Fantasy Cobra runs a gauntlet

[Seven777]

He beat Ajeel because him and Lisanna were in advantages Souls.

Hell, we know that he would have been almost no-diffed by Ajeel since he had to rely on Lisanna to get out of Ant Lion Pit.

Meh, Sting was at an advantage too, and he had Rogue help him, yet I'm still pretty impressed by his performance. Elfman's not spriggan tier, but he performed well enough for me to view him as more than 1/3 spriggan tier like a Spriggan Historia.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Meh, Sting was at an advantage too, and he had Rogue help him, yet I'm still pretty impressed by his performance. Elfman's not spriggan tier, but he performed well enough for me to view him as more than 1/3 spriggan tier like a Spriggan Historia.

Ajeel and Larcade aren't exactly in the same tier. Elfman, with the help of Lisanna, beat a Spriggan whose Magic he was highly resistant against. While Sting was outright immune to Pleasure + Light Blades, the same can't be said for Hunger and RIP. Sting needing Rogue's Shadow powers (and Kagura's Gravity) to escape Hunger/RIP is somewhat comparable to Elfman in that they both needed a partner to help them out, but the difference is the severity of the attack. Ajeel used a pretty basic spell on Elfman whereas Larcade was using his hax (his ace-in-the-hole in the case of RIP).

And like said, Elfman almost got done in by Ant Lion Pit while in a Soul purpose built for beating Sand users. Even if you want to make the argument that Sting would have suffered the same fate with Larcade, at least Sting wasn't highly resistant to the attack that would have KO'd/killed him

I'm not trying to paint Elfman as fodder or anything, more just I don't think his feats against Ajeel aren't all that good.

 

[Seven777]

Ajeel and Larcade aren't exactly in the same tier. Elfman, with the help of Lisanna, beat a Spriggan whose Magic he was highly resistant against. While Sting was outright immune to Pleasure + Light Blades, the same can't be said for Hunger and RIP. Sting needing Rogue's Shadow powers (and Kagura's Gravity) to escape Hunger/RIP is somewhat comparable to Elfman in that they both needed a partner to help them out, but the difference is the severity of the attack. Ajeel used a pretty basic spell on Elfman whereas Larcade was using his hax (his ace-in-the-hole in the case of RIP).

And like said, Elfman almost got done in by Ant Lion Pit while in a Soul purpose built for beating Sand users. Even if you want to make the argument that Sting would have suffered the same fate with Larcade, at least Sting wasn't highly resistant to the attack that would have KO'd/killed him

I'm not trying to paint Elfman as fodder or anything, more just I don't think his feats against Ajeel aren't all that good.

Even if Elfman was %100 resistant to Ajeel's attacks(he's not, Ajeel can still damage him), actually having the offense and speed to put him down is good imo. Elfman has the strength to hurt Ajeel and he has the speed to hit Ajeel, the only thing up in the air is his durability.
As for Ant Lion Pit being casual compared to RIP, what difference does it make when in the end Ajeel's most powerful attacks still couldn't bring down Elfman? And tbh being rescued from Ant Lion Pit don't mean it would oneshot you, otherwise that would mean team Natsu would all have died from it if it weren't for Natsu rescuing them.

I don't think Elfman is all that powerful either, but I don't see any way he's below a Spriggan Historia. Type advantage only gets you so far, and Lisanna survived without it. So either Elfman protected Lisanna throughout the entire fight and still managed to take down Ajeel, or Lisanna survived on her own merits, in which case Elfman probably wasn't going down anyway. Either way, i'd say Elfman is at minimum 1/2 spriggan level as opposed to the 1/3 a historia is at.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Even if Elfman was %100 resistant to Ajeel's attacks(he's not, Ajeel can still damage him), actually having the offense and speed to put him down is good imo. Elfman has the strength to hurt Ajeel and he has the speed to hit Ajeel, the only thing up in the air is his durability.

Agreed here.

As for Ant Lion Pit being casual compared to RIP, what difference does it make when in the end Ajeel's most powerful attacks still couldn't bring down Elfman? And tbh being rescued from Ant Lion Pit don't mean it would oneshot you, otherwise that would mean team Natsu would all have died from it if it weren't for Natsu rescuing them.

It was an over-exaggeration to say it would one-shot him but I think Lisanna not being there probably would have resulted in Ajeel winning. Not because of her strength or anything, rather she provides Elfman with some utility and evasiveness. If it weren't for Lisanna then there's the possibility that Ajeel could have kept trapping him in Ant Lion Pit and then gone to town on him.

The point about Team Natsu isn't that solid IMO. Whereas there's no reason to believe Elfman can escape Ant Lion Pit, all of Team Natsu have counters to get out of it (and counters to Ajeel's Magic in general):

- Erza has her Water and Wind requip stuff
- Natsu used an iron fist IIRC
- Gray should be able to freeze it
- Wendy can blow it away
- Lucy has Aquarius Star Dress + Scorpio Star Dress + Spirits

I don't think Elfman is all that powerful either, but I don't see any way he's below a Spriggan Historia. Type advantage only gets you so far, and Lisanna survived without it. So either Elfman protected Lisanna throughout the entire fight and still managed to take down Ajeel, or Lisanna survived on her own merits, in which case Elfman probably wasn't going down anyway. Either way, i'd say Elfman is at minimum 1/2 spriggan level as opposed to the 1/3 a historia is at.

