Discussion Best Defense, Endurance, Durability - Finished

[Demon Hunter]

I won over @Jko

he can't beat me

 

[grey matter]

Noooooo not good. He endured an FDK Demolition fist. Most would've been dead by that attack. He needs to be higher.


Listen guys. I say , those of you who agree Jacob should be placed higher all give him 10 points in the next competition and ensure him a place in the top 5. Partly for compensation because he was placed so low and p̶a̶r̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶i̶s̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶ ̶A̶x̶i̶o̶m̶u̶s̶̶.

My fams will help me. @Jean Grey @grey matter @Jko @Kurumi Tokisaki
@August_Lightning

#MakingStathamGreatAgain

I'll give Statham boi a troll vote

 

[Ebony Maw]

The reason I'm thinking that Jura isn't totally powercrept is because Makarov is still seen in high regards. And I see Jura in the same level as Makarov.

The issue with that reasoning is that Makarov is clearly vastly outdated. Dude got one-shot by FDK Demo Fist - so Makarov, and thus Jura by your logic, is at best on-par with Jacob.

Serena is just that strong. The fact that he overwhelmed base team Natsu with just a fraction of his power speaks for itself,

While that feat looks impressive, it doesn't really mean all that much since it didn't cause them any lasting damage. It appeared almost entirely superficial.

and he made Gildarts use his finisher move series.

This is fair enough but it doesn't really help your argument of Jura being durable in comparison to Kyria.

Just his headbutt with Gildarts blew away team Natsu and made them comment on the magic power (and they were already used to the 'typical' Spriggan magic power). All this from a historia.
Of Course Jura got rekt by the original.

Personally this just seems like typical Alvarez hype - lets face it, had any of Team Natsu (barring Lucy/Wendy) gotten slightly serious they would have beat Hist Serena. Them wanking his MP as a Historia is the only real bit that might not be superficial since we know all the S12 shit on basically every other non-S12 character. Hell, even then that's dubious since Gildarts calls him a small fry in the very next chapter.

Btw there's two things to considering regarding the headbutt scene:

1) The character that makes the "What Magic Power!" comment is Carla, not someone who has formidable Magic Power themselves
2) Even if that weren't the case, that is the product of both Hist Serena and Gildarts' attacks clashing

Mard took negligible damage from anything that's not devil Slayer spell. Including POF + DF Natsu, and CSK (whose attacks were destroying mountain ranges, Mard just used his energy shield casually in base).

IIRC Mard never tanked any of CSK's attacks, he evaded them up until CSK petrified him.

Mard is still definitely impressive considering he tanked attacks from DF Natsu but I just question how it marks up to current FT power levels. The difference between Tartaros and Alvarez power levels is insane, like DF Natsu went from not being able to one-shot Mard to outright incinerating FH Zeref, a literal immortal. Against most Alvarez characters Mard's durability is still likely impressive, but not when compared to the offensive output the top tiers of Alvarez and beyond can put out. Would still probably be enough to warrant him being in the top 15 though.

Mard was waay above anyone in that arc. He was like the August of the arc, nobody could touch him (except for Gray with his Slayer powers).

Like I said above, the difference in offensive output during Tartaros compared to Alvarez (and beyond) is just too much IMO.

And now to that, add the fact that he can even regenerate (as he did when Gray damaged him, the entire reason why tartarus could revive demons was because of his powers as mentioned by them). He's an absolute tank.
It's implied that full power Mard = full power CSK, maybe once we see CSK at full power (if) we'll know how strong Mard truly was.

Not sure about Mard = full power CSK. I mean IIRC CSK scaled to how much MP the caster had when he was summoned, and Lucy was exhausted. Yet CSK was still outputting multi-mountain levels of offence that Mard never chose to tank (not that I'd expect any characters besides God tiers to tank that lmao).

Laxus isn't shitting on Serena, unless you think Laxus is shitting on Alverez arc Gildarts. I said more of Serena in my first para too.
I see Alverez Gildarts > current Laxus, and same applies to Serena.

This is probably the crux of our differences tbh because I have RL Laxus as being >= Gildarts.

