COME FOR A SCHWING: niichan nag thread

[FrostyMouse]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

Sky, come spam my thread. I need a Part 2.

 

[gnut]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

Sky, come spam my thread. I need a Part 2.

begging is very unattractive chinchilla

 

[FrostyMouse]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

begging is very unattractive chinchilla

Shush, Greg. I want to make it to a second part before two years pass.

 

[xi0]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

Holy shit parts of that are flat...

...nice though

 

[Nii]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

wow ignoring both me and Sky, the bm

 

[Nuno]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

wow ignoring both me and Sky, the bm

Where?

 

[Nii]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

Where?

Here:

I think they're that high because people just value high quality over 50 or 100 episodes a lot, because that's way harder than 12 or 24 episodes. You don't have many shows with a high number of episodes which are able to remain high quality, thus they're cherished a lot.
Regarding FMA, that might be because it's been a long time since you last saw it? I dunno, people tend to rate stuff they saw recently higher quite often, compared to older shows, because memory fades away slowly. To me FMA was a great adaption of a masterpiece. Don't think there's a shounen out there with higher quality, then again like you said it's hard to compare longer running series (and manga) to short ones.

Your skillz are diamond class

Why would it piss me off?

 

[Nuno]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

I think they're that high because people just value high quality over 50 or 100 episodes a lot, because that's way harder than 12 or 24 episodes. You don't have many shows with a high number of episodes which are able to remain high quality, thus they're cherished a lot.
Regarding FMA, that might be because it's been a long time since you last saw it? I dunno, people tend to rate stuff they saw recently higher quite often, compared to older shows, because memory fades away slowly. To me FMA was a great adaption of a masterpiece. Don't think there's a shounen out there with higher quality, then again like you said it's hard to compare longer running series (and manga) to short ones.

I see it as a lot of fanboys of the manga that also just "wow great anime of my manga!!! 10/10!!!" Just think about how many HxH tards that instantly rate the anime superbly? It's worse for Gintama though, even if the anime >> the manga. Just saying, manga adaptations of fan favorite series get a lot of free hype. Look at One Piece...

Not really. FMA just never struck me very deeply. FMA's strong point was its story and ability to keep a great deal of consistency through the entire story. In terms of power scaling etc. it's pretty shallow, but people ignore that because the story was so good and characters were fleshed out perfectly (including villains). The story had a somewhat perfect length, hence the ability to do exactly what was needed to close the story nicely. The story was the focus, on top of the characters being superb. Powers/fighting kind of came secondary in FMA even though there was plenty of it.

Obviously FMA being monthly also speaks in "free favor" for FMA. Most of the "lovers" here only read it when it was close to finishing/finished. They didn't even have to "struggle" through a monthly release for 9 years. I myself read it for 5 I believe. Reading such a long series when it's close to finishing/finished helps it seem even better than it is honestly, since you see everything in "one go". Also you have to consider monthly series produces way less pages than weekly series per month which again works in favor of FMA being more consistent, because the author has more time to produce content. In pure length (page count) of the entire series, it's a relatively middle sized story in terms of length.

Again I'm not trying to downgrade FMA, but just bring it down to being "humanized" and victim to criticism xD It was no doubt a classic and many regard it as the supreme example of flawless shounen storytelling. To me though the anime didn't SUPREMELY enhance the story, and it gained extra hype/praise because it finished almost exactly when the manga did (superb planning from both manga/anime team work). FMA was always nicely planned and told in a "smooth story" hence how consistent and good the story is. But I'm not sure the anime was really undisputed #1, is all.

..........

Why would it piss me off?

Just small jabs at you friend

---------- Post added at 01:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 PM ----------

Dat FrostyMouse like

 

[FrostyMouse]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

Well, the first anime, Nuno, was downright awful and became an anime-original show. The second anime was certainly faithful to the story, on the other hand; however, I wonder how many of the people you labeled 'FMA fanboys' actually watched the first anime. You'll have to remember that I never truly cared for FMA.

 

[Nuno]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

I didn't label anyone fanboys

Hmm, I never had the impression people considered the first anime awful. Opposite actually, IIRC people quite liked it for what it was, although everyone wanted a faithful adaption obviously, which was impossible at the time the first anime came out. The second one was the real deal and was superb at that.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

I didn't label anyone fanboys

Hmm, I never had the impression people considered the first anime awful. Opposite actually, IIRC people quite liked it for what it was, although everyone wanted a faithful adaption obviously, which was impossible at the time the first anime came out. The second one was the real deal and was superb at that.

You did in the first line.

