Discussion Estimating Characters PL

[Seven777]

While I do not think current Eli is 100k your solution in no way takes into consideration the character so it wasn’t a good rebuttal. Your last statement is however logical.

She is human with her powers recovered to an unknown degree that is definetely not what it used to be. She has memory and therefore techniques she had known but it cannot be said that those skills and techniques are backed up by the raw power she had ounce had. I believe that the fact that she has no natural wings and had stated her power not to be the same would attest to that

What do you mean? Is it in character for Eli to let friends die if she can do something about it? If so i think im interpreting the manga pretty differently to you.

Fair enough on the second part.

 

[T25]

What do you mean? Is it in character for Eli to let friends die if she can do something about it? If so i think im interpreting the manga pretty differently to you.

Fair enough on the second part.

No no. That was your last statement. I agreed with your last statement. But before that you had said that she would only have to “go back and help them kill chandler” that was the solution you gave that I believe ignores Eli’s character and therefore a bad rebuttal on your part. Does that make sense?

(Oh just noticed I misspelled “once”....oops)

 

[Inuhanyou123]

100k is pushing it in her human form to be fair.

I only believe she's 100k or more (AA tier) as a Goddess. As a human she's considerably weaker - so probably commandment tier tbh

I dont really get why you think that, if the AA's themselves even in bodies that arent theirs that were suffering from their graces and now have had to discard them for incomplete goddess bodies that wont be around that much longer are still as strong as 2 commandments. Elizabeth's throwaway line doesnt mean she is not AA level in the magic department IMO. "Being in a human body" should not mean anything for her power, whatever it is revealed to be.

In addition to that....my rebuttal to your post @Seven777 is similar to T25 in that, if Elizabeth was intent on saving glox and drole and not letting them do what they pleased in terms of sacrificing themselves, it would not have mattered whether she had powers or not, capable of helping them or not, if she was not willing to let them do what they wanted to atone for falling 'to the dark side'.

She would have at the very least shouted out to them to let them know she was against it. But she resigned to let them do what they pleased and was happy that they had come back to help them at the final moment to escape.

Again, going back there regardless of what PL she had meant giving up mel, putting the rest of the boar hat in danger, especially when she was not going to be fighting Chandler, much less killing him as you say she should have done, for two people who had resigned themselves to die fighting after giving up their titles.

Your stretching things to make it seem like elizabeth has any obligation to help them if her magical power is strong, and if she doesnt it just means she automatically is incapable of doing anything, which is completely unfair based on what she has already done IMO

 

[Seven777]

I dont really get why you think that, if the AA's themselves even in bodies that arent theirs that were suffering from their graces and now have had to discard them for incomplete goddess bodies that wont be around that much longer are still as strong as 2 commandments. Elizabeth's throwaway line doesnt mean she is not AA level in the magic department IMO. "Being in a human body" should not mean anything for her power, whatever it is revealed to be.

In addition to that....my rebuttal to your post @Seven777 is similar to T25 in that, if Elizabeth was intent on saving glox and drole and not letting them do what they pleased in terms of sacrificing themselves, it would not have mattered whether she had powers or not, capable of helping them or not, if she was not willing to let them do what they wanted to atone for falling 'to the dark side'.

She would have at the very least shouted out to them to let them know she was against it. But she resigned to let them do what they pleased and was happy that they had come back to help them at the final moment to escape.

Again, going back there regardless of what PL she had meant giving up mel, putting the rest of the boar hat in danger, especially when she was not going to be fighting Chandler, much less killing him as you say she should have done, for two people who had resigned themselves to die fighting after giving up their titles.

Your stretching things to make it seem like elizabeth has any obligation to help them if her magical power is strong, and if she doesnt it just means she automatically is incapable of doing anything, which is completely unfair based on what she has already done IMO

Letting the two sacrifice themselves to fail at something that they couldve accomplished with her help isnt her honoring their wishes, its her letting them die for nothing. She didnt object because they were atoning, seeing as she didnt object to King and Diane staying behind with them, the reason she didnt object was because she needed them to do what they did. Even going back earlier when the Sins were fighting Chandler, firing off 100k+ arks that are super effective against demons to defeat him wouldve ended the fight long before anyone got majorly hurt, but instead she chose to do nothing and wait until everyone was critically injured before she decided to step up and help them out by healing em, makes no sense. Either Eli didnt have the power to help or she's so inept at combat that she wasnt confident enough to take a shot at beating him despite her enormous PL.
Im not stretching anything, she DOES have an obligation to help them if her magical power is that strong, if she doesnt then she is not only a terrible friend but also a despicable human/goddess being.

