Question Censorship

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Ryr

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Anyone thinks the censorship in these forums is worse than China's great firewall? You wrote something and after 3 minutes the whole post vanishes without a trace. Really, if all you want are 'Yes', 'I agree', 'You are right' types of posts, maybe you should rename the forum to 'Mangayesers'.
 

xi0

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There is nothing wrong with debating a topic. It's important to be first ontopic, and second, polite. Anything antagonistic towards other members is treated the same. It's deleted. There's no place for it here at MangaHelpers. If you do not agree with these ideals, than this site isn't for you.
 

M3J

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One liner that doesn't add anything is also frowned upon. If you disagree, don't just say "I disagree because it makes no sense." Explain why you disagree.
It's mostly posts that says "I agree" or similar that gets deleted.... Even after reading the rules, if you still do not understand why your post got deleted, then please PM a moderator or global moderator. Any of us is willing to help you.
 

Ryr

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There is nothing wrong with debating a topic. It's important to be first ontopic, and second, polite. Anything antagonistic towards other members is treated the same. It's deleted. There's no place for it here at MangaHelpers. If you do not agree with these ideals, than this site isn't for you.
Yes, because you practically get to redefine what's 'antagonistic' based on your own preferences and tastes. Never mind, I'll simply make it such that you'll have less chance to abuse your power.
 
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M3J

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Antagonist posts are posts that have negative tone in it, secret bashing or just rude without really bashing. We have an universal definition of it, but how we consider a post antagonist tends to depend on us. Rather than accusing us of abusing our power, why not read the rules and think why your posts were deleted? Staff does not delete posts without reason, and if you think the reason is unjust, you have the ability to PM the staff member or the higherups about the decision.
Rather than accusing others of abusing powers, why not figure out why we did something in the first place?

Also, if we abused our powers, would 3cmm have gone out of his way to make an Edo Tensei thread and then move the posts there? I have done the same as well, moving posts instead of deleting. And believe me, deleting is much easier than having to find the appropriate thread to move it to. So please, do not accuse us of abusing power when we are lenient and actually go out of our way to help. If you have any complaints or problems, please feel free to PM me, or a global moderator like Kaiten.sama or vintagemistakes. We are here to help you, not make you feel like we're abusing our powers.
 

xi0

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Yes, because you practically get to redefine what's 'antagonistic' based on your own preferences and tastes. Never mind, I'll simply make it such that you'll have less chance to abuse your power.
How are we redefining what's antagonistic? There is such a thing as a dictionary. My own preferences and tastes? I think deciding what's antagonistic and what isn't is pretty cut and dry...flame/bash/troll, these things are all obvious to the staff and even the majority of the members here.

And thanks for looking out for my reputation, I certainly wouldn't want to appear abusive :thumbs

But in all seriousness, if you have a problem with something a moderator does, bring it up with them in PM or an administrator.
 
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Ryr

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How are we redefining what's antagonistic? There is such a thing as a dictionary. My own preferences and tastes? I think deciding what's antagonistic and what isn't is pretty cut and dry...flame/bash/troll, these things are all obvious to the staff and even the majority of the members here.
I am not targeting you specifically. Nor am I targeting MJ3 - he was a fair moderator.

I am saying there are moderators out there who redefine the meaning of 'antagonistic' to justify their actions.

I'll simply put forth evidences:

Please don't come with the nonsense that they were discriminated against.
Again with the ridiculous claim, both kakashi and naruto considered it a possibility that the elders ordered the hit.
There are taken from the Naruto forum. Apparently, there are people who constantly accused me of writing 'nonsense' and 'ridiculous claims' using a mocking tone, but obviously these are not antagonistic, right?

Because I remember getting warnings simply because I said someone's arguments are ridiculous. Similar tones and different treatments.

Can you still claim that the moderator in question (not M3J obviously) is being fair at all?

And then there are times when I reported posts which have made insults against a person or a character. It got ignored. Apparently, a direct insult is not 'antagonistic' but arguing with an aggressive tone without insulting anyone is 'antagonistic'. :eyeroll

Thats what I meant when I said there are people who redefine the meaning of 'antagonistic' to fit their own purpose.
 