I see it as a lot of fanboys of the manga that also just "wow great anime of my manga!!! 10/10!!!" Just think about how many HxH tards that instantly rate the anime superbly? It's worse for Gintama though, even if the anime >> the manga. Just saying, manga adaptations of fan favorite series get a lot of free hype. Look at One Piece...

Anyway, it was always my impression that people hated the first anime.

 

[Nuno]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

oh no, the unintentional fanboy comment just blurped out of my keyboard! It was actually directed at fans of manga that get adapted in general, and in that case more towards HxH (an anime I have heavily praised), and I gave examples of especially OP having such treatment since the anime is SUPER overrated on MAL, but whatever.

Interesting, maybe I misremember.

 

[Nii]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

I see it as a lot of fanboys of the manga that also just "wow great anime of my manga!!! 10/10!!!" Just think about how many HxH tards that instantly rate the anime superbly? It's worse for Gintama though, even if the anime >> the manga. Just saying, manga adaptations of fan favorite series get a lot of free hype. Look at One Piece...

Not really. FMA just never struck me very deeply. FMA's strong point was its story and ability to keep a great deal of consistency through the entire story. In terms of power scaling etc. it's pretty shallow, but people ignore that because the story was so good and characters were fleshed out perfectly (including villains). The story had a somewhat perfect length, hence the ability to do exactly what was needed to close the story nicely. The story was the focus, on top of the characters being superb. Powers/fighting kind of came secondary in FMA even though there was plenty of it.

Obviously FMA being monthly also speaks in "free favor" for FMA. Most of the "lovers" here only read it when it was close to finishing/finished. They didn't even have to "struggle" through a monthly release for 9 years. I myself read it for 5 I believe. Reading such a long series when it's close to finishing/finished helps it seem even better than it is honestly, since you see everything in "one go". Also you have to consider monthly series produces way less pages than weekly series per month which again works in favor of FMA being more consistent, because the author has more time to produce content. In pure length (page count) of the entire series, it's a relatively middle sized story in terms of length.

Again I'm not trying to downgrade FMA, but just bring it down to being "humanized" and victim to criticism xD It was no doubt a classic and many regard it as the supreme example of flawless shounen storytelling. To me though the anime didn't SUPREMELY enhance the story, and it gained extra hype/praise because it finished almost exactly when the manga did (superb planning from both manga/anime team work). FMA was always nicely planned and told in a "smooth story" hence how consistent and good the story is. But I'm not sure the anime was really undisputed #1, is all.

..........

Wow you just can't keep your answers short when you get serious huh?

Well that's definitely a part of it, but there are many who just came to love the anime and have never even read the manga. I can tell because I've been following discussion on MH and tumblr for years, and there was a big bunch of people who just watched the anime. After around a year and a half more and more people gathered, all going like "Heard so many good things about the anime, gonna check it out.... dayum, such awesome stuff" Quite a few bummed people too, who found out that there are only 9 chapters left they haven't seen yet once the anime ended

Ratings on MAL give a better overview once you take a look at the members (meaning people who've watched the show). Gintama has a rather small but very dedicated fanbase, and there's no doubt that they're going to rate it highly anyway. Then again if the adaption is shitty there's only so much you can reach. The OP anime is awfully overrated but it still has "only" 8.65. Lots of nostalgia and blind fanboyism in there, or people who just don't know what anime actually is capable of, but there are enough reasonable votes to not push it towards the upper top. So in that sense you can be sure that there's certainly something good about a series when it's somewhat close to 9.00 and has a reasonable fanbase. Ofc there are exceptions to the rule and not everything might be your cup of tea, no matter how many like it.

Sure thing, but then you have to wonder why so many monthlies still fail to deliver a good story xD I mean yeah, it's probably easier but writing such a consistent story with high quality is really hard. What I want to say is that it doesn't really matter if a series is monthly or how long it's serialized, but that you need to have a somehow planned out story in your head. With FMA I always had the feeling that the series already had it's plot fully planned since the beginning and that the author knew what she had to do. Just look at Bleach, where Kubo more or less makes up stuff each week.... bleh. That's why I really cherish manga (and their authors) where I always get the feeling that he/she knows what he's doing and is planning ahead all the time.

In any case, I was talking about the anime and now we got into the manga for some reason I joined the manga rather late too, but watched the anime from the beginning, so I think I can judge that one properly. The anime was very well done, but ofc the reason it's rated so highly is because of the original material it's based on, not so much thanks to it's own creativity or whatever.

FMA doesn't have to be the undisputed Nr.1 but it's not going to change, at least not on MAL. Adventure stories simply have the biggest fanbase, so it's no surprise that once a pretty perfect example of that popped up it would remain insanely high rated.

