Fantasy Dream Fight

Mirage

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Jellal vs Laxus has probably consistently been the most heated and passionate debate I've ever seen throughout most forums I've been on.
 

AmitDS

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Mira vs Erza- Still see them as rivals with Erza getting POF and illogical moments while Mira is sidelined so I would like a fair all out fight.

Laxus vs Jellal - Don't think I need to say why.

Lucy vs Juvia- I think Lucy is beyond her now and would win in a fight but I would like to see it confirmed in terms of who'd beat whom in a fight.

Lucy vs Wendy- People think Wendy's enchantments and mini Erza moments push her on another level in power and in fights so...

Gray vs Mirajane- Manga has indicated that Gray is weaker than BSS and would lose but because it's off panel and people don't like statements it's somehow up for debate here so I'd like to see Mira handle him in BSS or even in Sitri and see to what extent his DeS actually affects her.

Chelia vs Juvia- I think we were robbed of them actually fighting in the GMG and given that Gray = Lyon back then I think they would have to be close to to have made that win one Gray had to work for (I don't see Gray vs Lyon including someone weaker than Gray's partner helping Lyon and Chelia was beyond Wendy back then so she should be on Juvia's level)
 

Cosmicstar

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Lucy vs Mirajane: Legit and logical battle between both sides. Logically Stardress Mix would cost less magical power than Summoning the spirits as it only uses a portion of the spirits power confirmed twice. Beyond that it also raises her magical power. So there is no reason she shouldn't be able to use it for extended periods of time. The whole "I can only use it for a sec" was a lame excuse without any logical explanation.

Gray vs Mirajane: I want an onscreen logical battle between the two. No way a tired BSS Mirajane gave Gray a hard battle when Gray was standing up to the strongest Demon E.N.D on equal footing.
 

AmitDS

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Lucy vs Mirajane: Legit and logical battle between both sides. Logically Stardress Mix would cost less magical power than Summoning the spirits as it only uses a portion of the spirits power confirmed twice. Beyond that it also raises her magical power. So there is no reason she shouldn't be able to use it for extended periods of time. The whole "I can only use it for a sec" was a lame excuse without any logical explanation.

Gray vs Mirajane: I want an onscreen logical battle between the two. No way a tired BSS Mirajane gave Gray a hard battle when Gray was standing up to the strongest Demon E.N.D on equal footing.
Lucy would still lose as indicated by Lucy herself and from what we all know i.e. Mira is beyond Lucy, Wendy, Juvia, Cana.

Mirajane actually did give Gray an extreme diff fight in her BSS form when she was heavily injured as per the actual manga, after she stood up to Skullion who Gray couldn't beat. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. On panel it would be the same situation presently so we'd just see how Mirajane whoops him this time or how he barely beats her if she's heavily injured. It's not magically going to change if we see Gray go up against BSS Mirajane. Off panel doesn't negate feats, hype or facts. That Gray who stood up to E.N.D. ALSO was stopped by Erza who was heavily injured, using no armors or magic with one hand because this is FT. Give Gray POF if Juvia died and maybe then he'd be like he was vs END and handle BSS Mirajane. Generally he won't.
 
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Cosmicstar

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Lucy would still lose as indicated by Lucy herself and from what we all know i.e. Mira is beyond Lucy, Wendy, Juvia, Cana.

Mirajane actually did give Gray an extreme diff fight in her BSS form when she was heavily injured as per the actual manga, after she stood up to Skullion who Gray couldn't beat. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. On panel it would be the same situation presently so we'd just see how Mirajane whoops him this time or how he barely beats her if she's heavily injured. It's not magically going to change if we see Gray go up against BSS Mirajane. Off panel doesn't negate feats, hype or facts. That Gray who stood up to E.N.D. ALSO was stopped by Erza who was heavily injured, using no armors or magic with one hand because this is FT. Give Gray POF if Juvia died and maybe then he'd be like he was vs END and handle BSS Mirajane. Generally he won't.
Both fights took place majority off panel with Mirajane vs Gray taking place completely off panel. Cut the BS, E.N.D was already confirmed to be superior than any other demon and shown powerful enough to whoop Dimaria behind and well beyond Brandish power. Also the Etherios were already stated stronger than Mirajane forms and Gray one shot Temepesta. There is no logical way Mirajane would have given Gray a high difficulty battle without breaking consistency which is why Hiro Mashima off paneled the fight. Also Erza is a power house far beyond Mirajane in power. Mirajane needed her strongest form to take out two fodder swords while Erza extremely weakened destroyed one of Irene's most powerful spells. So Erza stopping them doesn't indicate anything regarding Mirajane.

I want an onscreen battle with logic and consistency. I clearly wrote that in my original post but you just magically glanced over that. You Mirajane stans be killing me. Also since the battle was off screened you can't claim all she used was BSS because it was Off screened.

Also you act like Lucy was only facing Mirajane when she was facing all 3 siblings and we only ever saw her used one attack against Mirajane.
 

AmitDS

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Both fights took place majority off panel with Mirajane vs Gray taking place completely off panel. Cut the BS, E.N.D was already confirmed to be superior than any other demon and shown powerful enough to whoop Dimaria behind and well beyond Brandish power. Also the Etherios were already stated stronger than Mirajane forms and Gray one shot Temepesta. There is no logical way Mirajane would have given Gray a high difficulty battle without breaking consistency which is why Hiro Mashima off paneled the fight. Also Erza is a power house far beyond Mirajane in power. Mirajane needed her strongest form to take out two fodder swords while Erza extremely weakened destroyed one of Irene's most powerful spells. So Erza stopping them doesn't indicate anything regarding Mirajane.

I want an onscreen battle with logic and consistency. I clearly wrote that in my original post but you just magically glanced over that. You Mirajane stans be killing me. Also since the battle was off screened you can't claim all she used was BSS because it was Off screened.

