Discussion Crews strength - what you expect from now on

[KingOfNight]

Yes and no.
VA's that aren't so overwhelming or should we say "Lesser VA's" to be as accurate as possible.
From evidence in the manga:

Lesser VA's: Mozambia, Smoker, Maynard, John Giant* and Ronse* are the only ones we can confirm as not so great.

I mean, Whitebeard one-punched John Giant and Ronse but I don't know if that means they're weak...
How many can take the Quake punch full impact and not be unconscious?
Lacroix lost to Oars Jr. but Oars Jr. would have destroyed a lot of people in a one-on-one so I don't know if that makes him weak either.

Greater VA's: Onigumo, Momonga, Dalmatian,

Other VA's whose strength cannot be confirmed: Tsuru, Comil, Cancer, Bastille, Stainless, Doberman, Strawberry and Yamakiji.

The balance all depends on how weak you think it makes someone if WB one-punches them with a Quake at point-blank range.
Otherwise the balance isn't too bad. There are lesser VA's and Greater VA's right?

John and Ronse shouldn't be so weak. But not so tough either. Tough characters don't usually get the fodder treatment like that. I mean, sure it's WB...but you get that feeling of a fodder when they shout a sneak attack and think they can actually take out WB.

I have no idea who Lacroix is, but I gonna take your word about it and assume he's like Ronse and John .

I still don't understand why you would think Stainless and Strawberry are tough. Both at one point were toyed with.

Still, the lesser is dominant. The greater is like three...

Actually, we know Strawberry got injured. We don't know he lost let alone by a massive margin.
He most likely simply lost. And One Piece should teach you that over decades, people's strength can increase insanely. Its impossible to base Vice Admiral Strawberry's current strength on the strength he had ages ago way back when he was a Rear Admiral. Way back when Kizaru wasn't even Admiral.
Like Sanji and Vergo. Sanji's leg was hurt and all but nobody really lost.

You can assume how the battle went when someone is unscathed while the other is horribly beaten. I still don't understand why you would think he's tough. Maybe he is in the first half of Grand Line, but not the NW.
Sanji and Vergo situation was different. The battle didn't continue and it's not like Sanji was beaten horribly to the point of acknowledging Vergo superiority.

 

[llaubacher]

Well continue here :

You're calling me a dreamer, but the things you say in your reply makes my day very...very sad. You think Grizzly Magnum will defeat Jinbi who one-shot Moria when he was a giant, sent flying another giant several times bigger than Grizzly Magnum as well as block Akainu's punch without being fazed. Who's the dreamer here exactly ?

Luffy > Ace because of Haki ? Why ? So Busoshoku which was too weak to guard against Hody's teeth will block an Island buster ? So Luffy is stronger than Jinbi who even though was able to touch Ace, couldn't defeat him ? One of Luffy's strongest attacks is not even half as powerful as some of Ace's weakest attacks. Offense wise, Luffy is insanely inferior.

You're apparently one of those who believe Haki makes Luffy an awesome, unstoppable G. Well it doesn't. Haki doesn't mean anything in the new world.

Did not see this here, took me time to notice. I only call things with right names, ya fathom?

I agree, I am one of those who believe that after Luffy's haki mastering, he's grown quite a lot in the regard of power. Now he can compete with people he could not before. On the other side, I am not saying that he's god-like now, so chill. Yet, I have not used word such as "unstopable", where're ya pullin this from?

Right, Jimbei would get knocked down after getting hit by Grizzly Magnum. So what he has sent Moria flying? Like if Luffy before TS did not? With much more efforts though, yeah.

So Jimbei is stronger than Luffy? Let me tell you that Luffy himself stated that he's weak due to the water which was weakening him a bit, or am I wrong? Yet, you must accept that he is the main character of the story, of course he's bound to get stronger and stronger. Yet, Jimbei's accepted to join his crew. Aren't captains the ones covering their crews? No? Whatever you say, I will argue no more about this because I am right, accept it or don't but keep ya lips sealed 'bout this one. And you mean the shot which burn-pierced through him?