When you say you would rate him above a Hist S12 do you mean a Bradman/Wahl Historia or Goddy Historia?

Either way, I personally think that the way Strauss Duo vs Ajeel went was that they covered each others' weaknesses. So Elfman likely tanked a majority of the hits while Lisanna made sure to help him escape attacks he couldn't on his own (like Ant Lion Pit). It still doesn't make much sense to me how they ended up winning, like, my expectations were low for Ajeel but damn. I suppose this is just another example of a debate that wouldn't have existed had Hiro actually shown the battles he set up.

Regardless of my salt, while type advantage only gets so far, its still a pretty good advantage. Honestly I would be tempted to make an argument for Lucy having a decent chance against him in a 1 vs 1 because she could actually focus all of her offence on him rather than having to divide her attention between all three of the Strauss', but considering he tanked that Stardress nuke I may be underestimating his durability. Likewise its hard to argue whether Rogue should be above him because Rogue unfortunately has less recent feats than him.

What I would like to add though is that Proxy Wahl and Historia Wahl should be higher in the gauntlet, they are complete hard counters to Cobra's Magics - his can't hear them due to them not having hearts and his poison is useless due to them being machines.

 

[Seven777]

Agreed here.

It was an over-exaggeration to say it would one-shot him but I think Lisanna not being there probably would have resulted in Ajeel winning. Not because of her strength or anything, rather she provides Elfman with some utility and evasiveness. If it weren't for Lisanna then there's the possibility that Ajeel could have kept trapping him in Ant Lion Pit and then gone to town on him.

The point about Team Natsu isn't that solid IMO. Whereas there's no reason to believe Elfman can escape Ant Lion Pit, all of Team Natsu have counters to get out of it (and counters to Ajeel's Magic in general):

- Erza has her Water and Wind requip stuff
- Natsu used an iron fist IIRC
- Gray should be able to freeze it
- Wendy can blow it away
- Lucy has Aquarius Star Dress + Scorpio Star Dress + Spirits

When you say you would rate him above a Hist S12 do you mean a Bradman/Wahl Historia or Goddy Historia?

Either way, I personally think that the way Strauss Duo vs Ajeel went was that they covered each others' weaknesses. So Elfman likely tanked a majority of the hits while Lisanna made sure to help him escape attacks he couldn't on his own (like Ant Lion Pit). It still doesn't make much sense to me how they ended up winning, like, my expectations were low for Ajeel but damn. I suppose this is just another example of a debate that wouldn't have existed had Hiro actually shown the battles he set up.

Regardless of my salt, while type advantage only gets so far, its still a pretty good advantage. Honestly I would be tempted to make an argument for Lucy having a decent chance against him in a 1 vs 1 because she could actually focus all of her offence on him rather than having to divide her attention between all three of the Strauss', but considering he tanked that Stardress nuke I may be underestimating his durability. Likewise its hard to argue whether Rogue should be above him because Rogue unfortunately has less recent feats than him.

What I would like to add though is that Proxy Wahl and Historia Wahl should be higher in the gauntlet, they are complete hard counters to Cobra's Magics - his can't hear them due to them not having hearts and his poison is useless due to them being machines.

Sure, Elfman would definitely lose without Lisanna, but if it takes 2 people to beat a foe then I’m comfortable calling those fighters each at least 1/2 that foe’s level. You can factor in type advantage, but let’s face it, Lisanna isn’t anywhere close to Elfman level, so he was likely carrying more than 1/2 the burden.

Above Hist Wahl.

Sure, I didn’t really consider Wahls robotic advantage over Cobra.

 

[Jko]

Round 1: Lisanna

Spoiler

Round 2: Juliet

Spoiler

Round 3: Freed

Spoiler

Round 4: Wahl’s Proxy

Spoiler

How featless Cobra gets past the first round let alone the past 2 (which should be above 5 and 6) is beyond me.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Round 1: Lisanna

Spoiler

Round 2: Juliet

Spoiler

Round 3: Freed

Spoiler

Round 4: Wahl’s Proxy

Spoiler

How featless Cobra gets past the first round let alone the past 2 (which should be above 5 and 6) is beyond me.

I get that argument that Cobra is lacking feats (fuck you Mashima) but you think Lisanna could solo him? The only bit I agree with you on is Proxy Wahl, and that's only because its a machine - which instantly negates his Listening Magic and makes his poison useless.

Round 1 - Pushing Lucy back? Really? You think the guy that survived taking a hit from Acno is getting one-shotted by an attack that barely hurt Lucy?

Round 2 - The only reason Juliet was even slightly challenging was because she had Heine backing her up. Without that her only feats are causing Mira pain and kicking her once. Cobra has his Listening hax to predict what she's going to do and his poison gradually weakens opponents. He may not stomp her like Mira did but he's not losing.

Round 3 - Listening Magic is very useful here, Freed won't be able to surprise Cobra with any Justu Shiki restrictions since he'll hear Freed creating them. This is the toughest one so far but his poison/CQC should carry him through.