Also you act like Lucy was only facing Mirajane when she was facing all 3 siblings and we only ever saw her used one attack against Mirajane.
No you cut the BS. Gray beat Tartaros demons 2 arcs ago. Mirajane and all the characters powered up since then so holding Mirajane to the same standard as Tempesta in Tartaros is illogical. Even Mard Geer didn't get one shot by Gray.

My point stands. Erza was injured and didn't use any magic or armor to block Gray and partially demonized Natsu's attacks with one hand each. So you using Gray vs natsu from over a year ago to justify why Gray should be able to beat Mira is hilarious. END is the strongest Demon and DeS Gray is equal to him but Erza stopped them with one hand, no magical armor/power while heavily injured? That's logical?

And the fact that BSS Mirajane was able to stand up to Azuma, overwhelm Freed, parallel heaven's wheel/Black wing Erza against Tartartos soldiers,, match base Seilah and now tie with Skullion who beat DeS Gray actually indicates that those 'fodder' swords which overwhelmed BSS were not actually fodder. The only way that would work is if BSS was strong before and strong after Alvarez but insanely weak during because you all think Heine and Julliet were fodder because they weren't spriggan level.

It's ironic that you hype partial END and demonized Gray as power houses but then think Erza effortlessly stopping them with one hand and no magic or armor makes total sense and blocks out Mirajane over a year later from being able to beat Gray. Power of feelings was rampant in that instance for all parties so acting like that was the norm, rather than an outlier, is unwise.

Slayers don't always one shot or beat characters they have an advantage over and we've seen this time and again. Just because Gray was hopped up on power of love and friendship because he thought Juvia died and was able to match a partially demonized END, doesn't mean that at present he can easily overwhelm Mirajane who is stronger than him. Let her kill Juvia then he'd beat her.

Also just because END's demonic power messed with Dimaria and Brandish's abilities doesn't mean that Gray would do the same and this would impact Gray vs Mirajane. Gray couldn't do anything to Ajeel, struggled and needed POF to beat Invel but then drew with END before losing easily to Skullion and struggling against weakened Mirajane. All this shows is that your END example is another example of POF and lack of logic however you are subverting it to portray Gray's alvarez feats as the norm, Erza's as well. You are isolating Mirajane as well and stating that this is so illogical and terrible and that's dishonest. If you can accept Erza vs Irene, Gray vs END, Gray vs Skullion and Erza vs Kyoka then you shouldn't have an issue with Gray vs Mirajane. And I suspect you really are just mad that Mira beating Gray makes Lucy beating her even less likely than you wished or claim i.e. Lucy can do it one vs one.

You all act like Gray vs Mira was illogical and all of FT otherwise made perfect sense when most of your examples lack this oh so coveted logic you search for in Mashima's writing.

And I actually did see you said on screen hence me saying, "On panel it would be the same situation presently so we'd just see how Mirajane whoops him this time... " But I guess you missed that. And again, my point stands. It happened off panel so on panel the same result would occur, the only difference is that you'd see how Gray struggled this time. It's not like seeing it on panel makes it different. Just admit that you want it to actually change for Gray to low diff her, that would be honest.

How can a Lucy fan actually think that Lucy wastes a ton of magic keeping Leo and Virgo on the field? You act like she was handicapped because she summoned and would have otherwise been able to one shot Mira with her star dress mix. And if we really want to get into it Mirajane wasn't even in her stronger forms either and played with Leo and Virgo. You think Lucy can spam her lion maiden attack without summoning and beat Mirajane? Because that's what you're implying i.e. That the ONLY reason Lucy didn't beat Mira is because Mirajane's siblings were there which is hilarious.

Also I can say Mira was in BSS since she hadn't used a stronger form vs Lucy or Skullion and by the time she fought Gray she was heavily injured, tired and had already expended magic on two previous fights, one against someone who easily beat Gray. Unlike Gray, who was stated to have tried his best, nothing was stated about Mirajane or even hinted. Furthermore since BSS Mirajane = Skullion > Gray, it wouldn't matter anyway since logically that would indicate that a heavily injured BSS could also give him a high diff fight. Gray was getting whooped by any form of Mirajane who was not injured.

Yeah accepting the canon manga makes me a Mira stan. I guess Gray and Lucy are Mira stans too because neither thought they could beat her at full power either. 😂

I shouldn't be surprised though, you've been having this issue since Lucy was up to fight Mira and she didn't win like you wanted since you, and many others, actually thought that the FT power level ranking had dramatically changed, when it didn't.

You can want whatever dream fight but claiming and implying that Lucy can actually beat Mirajane one on one or that Mirajane wouldn't beat Gray though it was proven in the manga where other slayers have had issues with enemies they have the advantage of, is disingenuous and that's a whole other issue.

Bottom line, this arc proved what people already knew i.e. Mirajane > Gray > Lucy without POF. Erza couldn't beat Laxus and Gray couldn't beat Mira without her being badly wounded so yeah those instances from Alvarez don't really prove anything other that it was POF and it doesn't always help especially against FT members.
 
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IamtherealMirajane

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No you cut the BS. Gray beat Tartaros demons 2 arcs ago. Mirajane and all the characters powered up since then so holding Mirajane to the same standard as Tempesta in Tartaros is illogical. Even Mard Geer didn't get one shot by Gray.

My point stands. Erza was injured and didn't use any magic or armor to block Gray and partially demonized Natsu's attacks with one hand each. So you using Gray vs natsu from over a year ago to justify why Gray should be able to beat Mira is hilarious. END is the strongest Demon and DeS Gray is equal to him but Erza stopped them with one hand, no magical armor/power while heavily injured? That's logical?

And the fact that BSS Mirajane was able to stand up to Azuma, overwhelm Freed, parallel heaven's wheel/Black wing Erza against Tartartos soldiers,, match base Seilah and now tie with Skullion who beat DeS Gray actually indicates that those 'fodder' swords which overwhelmed BSS were not actually fodder. The only way that would work is if BSS was strong before and strong after Alvarez but insanely weak during because you all think Heine and Julliet were fodder because they weren't spriggan level.