While talking about stuffs I have uttered, pay attention. Don't just type that I said something I actually did not even write, things you come up with are not my words.

Cheers. Ah, and be less offensive, maybe? Just 'coz 'ya don't share da same opinion does not give you rights to be rude, right?

Sanji has done so little in Part II I thnk its wrong for us to say he is equal to Jinbei just yet.
Not saying its impossible though.

I agree dude, however I think that at the current state, only Luffy and Zoro are above Jimbei from the Strawhats. Sanji will get there after Yonko arc, IMO. But you could be right! ^^

 

[Sproumfch]

Guys, just to state Luffy's strenght now, we only have this :

Spoiler

http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/702/6

So Fujitora (an Admiral so more or less Kizaru/Akainu/kuzan level, right?) says "I think that for BOTH OUR SAKES it would be unwise to tell you that".
Does he says it because he know Luffy is with 4 of his mates? Or because he knows that Luffy is so strong that it would be hard even for him (Fujitora) to defeat Luffy.
I think the second possibility is the good one.
Oda made this 2 years skip to allow Luffy and the crew to train and only train while other Pirates (mainly the Supernovas) were trying to survive in the NW.
So obviously, Luffy IS stronger than the other Supernovas, Law inclued. For other Pirates (like DD) we don't know now, but I'm sure Oda will give us some hints (like Diamante thinking when fighting Luffy "He's so strong, we have no chance !!").

I'd also like to state that Jimbey/Luffy/Ace thing.
Let's say Ace try to kill Luffy. First, he can't touch him, Luffy is TOO FAST. Point. Then, you don't need strong offensive Haki to touch logia's body (Luffy can fight Cesar, remember). So, Luffy is so fast that he can come in his behind and stomp him.
Same goes for Jimbey : if Luffy goes gear 2 he can't touch him, even with observation Haki (we saw the Snake sisters on Women Island not be able to keep Luffy's speed even with Haki. And that was two years ago : he's much more faster now).
Moreover, Luffy is STRONG. We all know it.
Well now it was just logic guys. Remember, Luffy is FAST.

 

[kkck]

Well, to be fair, remember when ace first got into WB's ship? Ace, someone who could at the time already fight evenly with freaking jinbe, would attack WB in his sleep without anyone so much as paying attention and WB would still wake up halfway through the attack and beat the crap out of ace. THAT is the sort of monster WB was. A shichibukai candidate and a match for jinbe was worthless fodder to him. For all we know those giant VAs could be stronger than current luffy and WB would have still won that easily....

 

[Ninomiya]

Yeah that logic makes sense actually, that Luffy being trained by Rayleigh for 2 years makes him stronger than the other Supernova's but with Kid and Law not far behind.
Oda purposely had those 3 together at Sabaody to sort of show they'd be the key guys climbing up to the top at a similar rate.

But you behave as if Jinbei and Ace can only land physical hits. They don't need to "touch" Luffy since they can fire shots from long range anyway.
I think Luffy is stronger than Ace but the margin isn't big at all. Just think how seriously weak Luffy & Co. were back in Part I.

And seriously I have to just telly you that the second possibility isn't a possibility...
There isn't a chance Luffy can beat an Admiral or fight on necessarily even grounds with an Admiral just yet.

Fujitora isn't terrified of fighting Luffy, it has to be because he knows full well how dangerous Luffy's influence is in the Grand Line.
Luffy's a Den Den Mushi away from getting Jinbei and all his fish bros, Law & Crew, Rayleight etc.

Not to mention Fujitora being an Admiral wouldn't feel right if they didn't kick the ass and living daylights out of a Pirate whenever they head to areas with Pirates so he knows he would have his hands full if he focused on one strong guy when there are tons of strong dudes in Dressrosa.

