Discussion Confused. Is Mael stronger than Ludoshel or not?

[AvatarReiko]

Could someone help a brother out because this subject confuses the hell out of me and there does not appear to be any clear consensus. Originally, Mael with Sunshine was the most hyped AA and even stated to be strongest of the 4. During the Holy War Flashback arc, Ludo even says that they may need to call for Mael.(I don't have the scan) and hypes him

Gowther states that Sunshine Mael = Meliosdas and explains that he memory wiped the former because the latter switch sides and so as not to tip the balance of power between the clan. This is demonstrated in the side chapter where OG Mel(No emotions Ten Commandments Leader Mel) matches Mael's Sunshine and forces Mael to retreat.).

Now, this is where it gets inconsistent. Ludo was revealed in the latest chapters to have a power level of 201k, which is obviously wat stronger than OG Mel's 142k(AKA The Mel that fought Escanor, who Merlin confirmed was equal to his OG self as the Leader of the commandments.

Am I missing something? The only conclusion I can come is that Nakaba simply decided to retcon it all and adjusted the power levels accordingly. This is the easiest explanation without having jump through hoops and do all sorts of crazy mental gymnastics.

EDIT: Unless, "The One Mael>>>Ludoshel>>>Pre-Noon Mael(side chapter) = OG Mel?. That's the only way I kinda of reconcile these conflicting statements, feats and implications.

 

[Arjuna]

First of all Meliodas's power at 142k was incomplete.He was constantly growing stronger leap by bounds.

His true strength is far above 142k.

 

[Seven777]

Because PLs dont mean shit, even at 61k Zeldris was doing way better than the masters, who are both almost triple that. AM Meliodas also did far better than the Masters against Escanor.
So it doesnt matter whether Mel is still his 142k or beyond, because even Zeldris at 61k can put Ludo on his ass.
So the order is Near-Noon Mael>Meliodas>Ludo>Mael

 

[TarXan]

I mean it was stated several times he’s the strongest AA in general, we just need to know his base but as of right now with the Sun Grace mid morning/towards noon he’s easily the strongest non deity character

Mael with no Grace simply has the most potential + talent in his clan

 

[OtakuFreak]

Mael's statement about how Elizabeth and Ludoshel were comparable in power to him suggests that unless its late morning to noon than the Goddess brothers should be equal to each other.

Noon/Late Morning Mael > Ludoshel > Mael without sun

Given Ludoshel's status as the Leader of the Four Archangels, without sun active then I believe Ludoshel could be more powerful than Mael, though they would still be very comparable to each other in strength.

 

[the powerscaller]

Mael is stronger even at base or else why would he have ever got the sun grace the strongest grace . It would have been given to ludo if he was stronger.
Ludo's base- 201000
Mael 's base- more than 201000
It was also said by ludo that when mael was young ludo said that he will surpass him as he has the potential at that time ludo never knew that he was going to get sun grace. so mael is stronger.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Mael is stronger even at base or else why would he have ever got the sun grace the strongest grace . It would have been given to ludo if he was stronger.
Ludo's base- 201000
Mael 's base- more than 201000
It was also said by ludo that when mael was young ludo said that he will surpass him as he has the potential at that time ludo never knew that he was going to get sun grace. so mael is stronger.

That's why I said Ludoshel and Mael were very comparable in strength to each other without the influence of sun.

PL-wise Mael's base may be higher but I believe Ludoshel's combat ability would exceed Mael given he has ''Flash'' that can be active at all moments.

 

[TarXan]

Mael is stronger even at base or else why would he have ever got the sun grace the strongest grace . It would have been given to ludo if he was stronger.
Ludo's base- 201000
Mael 's base- more than 201000
It was also said by ludo that when mael was young ludo said that he will surpass him as he has the potential at that time ludo never knew that he was going to get sun grace. so mael is stronger.

Chill

That’d be fucking ridiculous, he’d be impossible to beat

I think Mael is 100k to 150k base , then he surpasses 200k around 10:30 to 11:00

11:00+ anybody Ludociel level or below is getting fodderized

That's why I said Ludoshel and Mael were very comparable in strength to each other without the influence of sun.

PL-wise Mael's base may be higher but I believe Ludoshel's combat ability would exceed Mael given he has ''Flash'' that can be active at all moments.

A 200k base Mael would make no fucking sense, he’d erase literally everyone when the Sun comes out

Ludociel would literally get fodderized by 8AM

 

[kkck]

Odds are that mael is stronger than ludociel only at noon. If base mael somewhat higher than his estarosa persona and his sun boost is the same as escanor's then him being a check on ten commandments meliodas makes sense and would only clock higher than ludociel during that one minute at noon.

 

[OtakuFreak]

A 200k base Mael would make no fucking sense, he’d erase literally everyone when the Sun comes out

Ludociel would literally get fodderized by 8AM

Look at Escanor. Near noon he is able to duel against the masters and other top tier characters and this is when he's the weakest character in the series without sun.

Mael being that strong with sun would make some sense, as the Supreme Deity. Elizabeth and the Four Archangels were able to keep the balance against the Demon Clan despite them having more warriors and military options.

Plus, if Mael's base is considerably weaker than Ludoshel's then why did the Supreme Deity not give the Leader of the Four Archangels sun then?