Even still, Laxus should absolutely crap on Serena's offence. For one we know Serena had roughly the same amount of MP as the other 'regular' Spriggans, and what happened when they tried their spells met Laxus'? In the case of Ajeel his Sands of Death was completely dispersed by a nameless, casual looking bolt. Wahl? His bullets were disintegrated before they could hit Laxus, and they were destroyed by one of Laxus' seemingly weakest spells.

The fact that Laxus outright killed Wahl with one spell and was hyped to be able to kill Ajeel with one unnamed spell should make the disparity between them clear. Serena didn't even manage to kill any of the GOI despite having already stomped them once casually and then hitting them with 3 DS attacks. Now the fourth probably would have killed the GOI but that hardly matters. At the end of the day none of the GOI should be as durable as Wahl, so Serena failing to kill them with 3 DS spells vs Laxus outright one-shot killing Wahl is a concrete example of Laxus' offensive output being >> than Serena's.

So ultimately Jura shouldn't even be near Wahl in terms of durability/tankiness, let alone Kyria who took a Secret Art and 'only' got KO'd.

Larcade's magic power is said to be comparable to August and Eileen.

That's not how I interpreted Mavis' words at all:

Spoiler

Notice how August gets called the strongest Spriggan of them all, how she notes Irene's obscene power... and only comments on the nature of Larcade's Magic.

Sure, his physical stats are trash (relative to his magic power, the typical Spriggan with high magic power and hax); but it was good enough to fodderize Kagura's archenemy. At least it's something. It's good enough to put both Larcade and Sting above Kyria who basically got fodderized by Laxus who barely moved from where he stood.

The Archenemy feat is a solid point, but not enough to push Larcade above Kyria when it comes to tankiness. We're talking about the same Kyria that could take a hit from Erza's Belserion sword and still feel up to fighting, and the same Kyria that lasted a small skirmish with Laxus, not going down until Laxus used a Secret Art.

I think we can both agree that 100YQ Roaring Thunder is at least >= WSD Rough Silk, right? If so I don't see how you can reason that Larcade is more tanky, since while he did tank a couple of hits prior to WSD Rough Silk, likewise Kyria tanked at least a few attacks from Laxus before she was beat via Roaring Thunder. And since Laxus should be > WSDM Sting at the very least, it stands to reason that Kyria's durability should be a tier better than Larcade's at the very least.

As for Sting's 'tankiness' being better than Kyria's... I mean, I wish that were the case but from what feats he has I'm just not seeing it. Like, the most he really tanked against Larcade was a few hits from his cross, outside of that the whole battle was Sting trying to resist his hax Magic. There's just nothing out there to say Laxus wouldn't body WSDM Sting harder than he bodied Kyria IMO.

None of them killed Erza, it? To be completely honest, Laxus hype train went down for me from that fight. Erza struggled against Ajeel and was beaten by three historia from Neinhart. But she, albeit with external buffs, managed to give my boi extreme diff.
I was elated that he won, just cause she's fucking Erza, the queen of bullshit; but broadly speaking I was disappointed.

When Erza fought Ajeel she was fighting with handicaps though. For one she couldn't Requip for a portion of the battle because of Marin's Spatial Magic still affecting her, and then you have to consider that Ajeel is one of her worst match ups due to his Sand Body. As for Neinhart, considering how she later performed against Irene her feats in Hargeon seem like outliers. This is the same Erza that later intercepted attacks from E.N.D and bloodlusted DeS Gray and didn't flinch, the same Erza that took blast after blast from Irene and only got properly hurt when she transformed into a Dragon. Looking back on it, three outdated as hell characters giving Erza that much trouble is ridiculous.

Laxus being pushed into RL to beat Erza isn't a mark against Laxus, rather its another crazy good durability and endurance feat for Erza. Overall your boi has crazy offence, which is exactly why I feel Kyria was massively underrated here. I mean, I'm willing to bet that a huge reason Erza got so far in this ranking is because of her recent fight, I know that was a massive factor in how highly I rated her. And its for that same reason I rate Kyria so high, since unlike Spriggans who were getting one-shot killed (or were hyped to be one-shot killed) by Laxus, Kyria only got KO'd by his Secret Art, and that was already after taking some hits off-panel.

