Discussion Estimating Characters PL

[Shadowlord123]

If you think about the statement without just accepting the image then Maels statement of comparability is referencing to Prime Meliodas, not any other weaker version.

Mael was the equal and rival of Prime Meliodas, which was the reason why he was selected by Gowther to be brainwashed into Estarossa in order to switch the power balance and force the Goddesses to activate the Coffin Of Eternal Darkness. Yet, Mael questions Gowther's choice of him even further by referencing that he wasn't the only person in his clan that was comparable to his strength, power which rivalled Prime Meliodas but he was still selected out of personal revenge. His statement basically said that Goddess Elizabeth or Ludoshel being selected instead of him would've done the same job given the comparable power they had to Prime Meliodas.

TL.DR - Mael is Prime Meliodas equal and rival but tells Gowther that he wasn't the only option and questions why he was chosen even further given other people in his clan were comparable in strength to him, cementing that the Goddess Elizabeth & Ludoshel are comparable to Prime Meliodas.

Honestly, I trust more feats than statements, and Ludo has no feats that put him on a comparable field to AM Prime Mel, who was easily able to bypass the DK's borrowed magic and clash and repel Sun Mael outside of AM. With what we've seen, it's safe to assume he's comparable to 2nd DM Mel outside of AM, but that's as far as we can go. Again, judging by how 2nd DM Mark Mel already equalled Sun Mael in the special chapter and how Ludo reacted when he saw Mel get in front of him; honestly, I can't help but think that Ludo and Eli are only comparable to 2nd DM Mel outside of AM, and probably the Holy War version. The only Goddess I see comparable to AM Prime Mel or above him outside of the SD, would be near noon to noon Mael, since Ludo already admitted that he can't even hope to match his bro in those hours.

Problem Is, that scan makes no sense via the image. Mael was selected as Gowthers target because he was Prime Meliodas rival and equal, yet the image shows 2ND DM Meliodas who is obviously inferior.

Maels statement was referencing to Prime Meliodas, I imagine the image showing 2ND DM Meliodas is because of how someone needed to be selected to replace Meliodas (whom was in that version of himself when he betrayed the clan).

Either way, I trust the logical statement of: Mael selected because he's Prime Meliodas rival = but Mael said others could've been selected because they were comparable to Meliodas and would've been able to fill the same position Mael did.

As for Ludoshels speed, given how he's more renowned more for his speed and has a God gift strictly for it and was able to pretty much stalemate Cusacks speed in a vessel whom trained Zeldris to be the fastest for swordplay in the Demon Clan, I'm more inclined to believe that Ludoshel is superior to Prime Meliodas in speed.

The statement of comparability supports this as well, to be honest.

Yet Mel was able to easily block this so-called "fastest swordplay in the Demon Clan" without the need of even using a sword and catched him with ease. The same swordplay that was able to scratch Ludo. Cusack also stalemated and even surpassed him in speed, since Ludo was the one who got injured in that clash. Honestly, you could argue that Ludo in his OG Body using Flash is probably slightly faster than Mel, but the point is, you said that he would be able to outspeed him (to blitz somebody you must be far faster than your opponent) and there is no evidence to suggest this. In fact, we don't even have evidence that Ludo would be faster in the first place.

This feat actually isn't that impressive. Elizabeth's physical strength is much weaker than any of the Four Archangels yet she was able to stalemate 2ND DM Meliodas in durability.

I'm pretty sure that's telling of what level that version of Meliodas was at.

Durability doesn't depend on physical strength, tho. While it's true that most of the characters that have a high strength stat have a high durability, that isn't always the case. Gloxinia, who had 0 strength was able to resist Mel's punches to some degree. King, who also has 0 strength has also shown decent durability during the entire series (if you want an example, he was able to resist some of 3C Mael's hits). The point is, durability doesn't always equal to strength.

Bruh, too much math.

Lmao, hope that I didn't break you . Hopefully, you got my point.

Absolutely not. OG magic is a non-factor since it has yet to be explored.

Meliodas needs the commandments to break the curse, which directly tells us he isn't anywhere close to their level, albeit he's a little threat given his magic but regardless in a full fight where the Gods are serious, he has no chance.