---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 PM ----------

Interesting, maybe I misremember.

You don't, everyone I know enjoyed the first anime. Praised it for a pretty solid anime-original story. Not like people fangasm over the first, but I think it's still held in high regard by many.

---------- Post added at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 PM ----------

man our tl;dr convos are starting to get legendary

 

[Nuno]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

holy shit that tl;dr niichan post

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------

This is why I quit manga discussions. It takes so much time and I can't keep myself short, and then you reply with even longer posts to make my posts ever longer in return!

---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------

Well that's definitely a part of it, but there are many who just came to love the anime and have never even read the manga. I can tell because I've been following discussion on MH and tumblr for years, and there was a big bunch of people who just watched the anime. After around a year and a half more and more people gathered, all going like "Heard so many good things about the anime, gonna check it out.... dayum, such awesome stuff" Quite a few bummed people too, who found out that there are only 9 chapters left they haven't seen yet once the anime ended

Ratings on MAL give a better overview once you take a look at the members (meaning people who've watched the show). Gintama has a rather small but very dedicated fanbase, and there's no doubt that they're going to rate it highly anyway. Then again if the adaption is shitty there's only so much you can reach. The OP anime is awfully overrated but it still has "only" 8.65. Lots of nostalgia and blind fanboyism in there, or people who just don't know what anime actually is capable of, but there are enough reasonable votes to not push it towards the upper top. So in that sense you can be sure that there's certainly something good about a series when it's somewhat close to 9.00 and has a reasonable fanbase. Ofc there are exceptions to the rule and not everything might be your cup of tea, no matter how many like it.

Sure thing, but then you have to wonder why so many monthlies still fail to deliver a good story xD I mean yeah, it's probably easier but writing such a consistent story with high quality is really hard. What I want to say is that it doesn't really matter if a series is monthly or how long it's serialized, but that you need to have a somehow planned out story in your head. With FMA I always had the feeling that the series already had it's plot fully planned since the beginning and that the author knew what she had to do. Just look at Bleach, where Kubo more or less makes up stuff each week.... bleh. That's why I really cherish manga (and their authors) where I always get the feeling that he/she knows what he's doing and is planning ahead all the time.

In any case, I was talking about the anime and now we got into the manga for some reason I joined the manga rather late too, but watched the anime from the beginning, so I think I can judge that one properly. The anime was very well done, but ofc the reason it's rated so highly is because of the original material it's based on, not so much thanks to it's own creativity or whatever.

FMA doesn't have to be the undisputed Nr.1 but it's not going to change, at least not on MAL. Adventure stories simply have the biggest fanbase, so it's no surprise that once a pretty perfect example of that popped up it would remain insanely high rated.

man our tl;dr convos are starting to get legendary

Hmm, those bummed people would come recently since those chapters were for the most part released recently, no?

Well that's the thing about good and FAITHFUL adaptations. HxH and FMA is exactly that, but I'd say HxH likely brings more/enchances the manga more than FMA did. Then again I haven't read the majority of HxH so maybe I'm wrong, but from the parts I have read that's my impression (no I don't just count sketch chapters here).

Meh, OP's anime is extremely unjustified in its placing. The anime is garbage. The series is not. That's probably the best example of fans just upvoting their favorite series on MAL.

I think Arakawa had a very detailed plan for the story. People like Kubo obviously didn't plan past Aizen, which make it seem super sloppy. People like Kishi say he "has the story planned in broad strokes but makes up a lot on more short term basis to fill the holes". Other famous authors like GRRM follow the same mentality actually, but the difference here is that the medium is so different. He takes forever to release his books and thus has "eternity to make it consistent", while Kishi has to spit out chapters every week, and obviously being super inferior in storytelling talent xD I think monthly releases helps in this case no doubt, due to the lesser amount of pages = more time, but no doubt Arakawa had the story well planned out.

Yeah that's true about the fanbase being bigger for adventure demographics. I guess I'm a big fan of refusing to embrace "perfection". To me there are definite flaws in FMA that many ignore, which doesn't take away from how great the story is. The reason I kind of "hit down" on the anime I suppose is because it's fairly "easy" to make a superb adaptation of a manga with already a superb "storyboard", especially with high budget like Bones. I suppose I value the difficulty more when there's more "creativity" in the process.

It's already legendary. We should have our own category for COMAWARD called "best tl;dr discussion partners", since we wouldn't win "best discussion partners" xD

 

[FrostyMouse]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

You don't, everyone I know enjoyed the first anime. Praised it for a pretty solid anime-original story. Not like people fangasm over the first, but I think it's still held in high regard by many.

