Question best speed feats?

Demonspeed

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It's amusing to see a discussion about King's speed when Helbram said himself that King was way too fast for a Fairy here.

Have we seen anything to suggest that chasteifol increase king's speed?
A weapon doesn't always mean increase in speed..
Gowther has his and is slow
Diane ain't getting any faster lugging hers around
Merlin doesn't seem to gain a speed boost
Meliodas got a speed. Boost from his powers not from his weapon...

Saying ban doesn't have a weapon doesn't justify putting him above king in speed...
yes ban has speed but in the fights between them king has she on more ability to dodge ban that ban has shown ability to dodge king...
Ban has to be prepared before he can dodge chasteifol
None of the Sins are slow, and I don't see how Ban's weapon could make him faster. But in terms of movement speed King has not shown that he is faster than Ban, who is IMO the fastest Sin. Still, the fact that Ban lacks his weapon is important there, there is no way a King with Chastiefol could lose against a Ban without Courechouse, so it's natural for Ban to be inferior. King might have faster attacks because he was using his ST but he has no speed feats putting him above Ban.
 

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Incorrect. This was actually a topic on this forum for a bit, but King's Sacred Treasure doesn't increase any of his powers, in fact, it's the other way around. King's Disaster is what pulls out the power from Chastiefol. His sacred treasure does not increase his telekinetic abilities. Chastiefol is made from the Sacred Tree of the Fairy Realm and Disaster, as explained in the chapter before last, has the ability to control the natural state of organic matter. Chastiefol is organic, the tree it comes from has a number of defensive and offensive qualities, and Disaster has the ability to manipulate organic things in a number of way. Aside from moving the Spear from one place to another, his telekinetic abilities have nothing to do with his weapon and vice versa.
No but what I'm essential saying is that Sloth is unable to unleash his full power unless he activates his secret treasure & the same goes for the other SINs (that's why I referenced chapter 49). The treasures can be likened to keys that unlocks ones capacity, thereby accentuating their combat abilities.
 

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There are a few weird things regarding how weapons interact with speed and overall physical capacity. If we consider guila and jericho against the unarmed sins it kinda seemed like the two of them were much faster and stronger than the sins. However once king appeared or the sins started using weapons even significantly more powerful knigths than guila or jericho started having trouble with the sin's sheer speed. Most relevant example would be meliodas. He went from not being able to land a lone hit on guila to keeping up, if not best, with 3 GHK class fighters. Another interesting bit is that arthur made a point of how crazy mel's speed was against the albion and the only difference from before was him holding the sacred treasure. I am thinking that perhaps just holding a weapon affects physical capacity, speed and even enchantment power. Otherwise it makes little sense that guila ever landed a hit on mel at all.
 

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There are a few weird things regarding how weapons interact with speed and overall physical capacity. If we consider guila and jericho against the unarmed sins it kinda seemed like the two of them were much faster and stronger than the sins. However once king appeared or the sins started using weapons even significantly more powerful knigths than guila or jericho started having trouble with the sin's sheer speed. Most relevant example would be meliodas. He went from not being able to land a lone hit on guila to keeping up, if not best, with 3 GHK class fighters. Another interesting bit is that arthur made a point of how crazy mel's speed was against the albion and the only difference from before was him holding the sacred treasure. I am thinking that perhaps just holding a weapon affects physical capacity, speed and even enchantment power. Otherwise it makes little sense that guila ever landed a hit on mel at all.
That would be weird though. Just holding a weapon, any old weapon, just gives them an increase in speed like that? I'd understand physical fighting power, because their strength would be focused through the weapon, but speed? I'm not sure about that. I always figured that Mel's cutting up the Albion was something to do with his Sacred Treasures ability, seeing as how he activated it before he actually sliced the Albion.

As for Guila and Jericho (and Helbram), they seemed weirdly strong at the point in the series, but appeared to have just gotten weaker in comparison to the Sins as time went by. Guila's Chain Explosion doesn't even seem like something that would even hinder Mel during Liones. I'm pretty sure there was a power creep between Byzel and Liones for the Sins. It became even more clear with the introduction of power levels.