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DLord.Van.Buuren

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1 - the mods have guidelines and rules as well
2 - attempting to create disagreements , you wont win , the saff back each other up , the admins are not gonna blame the staff and even if they did you wont knw about it .
3 - usualy what is adressed as rediculous is the comment and not you in person , taking everything personally is just silly and wont get anywhere .
4 - given there are plenty of members you are the only one who complains thats funny .
 
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Ryr

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3 - usualy what is adressed as rediculous is the comment and not you in person , taking everything personally is just silly and wont get anywhere .
Yes, usually something would not be considered as 'antagonistic' unless you personally insult someone.

Guess what? I got warnings for refuting arguments with an aggressive tone. There was no personal insult. Worse off, someone used the same mocking tone towards me and his post is still there. Hence, the conclusion is: the term 'antagonistic' can be manipulated as easily by anyone.

2 - attempting to create disagreements , you wont win , the saff back each other up , the admins are not gonna blame the staff and even if they did you wont knw about it .
And yes, I am aware that they'll simply back each other up. That's why I would rather write here than using private messages in which there is zero transparency.
 

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why would you refute arguments with an agressive tone , im sure if your post is nice it'll be fine .
 

Ryr

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why would you refute arguments with an agressive tone , im sure if your post is nice it'll be fine .
In a heated argument usually it's inevitable that the tones get aggressive. That's part of a heated argument.

The point is, there are people out there who get away with using aggressive tones, there are people out there who insulted characters and get away with it, but there are also people who got warnings for engaging in heated arguments but not insulting anyone. Go figure.
 

eni

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Without wanting to sound rude, but you registered on this forum under acknowledgement of the rules here. These include to not spam, bash, insult or be inpolite in posts.

Whether a post is seen as such is decided by the moderator of that section after our intern guidelines (and posts can be overlooked but that's why they have a report button; we're currently heavy understaffed in some sections). Every mod has - like any normal indiviuum - a different style, even on modding. Our mods in the shounens sections delete more strictly because the flamewar-danger in those threads is a lot higher. They delete things that I can safely let stay in my small and calm sections.

You can call it 'power abuse' but in the end it's simply our house right to decide on deletions. Please keep in mind that you're on private ground and not public space. We want clean and friendly discussions and thus are more strictly on the posting quality than other boards out there. I know a lot of members who appreciate this kind of modding and the profound discussions allowed due to that. We think that a forums thread shouldn't look like a twitter account.

If you feel that negative on it, MH may isn't the right place for you to discuss. We don't force you to post here, you know?

As xi0 said, if you think that a mod steps over the line - which can happen and did happen in the past - feel free to complain to any admin. We let our mods usually a lot of free hand to find the best modding style for his/her section but if members complain, then admins react.

As for the 'backing up' conspiracy - of course. You won't see that our admins scold a green or blue in the public forums. How ridicilous would that be? We're a professional team and as such always show a consensus to the members. That is completely normal (and I work professionally IRL like this too). We don't pranger our mods just as much as we don't pranger troublesome members. Privacy is important to us.

But that doesn't mean that we let it go. Not at all. But such things are done intern or in PM with the members, not as a open war. We demodded staff before due to misbehaviour, do you see any bad blood anywhere? No, because we don't make that negatively public. It's always handled discrete and diplomatic with all related partys. We're not on facebook here, seriously.
 
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DLord.Van.Buuren

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In a heated argument usually it's inevitable that the tones get aggressive. That's part of a heated argument.
thats not a reason my friend , unless you actually tend to post agressive comments .

who got warnings for engaging in heated arguments but not insulting anyone. .
there is no way you can know that , such statments are not gonna make people think differently of what said before .
 

Ryr

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Without wanting to sound rude, but you registered on this forum under acknowledgement of the rules here. These include to not spam, bash, insult or be inpolite in posts.
Rules are twisted, why would you think I am complaining?

