Discussion Elizabeth

[Rigel]

Flash, Tornado and Ocean are their magics. It doesn't matter if the origin is the SD. Ludociel used spells too. There is no way the other Goddesses don't have magics, even Humans have them and Ark their equivalent of the PoD. IIRC, it's been said that Elizabeth awakened her magic already in the fan book but there is no name for it.

EDIT: We do know the magics of more Goddesses: Jenna and Zaneli.

Graces are not from the Archangels, it is something given by the Supreme Deity. Ark is the basic magic of the Clan.

I do not remember goddesses (with the exception of SD) showing their own magic (not counting Ark and its derivatives).

EDIT
I looked for these two goddesses. Apparently both have their own spells.

Anyway, I brought this just to give a basis for the argument.

 

[Undina]

Graces are not from the Archangels, it is something given by the Supreme Deity. Ark is the basic magic of the Clan.

I do not remember goddesses (with the exception of SD) showing their own magic (not counting Ark and its derivatives).

EDIT
I looked for these two goddesses. Apparently both have their own spells.

Anyway, I brought this just to give a basis for the argument.

Wait, we've seen the SD's innate magic?! I don't recall that...I mean, we've seen Elizabeth using a series of spells of which only 1 was also used by the AAs(Invigorate) and I have a feeling Hikari Are is specifically hers/part of her innate ability, but we've only seen the SD killing the crazy couple along with the DK by using unnamed attacks and we were also told she can offer blessings, but other than that, nothing very specific, like in Jenna and Zaneri's case.

 

[Rigel]

Wait, we've seen the SD's innate magic?! I don't recall that...I mean, we've seen Elizabeth using a series of spells of which only 1 was also used by the AAs(Invigorate) and I have a feeling Hikari Are is specifically hers/part of her innate ability, but we've only seen the SD killing the crazy couple along with the DK by using unnamed attacks and we were also told she can offer blessings, but other than that, nothing very specific, like in Jenna and Zaneri's case.

Sunshine, Tornado, Ocean and Flash are her spells.

Hikari Are seems to be just a derivative of Ark.

 

[kkck]

There is a difference between an innate magic and a spell though. I don't think we have seen any goddess use magic equivalent to gilthunders thunderbolt or howser's tempest. However we have seen them use a number of spells, some on which might or not be light based. Kinda like how demons can use spells with darkness as well.

 

[Demonspeed]

Graces are not from the Archangels, it is something given by the Supreme Deity. Ark is the basic magic of the Clan.

I do not remember goddesses (with the exception of SD) showing their own magic (not counting Ark and its derivatives).

EDIT
I looked for these two goddesses. Apparently both have their own spells.

Anyway, I brought this just to give a basis for the argument.

That's what I said. The origin is the SD but these Graces work as their Magics. Escanor has one and it's his Magic. Ark is a racial ability like PoD.

It doesn't replace other innate magics they can have like Full Counter, God, Trick Star and stuff. In the fan book Jenna and Zaneli's magics are named: Seal and Thunder Ray.

 

[Undina]

Sunshine, Tornado, Ocean and Flash are her spells.

Hikari Are seems to be just a derivative of Ark.

The Graces seem like aspects of her magic, not even spells, more like categories of spells, think about it like Chandler's situation(from the known versatile magic users in NnT), who has Full Counter, but also a plethora of other spells he can sort to match diverse purposes and adversaries.
Hikari Are might be a manifestation of Ark, but I have a feeling it's limited to being used by the royal family in the GC or just Elizabeth, when the AAs were arguing against Elizabeth saving the Induras, they seemed to imply she has specific skills that work on their state and the name of the spell is strongly symbolic in religion as it is the first manifestation of the Creative "Word" of God(as supreme entity) in Christianity bringing order into the chaos in the beginning of his "building" of the world.
I'm thinking there might be generic Ark with spells available to all users in the clan, then a superior form of it, Ark/Light is elemental as well, which only the royals can use with more complex/taxing spells(like a Grace or an actual Grace, we were never told only the AAs held Graces). The AAs didn't cast it themselves when supporting Elizabeth, but supplied her power up triskele with energy.

 

[PeanutButterJelly]

Arc is basic form of magic possessed by all Goddesses ( as Nerobasta could use it ). Tho , Omega arc or any other higher version of Arc is likely limited to the SD , Archangels and maybe Elizabeth.

 

[kkck]

Omega ark seems simply like a very powerful ark. The limiting factor in regards to it should be basically PL. You basically just need to have enough PL for an ark of that size to be powerful enough over a large area.

