modes/gears so he can use everything.

Zoro said he will take care of Hawkins and he did. It doesnt matter if Luffy can handle the nails or not, letting the nails slip past Zoro means he fails at taking care of Hawkins, he did his job. You are still arguing things that nobody argues.

Luffy said he protect her too. If they get pass, he can harden his skill to deflect them, but sadly Zoro never thought of that or even using Haki at all. Sloppy work all around and thus one of the reasons I don't see Zoro's Haki is better than Luffy's Haki in base fight too.

 

[nik87]

Luffy said he protect her too. If they get pass, he can harden his skill to deflect them, but sadly Zoro never thought of that or even using Haki at all. Sloppy work all around and thus one of the reasons I don't see Zoro's Haki is better than Luffy's Haki in base fight too.

Irrelevant argument. Zoro didnt use CoA nor CoO at all in that moment.
He said he would take care of Hawkins and he did, Hawkins couldnt go past Zoro, not a scratch on Luffy or Tama.

 

[King Moe]

Irrelevant argument. Zoro didnt use CoA nor CoO at all in that moment.
He said he would take care of Hawkins and he did, Hawkins could go past Zoro, not a scratch on Luffy or Tama.

Should have as a swordsman, he should be quick on the draw. No excuse he take hits when Haki prevents you and even if he can't block them all, he could harden his skin to prevent damage. Didn't really take care of him as more like he choose not to persuade by card signs.

He didn't protect really. Luffy know how to do it better.

 

[Copy Panda]

But if Luffy can't use Gears, shouldn't Zoro use just one sword? Or maybe no special techniques whatsoever? What does Zoro (with everything available) beating Luffy (can't use advanced application of his ability) prove?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

Zoro beats Base Luffy Mid-Diff
Zoro wins/loses/ties Gears 2/3 Luffy Extreme Diff
Zoro loses against Gear 4 Luffy Low Diff

In case one, this means that Luffy simply does not use any Gear technique, even when Zoro is using his entire skillset?
The second case is 'close fight'?

So Zoro can only do something when Luffy fights like a traditional anime villain?

 

[Pirate Queen]

But if Luffy can't use Gears, shouldn't Zoro use just one sword? Or maybe no special techniques whatsoever? What does Zoro (with everything available) beating Luffy (can't use advanced application of his ability) prove?

That's not the point being made lol. This is a simple versus thread. It's a simple question... Can a gearless Luffy beat Zoro. Yes or no?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

But if Luffy can't use Gears, shouldn't Zoro use just one sword? Or maybe no special techniques whatsoever? What does Zoro (with everything available) beating Luffy (can't use advanced application of his ability) prove?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

In case one, this means that Luffy simply does not use any Gear technique, even when Zoro is using his entire skillset?
The second case is 'close fight'?

So Zoro can only do something when Luffy fights like a traditional anime villain?

That's my opinion, yes

 

[Copy Panda]

And Zoro gets to use absolutely everything? Luffy has, haki? That's it?

 

[King Moe]

But if Luffy can't use Gears, shouldn't Zoro use just one sword? Or maybe no special techniques whatsoever? What does Zoro (with everything available) beating Luffy (can't use advanced application of his ability) prove?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

In case one, this means that Luffy simply does not use any Gear technique, even when Zoro is using his entire skillset?
The second case is 'close fight'?

So Zoro can only do something when Luffy fights like a traditional anime villain?

Pretty sure Luffy can handle him and you have good point on Zoro as he shouldn't use everything in his power if Luffy can't, so he got be push down as he can't use moves that he use only when he puts on Bandana.

Also we seen in Whiskey Peaks if they were to fight, Luffy would have more advantage hitting him more as Zoro could barely hurt him as just because he has swords, doesn't mean Luffy is helpless.

 

[Copy Panda]

How fast do we think Zoro is?

 

[Sachsenhesse]

How fast do we think Zoro is?

Speedblitzed Hody under water.

 

[King Moe]

How fast do we think Zoro is?

Hard to say, he is good at striking speed, but after Hawkins' fight, his reaction looks poor to deflect or think on how to counter, so kinda mixed in there.