Hmm, interesting. Well, at the very least, I disliked the whole Dante story. Most of the people I know didn't hate the first anime (although there was a vocal minority that hated the fact that because there was an anime, there had to be an anime-original ending because of the time frame the anime aired in compared to the manga), per se, but they didn't exactly love it either, primarily because of the anime-original story prat.

 

[Nii]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

This is why I quit manga discussions. It takes so much time and I can't keep myself short, and then you reply with even longer posts to make my posts ever longer in return!

Hmm, those bummed people would come recently since those chapters were for the most part released recently, no?

Well that's the thing about good and FAITHFUL adaptations. HxH and FMA is exactly that, but I'd say HxH likely brings more/enchances the manga more than FMA did. Then again I haven't read the majority of HxH so maybe I'm wrong, but from the parts I have read that's my impression (no I don't just count sketch chapters here).

Meh, OP's anime is extremely unjustified in its placing. The anime is garbage. The series is not. That's probably the best example of fans just upvoting their favorite series on MAL.

I think Arakawa had a very detailed plan for the story. People like Kubo obviously didn't plan past Aizen, which make it seem super sloppy. People like Kishi say he "has the story planned in broad strokes but makes up a lot on more short term basis to fill the holes". Other famous authors like GRRM follow the same mentality actually, but the difference here is that the medium is so different. He takes forever to release his books and thus has "eternity to make it consistent", while Kishi has to spit out chapters every week, and obviously being super inferior in storytelling talent xD I think monthly releases helps in this case no doubt, due to the lesser amount of pages = more time, but no doubt Arakawa had the story well planned out.

Yeah that's true about the fanbase being bigger for adventure demographics. I guess I'm a big fan of refusing to embrace "perfection". To me there are definite flaws in FMA that many ignore, which doesn't take away from how great the story is. The reason I kind of "hit down" on the anime I suppose is because it's fairly "easy" to make a superb adaptation of a manga with already a superb "storyboard", especially with high budget like Bones. I suppose I value the difficulty more when there's more "creativity" in the process.

It's already legendary. We should have our own category for COMAWARD called "best tl;dr discussion partners", since we wouldn't win "best discussion partners" xD

Well you managed to make a relativel short post out of that, so I will try too

Ofc they're mostly recently, people started looking at the manga when they heard the anime is ending soon, which was like 10 weeks ago or so Still I think you would be surprised about how many people there are who don't read the manga or haven't until recently.

Yeah, that's true. I think they did a near perfect job with the anime (excluding the while Kite deal), not to mention it's almost three times longer than FMA. Keeping that level of quality and animation for so long is a great task and shows how much they cared for the show.

Indeed, it's heavily overrated. One Piece is overrated in general though, the hype around it always was beyond me. I think it's just like I pointed out with the adventure series though, One Piece simply is the most well known nowadays and people just don't know of the many other great series out there. And with that many people there's bound to be lots of blind fanboyism, it's way worse than Hunter x Hunter. Which reminds me, do you still use MAL?

Not sure I would compare a book to manga. Who knows how GRRM would do if he had to release a chapter weekly, or maybe Kishi would do amazing if he had all the time of the world to come up with a coherent story too. Obviously that's nothing more than speculation, but I find books and manga to be entirely different media and hardly comparable.

Perfection doesn't exist anyway, you can find flaws with everything
I know what you mean, coming up with your own original work or adapting something that's way harder to adapt in a good way (like Steins;Gate) holds kind of more "value". I think it's more than fair to give FMA a high rating, I did too, because we don't really judge how hard it was for the staff to animate the series but rather how much fun we had/how we rate the overall work. It's certainly true that I value original series or stuff like Steins;Gate more highly but I don't give them a better rating (or a worse to the other series) because of that. A great work is a great work, that's what matters the most. I mean we're fans who simply want to have a good time, not some critics who have to analyze every minor thing xD In case it wasn't clear, I agree with you, just saying

 

[Nuno]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

man cmon....

 

[Nii]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

I tried mate, I tried

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

You're just touching to many topics in your post, what am I supposed to do?

 

[Nuno]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

Touché

 

[Nii]

Re: Quest: Clear The Salt Mine!

oh forgot to mention: We're not best discussion partners?

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------

Hmm, interesting. Well, at the very least, I disliked the whole Dante story. Most of the people I know didn't hate the first anime (although there was a vocal minority that hated the fact that because there was an anime, there had to be an anime-original ending because of the time frame the anime aired in compared to the manga), per se, but they didn't exactly love it either, primarily because of the anime-original story prat.

I didn't watch the first anime, so I can't really judge. I would have been annoyed by that fact too, but I guess people still thought the original story wasn't all bad. What matters is that we got a proper remake