Discussion Big Mom Pirates

[nguqua]

Re: ~SPOILERS~ Big Mom Pirates

Erm...
Erm...

WG main concern is to keep the balance here. WG cannot control all the seas, especially the NW which seems to be quite different from the first part of the GL. Therefore, they cannot take all the Yonkou out.

But as I said, she's strong, but definitely not strong as Shanks or WB... She looks more like Moria style who back at the Thriller Bark was all hype and talk, and got weaker because he decided to become a lazy retard. And that's how Big Mam looked to me.

I respectfully disagreed. A shichibukai is appointed and relieved of duty by the government. That's why we see someone like Moria still holding the title until the government finally decided to "kick" him out. However, the title of yonkou is not. It's a constant struggle of power. If you are not strong enough than you will lose your title. Being a yonkou in the new world means having lots and lots of powerful enemies who are out to take your head. We can see the example of White Beard having numerous enemies in Impel Down's lowest level.

For Shichibukai, the difference in each individual's power varies greatly. This is because there's no struggle for power between each shichibukai as the titles are given by the WG. However, Yonkou are not appointed by any authority and simply a natural occurences in which great powers begin to draw their boundaries. This requires a fundamental factor in which the powers have to at a equilibrium for the 4 forces to be in balance. If Big Mom is not as strong as the other yonkou, she would have been taken out already or reduced to a level in which her power no longer wields as much influence. This is the simple rule when the powers naturally draw their boundaries and not being monitered by a set system like the Shichibukai.

As for giving the impression of not being powerful for being fat, we can see that Jinbe is fat but very powerful. As for being carefree and vain (obsessed with candies), we learn that the most powerful or potentially powerful people in one piece are carefree and vain, but can turn serious when the situation arises - Garp, Luffy, Shanks.

 

[xeteboi]

Re: ~SPOILERS~ Big Mom Pirates

The feeling, I wouldn't say intimidation, that WB and Shanks gave were truly something else, I could easily say they're STRONG. Or more precisely, they're at the TOP. They way Oda draws them, they give a vibe different from any character, the only characters so far from whom I felt such a vibe are WB/Shanks/Mihawk/The admirals. The first time I saw them, I was like " Damn, these guys must be top tier ". Crocodile, Doflamingo, Kuma do give such a vibe too, but not to the extent of those six.

I guess the point of Zehaha here is that BigMom is not as the same feat as WhiteBeared or Shanks and making her the weakest among the Yonkou though that is also my speculation about her..

If Big Mom is not as strong as the other yonkou, she would have been taken out already or reduced to a level in which her power no longer wields as much influence. This is the simple rule when the powers naturally draw their boundaries and not being monitered by a set system like the Shichibukai.

A Yonkou doesnt mean these 4 emperors are equal in power, logically one of them is weaker than the other while another is hightier than the other.. If I rank them with my prediction,.it will be Teach, Shanks, Kaido and Big MOm..

 

[vagabond87]

Re: ~SPOILERS~ Big Mom Pirates

Maby she is sugar logia and thats why she loves sweets just like Magellan loved to eat poison. But I remember that on one of movies syrup logia was used...

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Re: ~SPOILERS~ Big Mom Pirates

jup the movie with the "ex-admiral" ^^ best movie after strong world so far imho

anyway my thoughts of the power: paramecia sugar sugar no mi(dont know japanese) she can transform every sugar in her body to pure energy, which boost her physical powers to an abnormal status, kinda like gear2x10

we already got a hormonfruit, so it should be possible to transform sugar into energy within a second

 

[Sakazuki]

Re: ~SPOILERS~ Big Mom Pirates

For the ones that are saying Big Mom is the weakest of the yonkous, the principle of that group of pirates is that they’re equal somehow, and I interpret this as that their strength is equal.

The only ‘fight’ of yonkous that we have seen so far came from Shanks against Whitebeard and that struggle showed to us how they’re beasts and in equal terms. I can’t expect less from Kaidou and Big Mom.