When you compare that to the likes of Jura, Wahl, Sting, etc. they just don't have the feats to say they could take it as 'well' as she did.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Look at my boy @Ebony Maw hyping Kiria and Laxus even though he isn't his big fan

I have faith that when Laxus shows off his gentle side when he gets a girl or a cat to cuddle so he won't be too macho and GOAT, @Ebony Maw is gonna join the Holy Church of the Lightning Dragon

 

[grey matter]

The issue with that reasoning is that Makarov is clearly vastly outdated. Dude got one-shot by FDK Demo Fist - so Makarov, and thus Jura by your logic, is at best on-par with Jacob.

While that feat looks impressive, it doesn't really mean all that much since it didn't cause them any lasting damage. It appeared almost entirely superficial.

This is fair enough but it doesn't really help your argument of Jura being durable in comparison to Kyria.

Personally this just seems like typical Alvarez hype - lets face it, had any of Team Natsu (barring Lucy/Wendy) gotten slightly serious they would have beat Hist Serena. Them wanking his MP as a Historia is the only real bit that might not be superficial since we know all the S12 shit on basically every other non-S12 character. Hell, even then that's dubious since Gildarts calls him a small fry in the very next chapter.

Btw there's two things to considering regarding the headbutt scene:

1) The character that makes the "What Magic Power!" comment is Carla, not someone who has formidable Magic Power themselves
2) Even if that weren't the case, that is the product of both Hist Serena and Gildarts' attacks clashing

IIRC Mard never tanked any of CSK's attacks, he evaded them up until CSK petrified him.

Mard is still definitely impressive considering he tanked attacks from DF Natsu but I just question how it marks up to current FT power levels. The difference between Tartaros and Alvarez power levels is insane, like DF Natsu went from not being able to one-shot Mard to outright incinerating FH Zeref, a literal immortal. Against most Alvarez characters Mard's durability is still likely impressive, but not when compared to the offensive output the top tiers of Alvarez and beyond can put out. Would still probably be enough to warrant him being in the top 15 though.

Like I said above, the difference in offensive output during Tartaros compared to Alvarez (and beyond) is just too much IMO.

Not sure about Mard = full power CSK. I mean IIRC CSK scaled to how much MP the caster had when he was summoned, and Lucy was exhausted. Yet CSK was still outputting multi-mountain levels of offence that Mard never chose to tank (not that I'd expect any characters besides God tiers to tank that lmao).

This is probably the crux of our differences tbh because I have RL Laxus as being >= Gildarts.

Even still, Laxus should absolutely crap on Serena's offence. For one we know Serena had roughly the same amount of MP as the other 'regular' Spriggans, and what happened when they tried their spells met Laxus'? In the case of Ajeel his Sands of Death was completely dispersed by a nameless, casual looking bolt. Wahl? His bullets were disintegrated before they could hit Laxus, and they were destroyed by one of Laxus' seemingly weakest spells.

The fact that Laxus outright killed Wahl with one spell and was hyped to be able to kill Ajeel with one unnamed spell should make the disparity between them clear. Serena didn't even manage to kill any of the GOI despite having already stomped them once casually and then hitting them with 3 DS attacks. Now the fourth probably would have killed the GOI but that hardly matters. At the end of the day none of the GOI should be as durable as Wahl, so Serena failing to kill them with 3 DS spells vs Laxus outright one-shot killing Wahl is a concrete example of Laxus' offensive output being >> than Serena's.

So ultimately Jura shouldn't even be near Wahl in terms of durability/tankiness, let alone Kyria who took a Secret Art and 'only' got KO'd.

That's not how I interpreted Mavis' words at all:

Spoiler

Notice how August gets called the strongest Spriggan of them all, how she notes Irene's obscene power... and only comments on the nature of Larcade's Magic.

The Archenemy feat is a solid point, but not enough to push Larcade above Kyria when it comes to tankiness. We're talking about the same Kyria that could take a hit from Erza's Belserion sword and still feel up to fighting, and the same Kyria that lasted a small skirmish with Laxus, not going down until Laxus used a Secret Art.

I think we can both agree that 100YQ Roaring Thunder is at least >= WSD Rough Silk, right? If so I don't see how you can reason that Larcade is more tanky, since while he did tank a couple of hits prior to WSD Rough Silk, likewise Kyria tanked at least a few attacks from Laxus before she was beat via Roaring Thunder. And since Laxus should be > WSDM Sting at the very least, it stands to reason that Kyria's durability should be a tier better than Larcade's at the very least.

