Discussion Crews strength - what you expect from now on

[Schabrak]

No, their top commanders, lost a "of" in there.

 

[vagabond87]

Thanks there. I made a mistake.
And no. You're aren't any closer to the "truth".
Its already been accepted that Luffy can be stronger than Ace, and that he's stronger than Jinbei.

As it remains, you've given nothing to prove Luffy can suddenly fight on the same grounds as an Admiral like you earlier implied.
You also said Luffy isn't weaker than Marco and Doflamingo. Another baseless statement.

That's a pretty strawman thing to end with too. "soon after some people will post". Since as the chapters go on, more information will be revealed, and therefore people's theories will have to change since we might get more info on character's strengths so it would then be a different context.
As it is no, we don't know if Luffy is equal to Marco or Doflamingo.
Luffy can't even hurt Marco since he can heal right back up as long as nobody throws Seastone at him.
Marco > Luffy atm.

You start to post some stuff that gets on my nerves. I do not like discrediting me by simplyfying and bending my statements.
Please quote me in place when I stated that Luffy can fight on same ground as Admiral.

Also I stated that Luffy should be around of level of combat power that Doflamingo and Marco shows. Quote me if I am wrong and you can find words in post that back up you writing here things that are not truth.
I simply meant that its visible that in time things will clarify in a way that will make my assumptions about overall Luffys/ Sanjis/ Zoros strength close to "truth".

 

[Ninomiya]

You start to post some stuff that gets on my nerves. I do not like discrediting me by simplyfying and bending my statements.
Please quote me in place when I stated that Luffy can fight on same ground as Admiral.

Also I stated that Luffy should be around of level of combat power that Doflamingo and Marco shows. Quote me if I am wrong and you can find words in post that back up you writing here things that are not truth.
I simply meant that its visible that in time things will clarify in a way that will make my assumptions about overall Luffys/ Sanjis/ Zoros strength close to "truth".

And I have said that to say Luffy is equal to Dofla and Marco is rather baseless. You have to remember that I'm not going to give a damn if I get on your nerves on a forum vagabond87 because that happens on forums worldwide, sure it can be troublesome. Just how it is.

YOU are the one who has placed Luffy on the high level of Doflamingo and Marco. So surely it is YOU who has to prove he is equal to Dofla. As I noted before, both Law and Luffy are going to take Dofla on. For Oda to have 2 Supernova's aim for one guy, it surely means that individually they most likely are not equal to Dofla.
There's evidence.
Also the fact that there is no way to know if Marco and Doflamingo are on the same level too, so that was another baseless statement unless you can back that up.

Secondly, here:

I do not share your way of seeing Luffys current combat power- he should hold his ground against Admiral better than Ace after he gotten free from cuffs as Ace was able to hold off Aokiji for a moment, same as Marco in his clashes with Admirals and Jozu in his fight with Aokiji.
Luffy is not weaker than them. He is around Doflamingo/ Ace strength by all means. You seem to be downgrading strength of Strawhats.

You say he can do it the same as Marco did. Marco was rather close to equal to the Admirals. He was taking hits, AND dishing out hits comfortably with the Admirals.
It seems you don't even know what you're saying vagabond87.
To say Luffy can fight the Admirals the same as Marco is saying they are more or less equal or not far from equal. To say the same as Dofla, is just the same.
And Jozu especially, who Aokiji couldn't really defeat til he was distracted by Marco getting handcuffed by Onigumo iirc.

Like I said, I don't see Luffy dishing out hits that causes Kuzan to bleed like Jozu did, like kicking Kizaru and sending him flying like Marco did.
Remember how comfortably they did that?
They were dishing out hits to each other practically through the fight.
So it is here you say Luffy can fight on basically equal grounds with an Admiral.
I was never "bending" your words.
Its only because of a distraction that Jozu lost his arm which is as expected at the top level where a distraction can cost you a limb.

Like I said before, and you agreed with me earlier in the thread, for Luffy, we will likely go the Enies Lobby route where Luffy faces a Mid-arc boss like Blueno, improves, and THEN goes onto the final boss arc with an improved self to defeat Dofla.