I doubt Luffy can truly fight an Admiral and be on an even level just yet.

THAT is the sort of monster WB was. A shichibukai candidate and a match for jinbe was worthless fodder to him. For all we know those giant VAs could be stronger than current luffy and WB would have still won that easily....

That's what people are forgetting.
He one punched Ronse and John Giant, but when he used that same punch just twice, didn't he send Sakaizuki into a painful place for a while?
Granted Sakaizuki is a gotdamn tank (who I believe will kill the current Luffy without question) and he Borsalino and Kuzan cannot be compared to others but its possible the current Luffy could be wrecked after just one WB Quake-punch.

Especially if WB can walk all over Ace who is equal to Jinbei. It means that it doesn't prove at all how strong or weak John Giant and Ronse the VA's are, which proves the point that the VA's aren't weak.

 

[kkck]

Luffy wouldn't hold a candle to an admiral... so far the manga has shown that luffy is at best slightly stronger than jinbe and even he could not quite properly defend himself from akainu (although he did a better job than ace). Luffy is very strong right now but admirals are potential challenges to a yonko (admirals are if I recall the only people who WB could not one shot during the war so far). Luffy has to become several times stronger before he can challenge an admiral IMO. As things are it would take the 3 members of the monster trio at least for them to be a proper challenge to an admiral (although it is true we have no idea of how strong fujitora is).

 

[Ninomiya]

(although it is true we have no idea of how strong fujitora is).

I totally agree with your post, but there are so many people on MH who overrate the Monster Trio that I hold back, but honestly Borsalino, Sakaizuki and Kuzan could still hand put Luffy in his place.
With Issho, I guess its hard to tell, but I'm assuming he is just a tad weaker than the 3 of them.

Since he must be near their strength the way Sakaizuki didn't even give any of the VA's a thought on who should take the Admiral role.
He decided on who should be the new Admiral on the spot with pure confidence and no hesitation so Fujitora has to be the real deal.

It must be that Issho is known as someone just a tiny bit below the 3Admirals and probably famously strong in New World and the situation is that he didn't get Admiral because the other 3 were stronger than him by a margin and no other reason.
That's what I reckon. I strongly doubt Oda would hand the Admiral title to a weakling.

Its still Coby's dream remember so Oda's not going to make the eventual dreams of his characters into a weak title.

 

[Sproumfch]

@Airgrimes
I think Luffy would loose to Akainu but he would give him a hard time.
Against Kizaru, his strenght + observation Haki will allow Luffy to block his attacks and size him. But it may be the only on to win against Luffy's speed.
Kuzan should be hard one : we saw that with haki you can block his ice (DD vs him) but I don't think that Luffy's haki is strong enought to handle a body freezing.

For Fujitora, there is a big chance that he will battle against the SH or Law (I don't see the main vilain, DD, being captured by Marines, it's always Luffy who finishes the big one). Remember the last battle of the SH before timeskip : beaten by an admiral (with or without Pacifistas, right?).
So I'm sure there is a reason why an Admiral apears when the Sh get really in the New World. I think the SH will make their mess on DressRosa, beating DD n stuff, but they will also stand against an Admiral. Then Marines & the world will know that they are powerfull and can face the strongest Marines. It's not given to anyone.
I don't say that they will win against him, but just be more or less equal (I'm speaking about the Monster Trio, not Luffy alone : it's hard for him to fight a swordman). I really can see Zoro & Sanji fighting Fujitora. Otherwive we would never have say theseswords.

Again for Ace, I know he has greater destructive powers than Luffy, but if they had to fight now Luffy would win. Because of his speed, his strenght and his Haki.

