Hangout Berserk General Discussion Thread

xi0

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I don't know how you can consider Berserk underground, it's a classic and sells more than the overwhelming majority of series in Japan. How many other manga get feature-film adaptations?
 

102jayday

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I would prefer shonen fans to stay there because most will come and will trash Guts and say things like "ooOoo Ichigo is way more cooler than Guts who has some medievil bow cannon on him" /Massive face palm.
But yes I wish Berserk Had more attention and more mature people reading it to give it the credit it deserves. I don't like people trashing on it -.-
 

Aazholh

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I don't know how you can consider Berserk underground, it's a classic and sells more than the overwhelming majority of series in Japan. How many other manga get feature-film adaptations?
I'm only comparing it to the popularity of shonen. You would have to admit that more people know about or heard of Naruto. Can't say that about Berserk.

I like that Berserk is meant for more sophisticated readers.
 

xi0

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I'm only comparing it to the popularity of shonen. You would have to admit that more people know about or heard of Naruto. Can't say that about Berserk.

I like that Berserk is meant for more sophisticated readers.
Naruto is an exception to the rule. So many series in Japan don't even sell a fractional amount of copies like One Piece or Naruto or even Berserk do.

It's meant for more mature readers, sophistication comes with being older and the demographic being just that.
 

crazy_horse1989

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I'm only comparing it to the popularity of shonen. You would have to admit that more people know about or heard of Naruto. Can't say that about Berserk.

I like that Berserk is meant for more sophisticated readers.
Yeah, I don't want people starting retarded threads like "Who do you think is stronger, BlinkityBlink or BlankityBlank?". Berserk readers have to have a little more wits than that, because they are challenged to think about the planes of existence and causality and the subsequent changes to them what with the merging caused by Griffith in recent events.
I think I'm fine with how Berserk is right now, I don't want all kinds of people who can't tell where their ass is reading Berserk and not understand a thing they just read. The thing is, in Japanese, this is seinen, so it uses a complicated script. The result? Perfect idiot-proof series for Japanese people. When you translate in other languages, like English for example, just about anyone can read it. This can be both a good thing thing and a bad thing.
 

Aazholh

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Yeah, I don't want people starting retarded threads like "Who do you think is stronger, BlinkityBlink or BlankityBlank?". Berserk readers have to have a little more wits than that, because they are challenged to think about the planes of existence and causality and the subsequent changes to them what with the merging caused by Griffith in recent events.
I think I'm fine with how Berserk is right now, I don't want all kinds of people who can't tell where their ass is reading Berserk and not understand a thing they just read. The thing is, in Japanese, this is seinen, so it uses a complicated script. The result? Perfect idiot-proof series for Japanese people. When you translate in other languages, like English for example, just about anyone can read it. This can be both a good thing thing and a bad thing.
I actually don't mind when younger people approach Berserk like that. It shows that they have interest in it. It's when they make comparisons between the two like "I can't wait for Guts' next power-up" or "What level do you think Guts is compared to Griffith?" or
"Berserk sure is boring, when are we gong to see some action?"

The worlds that these manga belong to are very different. And within Berserk, there's a lot more going on than just who is stronger and just how crazy or exaggerated a fight can get. There are a lot of tidbits of information about characters and events that are hidden in Berserk which means that Miura is going by an outline that he created from the very beginning.
 

xi0

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Fair enough, but obviously something is going to happen to Guts so he can stand up to Griffith. Yeah the Dragonslayer injured Slan, but I was under the impression that you can't really kill a Godhand on this plane of existence, and if Guts happened to defeat Griffith in his Earthly body, it wouldn't kill Femto.

So, that's about as close to a "powerup" talk you're going to get in Berserk then :rofl
 

Aazholh

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Fair enough, but obviously something is going to happen to Guts so he can stand up to Griffith. Yeah the Dragonslayer injured Slan, but I was under the impression that you can't really kill a Godhand on this plane of existence, and if Guts happened to defeat Griffith in his Earthly body, it wouldn't kill Femto.

So, that's about as close to a "powerup" talk you're going to get in Berserk then :rofl
Yeah, Slan was only driven back into the astral world. But now that both planes have been merged I don't think the godhand can do that anymore.
 

xi0

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Aazholh

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I always thought the Godhand exist in the Vortex, while what was merged was just the Physical and Interstitial worlds.

http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/universe/
I might be wrong, but I think the point from the Fantasia episode was to show that along with other mythical creatures the godhand are also in the "new world."

I don't remember there ever being a character or narration saying to what extent of the astral plane was merged. We don't know if it encompasses the vortex of souls or even all the way to the IoE. But again, we only see the godhand there at the end of the episode.
 

xi0

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I might be wrong, but I think the point from the Fantasia episode was to show that along with other mythical creatures the godhand are also in the "new world."

I don't remember there ever being a character or narration saying to what extent of the astral plane was merged. We don't know if it encompasses the vortex of souls or even all the way to the IoE. But again, we only see the godhand there at the end of the episode.
Well no, not specifics were mentioned yet you're right. But knowing that mystical creatures exist in the Interstice (Flora's Mansion and surroundings) and we know that the Godhand exist in the Vortex and appear in the Nexus during the Eclipse it's not farfetched to assume that they don't exist on the same plane as everyday life does. There would be two different versions of Griffith then, Reborn and Femto. We know that isn't the case because Griffith was the one who caused this merging and went back to his Human body after the planes merged.
 