At the end of the day Cobra is still a Dragon Slayer, that plot relevance alone should at the very least put him above a Spriggan Historia.

 

[Jko]

I get that argument that Cobra is lacking feats (fuck you Mashima) but you think Lisanna could solo him? The only bit I agree with you on is Proxy Wahl, and that's only because its a machine - which instantly negates his Listening Magic and makes his poison useless.

Round 1 - Pushing Lucy back? Really? You think the guy that survived taking a hit from Acno is getting one-shotted by an attack that barely hurt Lucy?

Round 2 - The only reason Juliet was even slightly challenging was because she had Heine backing her up. Without that her only feats are causing Mira pain and kicking her once. Cobra has his Listening hax to predict what she's going to do and his poison gradually weakens opponents. He may not stomp her like Mira did but he's not losing.

Mix Dress Lucy >>>> Stardress Lucy >>> Cobra. Stardress Lucy oneshotted Jackal who gave Tartarus Natsu a high diff fight and Mix dress is far more powerful. Cobra wasn't 9D level in Tartarus so...yeah that means Lucy in Tartarus could oneshot Cobra. Lisanna is par or stronger than normal Stardress therefore she is more power than Cobra. He has zero feats that say he can fight Lisanna who has great showing against Lucy, a combantant who has far more feats and better showings than Cobra.

Round 3 - Listening Magic is very useful here, Freed won't be able to surprise Cobra with any Justu Shiki restrictions since he'll hear Freed creating them. This is the toughest one so far but his poison/CQC should carry him through.

At the end of the day Cobra is still a Dragon Slayer, that plot relevance alone should at the very least put him above a Spriggan Historia.

Everyone in their mama can survive an attack from that Acno who was actively trying not to kill any of the DS bcs he needed them to harmonize. How are you seriously trying to give him that feat when he got fodderize by August and was destroyed by Jellal's sema lol.

I literally just showed her taking a nuke to the face and damaging Mira by her own magic. He is losing since they overpowered Mira in BSS and BSS Mira treated Lucy like a joke. She hits on the level of BSS and tanks on the level of BSS therefore she is as power as BSS.

Freed doesn't need prep to take away his DS magic. He already did woth Gray in the 100YQ without set up.

Plot relevance? Um who'w 100YQ and who's not. And no, plot relevance doesn't man he stronger than H12 when H12s have better feats. And him being a DS didn't do squat for him when he got stomped from Tartarus to Alvarez to Acno. All he has done is take Ls.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Everyone in their mama can survive an attack from that Acno who was actively trying not to kill any of the DS bcs he needed them to harmonize. How are you seriously trying to give him that feat when he got fodderize by August and was destroyed by Jellal's sema lol.

Bruh, anyone tanking an attack from Acno isn't getting beat by Lisanna lmfao.

You also haven't addressed Cobra's Listening + Poison. Until you do Lisanna is getting bodied.

I literally just showed her taking a nuke to the face and damaging Mira by her own magic. He is losing since they overpowered Mira in BSS and BSS Mira treated Lucy like a joke. She hits on the level of BSS and tanks on the level of BSS therefore she is as power as BSS.

That's the thing, they overpowered BSS. Heine isn't here to help Juliet so her only feats are sticky goo + kick to the face. At best she is equal to half the power of BSS.

LMFAO at Juliet = BSS Mira. She does not hit on the level of BSS at all. Show me one panel proving it.

And tanking a BSS nuke, while not bad at all, only means the fight is going to be more drawn out... which is fine for Cobra, it just means his poison will actually matter in this fight.

With Cobra's abilities of Listening how is Juliet even landing a hit on Cobra?

Freed doesn't need prep to take away his DS magic. He already did woth Gray in the 100YQ without set up.

Its a good thing I didn't imply he needed prep.

When I said Freed won't be able to take Cobra by surprise with Jutsu Shiki I meant that because of his Listening Magic. Freed may be able to restrict one of Cobra's Magics but Cobra will know which one.

Plot relevance? Um who'w 100YQ and who's not. And no, plot relevance doesn't man he stronger than H12 when H12s have better feats. And him being a DS didn't do squat for him when he got stomped from Tartarus to Alvarez to Acno. All he has done is take Ls.

The only characters in 100YQ in the gauntlet are Lisanna, Freed, Wendy and Lucy.

My point about relevance is that he should still be non-fodder during Alvarez due to being a DS. Look at the Acno fight - Natsu, Laxus, Gajeel, Wendy and the Twin Dragons. None of them are fodder. Even Rogue proved to be at least near the level of a Historia S12. Why the hell would Cobra be an exception here? We've even seen before that Cobra fought roughly on the same level as the other Slayers during the Dragon Invasion of GMG. Why would this change in the run up to Alvarez when he was actually active as a Mage and taking down Dark Guilds with the rest of CS?

As for them getting stomped in Tartaros, how was that a stomp? They pushed Jellal into using a spell that made Jura, who is unarguably in Laxus' tier at that time, shit himself just from the build up. That was nowhere near the stomp you're trying to make it out to be, he had to crush his own eyes and bring out his strongest known spell.