---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 PM ----------

No but what I'm essential saying is that Sloth is unable to unleash his full power unless he activates his secret treasure & the same goes for the other SINs (that's why I referenced chapter 49). The treasures can be likened to keys that unlocks ones capacity, thereby accentuating their combat abilities.
Their Sacred Treasures are meant to accentuate their unique magical abilities, which does raise their combat effectiveness, however, nothing else has been said to increase aside from that, physical abilities included. Their physical capabilities should be the same and appears to be the same.
 
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kkck

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That would be weird though. Just holding a weapon, any old weapon, just gives them an increase in speed like that? I'd understand physical fighting power, because their strength would be focused through the weapon, but speed? I'm not sure about that. I always figured that Mel's cutting up the Albion was something to do with his Sacred Treasures ability, seeing as how he activated it before he actually sliced the Albion.

As for Guila and Jericho (and Helbram), they seemed weirdly strong at the point in the series, but appeared to have just gotten weaker in comparison to the Sins as time went by. Guila's Chain Explosion doesn't even seem like something that would even hinder Mel during Liones. I'm pretty sure there was a power creep between Byzel and Liones for the Sins. It became even more clear with the introduction of power levels.

---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 PM ----------



Their Sacred Treasures are meant to accentuate their unique magical abilities, which does raise their combat effectiveness, however, nothing else has been said to increase aside from that, physical abilities included. Their physical capabilities should be the same and appears to be the same.
Well, the point here should be that weapons allow the user to draw out power. Power which also works physically. I mean, why else would the sins have trouble with guila or jericho? It seems like even if the sins did not have weapons their sheer physical capacity should have been enough to overwhelm them. I mean, the sins seem to have at least over 3 times the PL of guila and jericho. The sins have power upward of 3000 and guila and jericho have power between 500 (average HK power if we consider their amount and cumulative pl) and 1300 (the power of red demons). In turn guila and jericho overpowered the sins even physically. Meliodas had trouble even getting close. However once the sins started getting weapons and using them they never lost a physical confrontation. If anything meliodas with an inferior weapon was stronger than gilthunder, hendrickson and vivian. They could not even match up to him from a physical point of view...

meliodas did activate his sacred treasure but that seemed to be related to his clone ability. The speed which was referenced does not make sense with the clones being activated. Unless 5 simultaneous cuts that appear because of the clones were initially confused for speed of course. Cutting the albion seems to be more of a merit of mel's sacred treasure rather than the increase in power. Basically its inherent sharpness did the did. If it was power alone then king with chastiefol should have been able to turn albion into confetti since king's PL was higher than mel's. In turn it did not seem like king's cutting attacks had much of an effect even though they should have had more power than mel's basic attacks. To add to that, even the clones were able to cut the albuon even though their power is at around the 300 mark or so.
 

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IIRC.... Wait, let me see... Ha here it is


Wrath cleaved a sizeable hill... with a twig he picked up from the floor. Of course the twig crumbled after that demonstration since... well it's a twig.

Though the point is, Wrath unleashed that destruction force through a medium, the twig.

When he got himself a fine knight's dagger, he was able to unleash even greater force through that Dagger & not worry about it breaking/crumbling like the twig.

& when he was reunited with his sacred treasure, he unleashed an even greater power & obliterated a demon on a similar PL to Demon Hendrickson.

Through a medium is the key word here.
 

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IIRC.... Wait, let me see... Ha here it is


Wrath cleaved a sizeable hill... with a twig he picked up from the floor. Of course the twig crumbled after that demonstration since... well it's a twig.

Though the point is, Wrath unleashed that destruction force through a medium, the twig.

When he got himself a fine knight's dagger, he was able to unleash even greater force through that Dagger & not worry about it breaking/crumbling like the twig.

& when he was reunited with his sacred treasure, he unleashed an even greater power & obliterated a demon on a similar PL to Demon Hendrickson.

Through a medium is the key word here.
Okay...
So your saying use of medium causes increase in stats...