 

[Zehahaha]

Re: ~SPOILERS~ Big Mom Pirates

I respectfully disagreed. A shichibukai is appointed and relieved of duty by the government. That's why we see someone like Moria still holding the title until the government finally decided to "kick" him out. However, the title of yonkou is not. It's a constant struggle of power. If you are not strong enough than you will lose your title. Being a yonkou in the new world means having lots and lots of powerful enemies who are out to take your head. We can see the example of White Beard having numerous enemies in Impel Down's lowest level.

For Shichibukai, the difference in each individual's power varies greatly. This is because there's no struggle for power between each shichibukai as the titles are given by the WG. However, Yonkou are not appointed by any authority and simply a natural occurences in which great powers begin to draw their boundaries. This requires a fundamental factor in which the powers have to at a equilibrium for the 4 forces to be in balance. If Big Mom is not as strong as the other yonkou, she would have been taken out already or reduced to a level in which her power no longer wields as much influence. This is the simple rule when the powers naturally draw their boundaries and not being monitered by a set system like the Shichibukai.

As for giving the impression of not being powerful for being fat, we can see that Jinbe is fat but very powerful. As for being carefree and vain (obsessed with candies), we learn that the most powerful or potentially powerful people in one piece are carefree and vain, but can turn serious when the situation arises - Garp, Luffy, Shanks.

Implying that Yonkou do compete against each other...
We know for a fact that WB wanted a family, not fighting against pirate nor islands. Same with Shanks who wanted to have adventures...
Big Mam only interested in candies, shes doesn't seem the type to attack others and mind her business too.

The Yonkou so far didn't show us anything that may suggest that they're in competition, and it does seems that even Kaidou didn't want the status quo to be broken that's why he tried to stop WB back then, if he wanted to kill WB, he would've waited for the war and kill him the way Teach did.

They have territories, and but they mind their business, heck they're not even interested in achieving the title of Pirate King. The only competition is coming from small crews (Supernovas) who are trying to become PK, and BB didn't do anything that suggests he wants to change the status quo too, as he merely took WB's territories, end of story so far.

It will be again Luffy who will trigger change as he will take down Big Mam which will lead to bigger changes, in the same fashion Crocodile's defeat caused.

When there's no intention of actually competing with each other, we cannot say that they're all equal.
Saying that WB is equal to Big Mam is an insult to him (you'll say we don't know that, but that's my opinion based on hints on Manga, remember Sengoku that WB was at the top, he didn't even say the Yonkou, but he said WB).

If they were equal, might as well finish OP after Luffy's will defeat Big Mam, since that would mean he's in the level of WB and Shanks.

 

[GiantAlienHamster]

Re: Big Mam Pirates

I don’t know if Big Mam is really Lola’s mom. Ok, they’re ugly as the devil, but parenthood is a thing that is somewhat relative in One Piece. Whitebeard pirates called their captain “Pops” and even Ace doesn’t called his biological father by the proper way.
Right know, I can’t see Big Mam been Lola’s mother.

If she would be Lola's mom, then that would mean, that some really, really, really unlucky guy once had sex with her. She probably ate the poor fella after that...
Seriously, Lola's mom has to be someone else.


Anyway...
What is the most interesting for me is actually not Big Mam herself, but the masked guy. He is carrying a huge sword with a special design and it's just as huge as Mihawk's which also had a unique design.
Sooo.... could it be, after sooo many years, that this could be the second Supreme Grade Sword (最上大業物 Saijō Ō Wazamono?) we will get to see?

It was said once, that the most famous swords are all in the hands of powerful pirates and pirate-hunters. This guy is a commander of a yonkou. Him having one of the top 12 swords would make sense.

 

[xeteboi]

Re: Big Mam Pirates

Can I ask where did you got that DRAGON SWORD idea..is it just your given name for the 2nd strongest sword?

 

[Uriel]

Re: ~SPOILERS~ Big Mom Pirates

Maby she is sugar logia and thats why she loves sweets just like Magellan loved to eat poison. But I remember that on one of movies syrup logia was used...

Paramecia. They both have a Paramecia.

And it's my belief that Big Mom can't be weak. At all. We're in the New World, one of the four that the WG fears and the reason to create Shichibukai to balance the powers. That means She is strong as hell to keep her territory and strong pirates out of her domain.