It's ironic that you hype partial END and demonized Gray as power houses but then think Erza effortlessly stopping them with one hand and no magic or armor makes total sense and blocks out Mirajane over a year later from being able to beat Gray. Power of feelings was rampant in that instance for all parties so acting like that was the norm, rather than an outlier, is unwise.

Slayers don't always one shot or beat characters they have an advantage over and we've seen this time and again. Just because Gray was hopped up on power of love and friendship because he thought Juvia died and was able to match a partially demonized END, doesn't mean that at present he can easily overwhelm Mirajane who is stronger than him. Let her kill Juvia then he'd beat her.

Also just because END's demonic power messed with Dimaria and Brandish's abilities doesn't mean that Gray would do the same and this would impact Gray vs Mirajane. Gray couldn't do anything to Ajeel, struggled and needed POF to beat Invel but then drew with END before losing easily to Skullion and struggling against weakened Mirajane. All this shows is that your END example is another example of POF and lack of logic however you are subverting it to portray Gray's alvarez feats as the norm, Erza's as well. You are isolating Mirajane as well and stating that this is so illogical and terrible and that's dishonest. If you can accept Erza vs Irene, Gray vs END, Gray vs Skullion and Erza vs Kyoka then you shouldn't have an issue with Gray vs Mirajane. And I suspect you really are just mad that Mira beating Gray makes Lucy beating her even less likely than you wished or claim i.e. Lucy can do it one vs one.

You all act like Gray vs Mira was illogical and all of FT otherwise made perfect sense when most of your examples lack this oh so coveted logic you search for in Mashima's writing.

And I actually did see you said on screen hence me saying, "On panel it would be the same situation presently so we'd just see how Mirajane whoops him this time... " But I guess you missed that. And again, my point stands. It happened off panel so on panel the same result would occur, the only difference is that you'd see how Gray struggled this time. It's not like seeing it on panel makes it different. Just admit that you want it to actually change for Gray to low diff her, that would be honest.

How can a Lucy fan actually think that Lucy wastes a ton of magic keeping Leo and Virgo on the field? You act like she was handicapped because she summoned and would have otherwise been able to one shot Mira with her star dress mix. And if we really want to get into it Mirajane wasn't even in her stronger forms either and played with Leo and Virgo. You think Lucy can spam her lion maiden attack without summoning and beat Mirajane? Because that's what you're implying i.e. That the ONLY reason Lucy didn't beat Mira is because Mirajane's siblings were there which is hilarious.

Also I can say Mira was in BSS since she hadn't used a stronger form vs Lucy or Skullion and by the time she fought Gray she was heavily injured, tired and had already expended magic on two previous fights, one against someone who easily beat Gray. Unlike Gray, who was stated to have tried his best, nothing was stated about Mirajane or even hinted. Furthermore since BSS Mirajane = Skullion > Gray, it wouldn't matter anyway since logically that would indicate that a heavily injured BSS could also give him a high diff fight. Gray was getting whooped by any form of Mirajane who was not injured.

Yeah accepting the canon manga makes me a Mira stan. I guess Gray and Lucy are Mira stans too because neither thought they could beat her at full power either. 😂

I shouldn't be surprised though, you've been having this issue since Lucy was up to fight Mira and she didn't win like you wanted since you, and many others, actually thought that the FT power level ranking had dramatically changed, when it didn't.

You can want whatever dream fight but claiming and implying that Lucy can actually beat Mirajane one on one or that Mirajane wouldn't beat Gray though it was proven in the manga where other slayers have had issues with enemies they have the advantage of, is disingenuous and that's a whole other issue.

Bottom line, this arc proved what people already knew i.e. Mirajane > Gray > Lucy without POF. Erza couldn't beat Laxus and Gray couldn't beat Mira without her being badly wounded so yeah those instances from Alvarez don't really prove anything other that it was POF and it doesn't always help especially against FT members.
The reason why J & H are being called a fodder is because they dont have any cool magic lol. When in fact they are lieutenants of the most powerful female spriggan. And they've already beat base satan soul.

Anyway the only reason why Mira brings Alegria in the table is they are mocking her trump card. As if Alegria mid diffed or high diffed the two when in fact she just grabbed their head.
 

Cosmicstar

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No you cut the BS. Gray beat Tartaros demons 2 arcs ago. Mirajane and all the characters powered up since then so holding Mirajane to the same standard as Tempesta in Tartaros is illogical. Even Mard Geer didn't get one shot by Gray.

My point stands. Erza was injured and didn't use any magic or armor to block Gray and partially demonized Natsu's attacks with one hand each. So you using Gray vs natsu from over a year ago to justify why Gray should be able to beat Mira is hilarious. END is the strongest Demon and DeS Gray is equal to him but Erza stopped them with one hand, no magical armor/power while heavily injured? That's logical?

And the fact that BSS Mirajane was able to stand up to Azuma, overwhelm Freed, parallel heaven's wheel/Black wing Erza against Tartartos soldiers,, match base Seilah and now tie with Skullion who beat DeS Gray actually indicates that those 'fodder' swords which overwhelmed BSS were not actually fodder. The only way that would work is if BSS was strong before and strong after Alvarez but insanely weak during because you all think Heine and Julliet were fodder because they weren't spriggan level.

It's ironic that you hype partial END and demonized Gray as power houses but then think Erza effortlessly stopping them with one hand and no magic or armor makes total sense and blocks out Mirajane over a year later from being able to beat Gray. Power of feelings was rampant in that instance for all parties so acting like that was the norm, rather than an outlier, is unwise.

Slayers don't always one shot or beat characters they have an advantage over and we've seen this time and again. Just because Gray was hopped up on power of love and friendship because he thought Juvia died and was able to match a partially demonized END, doesn't mean that at present he can easily overwhelm Mirajane who is stronger than him. Let her kill Juvia then he'd beat her.