 

[PeanutButterJelly]

Omega ark seems simply like a very powerful ark. The limiting factor in regards to it should be basically PL. You basically just need to have enough PL for an ark of that size to be powerful enough over a large area.

What's PL ?

 

[Bøjan]

What's PL ?

Power Level.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Like others have mentioned, the Goddesses all have access to their ''ark'' but higher tier members can possibly use a much more effective or higher existence of ''light''.

Goddess Elizabeth using ''Let There Be Light'' is a prime example, since it's a reference to God in religion which is suitable as her position as princess (and daughter of God) - meaning the spell is exclusive to her only and her mother.

Ludoshel commented that the Indura's were not ''deserving'' of Elizabeth's salvation when she used the spell, which is funny considering how he always attempts to belittles her. Makes me believe that there is a higher order of light which only the royal family can use exclusively and hence ''salvation'' is the word Ludoshel chose - since filthy demons like Indura are not deserving of ''royal light''.

Would explain why Elizabeth's magic is superior to the AA's against Indura, how she slapped Meliodas in nerfed-human form and somehow did damage, how the AA's still want her support in nerfed-human form too etc etc.

Maybe the royal demons have access to a second tier demon mark whilst royal Goddesses can use a higher order/tier of light? Would make sense and fit each respective clan.

 

[Rigel]

I'd rather think that Elizabeth will have a magic (if she has one) that is more interesting and broader in concept. The Enhanced Ark is uninteresting and lazy. The Supreme Deity is an entity with an extremely vast and powerful light source. This light source allowed the creation of powerful spells like Sunshine, Tornado, Ocean and Flash. If Elizabeth inherited at least some of her mother's raw power, it may be possible that Liz has something as powerful as Sunshine. Something unique. This would add more weight to Elizabeth's importance and would be a justification for the goddesses wanting Liz back to the Clan.

 

[Undina]

True.



But how will she absorb the Graces as a human? It's only logical a Goddess can do it, especially when Ludoshel said any human would instantly died if they received yet.

So that makes me think she will only absorb the Graces after the curse breaks and she becomes a Goddess again.



She's daughter of a God.
Apparently in this chapter is being praised by the strongest Archangel - Mael.
AA's want her support.
Merlin praised her skills.
Slapped Assault Meliodas and MADE him SIT DOWN () with a bruised cheek - I don't see Escanor doing that before ''The One''.

Please start accepting that Elizabeth isn't some weak Goddess destined to heal for the rest of this series. Clearly Nakaba is hyping up her character for great moments to come.

Please break out the mindset that she is just a ''healer'' and she does nothing else, she slaps Meliodas like that she'll shred through any other demon lol pretty much.



How does that make her a hypocrite? She said ''Meliodas you absolutely must not become Demon King'', not ''None of us can become Gods because it's bad''.

Meliodas is a hypocrite - he basically told us at one point ''I don't ever want to be evil or become the guy I used to be again'' (AM) and then he enters it casually.

If it is needed (meaning last resort) then Elizabeth will take the Graces - I really don't see how the alliance is going to win against Demi-God Meliodas unless she does.



LOL Elizabeth thread best thread.

So far, we have one clear fact, Elizabeth has a human body, but her confirmed Goddess Soul and we know the soul usually contains Magic Power and is likely the actual source of the abilities a living being manifests.
We don't know about Escanor's soul, if it's human, or Mael's, or if even if it's Mael's, if it would have the same resources as Ellie's. In the last option, it would be un-awakened and he can't self-heal or boost his endurance, not the way a self-aware goddess can. If Escanor has Mael's soul, his awakening as his original self could help him overcome the problem Ludociel foreshadowed.
Also, while we don't know if Elizabeth got literally reborn into the druid bloodline(like from an actual human/druid mother), we do have it confirmed, ever since the unsealing of the TC, that her blood is highly compatible with her power, it served as the best possible conduit for the power to release 9 Elite Demons, out of which 2 Princes. Weakened as they were, they were still quite powerful next to her extremely nerfed form at that point.
So, I imagine she could go the Goddess counterpart to Ash!Demon Hendy, although a much better transformation as her body is more naturally attuned to the power it's supposed to hold(I have a feeling she'll just end up regrowing her original wings, or more than the original set).