 

[vagabond87]

Luffy wouldn't hold a candle to an admiral... so far the manga has shown that luffy is at best slightly stronger than jinbe and even he could not quite properly defend himself from akainu (although he did a better job than ace). Luffy is very strong right now but admirals are potential challenges to a yonko (admirals are if I recall the only people who WB could not one shot during the war so far). Luffy has to become several times stronger before he can challenge an admiral IMO. As things are it would take the 3 members of the monster trio at least for them to be a proper challenge to an admiral (although it is true we have no idea of how strong fujitora is).

I do not share your way of seeing Luffys current combat power- he should hold his ground against Admiral better than Ace after he gotten free from cuffs as Ace was able to hold off Aokiji for a moment, same as Marco in his clashes with Admirals and Jozu in his fight with Aokiji.
Luffy is not weaker than them. He is around Doflamingo/ Ace strength by all means. You seem to be downgrading strength of Strawhats.

 

[kkck]

I do not share your way of seeing Luffys current combat power- he should hold his ground against Admiral better than Ace after he gotten free from cuffs as Ace was able to hold off Aokiji for a moment, same as Marco in his clashes with Admirals and Jozu in his fight with Aokiji.
Luffy is not weaker than them. He is around Doflamingo/ Ace strength by all means. You seem to be downgrading strength of Strawhats.

Equal to doflamingo, the guy who basically foderized smoker? I have a few doubts about that one. Ace did not even appear to be even with marco or jozu for that matter. The top 3 in WB's crew did well more than just handle a single attack from the admirals, they were actually able to push them back. In turn ace lasted about 3 seconds against akainu. Its not even about an elemental advantage, jinbe is perfectly ordinary in those terms and he did significantly better than ace against akainu (he was actually able to block akainu's attack's). Doflamingo as far as we have seen is a monster to the point where oda made it so that 2 supernova crews were going after him....

 

[David Rose]

To Ace vs. Akainu:

I think i most likely is all about the elemental advantage. When Jinbei blocked the attack he also took much damage, but he was completely aware of that. When Ace clashed with Akainu he wasn't prepared at all. Also we can assume that it's his fighting style to use his logia power for blocking and attacking, so he was simply overwhelmed.
That he died in the end was more likely Luffys "fault". But i think the one thing Oda wanted to show off is that elemental relationsships trump the powel level. And Akainu was far more powerfull than Ace, given the fatigue at that time (one rested, the other one incarcerated in the most brutal prison for weeks), and their overall combat ability.
Also Aokiji batteled Akainu for about 3 days (if i recall it correctly). So it seems there is a big difference in Ice blocking magma and fire blocking magma. You could also say Akainu vs. Ace is like Enel vs. Luffy. :P


I don't think there will be any clash between Fujitora and Luffy, or the strawhats. I bet Fujitora is some of those guys who sees the good things in people and thus will come to the conclusion to let them slip in some way. There might be a dramatic conversation between him and Luffy, tho, when he comes to rescue Law from DD. :P

 

[Ninomiya]

I do not share your way of seeing Luffys current combat power- he should hold his ground against Admiral better than Ace after he gotten free from cuffs as Ace was able to hold off Aokiji for a moment, same as Marco in his clashes with Admirals and Jozu in his fight with Aokiji.
Luffy is not weaker than them. He is around Doflamingo/ Ace strength by all means. You seem to be downgrading strength of Strawhats.

He held him off for a second though. We don't know how that would have went afterwards.

Lets put it this way. WB can effortlessly take out Ace. Without even trying.
Whereas he delivered Quake after Quake to Akainu, yet he just rose back up afterwards.

Even if Luffy is above Ace, you're overrating Luffy way out of proportion.
We don't even know Doflamingo's real strength at all so where are you basing it that Luffy and Doflamingo are equal then??

If so, why would Oda create an arc which involves Law AND Luffy tryinig to take on Dofla?
You're underrating Dofla greatly.

Luffy is strong, but an Admiral??
The Admirals were actually stronger than the WB Commanders slightly.
IT takes a Yonkou to be able to beat an Admiral.