Anyway, 100k+ is way too high, even Ludociel shouldnt be too far above 100k.

 

[Master of the Sun]

How strong is current Dreyfus?

 

[Mythoclast]

100k Elizabeth would be absolute rubbish.

 

[JOA20]

How strong is current Dreyfus?

I don't think Full Size gives him that much of a power-up... I'd go for 10-15k at most. Fraudrin's Magic is 13k, Dreyfus' base is 3k.

 

[Master of the Sun]

Chandler easily killed Dolor and Glox and would have killed the Sins if not for Meliodas.
He is 60k at most cuz the kings put a few scratches on him.
Elizabeth heals the Sins once in that fight and she is 100k.
Seems legit.

 

[HereNThere]

How strong is current Dreyfus?

Dreyfus is interesting, as his magic allows him to be as strong as his will is. We saw this when he practically stomped a Diane who had her Sacred Treasure when he was in his peak mindset and again when he fought Fraudrin and forced him to use his magic to survive Dreyfus' attack.

With that said, his actual power level was 3000, 1000 across the board. If he got all of Fraudrin's magical stats, he should be 16k. If he also received Fraudrin's spirit, he should be at 19k. I don't know how much Full Size adds to physical stats, but I imagine it doubles his physical strength seeing as how he was equal to one of Mel's clones after he came back from Purgatory.

 

[Mythoclast]

Chandler easily killed Dolor and Glox and would have killed the Sins if not for Meliodas.
He is 60k at most cuz the kings put a few scratches on him.
Elizabeth heals the Sins once in that fight and she is 100k.
Seems legit.

True form Chandler is easily higher than 60k.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Elizabeth heals the Sins once in that fight and she is 100k.
Seems legit.

No one ever said that she's 100k based on that fight alone

If you ever actually read the posts in the Elizabeth thread you might have a better grasp of why some of us claim that she's AA tier or higher.

But you don't. I imagine you just saw a line of ''Elizabeth is 100k'' and equated it to us saying she is based on healing alone?

 

[Shutensatsu]

100k Elizabeth would be absolute rubbish.

Elizabeth heals the Sins once in that fight and she is 100k.
Seems legit.

Elizabeth is clearly 100K+.

One of the only 50 times she was nearly killed and needed to be rescued was by Chandler’s skin:

Spoiler

What 100K+ fighter wouldn’t nearly be successfully assassinated by Chandler’s skin?

Cusack?

Prime Meliodas?

114K Escanor?

Ludociel?

Even 100K+ warriors like them would need an ally to buy time and compose themselves when faced with Chandler’s almighty skin.

 

[TarXan]

Until otherwise I refuse to acknowledge that Elizabeth is 100k just by showing proficiency in Ark and healing

100k would mean she’d have the strongest magic stat in Taizai, literally double Gloxinia

She’s 20 to 50k max until we get confirmation

 

[OtakuFreak]

Until otherwise I refuse to acknowledge that Elizabeth is 100k just by showing proficiency in Ark and healing

100k would mean she’d have the strongest magic stat in Taizai, literally double Gloxinia

She’s 20 to 50k max until we get confirmation

I don't know why you're refusing to accept it when Nakaba has already hinted at her PL with the whole Goddess wings = power conversion.

And she happens to have wings that are on par with Ludoshel, and undeniably larger/longer than Sariel.

So realistically, with most or all of her feats being magic + wings = she should be AA tier minimum (near 90k) with all of it being mostly magic.

If Nakaba does turn around and confirm her to be AA tier or higher, then don't be salty about it when Nakaba has clearly highlighted that her powers aren't average and seem to be special

 

[Seven777]

I don't know why you're refusing to accept it when Nakaba has already hinted at her PL with the whole Goddess wings = power conversion.

And she happens to have wings that are on par with Ludoshel, and undeniably larger/longer than Sariel.

So realistically, with most or all of her feats being magic + wings = she should be AA tier minimum (near 90k) with all of it being mostly magic.