Well king using his telekinesis always has a medium of some sort...
He can use his weapon...
Or a branch...
Or a drop of water...

Are you saying that a drop of water will cause kings speed to increase?
That doesn't make any sense... By that logic if he controls a cup of water he should have a greater increase due to a larger medium....

And you said king is unable to unleash his full power without his weapon...
However King hasn't always had chastiefol.. In fact he hasn't had it very long compared to his life span...
So are you trying to convince me that he never was able to unleash his full power even though his might was able to deter the other clans from attacking the fairies?

The medium idea doesn't work...
King doesn't get faster with his weapon, his physical strength doesn't grow either...
Diane doesn't get faster when carrying Gideon
Gowther doesn't seem to gain any stat boost other than mind fück range
Ban can get stronger and faster without a medium
Merlin doesn't seem to get any faster or physically stronger

Anyways you also said his weapon accentuates his telekinesis..
So what? That doesn't prove anything other than show us how often he uses telekinesis,
Which the other Fairies are capable of... And King is still faster than all the other fairies, meaning accentuation of his telekinesis is nothing special, same way ban gets hurt and always heals...
Every injury accentuates how ban can heal... But accentuating the abilities don't do anything....
 

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Okay...
So your saying use of medium causes increase in stats...

Well king using his telekinesis always has a medium of some sort...
He can use his weapon...
Or a branch...
Or a drop of water...

Are you saying that a drop of water will cause kings speed to increase?
That doesn't make any sense... By that logic if he controls a cup of water he should have a greater increase due to a larger medium....

And you said king is unable to unleash his full power without his weapon...
However King hasn't always had chastiefol.. In fact he hasn't had it very long compared to his life span...
So are you trying to convince me that he never was able to unleash his full power even though his might was able to deter the other clans from attacking the fairies?

The medium idea doesn't work...
King doesn't get faster with his weapon, his physical strength doesn't grow either...
Diane doesn't get faster when carrying Gideon
Gowther doesn't seem to gain any stat boost other than mind fück range
Ban can get stronger and faster without a medium
Merlin doesn't seem to get any faster or physically stronger

Anyways you also said his weapon accentuates his telekinesis..
So what? That doesn't prove anything other than show us how often he uses telekinesis,
Which the other Fairies are capable of... And King is still faster than all the other fairies, meaning accentuation of his telekinesis is nothing special, same way ban gets hurt and always heals...
Every injury accentuates how ban can heal... But accentuating the abilities don't do anything....
No one is saying weapons cause an actual increase in stats. Mel would have 3370 with or without weapons, the issue is the amount of power they are able to draw. So a weapon wouldn't make merlin physically powerful or give mel a lot of magic. They would just be able to use more of what they already have so to speak.

As for king, his situation is perhaps a tad special compared to others. We know there are specific abilities that don't really grow stronger due to a better weapon. Take gowther, his illusions don't get better due to using a weapon. His abilities worked pretty much the same on galan and dreyfus and he didn't even use his bow. Full counter is not affected by the quality of the weapon either. His swordsmanship is affected when using inferior weapons but the effectiveness of full counter is about the same. Which is why his weak clones work well with full counter. King uses two specific abilities so to speak, he fights via the sacred tree and his disaster. Neither of which seems to particularly require a weapon. I mean, we just saw king turning a tiny cut on mel into a rather large wound. If a proper weapon made a difference here then king with a weapon would have been able to literally split meliodas in half from a distance. I guess the thing with king and chastiefol is that it allows better synergy between his own ability and the sacred tree.

The issue here is ban and meliodas specifically being physically overpowered while unarmed by jericho and guila respectively. If physical stats were constant then the two of them should pretty much be unable to even kinda seen them while fighting. Yet while unarmed the two of them were consistently speedblitz by the two of them. Even guila's ability which seemed to specifically increase her speed should not be a factor in that regard, there is simply that much of a difference between their PLs.
 

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Okay...
So your saying use of medium causes increase in stats...

Well king using his telekinesis always has a medium of some sort...
He can use his weapon...
Or a branch...
Or a drop of water...