As for Sting's 'tankiness' being better than Kyria's... I mean, I wish that were the case but from what feats he has I'm just not seeing it. Like, the most he really tanked against Larcade was a few hits from his cross, outside of that the whole battle was Sting trying to resist his hax Magic. There's just nothing out there to say Laxus wouldn't body WSDM Sting harder than he bodied Kyria IMO.

When Erza fought Ajeel she was fighting with handicaps though. For one she couldn't Requip for a portion of the battle because of Marin's Spatial Magic still affecting her, and then you have to consider that Ajeel is one of her worst match ups due to his Sand Body. As for Neinhart, considering how she later performed against Irene her feats in Hargeon seem like outliers. This is the same Erza that later intercepted attacks from E.N.D and bloodlusted DeS Gray and didn't flinch, the same Erza that took blast after blast from Irene and only got properly hurt when she transformed into a Dragon. Looking back on it, three outdated as hell characters giving Erza that much trouble is ridiculous.

Laxus being pushed into RL to beat Erza isn't a mark against Laxus, rather its another crazy good durability and endurance feat for Erza. Overall your boi has crazy offence, which is exactly why I feel Kyria was massively underrated here. I mean, I'm willing to bet that a huge reason Erza got so far in this ranking is because of her recent fight, I know that was a massive factor in how highly I rated her. And its for that same reason I rate Kyria so high, since unlike Spriggans who were getting one-shot killed (or were hyped to be one-shot killed) by Laxus, Kyria only got KO'd by his Secret Art, and that was already after taking some hits off-panel.

When you compare that to the likes of Jura, Wahl, Sting, etc. they just don't have the feats to say they could take it as 'well' as she did.

God Serena was hyped to be on Gildarts' level at full strength. I know it's hype, but it doesn't have any feats that debunk it; if anything his feats against 3 GOI & Jura, and against base team Natsu and Gildarts with a fraction of his powers, kinda hints to that. Gildarts would probably know the ext a nds of his powers and wondered who would've won if Serena was at full power. Gildarts didn't just outright one shot his historia either, he had to use his finishing move for that.
Serena is actually >> other normal Spriggans. The statement that Spriggans are equal to Serena from the GOI was completely debunked in their fight with Serena himself, they had no idea how strong Serena was (the hype of Spriggans initially pretty much just came from him tbh). They thought they stood a chance, but was fodderized in his base, and then in his DS form. They commented on having no idea about how strong he actually was.
As for historia, Erza commented on his powers as well, not just Wendy and Juvia.

Mard actually did tank a few of CSK's attacks, and dodged some.
He used some form of energy shield whenever CSK's attacks hit him.
The CSK which was summoned there was bound to Lucy, which is why Mard just casually stayed in his base. But it's implied that at full power, they're matched, because they have a rivalry and have faced each other before.
Mard says he hasn't used his etherious a long time, when he transformed after facing Gray.....well who did he use it against? It's heavily implied that it's against CSK in the past.

Sting, even with buffs and all, had an extreme diff against Larcade. The silk are was just the finisher, but lots of stuff happened before that, which lead to it.
Kiria was just fodderized casually by Laxus. He just kept punching her down casually, from where he stood and put her down with a secret art. There is a difference.
Also, Laxus never had KILLING INTENT versus Kyria. He just wanted to put her down for good. But, he wanted to kill Wahl (also Wahl malfunctioned for some reason and just stood there because he thought he could tank, instead of dodging). I'm pretty sure that he held back his attack against Kyria, he put just enough so that she would get knocked out but not get killed.

Against Ajeel, Erza was handicapped my Marin only when she was already chocked by Ajeel. But then she got help from Bisca anyway. So it kinda evens out. She was almost killed by Ajeel as well.
I don't know how you can say that Neinhart vs Erza was outlier, I'm pretty sure that the historia being powered up by Spriggan tier magic power had something to do with Erza struggling against them.
She didn't casually take Natsu's and Gray's attacks. Natsu and Gray were trading blows, but just blocking it almost crushed both of her arms (one was burned to crisp, the other cracked with cold). In before, she fought Eileen later, its implied that Wendy healed her arms once the team met - she didn't have that burn or those cracks when she faced Eileen; Wendy's healing is fucking broken, retarded tbh
As for Eileen, I see her in a similar light to Larcade. Has magic power is comparable (or may very well be above) to August, but has mediocre stats. It's understandable from the nature of her magic, it's not that of a front line mage. Her true strength is being behind the front lines and enchanting even fodder soldiers to decent levels. If not for a high AOE spell like law, there might have suffered serious setback there.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2020 ---

