Characters and abilities with unknown Nen categories

[kkck]

Well, in an emission scenario I would argue gotoh would have been superior to someone using simple nen bullets. He was enhancing the properties of the coins (an object which for some reason has some significance to him) and he had a limited number of them. Ultimately this is the exact kind of scenario where someone gets a boost for determination and whatnot. The issue ultimately was not that gotoh's ability sucked, the issue was that hisoka is insanely strong on a bad day. Heck, hisoka should be by all intents and purposes even stronger than most zodiacs.

As for gon's nen, well, the issue is exclusively that he is still young. His rock being slow charging, his slow emission or whatever flaw his sword has can all be fix with time. Eventually his paper will end up being just about as good as razor's nen ball, his rock about as good as uvogin's big bang punch and his sword about as good as... a nen sword (LOL?). I don't think we will actually see gon using a fully developed hatsu nor how it would work under such scenario, it would take too long.

 

[Uriel]

After all He DID talked with Ging and He seemed to talk long with him. A few tips could have improved Gon's technique.
And now I just don't know where to fit Gotoh. I honestly don't know. I mean...His technique was actually a poor combination of basic techniques.

BTW, did you think that Canary has learned Nen?

 

[kkck]

Canary most definitely knows nen. We know that she has killed hunters before and her nen fed granny's motorcycle thing a while back. She seems to use a weapon though... Considering her personality I think she is an enhancer which would fit well with her weapon.

 

[Demonspeed]

Nen will definitely be improved outside.Not only inscriptions of chapter 60 are similar to chapter 338 but also those of the piece of iron.

---------- Post added at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 PM ----------

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[Uriel]

I've the same impression. Also, knowing that Ging is interested on ancient ruins and He's versed on Nen, makes me think there is a direct relationship. And on top of that, the map and that weird draw done by Togashi when explaining Nen that I pointed out on the Anime Discussion which have an awfully similar style (I love that word)

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I like it better in the anime rather than manga because it's easier to see the resemblances.

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The old thread is here in case anyone want to follow this discussion.

 

[kkck]

His technique was actually a poor combination of basic techniques.

Isn't that a tad too harsh? I don't get the impression that gotoh's hatsu was that terrible to say the least. None of the things which seem to be an inconvenient actually were inconvenient for one thing. Neither the number of coins he can have nor the rate at which he can fire them were ever an issue at least. If anything, any potential difficulty would actually just add to his determination and make his nen stronger. Ultimately, why would his technique be weaker than any other potentially similar one which did not use coins? Assuming similar power levels there is no reason for his bullets to be weaker than say, franklins.

 

[Demonspeed]

About Gotoh, where would you place him in a tiers list do you think he can beat a ryodan?

 

[TheAmericandream]

I think most of the Spiders who focus on battle (Uvogin, Phinks, Feitan, Franklin, Machi, Bonolenov) and Chrollo could all beat Gotoh without too much effort. While I think Gotoh is stronger then say the Nostrade Clan bodyguards or the handicapped gimps from Heaven's Arena, I don't think Gotoh is any stronger then the Shadowbeast members we saw fighting Uvogin (remember they almost beat Uvogin as a team).

 

[Uriel]

Isn't that a tad too harsh? I don't get the impression that gotoh's hatsu was that terrible to say the least. None of the things which seem to be an inconvenient actually were inconvenient for one thing. Neither the number of coins he can have nor the rate at which he can fire them were ever an issue at least. If anything, any potential difficulty would actually just add to his determination and make his nen stronger. Ultimately, why would his technique be weaker than any other potentially similar one which did not use coins? Assuming similar power levels there is no reason for his bullets to be weaker than say, franklins.

It's not the coins or the quantity, but the amount of things He can do with it. It's QUITE limited. Same as Guido, actually, but instead of hammer power is bullet power. Making them move and rotate is just about the same as what Guido did, but cooler by design. There is no much to do in multiple situations which makes his technique, in the end, poor.
And well...I would like to see Franklin in a dire situation when He's not facing any mobs.

And BTW...Yesterday I was thinking while I was taking an exam (Yes, not the best place but...) that the Nen Gon used against Pitou, that famous "Unknown Nen Type" is Enhancement. I mean...He just boosted himself, He not even shown a difference in his technique. He was just badass strong. So the weird thing there was not the Hatsu Type, but the Oath used.

 

[Demonspeed]

And well...I would like to see Franklin in a dire situation when He's not facing any mobs.

.

Franklin is a good hand to hand fighter and the 4th strongest physically in the Ryodan. I really want to see a serious fight between an enhancer and emitter ,this kind of battle would be great.

 

[Uriel]

Franklin is a good hand to hand fighter and the 4th strongest physically in the Ryodan. I really want to see a serious fight between an enhancer and emitter ,this kind of battle would be great.

I forgot the rank!
And yes, I would like to see less fodder fights for some Ryodan. Franklin and Phinx, particularly.