Also just because END's demonic power messed with Dimaria and Brandish's abilities doesn't mean that Gray would do the same and this would impact Gray vs Mirajane. Gray couldn't do anything to Ajeel, struggled and needed POF to beat Invel but then drew with END before losing easily to Skullion and struggling against weakened Mirajane. All this shows is that your END example is another example of POF and lack of logic however you are subverting it to portray Gray's alvarez feats as the norm, Erza's as well. You are isolating Mirajane as well and stating that this is so illogical and terrible and that's dishonest. If you can accept Erza vs Irene, Gray vs END, Gray vs Skullion and Erza vs Kyoka then you shouldn't have an issue with Gray vs Mirajane. And I suspect you really are just mad that Mira beating Gray makes Lucy beating her even less likely than you wished or claim i.e. Lucy can do it one vs one.

You all act like Gray vs Mira was illogical and all of FT otherwise made perfect sense when most of your examples lack this oh so coveted logic you search for in Mashima's writing.

And I actually did see you said on screen hence me saying, "On panel it would be the same situation presently so we'd just see how Mirajane whoops him this time... " But I guess you missed that. And again, my point stands. It happened off panel so on panel the same result would occur, the only difference is that you'd see how Gray struggled this time. It's not like seeing it on panel makes it different. Just admit that you want it to actually change for Gray to low diff her, that would be honest.

How can a Lucy fan actually think that Lucy wastes a ton of magic keeping Leo and Virgo on the field? You act like she was handicapped because she summoned and would have otherwise been able to one shot Mira with her star dress mix. And if we really want to get into it Mirajane wasn't even in her stronger forms either and played with Leo and Virgo. You think Lucy can spam her lion maiden attack without summoning and beat Mirajane? Because that's what you're implying i.e. That the ONLY reason Lucy didn't beat Mira is because Mirajane's siblings were there which is hilarious.

Also I can say Mira was in BSS since she hadn't used a stronger form vs Lucy or Skullion and by the time she fought Gray she was heavily injured, tired and had already expended magic on two previous fights, one against someone who easily beat Gray. Unlike Gray, who was stated to have tried his best, nothing was stated about Mirajane or even hinted. Furthermore since BSS Mirajane = Skullion > Gray, it wouldn't matter anyway since logically that would indicate that a heavily injured BSS could also give him a high diff fight. Gray was getting whooped by any form of Mirajane who was not injured.

Yeah accepting the canon manga makes me a Mira stan. I guess Gray and Lucy are Mira stans too because neither thought they could beat her at full power either. 😂

I shouldn't be surprised though, you've been having this issue since Lucy was up to fight Mira and she didn't win like you wanted since you, and many others, actually thought that the FT power level ranking had dramatically changed, when it didn't.

You can want whatever dream fight but claiming and implying that Lucy can actually beat Mirajane one on one or that Mirajane wouldn't beat Gray though it was proven in the manga where other slayers have had issues with enemies they have the advantage of, is disingenuous and that's a whole other issue.

Bottom line, this arc proved what people already knew i.e. Mirajane > Gray > Lucy without POF. Erza couldn't beat Laxus and Gray couldn't beat Mira without her being badly wounded so yeah those instances from Alvarez don't really prove anything other that it was POF and it doesn't always help especially against FT members.
To Start off Gray beat Mirajane and Elfman which simply proves Gray>Mirajane/Elfman. I don't understand how you got the opposite. They only thing with know for a fact about this fight is that Gray beat Mirajane and Elfman nothing else.

This is what we know:

Mirajane cannot be scaled above the Tartarous Demons she took over because she has not shown to be stronger than them if anything she has actually proven the opposite. While in Sayla form some foot soldiers ignored her command and she could only use Algeria(Plutogrim) for a sec before draining majority of her magic. These two things are canon. So logically you can only scale Mirajane up to the power of the Tartarous demons in thier respective arc because that is the power she shown.


Before bring up she defeated Jacob understand the fight was a gag, off paneled and Jacob was considerably weakened and she still struggled. It was canonically stated and shown that indecent women is a considerable weakness towards him and he didn't use transport against her which is the only real threat ability he has.

Also don't give me the Skulion BS because on screen Skullion was completely dominating Mirajane while she was in BSS. It was shown and stated her physical and Nukes had zero effect on him. Then somehow magically off screen she can compete with him in the same form that was being completely dominated on Screen. You can't seriously tell me this isn't BS.

As far as Gray is concerned we canonically know he stood up equally against E.N.D which was shown and stated to be the strongest Demon. The same E.N.D that was above Dimaria and Brandish power. Given that he was above Brandish power with E.N.D power he would also be above his FDKM(That Brandish power still could effect) that one shotted an enchanted Nienheart and Jacob. It makes no logical sense that BSS could stand up against DeS Gray given that Mirajane needed Algeria to stand up against some enchanted swords in which case Gray stood equal to someone who was far superior to an enchanted Spriggan. The only way Hiro could conceive Mirajane giving Gray trouble was by off paneling it.

Going to Lucy the issue here is that there was no reason given why she can only go into Stardress Mix for a sec. We know for a fact it isn't as powerful as Leo and Virgo as she states it doesn't have the same power as them and it was stated to only use a portion of their power. Beyond that Stardress was also said to boost Lucy's magical power. So by all means logically it would cost way less magical power to use Stardress mix then to summon the spirits themselves.

Also why she doesn't use Gemini power to transform into Mirajane. Also don't give me the BS that Mirajane has more MP than Lucy when Lucy could summoning the CSK for longer an arc prior than Mirajane could use Algeria which is much weaker than the CSK. Both of them dried up a huge portion of water with unleashing their magic the only difference is Lucy did it during the Tartarous arc while Mirajane did it an arc later in Alveraz. Based off this there is no logically reason you claim Mirajane having more MP than Lucy.