You can call it 'power abuse' but in the end it's simply our house right to decide on deletions. Please keep in mind that you're on private ground and not public space. We want clean and friendly discussions and thus are more strictly on the posting quality than other boards out there.
You are basically telling me to shut up about possible abuses or get off the forum? Why thank you. How about no? Private messaging is simply an excuse to get people to shut up in public - who knows what you'll be doing behind closed doors?

As for the understaffed argument, yes, you are obviously understaffed when it comes to giving warnings to certain people who are using the same aggressive tones. But there are people who got multiple warnings for using the same tones - but this time you are not understaffed anymore right.

Anyway, I am complaining on the 'complaints forum', which is the right place to voice out complaints. Until there is equal treatment for everyone of course.
 

eni

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Rules are twisted, why would you think I am complaining?
That's one view on it. I'd say they aren't set in stone. We always see the whole picture which results in different decisions at times.

A constant spammer will get more infractions points as a newbie who does it for the first time. Someone who already got plenty warnings may get a ban where anyone without a negative history would just get a warning.

We try to be fair but that only works when we look at every user indivudally and thus some decisions may seem unfair but have actually a good reason behind it.

You are basically telling me to shut up about possible abuses or get off the forum? Why thank you.
Your welcome. If there is abuse, how about pointing it concrete out? All you do at the moment is gossip instead of actually reporting the abuse in question, so we can handle it.

Give me the moderator name and a list of posts you feel were deleted/non-deleted on wrong decision. I can still see deleted posts, so that's not a problem. You should more or less remember where you posted.

Generally, again:
  • Posts get overlooked, as we have not enough staff at the moment.
  • There's a report button for YOU, if you feel a post should be handled.
  • There's different handling in the different sections due to different behaviour fo the audience.
  • Mods have different modding styles and newbie mods make mistakes, sometimes a little too much.
  • Not everything is and can be fair. We're no robots.

Private messaging is simply an excuse to get people to shut up in public - who knows what you'll be doing behind closed doors?
That's your problem. We're not a goverment you need to conspirate against. If you can't trust the voluntary staff of a mere manga fan forum to the point that you need to bring up complot theories, I can't help you.

As for the understaffed argument, yes, you are obviously understaffed when it comes to giving warnings to certain people who are using the same aggressive tones. But there are people who got multiple warnings for using the same tones - but this time you are not understaffed anymore right.
Timezones? Different mods?

Give me concrete examples, I can't and won't argue baseless accusations.

Anyway, I am complaining on the 'complaints forum', which is the right place to voice out complaints. Until there is equal treatment for everyone of course.
Again, I can't do *anything* without concrete complains on concrete moderators and concrete situations. This is so far just a ungrouded complain without any backup.

I'm not saying that you lie. I know very well that not all mod decisions are always fair and need improvement. As I said, we demodded people on such things in the past. But you don't help me to find problems when you don't tell me who and when did wrong. I can't scold hot air.
 

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i dont think backing up is a conspiracy , and how can you let go of your most valuable members who are willing to help , can you fire a volunteer .
 

Ryr

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Give me concrete examples, I can't and won't argue baseless accusations.
I'll send you the name just so you wouldn't say my accusations are baseless. I can also point out a lot of posts in the forums that has aggressive tones on it but was ignored. Finally, I can point out at least one instance where someone was bashing, in which I reported it and it was ignored.

Anyway, forgive my cynicism but I am almost certain that the management would simply come up with an excuse or something to refute my 'privately-sent' claims. That's the 'benefit' of using private messages.
 

eni

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Why don't you simply give it a try?

Have you ever had a issue with a concrete complain to an admin? Wasn't it handled well? Did you have the impression that you weren't taken seriously? If so, tell me.

I'm not saying that your complains are baseless to annoy you or to accuse you of lying, I say that so you understand that I can't take any action without concrete information.

Not guilty till proven otherwise, it's a simple concept. I take your complains very serious but you must also understand that I don't tolerate attacks against your fellow members (mods in this case) just based on a "Anyone thinks...?" complain without concrete examples.
 

Ryr

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I already sent you the information. Thank you for your patience.
 

eni

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No problem and thank you.

Please give me some time, since my kids just came home from school. I need to attend to them first and also need to look into the matter then :)
 
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