 

[Jorge D. Dragon]

Re: ~SPOILERS~ Big Mom Pirates

Big Mam isn't weak. She didn't even give me an impresion of a weak person. She is a Yonkou. She might not be the strongest. As I see it and as it was stated in the manga Whitebeard was the strongest man in the World at this time, so he was on top individually. But I see other three Yonkou being more or less equal. Also I don't think that the difference between WB and other three Yonkou was that big. Speaking about them we should also take in account that Yonkou's power isn't only his own power, but also a power of his crew.
In my opinion Big Mam looks like a Giant and thus her physical power should be quite considerable. Also I believe she might have a DF power and thus it makes her way stronger. Also She might hyave Haki.

It would be really interesting to see her power, but I don't think Luffy will take her down at this point. It would be at least strange, because for Luffy to take down one of the ten strongest persons in the World would be too fast. I think we'll have several Arcs where Luffy and his crew will grow stronger and maybe getting another crewmember and maybe also Jimbei and then he might have a fight against her.

 

[Razh]

Re: Big Mam Pirates

I'm going to make a prediction just in case....

Seeing the mask-man compared to the three eyed girl (here), it is clear he must be at most 3 meter tall like Jinbei or Blackbeard, then the tallest normal humans we saw were Kuma and Moria around 6 meters.... Then here we see that Big Mama is not twice his height, but a lot more. So my opnion/prediction is that Big Mama is a giant! It fits the name "big" and it makes believable she eats 10 tons of candy... Also she is not Lola's mom.

I think it's a matter of perspective. Bobbin is standing a little closer to us than the girl. It's not a 2D manga, after all. Plus, Bobbin's companions all seem to be as tall as him. They can't all be that big, but I guess we'll see. As it is now, I doubt Bobbin is 3 meters high.

As for Mom, I don't know. From what we've seen, she could turn out to be a giant. Or she could be of Moria's size. I'm leaning towards the 2nd. Also, I'm with you about Lola. I just can't see mother and daughter being so different in all, but who knows, right?

 

[GiantAlienHamster]

Re: Big Mam Pirates

Can I ask where did you got that DRAGON SWORD idea..is it just your given name for the 2nd strongest sword?

Yeah sorry, in the German One Piece version the top 12 swords are called "dragon swords". I'm not sure, if this is a correct translation or just made up by some shitty German translator...
Anyway... it seems to be Supreme Grade Sword in the English version

 

[ErosVp]

@Razh

I know Oda usually mess up with sizes and proportions, but ever since that guy predicted Shirahoshi was Poseidon I want to hit a prediction too! XD

 

[nguqua]

Re: ~SPOILERS~ Big Mom Pirates

Implying that Yonkou do compete against each other...
We know for a fact that WB wanted a family, not fighting against pirate nor islands. Same with Shanks who wanted to have adventures...
Big Mam only interested in candies, shes doesn't seem the type to attack others and mind her business too.

The Yonkou so far didn't show us anything that may suggest that they're in competition, and it does seems that even Kaidou didn't want the status quo to be broken that's why he tried to stop WB back then, if he wanted to kill WB, he would've waited for the war and kill him the way Teach did.

They have territories, and but they mind their business, heck they're not even interested in achieving the title of Pirate King. The only competition is coming from small crews (Supernovas) who are trying to become PK, and BB didn't do anything that suggests he wants to change the status quo too, as he merely took WB's territories, end of story so far.

It will be again Luffy who will trigger change as he will take down Big Mam which will lead to bigger changes, in the same fashion Crocodile's defeat caused.

When there's no intention of actually competing with each other, we cannot say that they're all equal.
Saying that WB is equal to Big Mam is an insult to him (you'll say we don't know that, but that's my opinion based on hints on Manga, remember Sengoku that WB was at the top, he didn't even say the Yonkou, but he said WB).

If they were equal, might as well finish OP after Luffy's will defeat Big Mam, since that would mean he's in the level of WB and Shanks.