 

[OtakuFreak]

So far, we have one clear fact, Elizabeth has a human body, but her confirmed Goddess Soul and we know the soul usually contains Magic Power and is likely the actual source of the abilities a living being manifests.
We don't know about Escanor's soul, if it's human, or Mael's, or if even if it's Mael's, if it would have the same resources as Ellie's. In the last option, it would be un-awakened and he can't self-heal or boost his endurance, not the way a self-aware goddess can. If Escanor has Mael's soul, his awakening as his original self could help him overcome the problem Ludociel foreshadowed.
Also, while we don't know if Elizabeth got literally reborn into the druid bloodline(like from an actual human/druid mother), we do have it confirmed, ever since the unsealing of the TC, that her blood is highly compatible with her power, it served as the best possible conduit for the power to release 9 Elite Demons, out of which 2 Princes. Weakened as they were, they were still quite powerful next to her extremely nerfed form at that point.
So, I imagine she could go the Goddess counterpart to Ash!Demon Hendy, although a much better transformation as her body is more naturally attuned to the power it's supposed to hold(I have a feeling she'll just end up regrowing her original wings, or more than the original set).

I really don't see her regrowing her wings while the curse is active. The curse dictates her to be reborn as a human, so growing wings out of nowhere makes no sense to me since only a Goddess can ever have them.

The only possibility I see Elizabeth taking the graces is if it's magic based dependent and not physical. If she has high magical power she might be able to control them and not ''explode''.

I think Elizabeth's blood being used to release the demons is just a coincidence - I think any Druid's blood is very effective to conduct their power since they use ''ark'' the light of the Goddesses.

Personally it would be more awesome if Elizabeth just returned to her prime self rather than growing half-full powered wings or something.

You are really good at twisting stuff, it was a fight, Escanor wanted to fight Meliodas, he gets trashed badly and he trashed and almost killed Meliodas ( although Meliodas wasn't totally awakened yet ) in the One form.

The title of the chapter even indicated that lmao ( wrath vs pride, etc )
Nice try tho.
Elizabeth didn't do shit on Meliodas that you can call, a battle feat. Just a lover quarrel lmao.
It was off guard move.
Purified yes ( in the category of healing, purifying and supporting, not offensive lol )

As I said, she only shows healing and supporting skills.

I'm not twisting stuff lol, just using the logic you applied to Elizabeth and as expected - it doesn't make any sense.

LOL because being off guard somehow magically reduces your durability right? Lol no.

Meliodas wasn't even off guard, he literally told her to slap him if she wanted to, he was expecting it coming. But what he did not expect to happen, is for the slap to send him across the room with a bruised cheek. She damaged Assault Meliodas to a better degree than Escanor before ''The One'' - Idk why u don't acknowledge this.

Purified isn't supportive. She took the offensive and attacked the Indura with her magic, she didn't sit there and heal anybody - it was a offensive manoeuvre.

She hasn't just shown healing and supporting skills - she's shown the ability to go on the offensive and not acknowledging this is once again ignoring manga events.

 

[Undina]

I really don't see her regrowing her wings while the curse is active. The curse dictates her to be reborn as a human, so growing wings out of nowhere makes no sense to me since only a Goddess can ever have them.

The only possibility I see Elizabeth taking the graces is if it's magic based dependent and not physical. If she has high magical power she might be able to control them and not ''explode''.

I think Elizabeth's blood being used to release the demons is just a coincidence - I think any Druid's blood is very effective to conduct their power since they use ''ark'' the light of the Goddesses.

Personally it would be more awesome if Elizabeth just returned to her prime self rather than growing half-full powered wings or something.

But to me, it seems more reasonable for her to return to her prime self while regrowing the wings that allow her to manifest her actual power plus the support from the Graces better; we do have WoG on the wings bearing testament to the power a goddess holds, I feel like that moment at the beginning of her first use of HA plus the cover for volume 26(?) are insinuating we'll end up seeing "this" Elizabeth as a goddess(remember, we also have the reminders that in her current form she's identical to her original one, only the bangs are slightly different, lol, and she's missing the wings, ofc). I imagine the wings regrowing as a natural side-effect to her regaining her full power and or attaining the Graces.
I don't think it's a coincidence, though, I recall Fraudrin pondering on whether that "fragmented" power(from the blood) would suffice, and, in hindsight, it seems that he was also aware of the curse and specifically needed her blood for the ritual, he specifically went through the trouble of challenging Meliodas and his team over her blood and his artifact, instead of trying to gather a bunch of unsuspecting druids and sacrifice them over the completed CoED, while simply messing with Mel, Ellie(for vengeance) and co differently.