If Nakaba does turn around and confirm her to be AA tier or higher, then don't be salty about it when Nakaba has clearly highlighted that her powers aren't average and seem to be special

Eli's wings look as big as Ludociels when you look at the size of their wings compared to their bodies, but Ludociel is at least a foot taller than Elizabeth, his wings are quite a bit bigger.
That aside, when was it ever said that wing-size=power? Goddess wings seem to be pretty inconsistent, with fodder Grey Demon tier Goddesses having bigger wings than any AA, some goddesses have 2 wings or 4 or 6. Honestly, it just looks like wings size is designed to look cool rather than to convey any level of power.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Eli's wings look as big as Ludociels when you look at the size of their wings compared to their bodies, but Ludociel is at least a foot taller than Elizabeth, his wings are quite a bit bigger.
That aside, when was it ever said that wing-size=power? Goddess wings seem to be pretty inconsistent, with fodder Grey Demon tier Goddesses having bigger wings than any AA, some goddesses have 2 wings or 4 or 6. Honestly, it just looks like wings size is designed to look cool rather than to convey any level of power.

I mean Ludoshel is taller, but Elizabeth's wings extend past her body, so in a sense it's equivalent?

Plus, the bodies don't matter, it's the wings entirely, and by looking at them, Ludoshel and Elizabeth wings seem on par with each other. Some pages have hers being larger/longer than his and vice versa based on the level of detail and angle of the situation etc

And since wings = power and we see that being displayed in how Ludoshels larger wings = him being superior to Sariel.

Plus, sure, I imagine Nakaba draws them to make the characters look cool, but one of the purposes is to display a characters power.

I mean look at Ludoshel. Supposedly he's 100k with four wings, but the Supreme Goddesses has 10... just shows the difference in power.

Nakaba confirmed it, I'm sure the moderators have the source and that's why Elizabeth should be AA tier as a Goddess, since her wings display her power. In terms of ratio, it's probably all magic.

 

[sobreno]

I mean Ludoshel is taller, but Elizabeth's wings extend past her body, so in a sense it's equivalent?

Plus, the bodies don't matter, it's the wings entirely, and by looking at them, Ludoshel and Elizabeth wings seem on par with each other. Some pages have hers being larger/longer than his and vice versa based on the level of detail and angle of the situation etc

And since wings = power and we see that being displayed in how Ludoshels larger wings = him being superior to Sariel.

Plus, sure, I imagine Nakaba draws them to make the characters look cool, but one of the purposes is to display a characters power.

I mean look at Ludoshel. Supposedly he's 100k with four wings, but the Supreme Goddesses has 10... just shows the difference in power.

Nakaba confirmed it, I'm sure the moderators have the source and that's why Elizabeth should be AA tier as a Goddess, since her wings display her power. In terms of ratio, it's probably all magic.

Nope, she isn't, your wank is still as atrocious as ever lol. You are AA tier with a grace, not without it.

And you forgot that unlike them, she isn't a fighter at all. Ludo isn't at 100K either.

 

[Bøjan]

Oh well.... here we go again

 

[OtakuFreak]

Nope, she isn't, your wank is still as atrocious as ever lol. You are AA tier with a grace, not without it.

And you forgot that unlike them, she isn't a fighter at all. Ludo isn't at 100K either.

It doesn't matter. Besides sunshine, the graces don't grant PL, they are just magical abilities, so even without one, based on wings, Elizabeth PL should be close to the AA besides Mael based on the context.

Nakaba confirmed that Goddesses display their power through the volume of their wings.

The Supreme Goddess is the strongest in the clan and is a God, and that's demonstrated in her 10 monstrous wings that dwarf her daughter. Elizabeth literally looks like an insect in comparison to her.

The Four Archangels are the strongest warriors and that's expressed by their wings. In order of size: Mael > Ludoshel > Sariel/Tarmiel is the rank of power, and it's very accurate based on feats.

Divine Lance Corporals or Fodder Goddesses only have 2 wings, and depending on where they in the clan, have tiny tiny wings. Heck, even Kings wings at the minute look bigger than the smallest Goddesses wings lol.

So clearly the wing system of power works, as it's consistent with the hierarchy in the clan.