Also the fact that Lissana being knocked out by Lion Maiden while she was in her strongest form but Elfman and Mirajane only receiving minor damage. This is inconsistent with Previous feats. Sayla nuke knocked out Mirajane in her Sitri form while the same nuke didn't knock Lissana in her cat form. Ajeel power heavily damaged Lissana and Elfman but didn't knock them out. With this said either Lissana shouldn't have been knocked out by Lion Maiden or Lion Maiden should have did way more damage to Elfman and Mirajane from a consistent point of view.

My point is that I want an Onscreen battle with neither side being nerfed and we see a logical and consistent battle.

As far as Juliet and Hyien is concerned, the reason they are called fodder is because they didn't actually take out any strong opponent or any opponent for real nor did they show any relevant attack power. The only reason people claim them to be strong is because Irene created them.
 

IamtherealMirajane

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To Start off Gray beat Mirajane and Elfman which simply proves Gray>Mirajane/Elfman. I don't understand how you got the opposite. They only thing with know for a fact about this fight is that Gray beat Mirajane and Elfman nothing else.

This is what we know:

Mirajane cannot be scaled above the Tartarous Demons she took over because she has not shown to be stronger than them if anything she has actually proven the opposite. While in Sayla form some foot soldiers ignored her command and she could only use Algeria(Plutogrim) for a sec before draining majority of her magic. These two things are canon. So logically you can only scale Mirajane up to the power of the Tartarous demons in thier respective arc because that is the power she shown.


Before bring up she defeated Jacob understand the fight was a gag, off paneled and Jacob was considerably weakened and she still struggled. It was canonically stated and shown that indecent women is a considerable weakness towards him and he didn't use transport against her which is the only real threat ability he has.

Also don't give me the Skulion BS because on screen Skullion was completely dominating Mirajane while she was in BSS. It was shown and stated her physical and Nukes had zero effect on him. Then somehow magically off screen she can compete with him in the same form that was being completely dominated on Screen. You can't seriously tell me this isn't BS.

As far as Gray is concerned we canonically know he stood up equally against E.N.D which was shown and stated to be the strongest Demon. The same E.N.D that was above Dimaria and Brandish power. Given that he was above Brandish power with E.N.D power he would also be above his FDKM(That Brandish power still could effect) that one shotted an enchanted Nienheart and Jacob. It makes no logical sense that BSS could stand up against DeS Gray given that Mirajane needed Algeria to stand up against some enchanted swords in which case Gray stood equal to someone who was far superior to an enchanted Spriggan. The only way Hiro could conceive Mirajane giving Gray trouble was by off paneling it.

Going to Lucy the issue here is that there was no reason given why she can only go into Stardress Mix for a sec. We know for a fact it isn't as powerful as Leo and Virgo as she states it doesn't have the same power as them and it was stated to only use a portion of their power. Beyond that Stardress was also said to boost Lucy's magical power. So by all means logically it would cost way less magical power to use Stardress mix then to summon the spirits themselves.

Also why she doesn't use Gemini power to transform into Mirajane. Also don't give me the BS that Mirajane has more MP than Lucy when Lucy could summoning the CSK for longer an arc prior than Mirajane could use Algeria which is much weaker than the CSK. Both of them dried up a huge portion of water with unleashing their magic the only difference is Lucy did it during the Tartarous arc while Mirajane did it an arc later in Alveraz. Based off this there is no logically reason you claim Mirajane having more MP than Lucy.

Also the fact that Lissana being knocked out by Lion Maiden while she was in her strongest form but Elfman and Mirajane only receiving minor damage. This is inconsistent with Previous feats. Sayla nuke knocked out Mirajane in her Sitri form while the same nuke didn't knock Lissana in her cat form. Ajeel power heavily damaged Lissana and Elfman but didn't knock them out. With this said either Lissana shouldn't have been knocked out by Lion Maiden or Lion Maiden should have did way more damage to Elfman and Mirajane from a consistent point of view.

My point is that I want an Onscreen battle with neither side being nerfed and we see a logical and consistent battle.

As far as Juliet and Hyien is concerned, the reason they are called fodder is because they didn't actually take out any strong opponent or any opponent for real nor did they show any relevant attack power. The only reason people claim them to be strong is because Irene created them.
There is no suggesting that Gray beat Mira and Elfman lol.

Before their fight.

Gray: I will handle Mirajane because shes too injured.

Juvia, Cana: u think its cool??

Lucy: what about Elfman?

After their fight:

Cana: why did you struggle to a BEAT UP opponent? ( singular)

GRAY : BEcause shes Mirajane!!

JUVIA: at least you gave your all.


After white out has been lifted.

Mira : i dream of being beaten by Gray.
So she only dream of Gray beating her ( not including her brother. Elfman was never mentioned)

Then who did beat elfman?

Possible answer, Cana who can cast the fairy Glitter from the distance or Lucy' summoning Capricorn and Leo at the same time. Elfman cant even sustain her beat soul lion form. Even in the latest chapter he can ONLY use her beast arm.

Against Jacob, the last time i check Mira cant even use her satan soul for majority of their fight because she dont have any MP left. And She was only able to use it in her final blow. ( you can check the anime and Manga) and that was after her heart was pierced by August. Yes brandish saved her but it was mentioned that damage was still there.

As far as J & H, they already beat Base Satan Soul fair and square, that does not make them a fodder lol. But compare to Alegria that makes them fodder. (But still base satan soul is still a formidable form who can match skullion.)

Against Skullion, it was not complete domination from Skullion when the only thing he land was surprise kick and all his other attack was avoided by Satan Soul.

For lucy, she can only summon CSK in exchange of 1 of her keyS.

And lastly nothing is consistent in this manga.

Kyria able to fight on par with Erza (even erza acknowleding that Kyria was a formidable opponent) and manage to break the benizakura sword w/o breaking a sweat. But she cant scratch laxus?
 