Look at my boy @Ebony Maw hyping Kiria and Laxus even though he isn't his big fan

I have faith that when Laxus shows off his gentle side when he gets a girl or a cat to cuddle so he won't be too macho and GOAT, @Ebony Maw is gonna join the Holy Church of the Lightning Dragon

The guy is gonna lose me if he becomes any more gentle lol.
His transformation from Chad mode to dad mode......let's say I'm not really happy with that lol. Fantasia and Tenrou Laxus were absolute greatness though

 

[Jko]

Jellal was still ready to face off against Laxus

Spoiler

hey don't mistake greatness (Kratos) with decent (Lucy)

still funny though

So was Tempester and Kiria. Didn't stop them from getting a big fat L.

Lucy is the most developed character in the series and she doesn't get any asspulls to win so she is greatness

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2020 ---

I won over @Jko

he can't beat me

 

[Demon Hunter]

So was Tempester and Kiria. Didn't stop them from getting a big fat L.

Jellal isn't them

Lucy is the most developed character in the series and she doesn't get any asspulls to win so she is greatness

Power wise, sure.

Y'all hating on Jellal will see the light when he one shots those Black Knights whatever their name is with GC

 

[Ramen]

Jellal isn't them

Lol Jellal is worse

 

[Demon Hunter]

Lol Jellal is worse

 

[Jko]

Jellal isn't them


Power wise, sure.



Y'all hating on Jellal will see the light when he one shots those Black Knights whatever their name is with GC

Who got beat up by Fodder Seis and who was easily tanking a beating from LFD and oneshotted the entire Rajinshuu? Who got oneshotted by Neinheart and who took a hit from Laxus and Erza?

And then he'll tarnish the BDSK hype. Neinheart = Jellal > BDSK

 

[Demon Hunter]

Who got beat up by Fodder Seis and who was easily tanking a beating from LFD and oneshotted the entire Rajinshuu? Who got oneshotted by Neinheart and who took a hit from Laxus and Erza?

And then he'll tarnish the BDSK hype. Neinheart = Jellal > BDSK

Tbf that was a surprise attack. Do you really think Rajinshuu > OS

BDSK > DE

If Jellal beats one then he is top. He already is

 

[Ramen]

Tbf that was a surprise attack. Do you really think Rajinshuu > OS

BDSK > DE

If Jellal beats one then he is top. He already is

If Jellal beats one, he will put his name in the "Maybe Laxus Rival" Category. But let's be honest he won't......

 

[Jko]

Tbf that was a surprise attack. Do you really think Rajinshuu >OS

That's true, but they got destroyed faster and harder than when Rusty was beating on them while they had no magic and this was after their three months of training. Freed and Bixlow were capable of smacking around Rustyrose before they got their power sapped. Gajeel got beat up by the subordinates of the 7kin lol. 7kin >> OS so yeah Rajinshuu are stronger than OS. Even currently they have way better feats than OS lol.

 

[grey matter]

That's true, but they got destroyed faster and harder than when Rusty was beating on them while they had no magic and this was after their three months of training. Freed and Bixlow were capable of smacking around Rustyrose before they got their power sapped. Gajeel got beat up by the subordinates of the 7kin lol. 7kin >> OS so yeah Rajinshuu are stronger than OS. Even currently they have way better feats than OS lol.

Hey, you're talking shit of my bois OS
You actually think OS is fodder?

Even in x784, 7 kin wasn't >> OS, Maybe >> Angel, Hoteye and Racer, not Midnight and Cobra. Only Ultear, Zancrow and Azuma were stronger than them. Don't know where you got that from lol. There was barely any powerups for our main cast from OS arc to Tenrou arc.