So are you saying you see Luffy on equal grounds with an Admiral right now?
I think he could give them a good fight but there is no chance Luffy is beating Kuzan, Borsalino or Sakaizuki. And we have no idea how to measuer Issho's strength just yet so its really baseless if anybody wants to say they think Luffy can beat him.

 

[vagabond87]

@Agrimes- please read my posts with care, I dont want to explain same things twice as reply when you seem to ignore part of what I wrote. I didnt stated that Luffy is on even level as admirals, all I said was that he is as strong as top of Whitebeard commanders- Marco, Ace and Jozu. So he has chances of holding his ground against Admiral. As for how Doflamingo is in this- for me he seems to be below Admiral as he didnt wanted to risk all out fight with Aokiji that might have ended up with his death. So I see Doflamingo as someone with enough strength to fight and win with any person that was shown to be weaker than Admiral or overwhelmed by one. Beside I see differently involvement of Law and Luffy against one enemy- Doflamingo. If they were to beat him up two of them would try to do it. For me most probably Law will be used as kind of estimating stick when it comes to Luffys power as Law will be first one to fight with Doflamingo and slightly loose fight, at end of Dressrosa Luffy would be shown beating up Doflamingo so he would be confirmed as Supernova stronger than Law.
Im not underrating Dofla greatly but only saying that he can go against Admiral and win- he has some chances but not great really as for example Akainu who kkck likes to use when comparing Admirals to Luffy wasnt holded off by anyone during war- nor all WB commanders + Crocodile - Jozu and Ace nor even Whitebeard beaten him up to KO state.

@Kkck- Fodderizing Smoker sound just silly if its written by person with such wide perspective when it comes to seeing things in One Piece as you. This motiv was already explained by me when I exchanged words with KinightofNight few posts back so I wont write same things over and over when somebody doesnt bother to read thread. Ace was after long torture and far from his healthy state- his card is proof enough, Aces "life energy" was already badly burned up when Luffy was still on Amazon Lily. So keep in mind that Ace was far from state that Jimbei or any of Whiteberad commaders "pushing back Admirals" were. As for Akainu he is really not good example to compare him to Luffy as he has one of most dangerous.

As for Whitebeard defeating Ace easily- Ace gotten considerably stronger after he joined Whitebeard pirates and roamed seas in Whitebeards name. Beside Ace was younger and after 5 days of fighting with Jimbei when WB took him easily out.

To be honest Im gettin tired of this thread as I already stated few times what(and why) I think about Strawhats combat power and it seems that I differ in opinion with quite a few people. If someone has question that I didnt answered before then... I will answer in PM, Im writing this as Im out of this discussion so nobody will feel ignored.

 

[Ninomiya]

@Agrimes- please read my posts with care, I dont want to explain same things twice as reply when you seem to ignore part of what I wrote. I didnt stated that Luffy is on even level as admirals, all I said was that he is as strong as top of Whitebeard commanders- Marco, Ace and Jozu.

This is still one heck of an assumption.
Maybe Jozu since he lost his arm. But I dunno about Marco and Vista dude.

So he has chances of holding his ground against Admiral. As for how Doflamingo is in this- for me he seems to be below Admiral as he didnt wanted to risk all out fight with Aokiji that might have ended up with his death. So I see Doflamingo as someone with enough strength to fight and win with any person that was shown to be weaker than Admiral or overwhelmed by one. Beside I see differently involvement of Law and Luffy against one enemy- Doflamingo. If they were to beat him up two of them would try to do it. For me most probably Law will be used as kind of estimating stick when it comes to Luffys power as Law will be first one to fight with Doflamingo and slightly loose fight, at end of Dressrosa Luffy would be shown beating up Doflamingo so he would be confirmed as Supernova stronger than Law.

This is your theory. Sure Luffy is extremely strong right now but we can't gauge Dofla's full strength just yet since we've never seen him go anything close to all-out.
Like I said, unless Luffy is going to reveal like a new move or show some new improvement, I don't really see him beating Doflamingo who comfortably fodderized a lot of top characters. Without even fighting, just simply moving his fingers around quickly.