There's also the fact that Irene sent J/H to deal with OS on the battlefield despite two Spriggans already being down there. If you find J/H as impressive as you seem to do, surely this is a point in Cobra's favour?

Cobra may be hard to judge due to a lack of feats but you're downplaying him massively.

 

[Livinbreathineatin]

I get that argument that Cobra is lacking feats (fuck you Mashima) but you think Lisanna could solo him? The only bit I agree with you on is Proxy Wahl, and that's only because its a machine - which instantly negates his Listening Magic and makes his poison useless.

Round 1 - Pushing Lucy back? Really? You think the guy that survived taking a hit from Acno is getting one-shotted by an attack that barely hurt Lucy?

Round 2 - The only reason Juliet was even slightly challenging was because she had Heine backing her up. Without that her only feats are causing Mira pain and kicking her once. Cobra has his Listening hax to predict what she's going to do and his poison gradually weakens opponents. He may not stomp her like Mira did but he's not losing.

Round 3 - Listening Magic is very useful here, Freed won't be able to surprise Cobra with any Justu Shiki restrictions since he'll hear Freed creating them. This is the toughest one so far but his poison/CQC should carry him through.

At the end of the day Cobra is still a Dragon Slayer, that plot relevance alone should at the very least put him above a Spriggan Historia.

If Cobra is a equal to a Historia Spriggan , he’d be on par with Minerva and Rogue and I don’t see him beating either one. Cobra’s weak. He has no feats. Surviving an attack from Acno doesn’t mean shit since you’re just ignoring context. Are you arguing Cobra has impenetrable defence because he tanked a basic attack from Acno?

Sucks to be featless.

 

[Axiomus]

Cobra isn't completely featless. He just has less feats relative to the other dragon slayers. He has more feats than Lisanna, and those feats are better than the ones Lisanna have.

Even if you argue that killing Brain was a surprise attack, Cobra still had to have the physical strength to tear Brain's flesh. There are many people who wouldn't be able to do this type of damage even if you allowed them to have a surprise attack. Cobra has his feats against the rock dragon anyways. He broke the dragon's scales and managed to survive after being stepped on by said dragon. At the very least, Cobra should scale to Erza before she released second origin, considering his performance against her during the Key of Starry Night arc. That would put him on the level of GMG Minerva, which would put him above GMG Rogue. Certainly above Lisanna.

 

[Ramen]

Cobra isn't completely featless. He just has less feats relative to the other dragon slayers. He has more feats than Lisanna, and those feats are better than the ones Lisanna have.

Even if you argue that killing Brain was a surprise attack, Cobra still had to have the physical strength to tear Brain's flesh. There are many people who wouldn't be able to do this type of damage even if you allowed them to have a surprise attack. Cobra has his feats against the rock dragon anyways. He broke the dragon's scales and managed to survive after being stepped on by said dragon. At the very least, Cobra should scale to Erza before she released second origin, considering his performance against her during the Key of Starry Night arc. That would put him on the level of GMG Minerva, which would put him above GMG Rogue. Certainly above Lisanna.

Preach #JusticeForThePoisonDragon

 

[Ebony Maw]

If Cobra is a equal to a Historia Spriggan , he’d be on par with Minerva and Rogue and I don’t see him beating either one.

Why not? His Magic is straight up better than Minerva's (teleporting is damn near useless since he can listen and find out where she's going) and likewise Rogue's intangibility isn't as effective for the same reason.

Cobra’s weak. He has no feats. Surviving an attack from Acno doesn’t mean shit since you’re just ignoring context. Are you arguing Cobra has impenetrable defence because he tanked a basic attack from Acno?

> Accuses me of ignoring context
> Completely ignores context of my argument

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said Cobra had an impenetrable defence. My argument is that Lisanna, who can't even significantly hurt Lucy is not putting down someone that took a kick from Acnologia.

Sucks to be featless.

Cobra has feats we can scale, he's not featless.

 

[Jko]

Cobra isn't completely featless. He just has less feats relative to the other dragon slayers. He has more feats than Lisanna, and those feats are better than the ones Lisanna have.

Even if you argue that killing Brain was a surprise attack, Cobra still had to have the physical strength to tear Brain's flesh. There are many people who wouldn't be able to do this type of damage even if you allowed them to have a surprise attack. Cobra has his feats against the rock dragon anyways. He broke the dragon's scales and managed to survive after being stepped on by said dragon. At the very least, Cobra should scale to Erza before she released second origin, considering his performance against her during the Key of Starry Night arc. That would put him on the level of GMG Minerva, which would put him above GMG Rogue. Certainly above Lisanna.

Starry Key arc is not canon and it's annoying you keep bringing those feats up when I already debunked it.

Spoiler

No recollection of the Zentopia incident nor any canon powers from the Zentopia arc.

Secondly he only did good against Erza when he used his sound magic, his DS magic did not hurt her once in the fight. Third, a backstab is still a backstab. August was pierced by plain steel when he got backstab so no, Cobra is not impressive for killing an unguarded Brain. And Erza stomped Midnight who is far stronger than Cobra so how in the hell can you say Cobra is Erza level when Erza was only damaged by Cobra's snake which venom was more pontent than any of Cobra's DS magic (that same DS magic was tanked by Happy) and that's bcs she got surprised attack by Richard? Cobra has literally no canon feats to ever put him on par with Erza.