They got powerup in Zentopia arc, mashima said it's canon but couldn't fit it in the main manga.
That's why Cobra doesn't have an eye, Angel's magic changed etc

Also, we joke around Neinhart fodderizing Jellal.....sure, but you actually think he got one shot?
He barely had injuries and became unconscious only because of drowning. Once he got back up, he moved around like nothing happened. Moreover, the only reason he even got to that position was because Kagura couldn't react to Neinhart's attack and he had to take it instead of her.
Neinhart didn't wreck him, August actually did. Jellal was visibly heavily injured, and wasn't able to move from where August stomped his head, for a while.
Well, I don't know if it's troll or not lmao, if then my bad. We joke around about Zeref being fodder too, not sure how many here take it literally.

 

[Demon Hunter]

That's true, but they got destroyed faster and harder than when Rusty was beating on them while they had no magic and this was after their three months of training. Freed and Bixlow were capable of smacking around Rustyrose before they got their power sapped. Gajeel got beat up by the subordinates of the 7kin lol. 7kin >> OS so yeah Rajinshuu are stronger than OS. Even currently they have way better feats than OS lol.

Ah so that's where we are...

I guess you leave me no choice

I wanted to protect you from this because you were one of us once but I cannot tolerate this Jellal downplay anymore

It's time to pull out my trump card

Spoiler

@Skibbie @Xaos sama at him!!!

I'm sorry for this @Jko and good luck

 

[grey matter]

Ah so that's where we are...

I guess you leave me no choice

I wanted to protect you from this because you were one of us once but I cannot tolerate this Jellal downplay anymore

It's time to pull out my trump card

Spoiler

@Skibbie @Xaos sama at him!!!

I'm sorry for this @Jko and good luck

lmao, who're they

 

[Demon Hunter]

lmao, who're they

You don't want to know

 

[Ramen]

You don't want to know

Dw I'll be here for my boi @Jko when the Jellal fan bus comes

 

[Jko]

Ah so that's where we are...

I guess you leave me no choice

I wanted to protect you from this because you were one of us once but I cannot tolerate this Jellal downplay anymore

It's time to pull out my trump card

Spoiler

@Skibbie @Xaos sama at him!!!

I'm sorry for this @Jko and good luck

Once they start inevitably start downplaying Laxus then I'll have the Laxus alliance by my side. And then you'll see this a war you should have never sought this war. It maybe very well be mutual destruction.

But, I got my homeboi @August_Lightning as back up! So I am ready for the smoke.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2020 ---

Hey, you're talking shit of my bois OS
You actually think OS is fodder?

Even in x784, 7 kin wasn't >> OS, Maybe >> Angel, Hoteye and Racer, not Midnight and Cobra. Only Ultear, Zancrow and Azuma were stronger than them. Don't know where you got that from lol. There was barely any powerups for our main cast from OS arc to Tenrou arc.

They got powerup in Zentopia arc, mashima said it's canon but couldn't fit it in the main manga.
That's why Cobra doesn't have an eye, Angel's magic changed etc

Also, we joke around Neinhart fodderizing Jellal.....sure, but you actually think he got one shot?
He barely had injuries and became unconscious only because of drowning. Once he got back up, he moved around like nothing happened. Moreover, the only reason he even got to that position was because Kagura couldn't react to Neinhart's attack and he had to take it instead of her.
Neinhart didn't wreck him, August actually did. Jellal was visibly heavily injured, and wasn't able to move from where August stomped his head, for a while.
Well, I don't know if it's troll or not lmao, if then my bad. We joke around about Zeref being fodder too, not sure how many here take it literally.

Bro their subordinates were able to clap Gajeel. They were greater than OS by a lot lol. They were getting boosted pretty much every arc at that point. I'm pretty sure I noted a strength gap between each arc for them back in the day. Only high tiers like Laxus, Erza, Makarov, Gild and Mira were stagnant in power. Erza pretty much gave him three hits and he was done.

Mashima never said the Zentopia arc was canon and the events in the manga had nothing to do woth what happened in the anime. They weren't even noted to be involved in the Z incident and neither was OS. Plus they lost all their wishes which gave them boosts at the end of the arc.

Even if you want to use the Z incident then that would mean pretty much nothing as they were beaten by Tenrou level FT. Max matched Tenrou Natsu and got oneshotted by Base SO Natsu who was joking around therefore Natsu can oneshot OS even from the Z arc lol.