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AmitDS

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To Start off Gray beat Mirajane and Elfman which simply proves Gray>Mirajane/Elfman. I don't understand how you got the opposite. They only thing with know for a fact about this fight is that Gray beat Mirajane and Elfman nothing else.
Well I read the manga and in said manga Gray said Mirajane was heavily injured to he'd take her then Cana mocked him for struggling against a beat up opponent to which Gray said it was Mirajane. Juvia said he did his best. Gray also said earlier that Mirajane and Skullion would be tough. So yeah Gray struggled against a heavily injured Mirajane while he was going all out against her and struggled to win. Elfman or no Elfman it's not up to debate at this point if BSS Mirajane is weaker, equal to or stronger than Gray. Add in that she drew with someone who easily beat him (Skullion) and you really have no point.







This is what we know:

Mirajane cannot be scaled above the Tartarous Demons she took over because she has not shown to be stronger than them if anything she has actually proven the opposite. While in Sayla form some foot soldiers ignored her command and she could only use Algeria(Plutogrim) for a sec before draining majority of her magic. These two things are canon. So logically you can only scale Mirajane up to the power of the Tartarous demons in thier respective arc because that is the power she shown.
She doesn't need to be 'shown stronger' than them because 2 time skips have gone by after she absorbed them and said she was training hard (before the final arc). See this is reaching on your part. Mirajane right now is weaker than Seilah in the Tartaros Arc? Is this what we're doing? Have you ever seen Seilah macro multiple people at the same time to draw a comparison?

And again with this? Haven't you been told already that Mirajane Alegria is not Mirajane using a takeover of Alegria (the cube demon) only? Mirajane Alegria is Alegria + souls of the Tartaros demons. Your constant denial of this while you spread this misinformation is puzzling to me. Mirajane's word > yours.

And if we really, really want to get into comparisons. Mirajane's weakest demon has been scaled in accordance with the power creep from Tartaros to now so logically all of her takeovers would have improved as she trains and grows as a mage. It happens to every character, weak, strong or average. It's not special or exclusive for a character and all their forms to improve as arcs go by, especially when time skip and training as involved. So again this is reaching and desperate to say that Mirajane is weaker than Tartaros demons when they were alive.


Before bring up she defeated Jacob understand the fight was a gag, off paneled and Jacob was considerably weakened and she still struggled. It was canonically stated and shown that indecent women is a considerable weakness towards him and he didn't use transport against her which is the only real threat ability he has.
I don't need to bring up Jacob actually because both of them were nerfed and as I said, we have the most recent feats i.e. drawing with Skullion and giving Gray extreme diff while heavily injured. Hype and apparently even feats don't matter for Mirajane.

Also don't give me the Skulion BS because on screen Skullion was completely dominating Mirajane while she was in BSS. It was shown and stated her physical and Nukes had zero effect on him. Then somehow magically off screen she can compete with him in the same form that was being completely dominated on Screen. You can't seriously tell me this isn't BS.
Well apart from the fact that you are ignoring that Gray and Lucy who've faced and seen him fight thought Mirajane could do it, what is your point? I find it funny someone talking about Erza vs Irene wants to invalidate Mira vs Skullion for 'lack of logic'.

Just because something hasn't been revealed yet doesn't make it BS. And even if it is BS we already knew Mira was stronger than Gray and was capable of fighting Skullion according to Gray himself.

As far as Gray is concerned we canonically know he stood up equally against E.N.D which was shown and stated to be the strongest Demon. The same E.N.D that was above Dimaria and Brandish power. Given that he was above Brandish power with E.N.D power he would also be above his FDKM(That Brandish power still could effect) that one shotted an enchanted Nienheart and Jacob. It makes no logical sense that BSS could stand up against DeS Gray given that Mirajane needed Algeria to stand up against some enchanted swords in which case Gray stood equal to someone who was far superior to an enchanted Spriggan. The only way Hiro could conceive Mirajane giving Gray trouble was by off paneling it.
Mashima didn't have any problem conceiving it when he had Gray wanking Mira all arc long, though. And that applies to other characters, just not Mirajane. How could DeS Gray be shrunk by Brandish or affected by Skullion if according to you he's on par with END Natsu and that automatically means he's above the spriggan and immune to their power?

And again you're talking about logical sense when power of friendship helped Gray in that entire arc and Erza with bare hands and no armors while heavily injured was able to take END and Gray's strongest attacks at the same time and not budge?

This is why this pretend outrage at Mirajane, only, seems odd to me. If Gray was so powerful he wouldn't struggle against Skullion in his DeS or be shrunk by Brandish while in DeS since you're mentioning END resisting her.

Going to Lucy the issue here is that there was no reason given why she can only go into Stardress Mix for a sec. We know for a fact it isn't as powerful as Leo and Virgo as she states it doesn't have the same power as them and it was stated to only use a portion of their power. Beyond that Stardress was also said to boost Lucy's magical power. So by all means logically it would cost way less magical power to use Stardress mix then to summon the spirits themselves.
Simply put, it is her trump card. Just like Alegria and even Nakagami. It has already been teased in this series that numerous special, OP moves only has for a short time or can only be used by exhausting a lot of magical power which is why they are aces and not standard techniques. You are creating rules from your own bias and interpretation which may not be accurate and using that to debate the manga and call out asspulls. Do you think Lucy with her star dress Mix is weaker than Leo or Virgo? Lucy can't use their powers as they use them. That's all that really is.


Clearly as Lisanna indicates, this is among Lucy's strongest moves so common sense would dictate that it is 1) above a normal star dress and 2) is not something she can easily use. Lucy takes in a portion of their powers and abilities and adds it to her own actual power to create her strongest form and pull off her highest level of spells. You want Lucy to spam Urano metria or spells possibly stronger? That has never been how it worked. Lucy even states what we all know. It's powerful so it's not spammable.