 

[sobreno]

I really don't see her regrowing her wings while the curse is active. The curse dictates her to be reborn as a human, so growing wings out of nowhere makes no sense to me since only a Goddess can ever have them.

The only possibility I see Elizabeth taking the graces is if it's magic based dependent and not physical. If she has high magical power she might be able to control them and not ''explode''.

I think Elizabeth's blood being used to release the demons is just a coincidence - I think any Druid's blood is very effective to conduct their power since they use ''ark'' the light of the Goddesses.

Personally it would be more awesome if Elizabeth just returned to her prime self rather than growing half-full powered wings or something.



I'm not twisting stuff lol, just using the logic you applied to Elizabeth and as expected - it doesn't make any sense.

LOL because being off guard somehow magically reduces your durability right? Lol no.

Meliodas wasn't even off guard, he literally told her to slap him if she wanted to, he was expecting it coming. But what he did not expect to happen, is for the slap to send him across the room with a bruised cheek. She damaged Assault Meliodas to a better degree than Escanor before ''The One'' - Idk why u don't acknowledge this.

Purified isn't supportive. She took the offensive and attacked the Indura with her magic, she didn't sit there and heal anybody - it was a offensive manoeuvre.

She hasn't just shown healing and supporting skills - she's shown the ability to go on the offensive and not acknowledging this is once again ignoring manga events.

Which you failed miserably, one is a real fight, the other is just a quarrel lmao.
Yeah because an Ark which explodes is risking for a Demons if he didn't use his darkness to counter it in time.

Meliodas let her do it and nope, he didn't have any damage lmao, a little bruise that disappears instantly isn't some damage. Nice wank at again comparing her to the sun guy, you are truly a fanboy lol.

Yes, purification is under the supporting skill, even healing, not offensive, that is self-obvious, try again.

You keep saying " ignoring the manga events " when ironically, you are the one doing that here, she has only show healing and supporting skills, even the new chapter point ( again ) that out.

 

[OtakuFreak]

But to me, it seems more reasonable for her to return to her prime self while regrowing the wings that allow her to manifest her actual power plus the support from the Graces better; we do have WoG on the wings bearing testament to the power a goddess holds, I feel like that moment at the beginning of her first use of HA plus the cover for volume 26(?) are insinuating we'll end up seeing "this" Elizabeth as a goddess(remember, we also have the reminders that in her current form she's identical to her original one, only the bangs are slightly different, lol, and she's missing the wings, ofc). I imagine the wings regrowing as a natural side-effect to her regaining her full power and or attaining the Graces.
I don't think it's a coincidence, though, I recall Fraudrin pondering on whether that "fragmented" power(from the blood) would suffice, and, in hindsight, it seems that he was also aware of the curse and specifically needed her blood for the ritual, he specifically went through the trouble of challenging Meliodas and his team over her blood and his artifact, instead of trying to gather a bunch of unsuspecting druids and sacrifice them over the completed CoED, while simply messing with Mel, Ellie(for vengeance) and co differently.

I agree. Volume 28 is probably what you're referencing to, which has Elizabeth manifesting 3 pairs of Goddess wings.

But Elizabeth indirectly said herself that she wasn't as strong as her Goddess form when she was commenting on reversing Meliodas condition.

If she did obtain the graces or got her wings back then it should give her full power back.

But why her blood tho? That hasn't been explained yet ( =( ) - I agree tho.

Which you failed miserably, one is a real fight, the other is just a quarrel lmao.
Yeah because an Ark which explodes is risking for a Demons if he didn't use his darkness to counter it in time.

Meliodas let her do it and nope, he didn't have any damage lmao, a little bruise that disappears instantly isn't some damage. Nice wank at again comparing her to the sun guy, you are truly a fanboy lol.

Yes, purification is under the supporting skill, even healing, not offensive, that is self-obvious, try again.

You keep saying " ignoring the manga events " when ironically, you are the one doing that here, she has only show healing and supporting skills, even the new chapter point ( again ) that out.

Meliodas basically wiped Escanor until noon - not a full fight.

Meliodas against his siblings isn't even a fight - it's just him sitting on them with his darkness.

etc

''He let her do it''. LOL so? She still damaged him - a bruise is a cheek, something Escanor couldn't do until full noon - pls stop, damage is damage.

Elizabeth went after the Indura with her magic, she took the offensive and attacked THEM instead of vice-versa. It doesn't matter if it the end result is purification, she pro-actively went for them instead of reacting to them in a defense way, or instead support the AA's. Not everything has to result in damage for it to be ''offensive'' - if you look at it one way she basically disarmed the Indura, which is a offensive strategy.