Perhaps I have not been clear enough and I apologize for that. I did not mean the Yonkou have to directly compete with one another. As natural forces of tremendous powers, they simply absorb territories till they reach an equilibrium when the boundaries between powers are set. If she is not as powerful, that does not mean that she will be eliminated by the other yonkou, but that she will not be able to absorb as much influence and would not be considered a yonkou. Remember, again, shichibukai is different than yonkou. It's not an appointed title by a single authority.

Beside, nothing suggests otherwise as you claimed it is. The only one of the yonkou that does not show interest in the title of PK is White Beard. Nothing has been said about the others. The purpose of Kaidou attacking White Beard is also not given.

You claimed that nothing suggests that they compete with one another (which I never disagreed), but I can use the same principle and say that nothing suggests that she is weak. Being vain and carefree, as I said, does not manifest anything about one's power as far as one piece goes. The comparison to past plot pattern of fighting against crocodile is irrelevant as we do not know if Luffy will actually face Big Mom first before the other yonkou. He is having a verbal challenge against Big Mom, but that doesnt mean he will encounter and fight her first before the other yonkou. Remember how Roro clashed with Mihawk way early in the manga? Does that mean that he confronted Mihawk again right when they enter Grand Line?

My biggest problem with your posts is that you requires evidence from others but do not use the same principle for your speculations. You are so certain of your prediction in which you have no evidence as it is too early to make any solid assumption. No hint in the manga points toward her being weaker. I highly respect your opinion as it may turn out to be very correct, but be so certain of it is simply not prudent.

 

[kkck]

The way I see it there are two things which we have to consider when it comes to a yonko. The first is personal strength. This is important as making a name for yourself is unlikely without this however I personally don't think this is the sole determinant factor when it comes to being a yonko. Big mom is definitely insanely strong, that much is clear however based on what we have seen it is not a fact that she is as strong or stronger than anyone in particular. For me the determinant factor when it comes to being a yonko is something different. I would think that what makes you or destroys you as a yonko is the people and the strength of the people that follow you. All yonko invariably have powerful crews behind them and a number of particularly strong people with them. Gathering strong people is not easy in the least as they are in itself rare and their influence great. Take aokiji, his loss was considered in itself an entire tangible fraction of the power of the world government. The great war which just took place was at large not decided by great military strategy and numbers but rather the individual actions of very few men (the admirals and commanders who fought each other, BBs crew, the many new world pirates and commanders who made damn sure luffy didn't get stomped by people of mediocre power). BB went to nothing but outright INSANE extremes to gather a crew of insanely strong pirates to say the least. In this regard, a yonko needs as much strength as is required to control a given crew of people of enough strength to be feared in the new world. The trick is to gather an actual crew with actual strength to follow you and around that crew gather allies which will be loyal enough to give you control over a piece of land. IMO it would not be strange that there are people out there with a decent bit of strength but have failed to build a crew with enough powerful crewmembers and gathered allies around them.

Lets take the sunny pirates in this context. Jinbe was without a doubt insanely strong (we even saw him giving arlong a beating although that is perhaps not quite an accomplishment) and tiger gave a fight to a VA and apparently elite marines. However, they were the only strong people there, the third in command would have been arlong who would have been fodder in the grand scheme of things even if he had been several times stronger than what he was. With the members it had there never was much of a chance to do anything in itself great among great pirates, they simply did not have the manpower to aspire to more.

Interestingly, based on what I have written it would seem luffy already meets the requirements to be a yonko in many ways. Luffy has already gathered a highly capable crew around him and it would not be strange in the least that each individual member of the monster trio would be strong enough to at least give an admiral a run for his money. Franky and brook should be relevant fighters in this regard as well although not necessarily enough to give someone like an admiral a run for his money. Ussop or chopper are certainly not up there but with their abilities they are at least strong enough to be feared. More so, luffy has already gathered allies of some worth. The WB pirates or its remmants are at least luffy's allies, jinbe is of some worth and he would certainly go to any lengths to help luffy, the 30000 pirates luffy just freed have a huge debt towards luffy.