If Luffy is nowhere near the top brass of WB/the other Yonkou, he has no place in the New World, not at all.

That's not fair. Of course there is still a place for him. The New World has been shown as extremely vast especially in this tournament with guys like Bartolomeo etc.
Marco, Vista and Jozu are amongst the best the New World has to offer aside from Yonkou captains.
Then the top 2-3 men of each New World Captain such as Benn Beckmann who even startled Kizaru.

Dunno if we can say Luffy is on Benn Beckmann level.
UNLESS you see Kizaru having that "Ohhh Benn Beckmann" reaction when he sees Luffy haha.

 

[Jorge D. Dragon]

Well, if we are talking about Luffy's current strength, then he is quite strong. No one doubts it.
Still, I can't see him beeing on par with Dofla or any of top WB commanders. Of course he might have a good chance against some of the weakest commanders of WB crew and other Yonkjou's crews, but not against the likes of Marco, Joz or Vista.
And of course he won't hold a candle against any of the Admirals. At least for now.

Maybe after one or two Arcs he will become more significant character in terms of Grand Scheme of things, but not for now.

 

[vagabond87]

And I have said that to say Luffy is equal to Dofla and Marco is rather baseless. You have to remember that I'm not going to give a damn if I get on your nerves on a forum vagabond87 because that happens on forums worldwide, sure it can be troublesome. Just how it is.

YOU are the one who has placed Luffy on the high level of Doflamingo and Marco. So surely it is YOU who has to prove he is equal to Dofla. As I noted before, both Law and Luffy are going to take Dofla on. For Oda to have 2 Supernova's aim for one guy, it surely means that individually they most likely are not equal to Dofla.
There's evidence.

Going by your logic its like you are shooting your own foot- saying that Oda have 2 Supernovas going afer Doflamingo is not truth and stating that thats evidence doesnt make sense going by the logic. They are going against Emperor and as for now they are using plan to get Kaido moving to them. Doflamingo was meant to be taken care of during that plan.

Also the fact that there is no way to know if Marco and Doflamingo are on the same level too, so that was another baseless statement unless you can back that up.

I estimated their strength going with how Marco faired against Admirals and that Doflamingo is very afraid of facing Kaido in battle as its most probably just as Law said- Doflamingo would end up dead. Kaido is by all we can persume slightly above Admiral. Beside Doflamingo didnt risked all out battle with Kuzan when he was desperate to silence Smoker. That points that he might be not as strong as Kuzan and dont want to risk loosing life if there are were some other ways to deal with his problem.

You say he can do it the same as Marco did. Marco was rather close to equal to the Admirals. He was taking hits, AND dishing out hits comfortably with the Admirals.
It seems you don't even know what you're saying vagabond87.

I perfectly know what I stated and I didnt said word by word that Luffy can go toe to toe with Admirals. Second thing is that you are overestimating Marco. He was strong but equal to Admiral? Sadly but no. If he was equal to Admiral he would be able to stop Akainu from chasing Luffy and Jimbei during marineford war, but Marco + most commanders and Marco + Vista were not enough to stop Akainu in his tracks. Marco had fantastic ability to defend/ regenarate but saying that he was equal to Admiral is silly. And for taking hits from Admirals comfortably- Im sure he comfortably landed with his face on the ground when Vice Admiral Garp punched him with something that looked like rather simple attack with strong haki imbued.

To say Luffy can fight the Admirals the same as Marco is saying they are more or less equal or not far from equal. To say the same as Dofla, is just the same.
And Jozu especially, who Aokiji couldn't really defeat til he was distracted by Marco getting handcuffed by Onigumo iirc. Like I said, I don't see Luffy dishing out hits that causes Kuzan to bleed like Jozu did, like kicking Kizaru and sending him flying like Marco did.
Remember how comfortably they did that?

Couldnt? Well this we dont know as fights were short and making Admirals lip bleed and getting ass frozen after that isnt pointing to Jozu being so close to Admiral. Get emotions on some other track coz they are clouding your judgement

They were dishing out hits to each other practically through the fight.
So it is here you say Luffy can fight on basically equal grounds with an Admiral.
I was never "bending" your words.
Its only because of a distraction that Jozu lost his arm which is as expected at the top level where a distraction can cost you a limb.