Mael's base has to be comparable to Ludoshel's.

 

[kkck]

Look at Escanor. Near noon he is able to duel against the masters and other top tier characters and this is when he's the weakest character in the series without sun.

Mael being that strong with sun would make some sense, as the Supreme Deity. Elizabeth and the Four Archangels were able to keep the balance against the Demon Clan despite them having more warriors and military options.

Plus, if Mael's base is considerably weaker than Ludoshel's then why did the Supreme Deity not give the Leader of the Four Archangels sun then?

Mael's base has to be comparable to Ludoshel's.

That wouldn't really fit into the narrative that mael surpassed ludociel at noon though. Which to be fair is a plausible scenario. And ludociel is definitely that arrogant. On the other hand if their base are similar and you add sunshine then mael would definitely at a minimum clock at a much higher pl than ludociel, just look how strong escanor is at dawn...

 

[Jackjohsnon]

That wouldn't really fit into the narrative that mael surpassed ludociel at noon though

Such a narrative doesn't exist. The only thing Ludo made clear was that he had no hope of matching Mael at noon. This implies that there is a great difference of power in this period, not that Mael overcomes Ludociel only during the noon.
Let's be consistent, Demon Mark Meliodas is probably stronger than Ludociel. AM Mel is much stronger than Ludociel since he was able to easily dominate Zeldris. Base Eli should be around 200K and 8 wings Eli should be around AM Meliodas level. If Mael gets 114K near noon, it would not be inconsistent that he has a 200K base.

 

[lindananahayashida]

Such a narrative doesn't exist. The only thing Ludo made clear was that he had no hope of matching Mael at noon. This implies that there is a great difference of power in this period, not that Mael overcomes Ludociel only during the noon.
Let's be consistent, Demon Mark Meliodas is probably stronger than Ludociel. AM Mel is much stronger than Ludociel since he was able to easily dominate Zeldris. Base Eli should be around 200K and 8 wings Eli should be around AM Meliodas level. If Mael gets 114K near noon, it would not be inconsistent that he has a 200K base.

I never saw 8 wings eli. A side story?

 

[OtakuFreak]

I never saw 8 wings eli. A side story?

Elizabeth revealed these wings during her battle with the Indura. As we know, Goddess wings express the individual's strength so Elizabeth temporarily reaching 8 technically proves her to be very powerful.

In my opinion, these ''light wings'' are simply a temporary power-up that work in the same way as a second demonic mark, allowing Elizabeth to surpass her base or perhaps empower a single spell. I heavily doubt that these light wings are merely for an aesthetic effect, given Nakaba-sensei had her express 4 during the battle against Hendrickson and 8 against the Indura's.

Spoiler: 208

Spoiler: 208

 

[sobreno]

Elizabeth revealed these wings during her battle with the Indura. As we know, Goddess wings express the individual's strength so Elizabeth temporarily reaching 8 technically proves her to be very powerful.

In my opinion, these ''light wings'' are simply a temporary power-up that work in the same way as a second demonic mark, allowing Elizabeth to surpass her base or perhaps empower a single spell. I heavily doubt that these light wings are merely for an aesthetic effect, given Nakaba-sensei had her express 4 during the battle against Hendrickson and 8 against the Indura's.

Spoiler: 208

Spoiler: 208

Lmao, that was just her light, she never had 8 true wings.

You are wanking way too hard lmao.

All the high ranked Goddesses have 4 wings.

 

[sobreno]

Like Tarmiel and Supreme Deity?

The SD is a Deity, therefore she has 10 true wings.

Tarmiel has 6 little wings to compensate for 4 big wings.

 

[Gut's is the man]

I say Mael is infact stronger. The commandments just eat away at a great deal of his natural Goddess power so the combined total was actually less then his normal power and he kept getting weaker the long the commandments remained with him leading to his curbstomp by Harlequin.

 

[lindananahayashida]

Elizabeth revealed these wings during her battle with the Indura. As we know, Goddess wings express the individual's strength so Elizabeth temporarily reaching 8 technically proves her to be very powerful.

In my opinion, these ''light wings'' are simply a temporary power-up that work in the same way as a second demonic mark, allowing Elizabeth to surpass her base or perhaps empower a single spell. I heavily doubt that these light wings are merely for an aesthetic effect, given Nakaba-sensei had her express 4 during the battle against Hendrickson and 8 against the Indura's.

Spoiler: 208

Spoiler: 208

Im guessing,
That form > Rue / Mael (11am)

Cool!

 

[the powerscaller]

Deity, therefore? Is that supposedly an argumemt? The definition of the deity is not clear for now, and the meaning of words like god, deity, etc are not identical to those found in holy books.

I know about the size of Tarmiel's wings, but it still debunks your assumption.

SD is the strongest of her clan that's why she has 10 gigantic wings.
Tar has 6 wings which are very small because he is one of the weakest four archangels

 

[PeanutButterJelly]

The SD is a Deity, therefore she has 10 true wings.

Tarmiel has 6 little wings to compensate for 4 big wings.

Nerobasta,Jenna ,Zaneri(flashback) and Jalamet( Side story) had only one pair of wings.