The same can be said for Neinheart after he was hit by GC lol. He made it back to FT with no problem and that is with magic sealing cuffs on. And he was most likely bound by sealing cuffs. Neinheart was still capable of oneshotting and Jellal defended against it unlike Neinheart who literally stood there to take a hit.

August held back and even the likes of Cana were tanking hits from a holding back August. It's not really a feat to get beat up by August lol.

His durability has been shoddy for awhile.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Look at my boy @Ebony Maw hyping Kiria and Laxus even though he isn't his big fan

I have faith that when Laxus shows off his gentle side when he gets a girl or a cat to cuddle so he won't be too macho and GOAT, @Ebony Maw is gonna join the Holy Church of the Lightning Dragon

Sorry fam, I'm already the Archbishop of the Holy Church of Jellal.

Spoiler

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

God Serena was hyped to be on Gildarts' level at full strength. I know it's hype, but it doesn't have any feats that debunk it; if anything his feats against 3 GOI & Jura, and against base team Natsu and Gildarts with a fraction of his powers, kinda hints to that.

Eh, Serena is always hard to debate due to how Hiro wasted him. In the scans I have access to though Gildarts never hypes him by saying him and alive Goddy would be on the same level, he just says Serena would be a "formidable Mage" and "a force to be reckoned with":

Spoiler

Its still decent hype but not hype that justifies him being seen as on Gildarts' tier.

Gildarts would probably know the ext a nds of his powers and wondered who would've won if Serena was at full power.

Shouldn't Gildarts basically only know of Serena through hype? By the sounds of it he's never seen Serena fight. At which point Gildarts is either hyping him based off his Magic Power, which we now know doesn't mean much in the big picture, or he was going off reputation, which likewise we now know after the GOI means almost nothing.

Spoiler: Gildarts' comment to Serena about the fight he wanted

Gildarts didn't just outright one shot his historia either, he had to use his finishing move for that.

While definitely a decent feat, I took that more as Gildarts wanting to finish Serena quickly because they were in a rush:

Spoiler

Serena is actually >> other normal Spriggans. The statement that Spriggans are equal to Serena from the GOI was completely debunked in their fight with Serena himself, they had no idea how strong Serena was (the hype of Spriggans initially pretty much just came from him tbh).

Serena is definitely not >> all of the other normal S12's. The likes of Ajeel, Invel and Neinhart? I'd agree with that. But Jacob, Brandish, Wahl and Bradman should all be close to him or on his level, and Brandish has shown she can trap S12's in Age Seal so she should definitely be > Serena.

That is unless you mean in raw firepower. In that case I'd argue Wahl >= to Serena but otherwise, agreed.

As for saying Serena's better due to untrustworthy GOI hype, its a decent point but undercut by Makarov:

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Makarov makes no comment about Serena being particularly exceptional. While Makarov himself could be an unreliable source of info, its still yet another occasion where Goddy is seemingly = to the other S12. And considering he has only one (highly unquantifiable) feat, which is him stomping characters that are near featless, I think this is one of the few times where the hype may have been correct (at least in that Goddy = regular S12).

As for historia, Erza commented on his powers as well, not just Wendy and Juvia.

Problem is that the statement is vague as hell and no one even really gets damaged. Like, its barely hurting the likes of Juvia and Lucy.

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Given the context, I find it more likely Erza is commenting on Serena using multiple DS elements at the same time.

Mard actually did tank a few of CSK's attacks, and dodged some.
He used some form of energy shield whenever CSK's attacks hit him.
The CSK which was summoned there was bound to Lucy, which is why Mard just casually stayed in his base. But it's implied that at full power, they're matched, because they have a rivalry and have faced each other before.
Mard says he hasn't used his etherious a long time, when he transformed after facing Gray.....well who did he use it against? It's heavily implied that it's against CSK in the past.

Would you mind posting some scans of Mard tanking CSK's attacks? I remember him dodging all of them rather than tanking.

As for their rivalry, I accept that there is one and that the last time they fought they were almost certainly equal. However, all that means is that whoever summoned CSK in the past had enough MP to scale CSK to Etherious Mard. Even if that isn't the case and it turns out CSK = Etherious Mard, it still doesn't mean much in terms of tankiness unless we know Etherious Mard tanked attacks from him. Unless I've overlooked something (which to be fair I easily could of), I just think its too much of an assumption to think Etherious Mard could tank CSK's attacks.