Like I said before, and you agreed with me earlier in the thread, for Luffy, we will likely go the Enies Lobby route where Luffy faces a Mid-arc boss like Blueno, improves, and THEN goes onto the final boss arc with an improved self to defeat Dofla.

I dont think that he will need to improve or learn any new stuff as that was not the case even during Enies Lobby, I would be expecting two stages of showing us Luffys new abilities, not him learning-improving just like back then minus fact that he has already mastered abilities waiting to be shown off.

That's not fair. Of course there is still a place for him. The New World has been shown as extremely vast especially in this tournament with guys like Bartolomeo etc.
Marco, Vista and Jozu are amongst the best the New World has to offer aside from Yonkou captains.
Then the top 2-3 men of each New World Captain such as Benn Beckmann who even startled Kizaru.
Dunno if we can say Luffy is on Benn Beckmann level.
UNLESS you see Kizaru having that "Ohhh Benn Beckmann" reaction when he sees Luffy haha.

Then why would Rayleigh say to Luffy "Go straight for the top"? He trained with him for over a year and said that Luffy has grown up to be a man worthy of his strawhat.

 

[Ninomiya]

Then why would Rayleigh say to Luffy "Go straight for the top"? He trained with him for over a year and said that Luffy has grown up to be a man worthy of his strawhat.

That has nothing to do with Luffy's current standing. Telling someone to aim for the best doesn't automatically mean they are equal to the best.
That just makes no sense...

 

[vagabond87]

That has nothing to do with Luffy's current standing. Telling someone to aim for the best doesn't automatically mean they are equal to the best.
That just makes no sense...

Who said that he is equal to best? not me
I am stating that I expect Luffy to be as storng as likes of Marco or Doflamingo so not as strong as Admirals but still capable of fighting them and being alive after fight. This would make Luffy matter in New World as top of Supernovas

 

[Ninomiya]

I estimated their strength going with how Marco faired against Admirals and that Doflamingo is very afraid of facing Kaido in battle as its most probably just as Law said- Doflamingo would end up dead. Kaido is by all we can persume slightly above Admiral. Beside Doflamingo didnt risked all out battle with Kuzan when he was desperate to silence Smoker. That points that he might be not as strong as Kuzan and dont want to risk loosing life if there are were some other ways to deal with his problem.

Irrelevant to the point YOU made which we were discussing.
You say Luffy is equal to Marco... That's baseless.
Don't dodge stuff now. Do you see Luffy kicking Kizaru far into a wall? Do you see Luffy punching Aokiji so his lip bleeds?
Yes or no and we can summarize your baseless assumption.

By Doflamingo's fear of Kaidoh and Kuzan it doesn't prove he and Luffy are equal in the slightest. Luffy's ass will get kicked by Kuzan frighteningly quickly but we don't know how Dofla will fair against Kuzan and its that simple.

I perfectly know what I stated and I didnt said word by word that Luffy can go toe to toe with Admirals. Second thing is that you are overestimating Marco. He was strong but equal to Admiral? Sadly but no. If he was equal to Admiral he would be able to stop Akainu from chasing Luffy and Jimbei during marineford war, but Marco + most commanders and Marco + Vista were not enough to stop Akainu in his tracks. Marco had fantastic ability to defend/ regenarate but saying that he was equal to Admiral is silly.

Never said he was exactly equal but fought on more or less equal grounds in Marineford.
They were both dishing out hits to each other.
Yes the Admirals > Vista, Marco & Jozu,
But Marco and Jozu were landing serious hits to the Admirals.
You say Luffy is equal to them, but like I said I don't see Luffy dishing out those kind of hits to an Admiral. At all.
In fact, I'll use your words here. I think its silly.

And for taking hits from Admirals comfortably- Im sure he comfortably landed with his face on the ground when Vice Admiral Garp punched him with something that looked like rather simple attack with strong haki imbued.

Wait wait wait... You're going to compare the effects of a surprise Garp Punch to the effects of whatever Luffy could do to Marco?
You do realize that Garp is one of the strongest characters that ever existed in the series right?
I'll tell you this, without the Seastone cuff, Marco was doing really well against Kizaru, sure he wasn't going to defeat him but he was doing great.
Luffy on the other hand won't do great against Kizaru. Its that simple.