Im not underrating Dofla greatly but only saying that he can go against Admiral and win- he has some chances but not great really as for example Akainu who kkck likes to use when comparing Admirals to Luffy wasnt holded off by anyone during war- nor all WB commanders + Crocodile - Jozu and Ace nor even Whitebeard beaten him up to KO state.

Well it doesn't matter who kkck uses as an example besides Fujitora actually.
Kuzan, Borsalino and Sakaizuki will all kick Luffy's ass without question.
If you think Marco was able to kick Kizaru hard enough to send him places and Jozu was good enough to make Aokiji's lip bleed just think if you can really and truly see Luffy causing injuries to those 3.
I don't think he'll make Kizaru's jacket drop off his shoulders.

Marco and Jozu weren't able to deal out a major injury to either Aokiji nor Kizaru. So I must say its not like Luffy can hold them off unless its in a frantic situation like the war where both characters have to be wary of their surroundings to due to interferences and the 1000+ soldiers on both sides respectively and their allies and whatnot.

In a one-on-one Luffy just gets a miserable death up against Aokiji or Kizaru surely.
Don't get me wrong Luffy is my fav. character so I'm not even being biased.

As for Whitebeard defeating Ace easily- Ace gotten considerably stronger after he joined Whitebeard pirates and roamed seas in Whitebeards name. Beside Ace was younger and after 5 days of fighting with Jimbei when WB took him easily out.

Feel free to re-read or re-watch the Marineford arc.
Marco states that Ace kept on trying and trying even after he was healed up from fighting Jinbei. He kept on trying and trying loads of times way after the Jinbei fight.

To be honest Im gettin tired of this thread as I already stated few times what(and why) I think about Strawhats combat power and it seems that I differ in opinion with quite a few people. If someone has question that I didnt answered before then... I will answer in PM, Im writing this as Im out of this discussion so nobody will feel ignored.

Nobody's forcing you to stay so I guess its cool and respect that you're letting us know you wouldn't ignore people, but honestly what you've stated has been far too strongly assumption based.
Your theory on Luffy being on Dofla's level, since that's basically what you're saying, doesn't have enough to base it on.
Saying he is as strong as WB's Commanders who are in other words some of the best Pirates in the series is all unknown right now. I don't see Luffy beating Marco.
He has kicks that can send Kizaru into a good distance. Luffy isn't sending Kizaru flying just yet for example.

 

[David Rose]

I think Vagabond really meant, that Ace had gotten stronger after he joined WB and accepted him as a father. Since this would most likely be a much larger time span compared to his murder attempts, Ace really became much stronger. He also made his way from nobody to the 2nd Commander, which indicates a huge growth in itself.

To Luffys combat power: It just came to me that Luffy truly is superior to most human enemies. There was this topic and discussion about him beeing stronger than a VA. Well, what i didn't really comprehend until the brawl with Smoker (in Tashi's body) is his huge advantage, when it comes to Rokushiki.
We know every VA is cabaple of that and most other strong fighters. One of the powers is Soru, which even Coby can use.
The advantage of Luffy is his ability to use Soru fluently for general movement, when in gear 2, and not as a move in the way of displaying it's name. He simply flies around with it and thus should be able to outmaneuver any normal human enemy.

The combination of his fluent Soru, gear 2 and Haki should make it kinda hard to get a hit on him in a fist-fight. :P

Just sayin. Dunno if it has any current relevance :P

 

[Ninomiya]

I think Vagabond really meant, that Ace had gotten stronger after he joined WB and accepted him as a father. Since this would most likely be a much larger time span compared to his murder attempts, Ace really became much stronger. He also made his way from nobody to the 2nd Commander, which indicates a huge growth in itself.