So why is it when Elizabeth has wings which are superior to that of Sariel and arguably based on subjective intrepration, on par or slightly larger than Ludoshels but inferior to Maels, the fandom becomes ignorant and uses every pathetic excuse in the book to deny her the right to be placed equal, or at the higher end of the Archangel class. Why do we deny her that right when she deserves it? Because from my point of view:

-Her wings are AA tier, so her PL must be as well since the hierarchy of the clan is consistent with the wings.

-She's a princess and a child of a literal God. No on ever downplays that aspect of Meliodas and Zeldris character and powers, but with Elizabeth it's irrelevant and doesn't matter at all?

-Has been praised by the AA consistently for her magic, been asked multiple times to help them, and even ended up saving them on multiple occasions.

- Even in a weaker form, still ends up having mid-tier and good feats and isn't completely useless.

-Based on feats, which everyone loves to disregard for Elizabeth only, Has superior ark and magic power to the Archangels.

But even though these points are true, everyone downplays her so hard. Why? Either it's ignorance or people on this forum are that biased against a pacifist and sweet hearted girl that they refuse to accept her as anything as fanservice and a occasional healer.

And @sobreno, just because she isn't a warrior doesn't mean anything. Meliodas went from a murderer to the sweet captain he was, did he actually lose any power? No.

So don't try to do the opposite for Elizabeth. Sure, her nature limits her but it doesn't weaken her.

I can understand why people are wary of putting her at 100k, but the statements of putting her at 50k or lower max is just stupid and ignorance in my opinion, and they'll be the people to flip and call bullshit at Nakaba if he does confirm her to be close to 100k.

I mean, someone can feel free to explain it to me. But why do we low-ball Elizabeth's power when other characters with little to no feats get high-balled?

Mael has no feats besides a title and a grace which might work differently yet people agree with me that he could be 200k+ at noon.

Zeldris doesn't have many conclusive feats besides fancy titles. Ah but wait, "daughter of the Supreme Goddess" means nothing, so that must mean his titles mean squat to.

But don't worry let's place Zeldris at AA tier or even 120k when we have less feats or moments of power for him. Heck, Zeldris just gets owned, over and over again but people still high-ball him lol.

People really need to look through the same lens with Elizabeth. Because from what I'm seeing people are just heavily biased against her or plain ignorant.

Her wings as a Goddess demonstrate that she is AA tier, or at minimum, close to them in PL, there is no denying that since the author confirmed they are a representation of power... YET this fandom still claims ignorance.

Oh well.... here we go again

Well you know... it's not the nanatsu no taizai forums if me and Sobreno are not arguing about Elizabeth at least once a week.

 

[sobreno]

It doesn't matter. Besides sunshine, the graces don't grant PL, they are just magical abilities, so even without one, based on wings, Elizabeth PL should be close to the AA besides Mael based on the context.

Nakaba confirmed that Goddesses display their power through the volume of their wings.

The Supreme Goddess is the strongest in the clan and is a God, and that's demonstrated in her 10 monstrous wings that dwarf her daughter. Elizabeth literally looks like an insect in comparison to her.

The Four Archangels are the strongest warriors and that's expressed by their wings. In order of size: Mael > Ludoshel > Sariel/Tarmiel is the rank of power, and it's very accurate based on feats.

Divine Lance Corporals or Fodder Goddesses only have 2 wings, and depending on where they in the clan, have tiny tiny wings. Heck, even Kings wings at the minute look bigger than the smallest Goddesses wings lol.

So clearly the wing system of power works, as it's consistent with the hierarchy in the clan.

So why is it when Elizabeth has wings which are superior to that of Sariel and arguably based on subjective intrepration, on par or slightly larger than Ludoshels but inferior to Maels, the fandom becomes ignorant and uses every pathetic excuse in the book to deny her the right to be placed equal, or at the higher end of the Archangel class. Why do we deny her that right when she deserves it? Because from my point of view:

-Her wings are AA tier, so her PL must be as well since the hierarchy of the clan is consistent with the wings.

-She's a princess and a child of a literal God. No on ever downplays that aspect of Meliodas and Zeldris character and powers, but with Elizabeth it's irrelevant and doesn't matter at all?

-Has been praised by the AA consistently for her magic, been asked multiple times to help them, and even ended up saving them on multiple occasions.