Are you saying that a drop of water will cause kings speed to increase?
That doesn't make any sense... By that logic if he controls a cup of water he should have a greater increase due to a larger medium....

And you said king is unable to unleash his full power without his weapon...
However King hasn't always had chastiefol.. In fact he hasn't had it very long compared to his life span...
So are you trying to convince me that he never was able to unleash his full power even though his might was able to deter the other clans from attacking the fairies?

The medium idea doesn't work...
King doesn't get faster with his weapon, his physical strength doesn't grow either...
Diane doesn't get faster when carrying Gideon
Gowther doesn't seem to gain any stat boost other than mind fück range
Ban can get stronger and faster without a medium
Merlin doesn't seem to get any faster or physically stronger

Anyways you also said his weapon accentuates his telekinesis..
So what? That doesn't prove anything other than show us how often he uses telekinesis,
Which the other Fairies are capable of... And King is still faster than all the other fairies, meaning accentuation of his telekinesis is nothing special, same way ban gets hurt and always heals...
Every injury accentuates how ban can heal... But accentuating the abilities don't do anything....
I think you're exaggerating a bit but really, it's your word against this conspicuous manga statement "So this is the power of the sacred treasure...! No' this is the true power of one of the seven Sins being drawn out by the sacred treasure".

Explain how it's possible that captain was unable to properly combat the chick with the explosive power & her fellow soldiers but when he got himself a fine dagger, he's suddenly playing with her Boss Hendrickson & a higher class knight both simultaneously?

Surely a man's whose physically force is as high as the captains shouldn't have been a able to contest against Hendrickson's & Gil's might just because he got a dagger, right? His body should be tougher than the dagger, no?


So while you might be right that Sloth (particularly him) doesn't received an obviously increase in his base stats, he still able to perform at an higher level due to that treasure.

Keyword, true powers "drawn out by the sacred treasure - a medium"
 
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Well, the point here should be that weapons allow the user to draw out power. Power which also works physically. I mean, why else would the sins have trouble with guila or jericho?
But their speed? I don't buy that. Weapons focusing their magic and strength (in terms of using the weapon), I'll buy, but speed shouldn't be affected. The Sins could have had trouble with Guila and Jericho because the plot demanded it. Going by that fight in Byzel, Guila and Jericho were on the level of Gilthunder. But, earlier in the series, we saw that Mel was easily able to outmaneuver Gilthunder without any weapon.

It seems like even if the sins did not have weapons their sheer physical capacity should have been enough to overwhelm them. I mean, the sins seem to have at least over 3 times the PL of guila and jericho. The sins have power upward of 3000 and guila and jericho have power between 500 (average HK power if we consider their amount and cumulative pl) and 1300 (the power of red demons). In turn guila and jericho overpowered the sins even physically. Meliodas had trouble even getting close. However once the sins started getting weapons and using them they never lost a physical confrontation. If anything meliodas with an inferior weapon was stronger than gilthunder, hendrickson and vivian. They could not even match up to him from a physical point of view...
If just having a weapon pulls out all aspect of physical power, do you believe it also increases durability? Because Mel has taken much worse damage than what Guila dished out in her earlier appearances and gotten right up afterwards, unlike his fight with Guila where he'd seem tired and/or injured.

I also think Balor's Eye muddies this discussion up a bit. For example, from what we've seen, Gilthunder, Hauser, and Griamor as individuals had more than enough power to fodderize a Red Demon without assitance, but earlier in the series, we saw Ban fight a Red Demon and he had more trouble with it than his power level would indicate. I think the author just made the Sins stronger period as the manga went by.