If so, then it would make the Ace and Jinbei being equal point an invalid one at that, if he suddenly gained massive growth on WB's ship. Which he probably did.
In fact, after joining WB and getting the Flame Flame Fruit, Ace was most likely stronger than Jinbei since he was equal with him without WB's leadership and his DF.

Luffy being above the old Ace, I think he really is only slightly above. The gap was massive between them before.

To Luffys combat power: It just came to me that Luffy truly is superior to most human enemies. There was this topic and discussion about him beeing stronger than a VA. Well, what i didn't really comprehend until the brawl with Smoker (in Tashi's body) is his huge advantage, when it comes to Rokushiki.
We know every VA is cabaple of that and most other strong fighters. One of the powers is Soru, which even Coby can use.

Luffy being stronger than VA's is a fair statement. He could edge out the strongest VA's probably. Whilst his pre-time-skip self most probably couldn't fight any of the VA's.

The advantage of Luffy is his ability to use Soru fluently for general movement, when in gear 2, and not as a move in the way of displaying it's name. He simply flies around with it and thus should be able to outmaneuver any normal human enemy.

The combination of his fluent Soru, gear 2 and Haki should make it kinda hard to get a hit on him in a fist-fight. :P

Just sayin. Dunno if it has any current relevance :P

Actually, it seems Premonition Haki makes certain levels of Speed less relevant.
Remember how Kizaru can still be hit by Marco, although Kizaru is the fastest in the series, that just means ANYBODY can be hit in One Piece.
Just the fact that Rayleigh and Kizaru were engaged in a swordfight and whatnot.

The Admirals will comfortably beat Luffy. Granted it makes him out of reach for those below him, against those above Luffy or at his level, he will still be possible to hit.

 

[vagabond87]

If so, then it would make the Ace and Jinbei being equal point an invalid one at that, if he suddenly gained massive growth on WB's ship. Which he probably did.
In fact, after joining WB and getting the Flame Flame Fruit, Ace was most likely stronger than Jinbei since he was equal with him without WB's leadership and his DF.

He had his Mera Mera fruit when he fought Jimbei before joining Whitebeard pirates. Check your sources before posting soon after some other people will post/ discuss more then you will come into conclusion that I was closer to "truth" than you and you will understand why I backed off this discussion.

 

[Ninomiya]

He had his Mera Mera fruit when he fought Jimbei before joining Whitebeard pirates. Check your sources before posting soon after some other people will post/ discuss more then you will come into conclusion that I was closer to "truth" than you and you will understand why I backed off this discussion.

Thanks there. I made a mistake.
And no. You're aren't any closer to the "truth".
Its already been accepted that Luffy can be stronger than Ace, and that he's stronger than Jinbei.

As it remains, you've given nothing to prove Luffy can suddenly fight on the same grounds as an Admiral like you earlier implied.
You also said Luffy isn't weaker than Marco and Doflamingo. Another baseless statement.

That's a pretty strawman thing to end with too. "soon after some people will post". Since as the chapters go on, more information will be revealed, and therefore people's theories will have to change since we might get more info on character's strengths so it would then be a different context.
As it is no, we don't know if Luffy is equal to Marco or Doflamingo.
Luffy can't even hurt Marco since he can heal right back up as long as nobody throws Seastone at him.
Marco > Luffy atm.

 

[Schabrak]

If Luffy is nowhere near the top brass of WB/the other Yonkou, he has no place in the New World, not at all. Not saying as strong as Sakazuki, probably around Doflamingo if in total rage, but I don't think he is really equal to Mingo right now, not yet.

 

[jaymizzo]

If Luffy is nowhere near the top brass WB/the other Yonkou, he has no place in the New World, not at all. Not saying as strong as Sakazuki, probably around Doflamingo if in total rage, but I don't think he is really equal to Mingo right now, not yet.

Your post is very confusing. Are you saying that you expect Luffy to be near WBs level but at the same time you dont expect him to be equal to Mingo?