That same Garp punch will very likely wreck Luffy.

Couldnt? Well this we dont know as fights were short and making Admirals lip bleed and getting ass frozen after that isnt pointing to Jozu being so close to Admiral. Get emotions on some other track coz they are clouding your judgement

Thanks for your concern but my emotions are fine.
In a short fight, just answer the question on whether or not you see Luffy kicking Kizaru off into the distance.
I don't know anybody on MH who does but please answer this and we can just summarize your so far, baseless theory.

I dont think that he will need to improve or learn any new stuff as that was not the case even during Enies Lobby, I would be expecting two stages of showing us Luffys new abilities, not him learning-improving just like back then minus fact that he has already mastered abilities waiting to be shown off.

Fair enough. If he shows us some new abilities I'll accept that as the necessary improvement he needs to bridge the gap.
From the abilities that we've seen, he isn't beating Marco at this current moment.

Who said that he is equal to best? not me
I am stating that I expect Luffy to be as storng as likes of Marco or Doflamingo so not as strong as Admirals but still capable of fighting them and being alive after fight. This would make Luffy matter in New World as top of Supernovas

Then you are choosing to interpret that quote however you want to.
Since surely you must understand subordinates like Marco and Jozu do not mean "The top" right?
I expect Rayleight meant the very top like Yonkou. Everybody and their aunt susie knows Luffy will die against a Yonkou btw lol.

 

[vagabond87]

Fair enough. If he shows us some new abilities I'll accept that as the necessary improvement he needs to bridge the gap.
From the abilities that we've seen, he isn't beating Marco at this current moment.

Just to show how far you are from understanding what I wrote Ill just quote this and say that I never said anything about Luffy beating Marco.
I just said that I expect Luffy to be around Marco/Doflamingo combat power. Thats all. As I understan your points you seem to be hellbent on your point of view so no point in discussing for me.

 

[Ninomiya]

Just to show how far you are from understanding what I wrote Ill just quote this and say that I never said anything about Luffy beating Marco.
I just said that I expect Luffy to be around Marco/Doflamingo combat power. Thats all. As I understan your points you seem to be hellbent on your point of view so no point in discussing for me.

Lmao you're making me pity you for not being able to explain yourself well.
You quoting me for no apparent reason seems a bit odd though, I don't see what you're trying to prove.

I have said from what we have seen Luffy isn't beating Marco, or rather, its very unlikely he will beat Marco.
Whereas you say he is Marco level and Doflamingo level, although its very difficult to determine Marco and Dofla are the same level.
I'm not hellbent on anything. Just wanted some real evidence that doflamingo and Marco were equal, and that Luffy was equal to them based on what we have seen of Luffy and those in question.

Its really all down to you needing to explain yourself but you're free to quit.

 

[vagabond87]

Lmao you're making me pity you for not being able to explain yourself well.
You quoting me for no apparent reason seems a bit odd though, I don't see what you're trying to prove.

I have said from what we have seen Luffy isn't beating Marco, or rather, its very unlikely he will beat Marco.
Whereas you say he is Marco level and Doflamingo level, although its very difficult to determine Marco and Dofla are the same level.
I'm not hellbent on anything. Just wanted some real evidence that doflamingo and Marco were equal, and that Luffy was equal to them based on what we have seen of Luffy and those in question.

Its really all down to you needing to explain yourself but you're free to quit.

That I dont care if person has problems with understandig things on his/ her own. Its a waste of time- proving somebody who blindly doesnt agree with you at all anything is pointless thats why I back off. I did same with KnightofNight as it later seemed he was One Piece anime-watcher not Manga reader and he was mixing up some facts/ not remembering some stuff and he was keeping his position even when I kind of explained everything in detail. You are same case when it comes to being stubborn. You are making assumptions just like me without any hard evidence and you keep on going like your point of view makes more sense than mine. It simply doesnt. Maybe I am simply better at interpratations on my own than you are. Pity me all you want- weak people use big words in such simple situations.
If you didnt understood- Im not quoting you for a reson- I dont think that I can put a dent on your "perspective" even showing you pages/ comparing situations and stuff. You are entitled to think whatever you like, Im entiteled to not give a.. damn about what you think when I come into conclusion that you are not person that is open for any other points of view. For example you are thanking in this thread people that agree/ share your point of view and you ignore some good posts with different view described.