Meliodas did activate his sacred treasure but that seemed to be related to his clone ability. The speed which was referenced does not make sense with the clones being activated. Unless 5 simultaneous cuts that appear because of the clones were initially confused for speed of course. Cutting the albion seems to be more of a merit of Mel's sacred treasure rather than the increase in power. Basically its inherent sharpness did the did. If it was power alone then king with chastiefol should have been able to turn albion into confetti since king's PL was higher than mel's. In turn it did not seem like king's cutting attacks had much of an effect even though they should have had more power than mel's basic attacks. To add to that, even the clones were able to cut the albuon even though their power is at around the 300 mark or so.
Well, assuming Lostvayne is vastly sharper than Liz's Blade, the cutting part makes sense. As for the speed, I figured it had to do something with the clones because of Arthur's comment and Mel's activation of Lostvayne. Another take could be that Mel had been careful with Liz's Blade and never really went all out with it, but because Lostvayne is of a higher quality, it can take what he can dish out. Another possiblity and that Mel can temporarily add on the stats of his physical clones for power, but that's a bit out there. I don't know. As for King, it seems to be an ongoing thing that his weapon has a problem piercing certain things. It had an issue piercing Dale's hide a while back as well. It's strength lies mostly in it's versatility, rather than it's outright killing potential.

---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 PM ----------

I think you're exaggerating a bit but really, it's your word against this conspicuous manga statement "So this is the power of the sacred treasure...! No' this is the true power of one of the seven Sins being drawn out by the sacred treasure".
But that could be, and is most likely, in reference to the magical aspect of the Sins. In fact, it's already been recently explained that Sacred Treasures are given to the Sins because it goes well with their unique magical ability. Lostvayne is "useless", so to speak, in the hands of other folks aside from Mel because all they'll get is weaker clones. In the hands of Mel, it allows him to maximize Full Counter's reflective ability. It doesn't increase his physical strength (as far as I'm aware of), it doesn't increase his spirit, it completely compliments his unique magical ability. When Helbram made that statement, Diane's demonstrated an increase in effectiveness, power, and range in her use of Creation, not anything else. Every attack she's shown with Gideon since then, have been attacks used in conjunction with Creation. Except that time she got clocked in the face by Galan.
 
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I think it's pretty much this. Nabaka kinda screwed up a little the power of the sins when the pot demanded it
 

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I think you're exaggerating a bit but really, it's your word against this conspicuous manga statement "So this is the power of the sacred treasure...! No' this is the true power of one of the seven Sins being drawn out by the sacred treasure".

Explain how it's possible that captain was unable to properly combat the chick with the explosive power & her fellow soldiers but when he got himself a fine dagger, he's suddenly playing with her Boss Hendrickson & a higher class knight both simultaneously?

Surely a man's whose physically force is as high as the captains shouldn't have been a able to contest against Hendrickson's & Gil's might just because he got a dagger, right? His body should be tougher than the dagger, no?


So while you might be right that Sloth (particularly him) doesn't received an obviously increase in his base stats, he still able to perform at an higher level due to that treasure.

Keyword, true powers "drawn out by the sacred treasure - a medium"
Except king doesn't need his sacred treasure...
His disaster ability turns scratches into gaping wounds...
He controls water like a bullet...

He was perfectly fine fighting meliodas without his sacred treasure...
Infact out of the two he came out better...
So remember what meliodas did with a twig?
While he had a bigger medium (the branch the Druid have him) and he still couldn't outright beat king...

So King without sacred treasure > meliodas without sacred treasure(pre-power up)


As for explaining how captain got his ass beat by guila...
The author wished it so...
Because ban and meliodas destroyed a prison without any weapons...Meaning no power being drawn out according to you
They did some serious damage when they were in the competition no weapons , however
Before that meliodas couldn't beat guila!!!!
It's all on the author, he overall started increasing the strength of the sins from the series began...
The only reason he made guila seem so powerful is because he wanted to show how much more powerful king was
 

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Except king doesn't need his sacred treasure...
His disaster ability turns scratches into gaping wounds...
He controls water like a bullet...

He was perfectly fine fighting meliodas without his sacred treasure...
Infact out of the two he came out better...
So remember what meliodas did with a twig?
While he had a bigger medium (the branch the Druid have him) and he still couldn't outright beat king...