 

[TheAmericandream]

Phinks feels like "less good Uvogin", but being stronger then Hisoka physically says a lot! Phinks and Franklin probably pack a hell of a punch. I find Phinks' Hatsu to be rather stupid though (only a bit better then JaJanken) I would also love to see Machi against an opponent who isn't a mook, since she ranks right under Feitan and Franklin I think she'd be pretty strong and I'd like to see more applications of the Nen threads.

 

[kkck]

It's not the coins or the quantity, but the amount of things He can do with it. It's QUITE limited. Same as Guido, actually, but instead of hammer power is bullet power. Making them move and rotate is just about the same as what Guido did, but cooler by design. There is no much to do in multiple situations which makes his technique, in the end, poor.
And well...I would like to see Franklin in a dire situation when He's not facing any mobs.

And BTW...Yesterday I was thinking while I was taking an exam (Yes, not the best place but...) that the Nen Gon used against Pitou, that famous "Unknown Nen Type" is Enhancement. I mean...He just boosted himself, He not even shown a difference in his technique. He was just badass strong. So the weird thing there was not the Hatsu Type, but the Oath used.

Well, even in that regard it is not significantly different from most hatsu. Gon barely makes up for it because his hatsu has 3 techniques. Individually each of them is about as limited as gotoh's hatsu. Razor's nen ball is on principle the same thing, except that rather than multiple attacks we are talking a single strong one. Even his nen guys are not relevant here as they reduce his overall power and needs to take them back in to actually use his full power. Uvo, franklin and phynx can barely do anything with their nen, at best they smash stuff. And to be fair, gotoh's nen is in principle the same as franklins. Ultimately, gotoh's nen is not any less useful than the standard hatsu in the series, they all have limited stuff they can and cannot do in any given situation. I would even go as far as arguing that nen that can be used with more versatility than the average are extremely rare, difficult to use, lack significantly more in specific areas than more simple nen or do not fall into any particular nen category (specialization). Take hisoka. His nen actually gives him 0 offensive power. He uses it to that extent, well, because of sheer awesomeness. Machi has a damn string. If she need something broken and her punches don't cut it she is screwed. Granted she has a different combat style but still... Heck, nen as a whole is built around the fact that it always will be quite limited. Togashi went as far as developing the nen type chart to show specifically how each individual will be limited when making a hatsu. Gotoh's hatsu is not more or less limited than any other hatsu in the series.


As far as gon and his adult transformation.... Well, the scenario of him using enhancement to enhance his growth to his strongest possible adult form is perfectly viable. I would argue the issue lies elsewhere simply because this is the sort of manga where this matters. When gon used his technique we saw increases in two things which don't really make sense with any nen at all. First, his mass actually increased. Where did sustenance for such a thing come from? Second, gon's overall amount of nen increased. Neither of those things make a shred of sense with what we actually know of nen. It ignored principles of mass, time... and everything. In this regard, I would argue the technique nen used does not fall into any particular nen category and thus it should be considered a specialization technique. Or do we assume gon materialized many times his body weight, assimilated it into his body and got that form? Which makes no sense considering gon has never gotten any materialization training and he is very far away from the category. Even that would not explain where the sheer amount of nen came from. Or does it make sense for his pledge and determination to make stuff appear to make him larger? A strong pledge would perhaps explain the insane amount of nen but not the rest.

 

[TheAmericandream]

So we have Porcupine the little track suit assassin from the Shadowbeasts (Injyuu), he can grow and manipulate his hair...hair are dead cells, but hair growth hmm...is that manipulation or enhancement? or both? I always thought it was actually a good ability, but later on we have Palm Siberia in her Chimera Ant form, when she fights Killua its explained shes still Enhancer type, but she can also control her hair (though only just to wrap around her body) and then strengthen it like armor so she doesn't have to use Nen defense. So are these similar abilities? And would they count as pure Enhancement, or is their Manipulation involved as I would suspect.

Porcupine pics

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Palm pics

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I'm pretty sure they both use Manipulation and that Porcupine is a Manipulator, while Palm uses much more limited manipulation abilities to create the armor and uses Enhancement for offense and strengthening her hair so that she can use Kou with her attacks. But I was just curious what others thought.

What about the other Shadowbeasts? The Wolf guy's teeth and the guy who carries leeches with him..What aura type do you think they are, just judging by what we know?

As a sidenote, reading this stuff, man I can't wait for Viz to translate the rest of NGL (this dialogue is killing me, who talks like this)

 

[Uriel]

@kkck:
Not really. If you take Razor, you realize that his power was still frightening and his devils could even talk and stuff...Which we know makes the technique tricky to categorize, since it could make it easier or harder to control due that. So Razor handle multiple attacks AS WELL as single attacks.
And seems interesting that He doesn't depend a lot of what He has, so Gotoh coins becomes a more absurd technique considering that the force of bullets can be obtained with other methods more efficient. In the end, Gotoh had insufficient memory as Hisoka says.
He could develop a better technique for his coins, but He chose to have only two miserable effects (Bullet Strength, Rotation...Which in any case could be done by applying In without too much trouble by respectable Nen users)

What you say about Hatsu in the series...I honestly don't think so. So long we have seen MANY techniques with one simple principle and many effects. Take the bag from Fukuru, Basho from the bodyguards of Nostrade or Shachmono. All of them were weak, but their technique was useful and versatile.
In the defense of Machi...Her strings are as metal if I recall correctly. She has a pretty much versatile technique, since She can fight, sense and even heal with them.