You keep saying " ignoring the manga events " when ironically, you are the one doing that here

But I'm not? All I need to disprove your statement of ''she only has shown healing or support skills'' is to mention Elizabeth melting Derriere's hand, or slapping Meliodas. Now would you consider slapping and melting someone's hand as a ''support skill'' or as a ''offensive skill'' ?

??

 

[Undina]

Which you failed miserably, one is a real fight, the other is just a quarrel lmao.
Yeah because an Ark which explodes is risking for a Demons if he didn't use his darkness to counter it in time.

Meliodas let her do it and nope, he didn't have any damage lmao, a little bruise that disappears instantly isn't some damage. Nice wank at again comparing her to the sun guy, you are truly a fanboy lol.

Yes, purification is under the supporting skill, even healing, not offensive, that is self-obvious, try again.

You keep saying " ignoring the manga events " when ironically, you are the one doing that here, she has only show healing and supporting skills, even the new chapter point ( again ) that out.

Thank you for arguing against your own points, you just proved she does have the power to go against Prime Meliodas(even in nerfed form), if she were weak, the exploding ark wouldn't have budged the physical strength monster, much less blown him into the furniture across the room, you're saying it yourself, she has the power and offensive ability to make a stand against her opponents and that's a manga proven fact.
Her kind of purification is in fact dis-spelling of power buffs(which PoD brings about in demons), acknowledge the meaning nuance a term is given into the de facto material first and then you can start making a point, if you understand what "purification" of PoD means to demons.

An explosive Ark is an energy blast that even damages landscape, trees and buildings(as seen in the manga), it can damage anything and everything if used carelessly and it remains an offensive skill in the hands of Elizabeth.

Several other people than the few you accuse of being "fanboys" have tried to explain it to you before, you're still in denial.
Expect to be blocked if you don't at least learn to abstain from bashing, even if you can't like the character, no matter what she does or is said to do.

 

[sobreno]

I agree. Volume 28 is probably what you're referencing to, which has Elizabeth manifesting 3 pairs of Goddess wings.

But Elizabeth indirectly said herself that she wasn't as strong as her Goddess form when she was commenting on reversing Meliodas condition.

If she did obtain the graces or got her wings back then it should give her full power back.

But why her blood tho? That hasn't been explained yet ( =( ) - I agree tho.



Meliodas basically wiped Escanor until noon - not a full fight.

Meliodas against his siblings isn't even a fight - it's just him sitting on them with his darkness.

etc

''He let her do it''. LOL so? She still damaged him - a bruise is a cheek, something Escanor couldn't do until full noon - pls stop, damage is damage.

Elizabeth went after the Indura with her magic, she took the offensive and attacked THEM instead of vice-versa. It doesn't matter if it the end result is purification, she pro-actively went for them instead of reacting to them in a defense way, or instead support the AA's. Not everything has to result in damage for it to be ''offensive'' - if you look at it one way she basically disarmed the Indura, which is a offensive strategy.

You keep saying " ignoring the manga events " when ironically, you are the one doing that here

But I'm not? All I need to disprove your statement of ''she only has shown healing or support skills'' is to mention Elizabeth melting Derriere's hand, or slapping Meliodas. Now would you consider slapping and melting someone's hand as a ''support skill'' or as a ''offensive skill'' ?

??

The contest was a fight, the difference in their power doesn't matter here.

Since when I said it was a fight? He soloed them, Escanor actually resisted him ( because Meliodas played with his prey ) and even have the chance go into the One to finish him off. ( thanks to the plot lol )

Nope, she didn't damage him, the damage is something that incapacitates, not a mere bruise lmao. It is you who should stop your wank.

Nope again, as I said, it isn't an offensive magic, no matter how you twist it, it was a concept far from it. Purification is a supportive skill, any idiot know that.
Yes, you are ignoring the manga and twisting things like a mere lover quarrel slap that any shonen female do against the MC, typical stuff.

Try again.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Thank you for arguing against your own points, you just proved she does have the power to go against Prime Meliodas(even in nerfed form), if she were weak, the exploding ark wouldn't have budged the physical strength monster, much less blown him into the furniture across the room, you're saying it yourself, she has the power and offensive ability to make a stand against her opponents and that's a manga proven fact.

And this is why I love you, found the core problem of his argument before I had chance to edit mine.

Nope, she didn't damage him, the damage is something that incapacitates, not a mere bruise lmao. It is you who should stop your wank.

Urm, okay?