Spoiler

Needed 3v1 to tag Erza in fodder armors and you're trying to say he is Erza level? Lmfao. Erza = Jura >>>> Brain >>> Cobra. Erza would not get beaten by a guy who lost to OS Natsu.

Feats against jobber dragons is not a feat either as base Wendy was able to hurt Zirconis with a winged attack lol and said Dragon was not even hurt by Laxus' DS lightning. So no, none of his feats are anywhere near as impressive as Lucy's in Tarartus who easily did this

Spoiler

to a guy who did this.

Spoiler

And Lisanna was match for Stardress Lucy who is far stronger than this Lucy. 9D >>> 7kin >>> OS. OS is literally the weakest guild of the Balam Alliance. And they didn't train for 7 years bcs they were imprisoned without the use of magic.

Spoiler

Cobra has zero feats on par with Lis let alone having feats on par with Juliet.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2019 ---

My argument is that Lisanna, who can't even significantly hurt Lucy is not putting down someone that took a kick from Acnologia.

Who did Acno kill or down on the good side? I'll wait.

Also Wendy without plot protection was shown to be downed by Kyria yet wasn't downed by freaking Irene or Acno who would fodderize Kyria. Wendy also took a magical attack from Acno to the face and was in better condition than Cobra who got rekted by a kick. (Anime)

Anyone using Acno feats as actual feats is just admitting their character doesn't have actual feats to back up their win.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2019 ---

Bruh, anyone tanking an attack from Acno isn't getting beat by Lisanna lmfao.

You also haven't addressed Cobra's Listening + Poison. Until you do Lisanna is getting bodied.

That's the thing, they overpowered BSS. Heine isn't here to help Juliet so her only feats are sticky goo + kick to the face. At best she is equal to half the power of BSS.

LMFAO at Juliet = BSS Mira. She does not hit on the level of BSS at all. Show me one panel proving it.

And tanking a BSS nuke, while not bad at all, only means the fight is going to be more drawn out... which is fine for Cobra, it just means his poison will actually matter in this fight.

With Cobra's abilities of Listening how is Juliet even landing a hit on Cobra?

Its a good thing I didn't imply he needed prep.

When I said Freed won't be able to take Cobra by surprise with Jutsu Shiki I meant that because of his Listening Magic. Freed may be able to restrict one of Cobra's Magics but Cobra will know which one.

The only characters in 100YQ in the gauntlet are Lisanna, Freed, Wendy and Lucy.

My point about relevance is that he should still be non-fodder during Alvarez due to being a DS. Look at the Acno fight - Natsu, Laxus, Gajeel, Wendy and the Twin Dragons. None of them are fodder. Even Rogue proved to be at least near the level of a Historia S12. Why the hell would Cobra be an exception here? We've even seen before that Cobra fought roughly on the same level as the other Slayers during the Dragon Invasion of GMG. Why would this change in the run up to Alvarez when he was actually active as a Mage and taking down Dark Guilds with the rest of CS?

As for them getting stomped in Tartaros, how was that a stomp? They pushed Jellal into using a spell that made Jura, who is unarguably in Laxus' tier at that time, shit himself just from the build up. That was nowhere near the stomp you're trying to make it out to be, he had to crush his own eyes and bring out his strongest known spell.

There's also the fact that Irene sent J/H to deal with OS on the battlefield despite two Spriggans already being down there. If you find J/H as impressive as you seem to do, surely this is a point in Cobra's favour?

Cobra may be hard to judge due to a lack of feats but you're downplaying him massively.

Lisanna could take a hit from that Acno... anyone who is an FT ally can tank an entire barrage of attacks from that Acno l who literally beat no one.

She does as I already show her pushing BSS Mira back and hurting her with her sticky acid. I then showed her tank an explosion from BSS Mira. Everything shows she is BSS level in the fight otherwise she would have been beaten easily.

And? You acted like his plot relevance boosted him up to their level when he is not relevant at all.

Rogue is far stronger than Cobra as he was able to push back SO Natsu who oneshotted Max who was Tenrou Natsu level without a scratch. He didn't fight relatively on par bcs those Dragons were jobbing. Show me one person in that entire GMG fight that visibly actually scratched Dragon or anyone who was downed by them? Everyone survived and no causalities were had.

That is a terrible feat for Jellal as OS hasn't progressed for 7 years bcs magic was prohibited in their cells as seen with Cobra's cell and Jellal's.

Jura almost oneshotted Laxus which means Jellal would've been toast by a serious punch from Jura (he got hurt by freaking Racer and Angel). Jellal's attack surprised Jura just like Cana's FG surprised him. Do you think Cana could've down Jura with it? Jellal needed Sema to try and hurt Jura bcs all of his attacks were useless against him lol.

She sent J/H to clean them up means what? J/H weren't scared of Makarov who would fodderize OS.