So King without sacred treasure > meliodas without sacred treasure(pre-power up)


As for explaining how captain got his ass beat by guila...
The author wished it so...
Because ban and meliodas destroyed a prison without any weapons...Meaning no power being drawn out according to you
They did some serious damage when they were in the competition no weapons , however
Before that meliodas couldn't beat guila!!!!
It's all on the author, he overall started increasing the strength of the sins from the series began...
The only reason he made guila seem so powerful is because he wanted to show how much more powerful king was
Plot made the Chick give Captain troubles, eh?

I think it's important to note that every speedblitzing moments performed by Sloth against people of worth including the example you just used, was either with his sacred treasure diverse weapon control overwhelming his opponent or his magical ability. This is why I can't place him as high as some do in the speed department... at least until I've seen all the Sin's perform with their sacred treasure in real combat. Who knows, maybe a few more might prove themselves faster
 

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Except king doesn't need his sacred treasure...
His disaster ability turns scratches into gaping wounds...
He controls water like a bullet...

He was perfectly fine fighting meliodas without his sacred treasure...
Infact out of the two he came out better...
So remember what meliodas did with a twig?
While he had a bigger medium (the branch the Druid have him) and he still couldn't outright beat king...

So King without sacred treasure > meliodas without sacred treasure(pre-power up)
That's jumping a bit. Mel was hardly being serious there while king attacked relentlessly as King was on the offensive. You referred to Mel splitting a mountain with a twig but recall that he didn't go after King with that intensity. King's wound didn't prevent Mel from being able to fight either and Mel can use Full Counter on Disaster too. It's not like Mel needed his ST either. Also, remember that the Druid girl decided to end the battle when Mel compressed his darkness power into a ball. The outcome was quite obvious. A compressed water ball against a compressed darkness ball and don't forget that even without his ST, Mel using his darkness power takes his Pl to 10,600. In other words, he'd obliterate King who isn't using his ST. Wounds wouldn't mean anything to Mel in that scenario either. That's assuming King even manages to scratch him which is highly unlikely.
 

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That's jumping a bit. Mel was hardly being serious there while king attacked relentlessly as King was on the offensive. You referred to Mel splitting a mountain with a twig but recall that he didn't go after King with that intensity. King's wound didn't prevent Mel from being able to fight either and Mel can use Full Counter on Disaster too. It's not like Mel needed his ST either. Also, remember that the Druid girl decided to end the battle when Mel compressed his darkness power into a ball. The outcome was quite obvious. A compressed water ball against a compressed darkness ball and don't forget that even without his ST, Mel using his darkness power takes his Pl to 10,600. In other words, he'd obliterate King who isn't using his ST. Wounds wouldn't mean anything to Mel in that scenario either. That's assuming King even manages to scratch him which is highly unlikely.
I think its a tad early to say king would have been that easily defeated even by mel's darkness power. When mel used his darkness power he was using his 100%. It would have almost certainly beaten the water drop but its not like king was out of tricks at that point. He did not use the sacred tree at that point, which presumably does not require a weapon to be used to its full capacity and the very extent to which king needs a weapon to fully use disaster is questionable. Also worth noting about the scenario, mel concentrated the darkness in a small ball. Which means that he himself was not in his transformed stage at that point (hence his power would have been 3370 as usual) and it would have probably not afforded him the protective abilities we have seen before.

As far as mel splitting a mountain with a twig, I don't think that really is a feat which really tells us anything about mel's power. Except that mel can split a mountain with a twig. However in context such a thing should be something that plenty other people can replicate at least under the right circumstances. Mel was unarmed when he did that but it wouldn't be weird if even the weaker holy knights could do that if they have weapons of their own. And the more competent holy knights are probably able to replicate that feat (at least the ones referred to as GHK class) even without weapons. Its not like the sins had not done stuff like that before. Diane's physical strength is greater than mel's which probably means she can do a lot more than cutting a mountain with her ability. Mel even punched ban and broke the mountain where they were fighting at. In context, the sticks king and mel were using to fight each other were supposed to be resilient and perhaps even draw out a tiny bit of their power. Mel and king fought rather seriously which probably means every single strike during their short match had more power than mel's mountain breaking twig slash.
 