GioGio

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I always thought the Godhand exist in the Vortex, while what was merged was just the Physical and Interstitial worlds.

http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/universe/
The way I understood it, the Physical/Mortal and the Astral/Nexus worlds are now one and the same. Griffith simply destroyed the barrier between both worlds, allowing not only the legendary creatures of the outermost layer to coexist with the mortals, but also the God Hand (as shown during the World Transformation), and they exist in the innermost layer of the Nexus nonetheless. Otherwise, that scene with each member of the God Hand manifesting itself in the physical world would be meaningless, isn't it?

So, if that's correct, it would also means that the Abyss and the human world are now separated only by one barrier, which may make it possible for Griffith to access the Ideal World and change the very nature of mankind itself, creating a new god in place of the Idea of Evil (and I think we'll definitely see something like the "Idea of Good" in Plato's Republic).

There would be two different versions of Griffith then, Reborn and Femto. We know that isn't the case because Griffith was the one who caused this merging and went back to his Human body after the planes merged.
But this new Griffith is simply Femto in the Moonlight Child's body, there's essentially no distinction between Griffith and Femto for two different versions of him to exist at the same time.
 

FetherMan

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I wonder, what Griffith's main goal is now that he has an established kingdom of his own. besides, world domination obviously.
 

xi0

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The way I understood it, the Physical/Mortal and the Astral/Nexus worlds are now one and the same. Griffith simply destroyed the barrier between both worlds, allowing not only the legendary creatures of the outermost layer to coexist with the mortals, but also the God Hand (as shown during the World Transformation), and they exist in the innermost layer of the Nexus nonetheless. Otherwise, that scene with each member of the God Hand manifesting itself in the physical world would be meaningless, isn't it?

So, if that's correct, it would also means that the Abyss and the human world are now separated only by one barrier, which may make it possible for Griffith to access the Ideal World and change the very nature of mankind itself, creating a new god in place of the Idea of Evil (and I think we'll definitely see something like the "Idea of Good" in Plato's Republic).
The evidence of the Godhand manifesting itself in the Real World isn't new though, since Conrad was seen manifested from rats in the plague-infested town, and Slan manifested herself from Troll guts in the Qliphoth. That all happened before the World Transformation. The reason Griffith became Femto before Skull Knight caused it was because he exists in two bodies.

So this could suggest that the Astral and Mortal worlds have merged, but we still haven't seen the Godhand in this new plane of existence like we've seen during the Eclipse or Incarnation Ceremony.

I guess they could take corporeal form now, but just haven't seen it yet...don't know.
 

Aazholh

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The way I understood it, the Physical/Mortal and the Astral/Nexus worlds are now one and the same. Griffith simply destroyed the barrier between both worlds, allowing not only the legendary creatures of the outermost layer to coexist with the mortals, but also the God Hand (as shown during the World Transformation), and they exist in the innermost layer of the Nexus nonetheless. Otherwise, that scene with each member of the God Hand manifesting itself in the physical world would be meaningless, isn't it?

So, if that's correct, it would also means that the Abyss and the human world are now separated only by one barrier, which may make it possible for Griffith to access the Ideal World and change the very nature of mankind itself, creating a new god in place of the Idea of Evil (and I think we'll definitely see something like the "Idea of Good" in Plato's Republic).
Although I believe that the godhand now exist exclusively within the new world, I'm still on the fence whether the merging as gone all the way to the Ideal World.

If so, yeah Griffith might have an ulterior motive to circumvent his master. That would be quite awesome. Might be the only way to destroy the IoE, if that is what Miura is planning on doing.

Based on that SK.net interview, he wasn't even sure if the IoE would make a reappearance. But if I were a master storyteller, I wouldn't divulge a major spoiler like that.
 

xi0

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Although I believe that the godhand now exist exclusively within the new world, I'm still on the fence whether the merging as gone all the way to the Ideal World.

If so, yeah Griffith might have an ulterior motive to circumvent his master. That would be quite awesome. Might be the only way to destroy the IoE, if that is what Miura is planning on doing.

Based on that SK.net interview, he wasn't even sure if the IoE would make a reappearance. But if I were a master storyteller, I wouldn't divulge a major spoiler like that.
Well he also wouldn't have removed Chapter 83 from v13 if it was something insignificant. I think he said he had it removed because he thought it revealed too much about the machinations of the world.
 

Aazholh

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Yeah, I think the IoE told Griffith he could do as he wished. I would like to know what Griffith was thinking when he learned that his creation and everything he had done was according to causality. That his very ambition wasn't even his, but the will of the IoE. I wonder if he would use this opportunity, not to redeem himself, but to try to undo the IoE's control of the world?
 

xi0

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Yeah, I think the IoE told Griffith he could do as he wished. I would like to know what Griffith was thinking when he learned that his creation and everything he had done was according to causality. That his very ambition wasn't even his, but the will of the IoE. I wonder if he would use this opportunity, not to redeem himself, but to try to undo the IoE's control of the world?
That's a really heady thing. I think it's too early to tell, considering how even more ambiguous Griffith has been since being reincarnated. We don't know anything about his motives, other than personal ones that he had before he used the Crimson Behelit.
 

Aazholh

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You're right, of course. When Griffith became Femto, I think his ability to feel guilt or love another person was thrown out the window. So his intentions are self-motivated to benefit him. But his desire to have a kingdom and everyone to be equal doesn't compare to the power that he already has. So it's conceivable he's up to something else. Although now that he shares the same body as Guts' son will probably complicate his plans.
 

xi0

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Yeah, he knew what he was doing when he took Casca. He had to have known this was a possibility.

The real question is what is the Moonlight Child's true nature.
 
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