- Even in a weaker form, still ends up having mid-tier and good feats and isn't completely useless.

-Based on feats, which everyone loves to disregard for Elizabeth only, Has superior ark and magic power to the Archangels.

But even though these points are true, everyone downplays her so hard. Why? Either it's ignorance or people on this forum are that biased against a pacifist and sweet hearted girl that they refuse to accept her as anything as fanservice and a occasional healer.

And @sobreno, just because she isn't a warrior doesn't mean anything. Meliodas went from a murderer to the sweet captain he was, did he actually lose any power? No.

So don't try to do the opposite for Elizabeth. Sure, her nature limits her but it doesn't weaken her.

I can understand why people are wary of putting her at 100k, but the statements of putting her at 50k or lower max is just stupid and ignorance in my opinion, and they'll be the people to flip and call bullshit at Nakaba if he does confirm her to be close to 100k.

I mean, someone can feel free to explain it to me. But why do we low-ball Elizabeth's power when other characters with little to no feats get high-balled?

Mael has no feats besides a title and a grace which might work differently yet people agree with me that he could be 200k+ at noon.

Zeldris doesn't have many conclusive feats besides fancy titles. Ah but wait, "daughter of the Supreme Goddess" means nothing, so that must mean his titles mean squat to.

But don't worry let's place Zeldris at AA tier or even 120k when we have less feats or moments of power for him. Heck, Zeldris just gets owned, over and over again but people still high-ball him lol.

People really need to look through the same lens with Elizabeth. Because from what I'm seeing people are just heavily biased against her or plain ignorant.

Her wings as a Goddess demonstrate that she is AA tier, or at minimum, close to them in PL, there is no denying that since the author confirmed they are a representation of power... YET this fandom still claims ignorance.



Well you know... it's not the nanatsu no taizai forums if me and Sobreno are not arguing about Elizabeth at least once a week.

Lol what? Yes, it increases their powers beyond their owns Goddess power, that is self obvious.

Nope, she isn't close to their levels based on context, but based on your wank toward her, she has nothing close their levels.
Her wings size doesn't matter when she hasn't displayed the same fighting ability of the Archangels, oh wait, she can't since everyone know that she is a pacifist lol.

Yes, she is a princess which is the problem, Meliodas and Zeldoris are more than just mere princes, they are soldiers as well + received commandments.

She has nothing like that so far

The context as always, they were praising her healing ability, not her fighting skill like you are trying to apply thanks to your usual wank

She doesn't have superior magic, nowhere it is said that her magic is that superior + her Ark isn't that impressive, she never showed Omega Ark, the strongest version of Ark

Yes, she is viewed like that because she is a healer + all the fanservice of the manga belongs to her, who do you think gave us fanservice since chapter 1? It is her lmao.

Nakaba admitted that the groping stuff is the fanservice that he wanted for the series.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 11, 2018 ---

It doesn't matter. Besides sunshine, the graces don't grant PL, they are just magical abilities, so even without one, based on wings, Elizabeth PL should be close to the AA besides Mael based on the context.

Nakaba confirmed that Goddesses display their power through the volume of their wings.

The Supreme Goddess is the strongest in the clan and is a God, and that's demonstrated in her 10 monstrous wings that dwarf her daughter. Elizabeth literally looks like an insect in comparison to her.

The Four Archangels are the strongest warriors and that's expressed by their wings. In order of size: Mael > Ludoshel > Sariel/Tarmiel is the rank of power, and it's very accurate based on feats.

Divine Lance Corporals or Fodder Goddesses only have 2 wings, and depending on where they in the clan, have tiny tiny wings. Heck, even Kings wings at the minute look bigger than the smallest Goddesses wings lol.

So clearly the wing system of power works, as it's consistent with the hierarchy in the clan.

So why is it when Elizabeth has wings which are superior to that of Sariel and arguably based on subjective intrepration, on par or slightly larger than Ludoshels but inferior to Maels, the fandom becomes ignorant and uses every pathetic excuse in the book to deny her the right to be placed equal, or at the higher end of the Archangel class. Why do we deny her that right when she deserves it? Because from my point of view:

-Her wings are AA tier, so her PL must be as well since the hierarchy of the clan is consistent with the wings.