To maximally simplify it even though you would still ignore my elaboration on subject same as before:
I believe that Doflamingo isnt as strong as Admiral. I think same about Marco- I explained resons why I think like that and I wont repeat myslef- read my previous posts if you are not simply trolling with some care in reading you might come into conclusion that what I wrote makes sense. Also I do not believe that both of them could have been weaker than Ace as both of them are veterans high in food chain of One Piece world. Third thing I do believe that Luffy thanks to his traning gotten stronger than Ace who was one of Top Whitebeards commanders. Luffy purely trained all time for around two years with one of strongest people shown so far in manga as a teacher, in this time Ace when he was at Luffys age roamed the seas with his crew/ joined Whitebeard pirates and sailed around New World. From my point of view harsh training for 2 years non stop gives better results than what Ace did in same age.

 

[Ninomiya]

You're calling me weak? That's a bit far.
Take your own advice on keeping your emotions on the right track.
And no, I'm not trolling.

You seem to think that you can't be wrong. There is little to no point to coming to MH if you think you can't be wrong.
Heck I might be wrong here, but there hasn't been any evidence given against the points I've made.

I haven't ignored any posts that contrast my thoughts. I responded to David Rose, Schabrak AND yourself in case you haven't been reading this discussion closely since you've all given points that I have valued and responded to.
By mentioning me thanking the posts of others, are attempting to imply its a bad thing that I thank the posts I agree with strongly?
Something that is very common on forums worldwide?

Speaking of ignoring, nobody's answered my questions or points... Especially you who I aimed them at.
To say Luffy is like Marco, do you see Luffy kicking Kizaru far off into a wall?
I can tell I don't see that happening. Not with the abilities he has shown.

You've made your point. It isn't concrete. So far, people have agreed with both your point of view and my point of view just as much.

Your final paragraph is rather empty in relation to our debate btw.
You're stating again Dofla isn't as strong as the Admirals, something we have been over. You're stating that neither is Marco.
But do you know just how many levels there are between the Vice-Admirals and Admirals?
There has to be several for instance, Momonga, Smoker, Stainless, Onigumo, Vergo have all been shown to have different strength levels.

So really, you saying Luffy is equal to Dofla and Marco is still baseless.
So what if they are both stronger than VA's yet weaker than Admirals. It still doesn't prove Dofla and Marco are equal. Let alone Luffy is equal to them.
That has been my point the whole time.

You saying Luffy > Ace is something people on MH have accepted a while ago too, something I have acknowledged in our debate.
Issue is, Marco and Jozu inflicted damage on Admirals. Ace didn't.

Luffy training with Rayleigh is a good point but we have to remember just how weak Luffy was in Part I.
He was getting finger stabbed by Dalmatian casually, so fast that he was unable to react and he even tried to go into Gear2 but wasn't even able to because the opponent was too fast for him.

I don't see why you're getting so worked up here. You're making points and I'm going against them. Its not like what I'm saying is far-fetched at all.

 

[Shojin]

Hey, play nice now children.

Anyways, I'm kinda curious about how strong Marco is now after the 2 year timeskip.

 

[vagabond87]

Your final paragraph is rather empty in relation to our debate btw.
You're stating again Dofla isn't as strong as the Admirals, something we have been over. You're stating that neither is Marco.
But do you know just how many levels there are between the Vice-Admirals and Admirals?
There has to be several for instance, Momonga, Smoker, Stainless, Onigumo, Vergo have all been shown to have different strength levels.

Oda shown Law as superior to Vergo, made rather hurt Sanji fight with Vergo and still be able to not get overwhelmed and shown us plenty of stuff during Punk Hazard arc to scratch our heads while thinking who is stronger than who. Vergo was(or is) pointed to being one of Doflamingos strongest nakamas and someone that was G5 base commander. I do think that Luffy would me more than capable of beating Vergo who FOR ME was comparable to at least lower level Whitebeard commanders.