About Gon...He enhanced his own body accelerating everything and resulting in instant growth and increasing the amount of aura. It was potential transformed in aura. It's a principle of enhancement, I think. I'm not sure, though.

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About Porcupine and Palm...Is she really an Enhancement user? What about her ability to see beyond? :O She has PLENTY of abilities now that I think about her.

According to wiki:
Merman Clairvoyance (former)
Type: Enhancement and Conjuration
So...How the fuck this is Enhancement?
Wink Blue (The Lonesome Deep Sea Fish)
Type: Enhancement

Black Widow appears as Enhancement alone, but I do agree fits more with Manipulation on that side. It's only Manipulation to take the shape and then just enhanced. Porcupine seemed to directly manipulating his hair.
But what makes me wondering is that clairvoyance seems to be related with Enhancement. Why? How?

 

[kkck]

I think the porcupine guy was primarily enhancement. We are talking about a guy who could make his hair strong enough to pierce uvo'd defenses here. Manipulation alone would not grant him that and even if he used both being that far away from enhancement would not make sense to me at least. Maybe he had some other pledge to make it stronger but I still would argue enhancement being his primary nen type makes the most sense. After all, the level of manipulation he would require is minimal.

 

[Uriel]

Yeah,, you're spot on about controlling hair. After all, it's owned by the user so it shouldn't be THAT MUCH difficult. Now I see how it's enhancement.
Still can't see clairvoyance though :O

 

[kkck]

@kkck:
Not really. If you take Razor, you realize that his power was still frightening and his devils could even talk and stuff...Which we know makes the technique tricky to categorize, since it could make it easier or harder to control due that. So Razor handle multiple attacks AS WELL as single attacks.
And seems interesting that He doesn't depend a lot of what He has, so Gotoh coins becomes a more absurd technique considering that the force of bullets can be obtained with other methods more efficient. In the end, Gotoh had insufficient memory as Hisoka says.
He could develop a better technique for his coins, but He chose to have only two miserable effects (Bullet Strength, Rotation...Which in any case could be done by applying In without too much trouble by respectable Nen users)

What you say about Hatsu in the series...I honestly don't think so. So long we have seen MANY techniques with one simple principle and many effects. Take the bag from Fukuru, Basho from the bodyguards of Nostrade or Shachmono. All of them were weak, but their technique was useful and versatile.
In the defense of Machi...Her strings are as metal if I recall correctly. She has a pretty much versatile technique, since She can fight, sense and even heal with them.

About Gon...He enhanced his own body accelerating everything and resulting in instant growth and increasing the amount of aura. It was potential transformed in aura. It's a principle of enhancement, I think. I'm not sure, though.

Well, yeah, razor had a lot power power but that is something independent from his actual technique. Overall using his demons did place a significant strain on him. His demons do have uses but they come at a significant cost. I would question the extent to which they would be useful in a battle against someone strong. Heck, using them against someone strong actually puts him at a significant risk if they get destroyed. If they get destroyed it could have a significant mental impact on him and cost him a lot of nen.

Why would other methods be more efficient, in particular for gotoh? A big deal about hatsu is using something that suits you. If gotoh has a fetish for coins then using coins will grant him a sort of benefit, that is how nen works. And there is no reason for gotoh's technique to not be useful or versatile either. It simply works as a standard emission technique but with coins.

Machi's strings are not metal. They are transmuted from nen so they are made purely out of nen basically. I don't think it has ever been said they take after any material in particular and considering how it works it does not seem to work like anything in particular either.

 

[Uriel]

I never said they WERE metal, but they are strong as. Also, it must be materialized at some point or Hisoka arms would have fall off.

And even if Razor has a cost over those demons, they're there for something. It's obvious that it's not the solely technique Razor has, since it's obvious He did not went serious when confronting Gon's group.

About Gotoh...Yeah, it fits for him and everything but that doesn't mean it's versatile. It's lame, since his uses are limited to MANY cases and He proved to be insufficient to use those limitations as strengths.

 

[kkck]

As far as I know the strings are never materialized at any point. I would argue she uses some level of emission to maintain them in the cases where she needs to keep them separated. Its a bit far from her category though. It seems she is able to emit them considering the page describing the technique mentions that it loses strength once it separates from machi.

But why would gotoh's technique be any less versatile than any other emission though? Its just that, a standard nen bullet technique. The only limitation he could possibly have over other techniques is the amount of coins but other than that there is no actual drawback over doing the same thing without the coins. And for all we know that drawbacks makes the coins stronger which would more than make up for the drawback of lack of coins.

He proved to be insufficient to use those limitations as strengths.

I have no idea of what you are talking about there.