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I think King would have been defeated fairly easily though. Perhaps he would have lasted a bit when looking at the battle as a whole, but I'm referring to Mel using a similar form like he did against Galan. For King to reach that level, he needed to use Chastefiol's true form which he wouldn't be able to replicate in this case. As for the water ball vs darkness ball, that was in reply to the notion that King's water ball would have been more dangerous. I'm not saying Mel would stick with that. Disaster might not largely depend on a weapon but Mel is fully capable of countering it. On the other hand, Mel using the darkness attack like against Galan is something King can probably not content with. Let's not forget that disaster would amplify injuries and in Mel's demon form, he heals. King logically wouldn't have anything to overcome Mel's healing ability.
 

Amplitude404

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That's jumping a bit. Mel was hardly being serious there while king attacked relentlessly as King was on the offensive. You referred to Mel splitting a mountain with a twig but recall that he didn't go after King with that intensity. King's wound didn't prevent Mel from being able to fight either and Mel can use Full Counter on Disaster too. It's not like Mel needed his ST either. Also, remember that the Druid girl decided to end the battle when Mel compressed his darkness power into a ball. The outcome was quite obvious. A compressed water ball against a compressed darkness ball and don't forget that even without his ST, Mel using his darkness power takes his Pl to 10,600. In other words, he'd obliterate King who isn't using his ST. Wounds wouldn't mean anything to Mel in that scenario either. That's assuming King even manages to scratch him which is highly unlikely.
Okay so Mel was making a ball of darkness but let me ask you this... If king can turn a scratch into a huge slash looking wound... What happens when he decides to use it again...and then again... And again?
He has the ability to increase the severity of wounds exponentially...

Because I don't remember every seeing Mel use his full counter while using an actual attack...
Meaning he would probably have had to dispel the dark ball to use it or continue his attack and have his arm shorn from his body...


I'm just waiting until Mel and king work together though...
If King had been there when Mel defeated galan he would have looked a lot worse...
 
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Holt

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Okay so Mel was making a ball of darkness but let me ask you this... If king can turn a scratch into a huge slash looking wound... What happens when he decides to use it again...and then again... And again?
He has the ability to increase the severity of wounds exponentially...

Because I don't remember every seeing Mel use his full counter while using an actual attack...
Meaning he would probably have had to dispel the dark ball to use it or continue his attack and have his arm shorn from his body....
What would happen is that Mel would use Full counter on disaster and King would think twice before attempting to use disaster again. Also, Mel would heal if he is in his demon form so it doesn't really matter. We've seen arms reattached and even apparent fatal wounds being completely healed so it's not a big deal.
Why would Mel need to dispel the ball? Also, I don't even see why Mel would need to use the darkness ball. I only brought that up because you referenced king's water ball. Mel would simply remain in his demon form to fight. I doubt King would even be able to keep up. Mel briefly had Galan on the defensive when he used his demon form and that was before he regained his power.
 

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Except king doesn't need his sacred treasure...
His disaster ability turns scratches into gaping wounds...
He controls water like a bullet...

He was perfectly fine fighting meliodas without his sacred treasure...
Infact out of the two he came out better...
So remember what meliodas did with a twig?
While he had a bigger medium (the branch the Druid have him) and he still couldn't outright beat king...

So King without sacred treasure > meliodas without sacred treasure(pre-power up)


As for explaining how captain got his ass beat by guila...
The author wished it so...
Because ban and meliodas destroyed a prison without any weapons...Meaning no power being drawn out according to you
They did some serious damage when they were in the competition no weapons , however
Before that meliodas couldn't beat guila!!!!
It's all on the author, he overall started increasing the strength of the sins from the series began...
The only reason he made guila seem so powerful is because he wanted to show how much more powerful king was
I had said before the release of this chapter that fights betweens Sins always gets quickly in a way or another, that's exactly what happened. Meliodas didn't even attack once in this fight, he only reflected his Magic, and we still don't know the effects of this. And technically it was not a power up for Meliodas, he has been in a "depowered" state since the beginning of the manga.
 
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Amplitude404

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Helbram matched demon Mel...
And when king was angry he was smacking Helbram around without him able to even react...
 
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