No, I'm not you guys are overhyping this dude like he has any solid feats. You try and rely on a fight with Acno who they couldn't even budge and he couldn't kill them bcs he needed the DS to survive. You try to say that it's impressive he did this like if you switched him out for freaking Asuka that she was not going to survive that punch. Hiro had Acno kill no one and he didn't even down a single good guy lmao.

 

[Ebony Maw]

I'm not responding after this, these arguments are outright mental. I usually enjoy debating with you but I'm not wasting my time on anyone who even attempts to argue that fucking Lisanna can tank a hit from Acnologia. Jesus Christ...

Lisanna could take a hit from that Acno... anyone who is an FT ally can tank an entire barrage of attacks from that Acno l who literally beat no one.

Dude, I usually respect you but this is ludicrous. Lisanna can take a hit from Acno? The same Lisanna that got knocked out by Lucy?????

What the hell are you smoking? Call BS on the Acno fight all you like but the dude canonically fucked up the Dragon Slayers with absolute ease.

Get a better argument or go home.

She does as I already show her pushing BSS Mira back and hurting her with her sticky acid. I then showed her tank an explosion from BSS Mira. Everything shows she is BSS level in the fight otherwise she would have been beaten easily.

Bruh, you're lowballing Mira here, badly at that.

Mira was pressured by J/H, it was Heine who did the most damage. If you actually think Juliet is putting an equal fight up against Mira than I don't know what to say. Again, ludicrous.

And? You acted like his plot relevance boosted him up to their level when he is not relevant at all.

He doesn't actually need relevance since he's got feats. That said, if he is somehow the fodder you want to see him as then why is he a Dragon Slayer in the first place? Why did he get dragged out during GMG? Why did he not do notably worse in GMG?

It makes no sense for Cobra to not be at least as strong as the weakest Slayer if he's going to be in the battle with the final boss.

Rogue is far stronger than Cobra as he was able to push back SO Natsu who oneshotted Max who was Tenrou Natsu level without a scratch. He didn't fight relatively on par bcs those Dragons were jobbing. Show me one person in that entire GMG fight that visibly actually scratched Dragon or anyone who was downed by them? Everyone survived and no causalities were had.

LMFAO

The Dragons were jobbing? Are you forgetting the whole plot point where the Dragons kill every Slayer except Natsu? The only reason the Slayers survived is because of Ultear.

As for the awful scaling you're trying to use to downplay Cobra:

- When the hell did Rogue push Natsu back during GMG?
- Cobra fought roughly as well as the other Slayers did during GMG
- Hilariously, you asking for a panel of any Slayers scratching a Dragon plays in Cobra's favour:

Spoiler

Cobra did better than the other Slayers (barring Natsu and Laxus, obviously).

That is a terrible feat for Jellal as OS hasn't progressed for 7 years bcs magic was prohibited in their cells as seen with Cobra's cell and Jellal's.

Mate, Jellal gave Jura at worst a mid-diff fight. Anyone who can do that is not getting pushed by Tenrou characters.

In addition, you've put yourself in a logical problem: Angel learned new Magic over the time skip. Either Zentopia is canon or those cells were nowhere near as strict as you think.

Jura almost oneshotted Laxus which means Jellal would've been toast by a serious punch from Jura (he got hurt by freaking Racer and Angel. Jellal's attack surprised Jura by Cana's FG. Do you think Can could've down Jura with it? Jellal needed Sema to try and hurt Jura bcs all of his attacks were useless against him lol.

Considering the hype FG got + the fact that it surpassed his own best spell... yeah, FG would have done serious damage to Jura.

Also trash Jellal's durability all you want because it turns out... gasp durability isn't the only factor to consider.

"Jellal's attack surprised Jura by Cana's FG" - What?

As for saying Sema didn't scare Jura, the first page is surprise:

Spoiler

But this?

Spoiler

That's not surprise, that is (at best) awe, at worst fear.

She sent J/H to clean them up means what? J/H weren't scared of Makarov who would fodderize OS.

Why are you wanking J/H so much? The OS would bounce J/H around like footballs.

You trash the OS at every opportunity you get but you never actually address their abilities:

- What are J/H doing to avoid getting blitzed by Racer/Cobra when Racer's Magic is active?
- What are J/H doing to avoid Hoteye's ground collapsing?
- What are J/H doing to avoid getting put in Nightmare by Midnight?

In comparison, what do J/H actually have? Sticky slime that burns? Ribbons that electrocute? That isn't doing shit to the OS.

And top kek at Makarov fodderizing the OS. Makarov is only winning against OS by using Fairy Law, and if Makarov has to use that then they were a significant threat to him from the start.

No, I'm not you guys are overhyping this dude like he has any solid feats. You try and rely on a fight with Acno who they couldn't even budge and he couldn't kill bcs he needed the DS to survive. You try to say that it's impressive he did this like if you switched him out for freaking Asuka that she was not going to survive that punch. Hiro had Acno kill no one and he didn't even down a single good guy lmao.

You can say he has no solid feats all you like but you're wrong. There's stuff we can scale from GMG/Tartaros.

Anyone using Acno feats as actual feats is just admitting their character doesn't have actual feats to back up their win.