So really, you saying Luffy is equal to Dofla and Marco is still baseless.
So what if they are both stronger than VA's yet weaker than Admirals. It still doesn't prove Dofla and Marco are equal. Let alone Luffy is equal to them.
That has been my point the whole time.

If you mean that perfectly equal then I didnt even thought about it in that way, my mistake if it looked like that. As I admit that there is dozen of "levels" between VA and Admiral as you pointed. Yet I am putting them really really close to each other. Luffy- Doflamingo- Marco. I expect them to be close to each other in power now.

You saying Luffy > Ace is something people on MH have accepted a while ago too, something I have acknowledged in our debate.
Issue is, Marco and Jozu inflicted damage on Admirals. Ace didn't.

Ace was after really long time of torture/ his life force was said to be getting weaker and weaker in time- it was visible thanks to his vivre card, he had "draw" in clash of attacks with Aokiji and he was simply burned when he and Akainu clashed because Akainus fruit was said to be superior to Aces and Ace haki was weaker than Akainus DF ability/Haki. Ace sacrificed life to shield Luffy from Akainus attack. Thats all. Healthy Ace from time of fighting Blackbeard was by all means far stronger than Ace that fought equally with Jimbei before joining Whitebeard. Oda said in one of SBS that all of Whitebeards commanders variate in strength but not really big amount- they are close to each other, yet Marco, Jozu and Vista seemed bo be best out of them during war.

Luffy training with Rayleigh is a good point but we have to remember just how weak Luffy was in Part I.
He was getting finger stabbed by Dalmatian casually, so fast that he was unable to react and he even tried to go into Gear2 but wasn't even able to because the opponent was too fast for him.

Dalmatian and Momonga "fought" Luffy after he was beaten up close to collapsing. He was after recovering from Magellans poison and after hella lot of other troubles so to say. Healthy Luffy would still not have much chances against them but fight would surely be longer. To compare Luffy to marines at time of Whitebeard war it would be nice imo to use X Drake who was Rear Admiral at that time. So I gotten impression that Luffy/Kidd/Law/Drake were really close to each other in strength department. Luffy wasnt complete zero but promising individual who was able to beat Rob Lucci and few others proven strong individuals.

I don't see why you're getting so worked up here. You're making points and I'm going against them. Its not like what I'm saying is far-fetched at all.

I can be alergic to some ways of discussing.

Calling you weak was only response to feeling pity for me as it is rather big word to use when we talk here, kind of things that pulls discussion on more personal ground.

Hey, play nice now children.

Anyways, I'm kinda curious about how strong Marco is now after the 2 year timeskip.

Ok papa
Marco is most probably at his peak, so I expect same as he was during Whitebeard war. If he would get any stronger that would mean that he is around or over admirals so its a no go for me. He isnt young, so he should not grow in power. People in One Piece are at their absolute prime around Marco age or younger.
It would be most logical to expect Marco joining Shanks crew along with some other ex-whitebeard pirates.

 

[kkck]

I don't think marco is so old that he couldn't get stronger over the timeskip. Even BB should have gotten well stronger and he is probably even older than marco (at least appearance wise). Smoker himself is almost 40 and even then over the last 2 years he went from having virtually negligible strength to being a proper VA (although he should be among the less relevant ones in terms of strength IMO). People do get old and as a result weaker however I don't think that happens as early as it would happen for real life humans. Garp and sengoku were still monsters two years ago and they were over 70.... I am of the idea that age starts taking its tool on people somewhere over the 50 year old mark at least. Before that growing stronger and maintaining a peak should be well possible.

 

[Fox666]

Teach was 38 before the time-skip, while Marco was already the 1st division captain 22 years ago, so he is probably older than Teach.

 

[kkck]

If Luffy is nowhere near the top brass of WB/the other Yonkou, he has no place in the New World, not at all. Not saying as strong as Sakazuki, probably around Doflamingo if in total rage, but I don't think he is really equal to Mingo right now, not yet.