Also why she doesn't use Gemini power to transform into Mirajane. Also don't give me the BS that Mirajane has more MP than Lucy when Lucy could summoning the CSK for longer an arc prior than Mirajane could use Algeria which is much weaker than the CSK. Both of them dried up a huge portion of water with unleashing their magic the only difference is Lucy did it during the Tartarous arc while Mirajane did it an arc later in Alveraz. Based off this there is no logically reason you claim Mirajane having more MP than Lucy.
This is hilarious. She actually can't copy Mirajane because Mirajane has more magical power. I don't know what's so puzzling. Lucy summoned the CSK by sacrificing one of her keys and being someone strong enough to summon 3 spirits (Aquarius said this means she can likely summon him). Summoning him doesn't mean that Lucy has power equal to him or above Alegria for herself. That's a false equivalence and reeks of your personal bias. I can claim Mira has more magical power than Lucy because she has been shown stronger than Lucy in every arc including the current arc. She beat Freed in her weakest from when Lucy struggled to beat Bixlow with Leo and Happy, she matched Azuma when Lucy couldn't beat Kain Hikaru, she was part of the most reliable duo with Erza (the 2 strongest females in the guild) and matched base Seilah when Lucy couldn't beat Jackal without the CSK which required a great sacrifice.

Also the fact that Lissana being knocked out by Lion Maiden while she was in her strongest form but Elfman and Mirajane only receiving minor damage. This is inconsistent with Previous feats. Sayla nuke knocked out Mirajane in her Sitri form while the same nuke didn't knock Lissana in her cat form. Ajeel power heavily damaged Lissana and Elfman but didn't knock them out. With this said either Lissana shouldn't have been knocked out by Lion Maiden or Lion Maiden should have did way more damage to Elfman and Mirajane from a consistent point of view.
How is it inconsistent with previous feats? Are you saying Lisanna is stronger than Mirajane? Seilah directly hit Mira twice in her etherious forms while Seilah and Lammy were in range to got caught up in the AOE. They didn't get hit directly. Lisanna was also the target of Lucy's attack and the weakest of the 3. Lucy saying she'd be lucky if it took out Mira and Elfman too and her then saying she understands Mira tanking it but is shocked Elfman did the same, make perfect sense.



What is with you and pulling random instances and feats to join with others to make a rule? You act like Lucy has grown but Mirajane stayed the same as she was in Tartaros.

My point is that I want an Onscreen battle with neither side being nerfed and we see a logical and consistent battle.
And my point is that that is all fine and dandy but saying/implying that Lucy should and would beat Mirajane one vs one or Gray would beat Mirajane in the fight if it were on panel and they were both at full health, goes against manga canon outside of possible POF moments.

As far as Juliet and Hyien is concerned, the reason they are called fodder is because they didn't actually take out any strong opponent or any opponent for real nor did they show any relevant attack power. The only reason people claim them to be strong is because Irene created them.
It doesn't matter why fans call them fodder because logic dictates that giving Mirajane trouble when she's in the top 2 females in the guild and she'd been matching strong enemies before and after this incident with that form, means that they are not fodder. No the only reason people claim they are strong and are actually strong are because Mirajane called them strong, they handled her BSS well, they were sent to back up spriggan and they only targeted Mirajane and Makarov.




And this is coming from someone who likes Lucy and wanted her to get One Magic overpowered Goddess abilities in the original series. The fact of the matter is that Mirajane was powerful within FT before the first time skip and only trained and powered up like everyone else with each time skip so it's not crazy that she'd still be strong.
 
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Kurumi Tokisaki

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Mashima didn't have any problem conceiving it when he had Gray wanking Mira all arc long, though. And that applies to other characters, just not Mirajane. How could DeS Gray be shrunk by Brandish or affected by Skullion if according to you he's on par with END Natsu and that automatically means he's above the spriggan and immune to their power?

And again you're talking about logical sense when power of friendship helped Gray in that entire arc and Erza with bare hands and no armors while heavily injured was able to take END and Gray's strongest attacks at the same time and not budge? This is why this pretend outrage at Mirajane only seems odd to me. If Gray was so powerful he wouldn't struggle against Skullion in his DeS or be shrunk by Brandish while in DeS since you're mentioning END resisting her.
I don't why you bothered bringing DES Gray that fought Invel here and compare him with current one. Gray had a rage boost which he doesn't have right now. Current Gray is nowhere near as strong as the Gray that fought Invel. I suggest you stop using Erza catching both Gray and Natsu to downplay Gray. Erza durability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mirajane. Erza doen't need armors to tank stuff. Red pants is her go to choice and even against Laxus and Irene.

If you want to label Erza breaking the metoer as illogical bullshit. Might well as label Mirajane beating Jacob as illogical bullshit as well. Mirajane who needed her most strongest form to beat two swords somehow manages hang with Jacob who is a spiriggan with no takeovers and at the last minute one shot him with BSS which is also nothing but a bullshit
 

AmitDS

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I don't why you bothered bringing DES Gray that fought Invel here and compare him with current one. Gray had a rage boost which he doesn't have right now. Current Gray is nowhere near as strong as the Gray that fought Invel. I suggest you stop using Erza catching both Gray and Natsu to downplay Gray. Erza durability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mirajane. Erza doen't need armors to tank stuff. Red pants is her go to choice and even against Laxus and Irene.

If you want to label Erza breaking the metoer as illogical bullshit. Might well as label Mirajane beating Jacob as illogical bullshit as well. Mirajane who needed her most strongest form to beat two swords somehow manages hang with Jacob who is a spiriggan with no takeovers and at the last minute one shot him with BSS which is also nothing but a bullshit
And I don't know what your point is because the other person is using DeS Gray to prove a point that he can't be beaten by Mirajane now when I myself have said he had a boost from thinking Juvia died and it is thus an outlier and a POF moment. They're the one using Gray back then not me. I simply replied and continued talking about it after I already said that Gray right now can't measure up to Mira right now which is a manga fact.

And why can't I use Erza to 'downplay' Gray? It is clearly not logical that she'd take both of their attacks simultaneously when she was already injured and wearing no armor and according to the other person, that put Gray above the spriggan. Why is that logical?