I really hope you stop using Irene vs Acno as evidence then, because outside of that one moment human Irene has a pretty bad record (for a supposed equal of August):

- Suffered from Larcade's Magic
- Couldn't put down Erza or Wendy when bloodlusted
- Enchanting surpassed by a 13 year old

Btw, I do love how you never address Cobra's abilities in this. No one on the ladder apart from Wahl + Proxy Wahl will be immune to this, and we saw how effective it was against Erza and Natsu. Do you really think the likes of Lisanna and Freed can counter this? Freed might be able to take away the Hearing but then he's dealing with a Slayer that naturally enjoys longer fights due to the nature of his Magic.

 

[Jko]

I'm not responding after this, these arguments are outright mental. I usually enjoy debating with you but I'm not wasting my time on anyone who even attempts to argue that fucking Lisanna can tank a hit from Acnologia. Jesus Christ...


Dude, I usually respect you but this is ludicrous. Lisanna can take a hit from Acno? The same Lisanna that got knocked out by Lucy?????

What the hell are you smoking? Call BS on the Acno fight all you like but the dude canonically fucked up the Dragon Slayers with absolute ease.

Get a better argument or go home.

Bruh, you're lowballing Mira here, badly at that.

Mira was pressured by J/H, it was Heine who did the most damage. If you actually think Juliet is putting an equal fight up against Mira than I don't know what to say. Again, ludicrous.

He doesn't actually need relevance since he's got feats. That said, if he is somehow the fodder you want to see him as then why is he a Dragon Slayer in the first place? Why did he get dragged out during GMG? Why did he not do notably worse in GMG?

It makes no sense for Cobra to not be at least as strong as the weakest Slayer if he's going to be in the battle with the final boss.

LMFAO

The Dragons were jobbing? Are you forgetting the whole plot point where the Dragons kill every Slayer except Natsu? The only reason the Slayers survived is because of Ultear.

As for the awful scaling you're trying to use to downplay Cobra:

- When the hell did Rogue push Natsu back during GMG?
- Cobra fought roughly as well as the other Slayers did during GMG
- Hilariously, you asking for a panel of any Slayers scratching a Dragon plays in Cobra's favour:

Spoiler

Cobra did better than the other Slayers (barring Natsu and Laxus, obviously).

Mate, Jellal gave Jura at worst a mid-diff fight. Anyone who can do that is not getting pushed by Tenrou characters.

In addition, you've put yourself in a logical problem: Angel learned new Magic over the time skip. Either Zentopia is canon or those cells were nowhere near as strict as you think.

Considering the hype FG got + the fact that it surpassed his own best spell... yeah, FG would have done serious damage to Jura.

Also trash Jellal's durability all you want because it turns out... gasp durability isn't the only factor to consider.

"Jellal's attack surprised Jura by Cana's FG" - What?

As for saying Sema didn't scare Jura, the first page is surprise:

Spoiler

But this?

Spoiler

That's not surprise, that is (at best) awe, at worst fear.

Why are you wanking J/H so much? The OS would bounce J/H around like footballs.

You trash the OS at every opportunity you get but you never actually address their abilities:

- What are J/H doing to avoid getting blitzed by Racer/Cobra when Racer's Magic is active?
- What are J/H doing to avoid Hoteye's ground collapsing?
- What are J/H doing to avoid getting put in Nightmare by Midnight?

In comparison, what do J/H actually have? Sticky slime that burns? Ribbons that electrocute? That isn't doing shit to the OS.

And top kek at Makarov fodderizing the OS. Makarov is only winning against OS by using Fairy Law, and if Makarov has to use that then they were a significant threat to him from the start.

You can say he has no solid feats all you like but you're wrong. There's stuff we can scale from GMG/Tartaros.

I really hope you stop using Irene vs Acno as evidence then, because outside of that one moment human Irene has a pretty bad record (for a supposed equal of August):

- Suffered from Larcade's Magic
- Couldn't put down Erza or Wendy when bloodlusted
- Enchanting surpassed by a 13 year old

Btw, I do love how you never address Cobra's abilities in this. No one on the ladder apart from Wahl + Proxy Wahl will be immune to this, and we saw how effective it was against Erza and Natsu. Do you really think the likes of Lisanna and Freed can counter this? Freed might be able to take away the Hearing but then he's dealing with a Slayer that naturally enjoys longer fights due to the nature of his Magic.

Dude, you obviously skipped right over the part where I said that Acno i.e. the one that was jobbing worse than the Flash in the entire final part of the series. Do you think Mashima had the balls to kill anyone on the ally side? Please tell me one person Acno killed in that final confrontation. Please tell me one person he downed and knocked out? He had hard time with catching a fudging ship, couldn't destroy it one blow, and got rammed away twice by it. Anyone with above ship durability can tank a hit from Acno lol.

You mean the Acno who couldn't down base Wendy who was fodderize by Kyria's breath?

No fucking duh, he slaughtered the DS yet he couldn't KO one of them in the fight. You're trying to give Cobra a feat like he could actually tank Acno's shit tier attacks let alone an actual kick from him.

Angel learned magic when they got out of jail, the magic she learnt in Zentopia was a gift that was taken away at the end of the arc and it was Coin magic, not Angel magic, so again they had zero progress in prison and they don't even keep zentopia arc upgrades which doesn't matter either way as zentopia is filler.