I guess it is a matter of context. Just looking at the tournament now it would seem pretty obvious the level luffy had 2 years ago was meaningless. 2 years ago luffy did not even meet the level of your average new world fighter or at least it would appear so. Right now luffy is well above the average and capable of holding his ground against strong warriors. Still, looking at the tournament it does seem like the new world is essentially plagued by people who could give current luffy trouble.

I guess the issue comes down to the fact that being a yonko is not merely about being individually powerful. That is perhaps a necessary step but given what we have seen would it be so weird that there were people moving independently who could actually match the strongest ones around? The whole thing reminds me of something mihawk said during the war.
http://www.mangapanda.com/103-36562-12/one-piece/chapter-561.html

Overall becoming important in the world in general is not quite about being individually strong. As important as that is most difficult thing would be to get people to follow you. You can be as impossibly strong as you want but the new world being what it is would make that irrelevant if ultimately you do not get people to follow you. People with such insane levels of strength as we have seen in the new world just now would obviously make overall poor subordinates. They are powerful, highly individualistic and perhaps outright selfish. As a lone individual you would end up either fighting someone who can match you or worst, fighting someone who has managed to get dangerously strong people to follow you.

Overall this means that the strength of the yonko does not lie in their actual individual strength. It lies in the sheer amount of subordinates they control. Overall the world is the sort of place where having a single extra ally can be the difference between an overwhelming victory and spectacular defeat. A single person in OP can potentially destroy a nation and its army rather easily. The yonko are powerful because they have managed to take under their control a specific set of warriors who can actually have such an impact in a war. WB had his commanders and allies, the marines have the admirals, the VAs and perhaps the rear admirals as relevant fighters and so on. So the yonko have probably around 10 fighters whose name is worth a damn and through the influence that controlling that small group of people gives you they are able to bend nations to their will and draw other people to follow them. Ultimately its well more about being individually strong, its about getting a handful of unstable lunatics to follow you.

So perhaps even now it can't really be said luffy is dangerous because of his strength alone. As strong as he is it does seem like there are A LOT of people in the new world who can actually give him a run for his money and perhaps not only him but even admirals themselves. Luffy is dangerous because he makes friends wherever he goes. Its one thing to do that in paradise where islands don't have people with actual strength and cannon fodder like rob lucci had strength worth fearing, its an entirely different matter to do it in an ocean where by merely standing out a bit you can run into people capable of destroying a nation. The allies luffy is going to get as he moves on in the new world are not overall weak like the allies he has made on his way to the new world, they will likely be people capable of destroying nations easily. Heck, even now luffy basically started with jinbe, law, and kinemon which is something the world government should be damned scared of.

To put things in perspective, if luffy by some miracle gets the people at the Colosseum to follow him he would likely have more than enough manpower to overthrow any yonko and perhaps even the world government. I am not saying such a thing will happen however I do think that is the actual amount of military power actually gathered in the Colosseum right now.

 

[vagabond87]

To put things in perspective, if luffy by some miracle gets the people at the Colosseum to follow him he would likely have more than enough manpower to overthrow any yonko and perhaps even the world government. I am not saying such a thing will happen however I do think that is the actual amount of military power actually gathered in the Colosseum right now.

As most of your post is interesting in this part you are wrong. If there would be so much manpower there then why Fujitora did called for backup only 3 warships and not another Admiral with some fleet comparable to Buster Call? He most probably knew about Law and Luffy. He knew about Burgess as well.
Beside World Goverment is not only Marines but also military. If Dragon was not able to overthrow WG in all those years then Luffy wont be able to do it even if almost ALL people from Colosseum would become his allies. As for one weakened Yonko it might be enough to give a challenge(still not without Laws plan being at least partially success and cutting off from fighting some of Kaidos underlings, so Emperor comes to them instead of storming through big area of his territory).

 

[kkck]

As most of your post is interesting in this part you are wrong. If there would be so much manpower there then why Fujitora did called for backup only 3 warships and not another Admiral with some fleet comparable to Buster Call? He most probably knew about Law and Luffy. He knew about Burgess as well.
Beside World Goverment is not only Marines but also military. If Dragon was not able to overthrow WG in all those years then Luffy wont be able to do it even if almost ALL people from Colosseum would become his allies. As for one weakened Yonko it might be enough to give a challenge(still not without Laws plan being at least partially success and cutting off from fighting some of Kaidos underlings, so Emperor comes to them instead of storming through big area of his territory).