They complain about Mira vs Lucy being illogical because Mira should have less magic than Lucy and be one shot by lion maiden but use DeS Gray to talk about logic and feats? That's my point. A lot of those feats are illogical and inconsistent so nitpicking DeS Gray feats from back then don't help. Neither does using Erza's feats which includes Irene's meteor and catching both boys ' attacks.

Whether she uses it vs Laxus and Irene is irrelevant since the argument being made is that DeS Gray back then is the same as the one right now and thus matching END is feat that means that Mira can't match him presently. Erza caught it with one hand a year ago while badly hurt. Why is the former considered but not the latter? Is Erza in that form back then stronger than the spriggan and that form of END and Gray?

You and I both know FT feats are sketchy so harping on one and ignoring context and POF moments don't really make sense or work.

So he matched END but Erza stopped him bare handed with one arm while heavily injured while taking partial END's attack on her other side. That is logical but Mira resisting his DeS enough to beat him is illogical when she's already stronger in her weakest form?

And, bringing in the other person's points, that would change if he fought her on panel because on panel means that Mashima has to let Gray's DeS work better and off panel doesn't count?

And please. Mira vs Jacob isn't as illogical as Erza vs Irene's strongest move. Nice try. And even if it was then okay they are both illogical so why is Mira vs Gray being treated as an outlier? It is hilarious that Mira vs Skullion and Gray are being called illogical but everything else in this series gets a pass. And that is my point.

So Gray can't be under Mira or lose to her because of something he did in a past arc over a year ago in rage /POF moments? Pls.

And funny how my points in my response to them are an issue but Lucy being stronger than Mira didn't garner your attention.

People can want whatever fight they wish as I myself stared that I want Mira vs Gray on panel to see how his DeS measures up. However saying or implying that Gray is supposed to win on panel and that Lucy has more magical power than Mira and should beat her one on one is ridiculous and both claims lack any backing from the manga right now.

Anyway this is all I'm saying on this matter. Fairy Tail feats are sketchy at best especially with emotions and POF involved and, people's insistance on harping on feats from past arcs to whine about current feats and hype placed to inform the readers, is puzzling imo. Mashima has made it clear what if POF outliers and what is standard power levels and fights especially within the ft guild. And yeah Lucy is my fav but she is clearly fighting for third place for ft girls and not a threat to Mira. So until further notice without POF Mira > Gray > Lucy but people can have any dream fight they wish. Doesn't really matter.
 
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Ramen

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Gray=Mira lol
 

Kurumi Tokisaki

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And please. Mira vs Jacob isn't as illogical as Erza vs Irene's strongest move. Nice try. And even if it was then okay they are both illogical so why is Mira vs Gray being treated as an outlier? It is hilarious that Mira vs Skullion and Gray are being called illogical but everything else in this series gets a pass. And that is my point.
Oh please they are both illogical as shit. Mira beating Jacob is same shit as Erza destroying that metoer. Difference is just that Erza's illogical bs is greater than Mira's illogical bullshit.

And why can't I use Erza to 'downplay' Gray? It is clearly not logical that she'd take both of their attacks simultaneously when she was already injured and wearing no armor and according to the other person, that put Gray above the spriggan. Why is that logical?
So what if she was injured, we know she has insane durability. There is nothing illogical here. Might well as call Mirajane surving against Jacob with no magic as insane as well. When has Erza used Armors to tank attacks against her villians. All her fodder armors gets destroyed instantly. Against Kyouka, Irene and now Laxus. Lol Erza doesn't need armors tank attacks. Her natural durability and endurance is insane.


So Gray can be under Mira or lose to her because of something he did in a past arc over a year ago in rage /POF moments? Pls.
Gray never lost to her though. Show a panel of Gray losing to Mira?
 

Axiomus

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There was no extreme diff match. Extreme diff is Acnologia vs Igneel or Natsu vs Zeref. Gray vs Mirajane was a high or mid-high diff.

Mirajane is no Erza. Erza can block Natsu's and Gray's punches with her bare hands, because Erza is just that strong. That doesn't mean Mira can do it.
 

BD_Beno

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Ax out here with concise statements that accomplish the same as the homies above writing 13-15 paragraph dissertations.
 

Ramen

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There was no extreme diff match. Extreme diff is Acnologia vs Igneel or Natsu vs Zeref. Gray vs Mirajane was a high or mid-high diff.

Mirajane is no Erza. Erza can block Natsu's and Gray's punches with her bare hands, because Erza is just that strong. That doesn't mean Mira can do it.
Hey, don't expose Mira stans like that. Let them have their fun.
 

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To Start off Gray beat Mirajane and Elfman which simply proves Gray>Mirajane/Elfman. I don't understand how you got the opposite. They only thing with know for a fact about this fight is that Gray beat Mirajane and Elfman nothing else.

This is what we know:

Mirajane cannot be scaled above the Tartarous Demons she took over because she has not shown to be stronger than them if anything she has actually proven the opposite. While in Sayla form some foot soldiers ignored her command and she could only use Algeria(Plutogrim) for a sec before draining majority of her magic. These two things are canon. So logically you can only scale Mirajane up to the power of the Tartarous demons in thier respective arc because that is the power she shown.
The fact she didn’t get one shot by Gray whilst the other Tartaros demons did already puts her above them???? Like? Damn people really do be ignoring what goes against their arguments.

If Mira was as strong as the Tartaros demons from two years ago she wouldn’t have stalemated Skullion or given Gray a high diff battle. How do you read manga with your eyes closed? Seems fun

Saying Mira is as strong as the demons from Tartaros literally contradicts canon. She one shots those demons from two years ago. The creator has shown Mira to be on equal footing with Skullion and Gray currently but somehow she scales to characters from Tartaros? I mean everything is in the manga. I guess whether we actually read the panels is optional.

Also what’s up with being more than one Mashima out there? Apparently Cosmic is also Mashima and knows the characters best and canon isn’t canon if he doesn’t like it.
 
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Ronin31

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I would like to see a fight between Gray and Gajeel or Juvia vs Wendy
 
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