Yeah they would tossed by Tenrou characters who are all far stronger than their OS versions bar Erza. You have provided nothing to say they gotten stronger besides Mashima needing to give Angel new magic bcs she wouldn't be able to participate in the fight otherwise and Jellal would have only faced 2 out 6 OS members in an up front battle (Midnight didn't participate until the end). I provided canon proof (twice and one was with Cobra) that the magic council doesn't let their prisoners use magic (like any logical prison). That's anti feat for him bcs those guys got beat by OS Team Natsu lol. Midnight the strongest member of OS got stomped by Erza with little effort lol.

Jellal didn't even hurt Jura in that fight and Jura came out with zero scratches lol. He then went straight to Sema to hurt Jura lel. Wouldn't call it a mid diff when no serious blows were exchange and Jura didn't even try.

Durability is a huge factor to consider especially when your opponent has you beat in every stat but one (speed).

I meant he was scared of Sema like he scared of Cana's FG.

Spoiler

Do you think Cana can oneshot Jura? The same Jura who took an onslaught from Laxus and held the majority till the end of the fight?

You mean the same Racer who couldn't tag Erza and could still easily get blitzed by anyone who far out stats him even with his perception magic on?

Hoteye is decent but all they have to do is dodge. His AoE is not huge.

That shitty sticky power and electrocution ribbons f-ed up Mira in BSS and forced to use a stronger soul and Mira would shit stomp OS in base form. H/J >= BSS >>>>>> OS. Are you whacking or what? Juliet was BSS tier which is far above OS tier.

Lmfao, Makarov would straight fodderize OS. The man no sold Amateratsu formula 28 and tanked Amateratsu 100. The same Amateratsu 28 fromula that downed Laxus and almost downed Tartarus Natsu.

Spoiler

His feats far outstrip fodder seis who would have gotten trolled by Jura and Erza together back in OS and solo-ed by either in GMG. This is not to mention that Makarov can still hurt current Base Natsu and he was in a weaker than his true power as stated by Natsu lmao.

Yes, they killed them in an alt future, but the dragons in main timeline were jobbing as hell. These guys were fighting jobber dragons who let them wail on them for sixty minutes until they were sent back. How do I know this? Bcs Motherglare shot off a nuke that would killed everyone there. Fighting an opponent who lets you wail on them is not a feat.

Again Wendy did the same to Zirconis so Wendy's now Laxus tier bcs she did the same amount of damage to Zirconis that Laxus did?

Sting and Rogue were equals in the GMG therefore he scales to all of Sting's feat which Sting was manhandling Natsu and Gajeel for a time until they learned his techniques. That's a hella of a lot better than any of Cobra's feats.

You mean Irene who terraformed a continent and was actually praised for being strong by the King of Dragons himself? Bcs I hope you know she fought a stronger version of Erza who swatted RoT Acno out of the sky lmfao.

Spoiler

I can use Irene feats vs Acno bcs she doesn't have CT plot force protection plan or PoF protecting her. She doesn't bare the FT ally mark does she? So Acno was going at her the same way he was going at her harder than he was God Serena. How do I know this? Bcs he thought she would give him entertainment in a fight and said that she was strong unlike Serena he easily ripped through without even a slight conversation with Serena.

How did I not address this ability? I said it in my last post to @Axiomus. His mind hearing only helps him when the opponent is of equal stats which clearly they are not as Lisanna is a speed type and Juliet was able to tango with BSS which is superior in all stats to Cobra. Cobra couldn't tag Erza without the help of Racer AND Richard. So the ability wasn't effective against Erza and Natsu had to rely on Happy to fight bcs he had motion sickness. If Natsu and Cobra fought without pets then Natsu would have won as Cobra needed to feed from his snake throughout the fight to keep up with Natsu.

 

[Vis]

Cobra's performance against Gajeel, as well as his general portrayal in Road Knight leads me to believe they're at least somewhat comparable.
Though Gajeel was in base, I think this at least puts Cobra above Rogue. So, stops at Elfman, I suppose?

 

[Aurelius]

Can see him reaching later stages, even stage 10. Don't know why there are votes for round 1 unless trolling. Lisanna?? She won't even touch him

 

[grey matter]

May stop at 8 or 9.

Hard stops at 10.

Cobra = UNDERRATED!

x792: In spin off, he was a match to Alverez base Gajeel.
x791: He was mid diffing pre 2nd origins Erza
x784: He mid diff'd x784 base Natsu

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 8, 2020 ---

Very good point! Thinking about it Proxy Wahl will be a crap match up anyway, poison can't really do much to a machine.

Yeah I'm changing my vote, Cobra stops at Proxy Wahl. If it weren't for that (and Historia Wahl) though he would get to round 10 IMO.

He has sound magic as well, shouldn't it be super effective on machines? Considering his fight with Erza, he shattered all her armours.

Also, I don't think he used his poison DS magic to give Brain the Acno treatment

 

[One4All]

Stops at 4 because wahl has counters against Cobra. IMO,the only ones Cobra can't defeat are Zeref,Wahl and maybe Rouge or Elfman.