For the simple fact that it is extremely unlikely that someone will ever get everyone there to follow him. Fujitora does not need to deal with everyone there, he needs to deal with a very specific set of people for his mission whatever it might be. Almost everyone at the colosseum has some measure of power and almost everyone basically has their own objectives and goals, that is why getting them to fight alongside someone would be extremely difficult to begin with. Even the revolutionaries are probably just a slightly larger group that managed to get his hands on a handful of strong people (the manga has made references to the revolutionary commanders) considering that they are capable of waging war on many fronts so far.

 

[David Rose]

I'm trying to put some numbers on the current topic about Luffy's power, given the statement from Oda, which i qouted some time ago. (Regarding Shanks KOing all the 100.000 soldiers on FI)

I think it's a fair point to assume that he was hinting us to the point that Luffy is at about 50% the strength of Shanks. I also think it's a fair point to assume that all Yonkous are roughly at the same level (dunno about BB though, more regarding the old WB, Shanks, Mum and Kaido). From here on I will add my own conclusions.

1. a Yonkou is stronger than a single Admiral, given they fight 1on1 and are unhurt in the beginning.
2. the old 3 Admirals are most likely the second most powerful individuals (except Dragon, Fujitora and Mihawk, since we know nothing about their actual power, but each has a title stating vast amounts of power).
3. after that we have practically everybody else, mostly based on assumption. We some outstanding individuals, like DD, though.

So we have WB at 100%,
Probably an Admiral at 75%-85%
DD at probably 66%
WB commanders + Ace unhurt and rested at 50%-60%
Luffy at roughly 50%+

My reasoning:
We have seen that DD was able to toy with Jozu on a certain level. That's not much since Jozu wasn't very serious either, or at least not in actual danger. But we can assume, that DD has s slight edge on them. He does loose to an admiral though, including the old three, since he didn't want to fight Kuzan, knowing his chances weren't good.
The rather low ranking of Luffy is quite intriguing, given some speccs of his fighting ability:
He has one of the single most powerfull abilities for 1on1 fighting, since he can multiply his physical power with 4 factors: Haki, his actual body strength, normal DF abilities, Gear 2 and three. (I count his gears individually since they differ from the mindset of DF abilities. It's not a specific attack, or anything that was "intended by the sole concept, but more of Luffys will to abuse his power for further benefit.) So with there are only 3 known individuals who have achieved that: Luffy (as explained), BB (he has 2 DF, that is a +1 [2DF+power+Haki]) and Marco (general power + Haki + DF benefits + extra DF benefits [regeneration]).
It is safe to assume there will be more. For example, a weapon-based fighter like Zorro still has 3 (power + Haki + Sword).
For me it's all about the relative concept of fighting. When two logias clash they just mash their abilities together and at some point someone will have the bigger balls, you name it, and wins.
That doesn't work with Luffy since he's all about putting the pure physical hurt on someone. In an evironment where his enemy is not fleeing, or using tricks, or controling the whole area, but is rather fighting him head on, his actual strength will raise by 10 to 20%. As already proven by Oda countless times (Moria, Monet come to mind. He's alot stronger, but it's all about the situation).
Given all that i assume Luffy will be stronger than Ace and the regular WB Commander, when Oda decides it's time and at some point he will most likely fight and beat DD, constantly growing stronger thoughout and raising his potential, since he get's stronger after every won fight (or even every fight). Even it it might not be the simple number-given fact at the time.

Also Luffy will kinda show his growth by defeating Chinjao which would arguably be as powerful Ace in some way. In the end, Oda gave us quite some numbers to play with and we'll see who interprets them well enough. :P

Well, Luffy has the ability to gain allies everywhere he goes, but the manga is all about him becoming pirate king, which is more equivalent to becoming the strongest of all. To be the man with the most freedom you have to be the single strongest man so noone is able to talk down to you. It's more One Piece-logic as a good statement for a phylosiphical debate, but Luffy already stated he will become the strongest to protect his nakama. And that is a whole different concept compared to gaining a huge military force.