-She's a princess and a child of a literal God. No on ever downplays that aspect of Meliodas and Zeldris character and powers, but with Elizabeth it's irrelevant and doesn't matter at all?

-Has been praised by the AA consistently for her magic, been asked multiple times to help them, and even ended up saving them on multiple occasions.

- Even in a weaker form, still ends up having mid-tier and good feats and isn't completely useless.

-Based on feats, which everyone loves to disregard for Elizabeth only, Has superior ark and magic power to the Archangels.

But even though these points are true, everyone downplays her so hard. Why? Either it's ignorance or people on this forum are that biased against a pacifist and sweet hearted girl that they refuse to accept her as anything as fanservice and a occasional healer.

And @sobreno, just because she isn't a warrior doesn't mean anything. Meliodas went from a murderer to the sweet captain he was, did he actually lose any power? No.

So don't try to do the opposite for Elizabeth. Sure, her nature limits her but it doesn't weaken her.

I can understand why people are wary of putting her at 100k, but the statements of putting her at 50k or lower max is just stupid and ignorance in my opinion, and they'll be the people to flip and call bullshit at Nakaba if he does confirm her to be close to 100k.

I mean, someone can feel free to explain it to me. But why do we low-ball Elizabeth's power when other characters with little to no feats get high-balled?

Mael has no feats besides a title and a grace which might work differently yet people agree with me that he could be 200k+ at noon.

Zeldris doesn't have many conclusive feats besides fancy titles. Ah but wait, "daughter of the Supreme Goddess" means nothing, so that must mean his titles mean squat to.

But don't worry let's place Zeldris at AA tier or even 120k when we have less feats or moments of power for him. Heck, Zeldris just gets owned, over and over again but people still high-ball him lol.

People really need to look through the same lens with Elizabeth. Because from what I'm seeing people are just heavily biased against her or plain ignorant.

Her wings as a Goddess demonstrate that she is AA tier, or at minimum, close to them in PL, there is no denying that since the author confirmed they are a representation of power... YET this fandom still claims ignorance.



Well you know... it's not the nanatsu no taizai forums if me and Sobreno are not arguing about Elizabeth at least once a week.

Meliodas is still a warrior even if he becomes too sweet lmao, he is still the captain of the SDS and the strongest besides Escanor.
He fights Ban everything, shows me Elizabeth even fighting for fun and loves fighting herself. He doesn't like to kill but fighting? Nope, he loves it and never refused a challenge.

Elizabeth is literally a pacifist whereas Meliodas still uses violence but not kill his opponent this time ( unlike his ruthless self back then. )

Nice try but fighting is the only thing that Meliodas know, he is literally the most skilled fighter ( pure skills, forget PL ) in the entire verse.

Mael is literally the Meliodas of the Goddess Clan, he was feared by the entire Demon Clan + He is the strongest with Sunshine + Named " Angel of Death " whereas Meliodas was named " greatest evil " + Have the entire Goddess Clan in his shoulder and his defeat destroys their entire mind and moral.

Zeldoris is literally the commander of the 10C besides Meliodas + he is the representant of the DK + Had Meliodas and Cusack as fighting teachers to learn how to fight + has his magic ability ( at his own level but still hax from the DK ). That is more than just: " hey, I am the son of the DK, I am a prince, look at me lmao."

Elizabeth has anything like that: Zero hype on the level of the Archangels + zero fighting teacher ( why she would have one when it is completely against her own belief lmao ) + zero gifts from one God + zero post of a commander ( like Meliodas and Zeldoris ) + not even a strong military post or reputation as a warrior lmao.

Nothing.

And you wank a character like that lmao, you are alone in that, notices that it is me vs your wank but most of people vs your wank.

I visit Reddit, Youtube, Narutoforums, comicvine, anywhere on a forum where NNT is discussed and nowhere I saw someone who wank Elizabeth like you, that show how sad it is lmao.

Fans only care about Meliodas and Escanor in the Battledome section of those forums for NNT manga, never I saw people taking someone like Elizabeth and putting her in a fight against a random character from another verse who happens to be a true fighter with great feats.

Meliodas? There is a lot about him, he is put against Natsu, Luffy, whatever MC character against him.
It is always great to read how people argue about Meliodas's strength compared to others verses but what about your character fetish?

A little research from those popular forums will make you realize that people don't view her as a fighter at all.