 

[Zmsp]

Putting aside the necessary factors to be considered a Yonkou, I think considering Big mom weaker than the other Yonkou is plain dumb, it can obviously happen, but there's absolutely no evidence of it and to be honest,it goes against the natural order of things in the One Piece universe, aside from Buggy who is a character used mostly for comic reasons, every leader of an organization is usually the strongest one in it aswell, so Big mom should be no exception, considering she secured herself the position of Yonkou for apparently several years now, she commands a very powerful entity and is surely the strongest among that very same entity.

I honestly think people have been mistaken by the fact that such a frontal declaration of war was made so soon on a yonkou, so people naturally assume that considering luffy will still improve during his adventure and the first major appearence was made by Big Mom, she must be weaker than the other yonkou, who have been hyped to be some of the last encounters of luffy (considering BB the final antagonist and Shanks the one who indicates that luffy fulfilled his dream), but we dont know exactly when will luffy encounter Charlotte so that's a wrong assumption IMO.

I even think there's more evidence of Big Mom being a powerhouse than the opposite! She was the first Yonkou who had a relation with her crew that seemed mostly based on fear, they probably respect her and all, but both Shanks and WB had their crews seing them as not only a leader but an inspiration of some sort, while Charlotte was mostly shown as a tyrant, so to be feared by most of her crew,and considering we're talking about a crew who is considered on pair with the strongest of the strongest,she MUST be strong.

 

[ErosVp]

I doubt Luffy can take a Yonkou yet! Especially because she must have guys of Marco and Jozu caliber in her crew.... But if Luffy takes his time and defeat those kind of subordinates first.... Maybe if she is really Lola's mom (which I doubt now) the fight will stop in the middle, saving Luffy.

 

[bisha16]

I doubt Luffy can take a Yonkou yet! Especially because she must have guys of Marco and Jozu caliber in her crew.... But if Luffy takes his time and defeat those kind of subordinates first.... Maybe if she is really Lola's mom (which I doubt now) the fight will stop in the middle, saving Luffy.

I realy doubt that if it will come to a confrontation between those 2 I think that Luffy will gather a lot of ally(strong ones) who will take care of BIG MOMs top crew members and Luffy will fight personally with BIG MOM.

My prediction is that Luffy will meet someone who hates BIG MOM to death(because its been shown that she can do crazy thing about candy and she might have kill a lot of innocent people).and maybe this person might have trained all his life to kill BIG MOM and so he will make an ally of Luffy and help him take down BIG MOM.

 

[trigonoah]

let's put this in basic math people. i know we're all excited Luffy and Co. displayed some new abilities and can't wait to see the fruit of their training, but you can't let those hopes get the best of your sanity. Big Mum is a Yonkou, which immediately means she's crazy powerful. She has to be on par with WB, Shanks, and Kaidou. If she was on Luffy's level she would not have lasted ever as a Yonkou; the title would have been bequeathed years before. to explain this point lets put it in simple math:

1 >= The probability of pirates in the New World that are stronger than Luffy and/or his crewmates >> 0

That simple. It's certain there are lots of pirates stronger than the Strawhats currently are, so how come none of them decided to usurp BM's title?

Deuces.

 

[nguqua]

Interestingly, based on what I have written it would seem luffy already meets the requirements to be a yonko in many ways. Luffy has already gathered a highly capable crew around him and it would not be strange in the least that each individual member of the monster trio would be strong enough to at least give an admiral a run for his money. Franky and brook should be relevant fighters in this regard as well although not necessarily enough to give someone like an admiral a run for his money. Ussop or chopper are certainly not up there but with their abilities they are at least strong enough to be feared. More so, luffy has already gathered allies of some worth. The WB pirates or its remmants are at least luffy's allies, jinbe is of some worth and he would certainly go to any lengths to help luffy, the 30000 pirates luffy just freed have a huge debt towards luffy.

I agree with you that there are 2 factors that make yonkou a yonkou. Taking WB pirates for example, he has at least 2 captains that are comparable in power to him (though not as strong) and can fight on par with admiral. However, it's also important to mention that in order to gather strong crew, you yourself most likely have to be strong as well.
Also, considering your last paragraph, I disagree. There's nothing indicating that Luffy is strong enough to take on a yonkou or admiral much less zoro and sanji. In my personal opinion, I doubt they are anywhere near admiral levels yet.