Sting, even with buffs and all, had an extreme diff against Larcade. The silk are was just the finisher, but lots of stuff happened before that, which lead to it.

Larcade only ate attacks from Kagura and Sting prior to Rough Silk. Like, he blocked Archenemy with ease and following that the only attacks he tanked were Holy Ray, Holy Nova and then a blast from WSD Sting. That isn't bad but the first two spells came from base Sting, and the latter was nameless. Even if you want to say that Larcade is tanking named spells better than Kyria tanked unnamed spells, you have to remember that one unnamed punch from Laxus completely broke Erza's anti-lightning armour and had her screaming in pain:

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If Larcade was taken down by that assault from Sting, no way in hell would he tank a barrage of unnamed punches from Laxus, let alone his Secret Art.

Kiria was just fodderized casually by Laxus. He just kept punching her down casually, from where he stood and put her down with a secret art. There is a difference.

There is a difference but this is just lowballing Kyria.

The reason Sting lasted so long against Larcade is because Larcade relies on hax. So long as Sting could get around said hax he could put up a fight because Larcade isn't someone that fights with overwhelming power. Hell when Sting was affected by Hunger, Larcade was battering him with his cross. Let me repeat that - Sting was getting seriously hurt by a cross. If Sting's durability is like that, there's no way he's comparing to Kyria who tanked multiple attacks from Laxus and 'only' got KO'd by his Secret Art.

Also, Laxus never had KILLING INTENT versus Kyria. He just wanted to put her down for good. But, he wanted to kill Wahl (also Wahl malfunctioned for some reason and just stood there because he thought he could tank, instead of dodging). I'm pretty sure that he held back his attack against Kyria, he put just enough so that she would get knocked out but not get killed.

Killing intent is present against Kyria by Laxus' own admission:

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Also Wahl deciding to tank it was a reasonable action, Laxus just happened to gain Red Lightning in that moment and Wahl couldn't analyse it because... reasons.

Against Ajeel, Erza was handicapped my Marin only when she was already chocked by Ajeel. But then she got help from Bisca anyway. So it kinda evens out. She was almost killed by Ajeel as well.

That isn't how it happened with Marin. Erza started being handicapped by Marin when Ajeel surrounded her with sand the first time:

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The second Marin's Spatial Magic stopped restricting Erza she got in a major hit. So Erza was actually free to use her Requip when Ajeel was choking her, hence her using Nakagami to signal to Bisca.

Keep in mind that Ajeel also had another huge advantage over her in his intangibility. Had Ajeel not been intangible she could have been damaging him from the very start. Intangibility and Marin's interference are the only reasons that fight went on for so long, otherwise Erza could have used Nakagami long before he used Sand World.

I don't know how you can say that Neinhart vs Erza was outlier, I'm pretty sure that the historia being powered up by Spriggan tier magic power had something to do with Erza struggling against them.

I say that its a near outlier because Erza has tanked and endured far worse and the Historias themselves all mention how Erza isn't on form:

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Seriously, if 100YQ Erza can give Laxus an extreme-diff match then either this is an outlier or Erza has grown far more powerful than she was in Alvarez. In which case using this feat against the Historias is pointless.

She didn't casually take Natsu's and Gray's attacks. Natsu and Gray were trading blows, but just blocking it almost crushed both of her arms (one was burned to crisp, the other cracked with cold). In before, she fought Eileen later, its implied that Wendy healed her arms once the team met - she didn't have that burn or those cracks when she faced Eileen; Wendy's healing is fucking broken, retarded tbh

Okay I was being too liberal saying she 'casually' took those attacks. Still, she caught those attacks at the same time and seemed more hurt by the fact that they were fighting than the actual damage she suffered.

And agreed on Wendy's healing lmfao.

As for Eileen, I see her in a similar light to Larcade. Has magic power is comparable (or may very well be above) to August, but has mediocre stats.It's understandable from the nature of her magic, it's not that of a front line mage. Her true strength is being behind the front lines and enchanting even fodder soldiers to decent levels. If not for a high AOE spell like law, there might have suffered serious setback there.

I don't want to sound like a douche, I'm being entirely genuine here when I ask this, but why are we talking about Irene?