At the same time you have the DK himself stating that with this magic activated, Mel can fight him, which already puts him on a comparable field to them (not saying he's stronger or weaker since we still lack details). And even if that wasn't enough we have panels of him literally destroying the DK's arm just by activating this magic. Not to mention that with this magic he can't stay in the Mortal Realm. Familiar? Yeah, he has the exact same restrictions as the Gods. Yes, we do not know what this magic is, but at the same time all evidence points out that he's at least comparable to them using that magic. No suprise, given how Zel's Ominous Nebula was able to compete to some extent with a being that would have fodderized him in the first panel had not been for this magic. Ludo, who was also above him at that time, couldn't do anything to ON. Point is, a demon (and everyone in the series pretty much) is way stronger when he/she is with his/her magic rather than being without his magic.

What is Merlin without her magic? Yep, pretty much fodder.
What is King without his magic? Fodder that wouldn't even be able to beat a cat in a fight.
What is Escanor without Sun? Fodder human.
What is Zeldris without ON? A strong individual who would be instantly fodderized by the likes of The One Escanor, while with his OG he can compete against him to some extent.
What is Ludo without Flash? A strong individual, sure, but he wouldn't have nowhere near the speed he has with Flash, making him considerably weaker without it.
What is Eli without magic? Pretty much fodder with the information we have on her. You can't deny that.
What is Mel without his magic? A being capable of matching the strongest mortals, who has an incredible strength nearly unmatched in all the mortals, with top speed, durability and reflexes. You can't also deny that.

Point here is, when someones uses their true magic power or magic, they're far stronger than without them and the same applies for Mel, who was already one of the strongest besides the Gods without even activating his OG.

Also, can I ask a question? Has it been explicity stated in the manga that Mel with his OG Magic would be unable to break the curse? Because as far as I'm concerned, nowhere it has been stated. He was always afraid of that magic, which is why he chose the commandments route, but that doesn't instantly tell you that with this magic he would be unable to break the curse (and viceversa). He just activated that magic, he isn't on the Mortal Realm and he hasn't done much with it. We can't jump to conclusions and immediately say that he would be unable to break that curse, thus he's far below the Gods since there are more statements pointing out that he's on a comparable field to them, rather than statements that he would get destroyed. Anyway, we still lack information.

 

[sobreno]

Damn true, literally 90% of the characters are fodder without their magics.

And Mel was that monster without his OG godly power lol.

Damn, never thought about that perspective, it makes me respect him more.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2019 ---

can someone please explain to me how Holy War Meliodas doesn't get fodderized by Sariel + Tarmiel + Ludoshel in 30 seconds? Not only is it a 3V1 but they're all stronger than him considering he isn't in his prime, so claiming he can solo all 3 of them at once (or even 1) is downright headcannon.

They literally get scared and sweating by his presence on the stage and he was fine by taking them all and with full confidence and this is kind Mel, the not cocky version of him but the calm headed version.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

its called art inconsistencies. from the 3000 year flashback meliodas own mark does not look like a full circle. So the demon mark stuff is dependant on author's consistency of the art.

So what is your point? I’m confused about what that has to do with the fact that he had a full circle in before part 1 started.

 

[Master of the Sun]

@sobreno can you link me the interview where Nakaba talked about Mels OG magic?

 

[Ger]

also people reminder that meliodas that ludoshel faced IS NOT COMPARABLE TO 10C MELIODAS AT ALL.

the more positive emotions he gains the less powerful he gets. The fact that meliodas is no where near as that persona of 10C meliodas proves even with emotions he's stronger than ludoshel.

yes we do not know the time when meliodas fought mael FOR all we know it's near noon and made him retreat. Since ludo states hiss power CANNOT compete with mael by the time sun draws near, which means that if we go by scaling it's plausible that meliodas made late morning mael retreat.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2019 ---

also gowther states "rival" rather than "equal" it literally proves mael needs to be rivalling meliodas for power and balance which still means meliodas>him xDDD

 

[TarXan]

10C Meliodas and Holy War Meliodas are literally the same

Don’t even bring up emotions because there’s a literally side story of Meliodas having access to the Full circle 2nd Mark in the first Arc

Ludociel and Meliodas are within the same league, they’re comparable

Ludo can beat Meliodas with maximum difficulty in my opinion but would lose to Assault Mode

Before Mael got stronger someone had to keep the balance for the Goddess clan, that was obviously Ludociel

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2019 ---

also people reminder that meliodas that ludoshel faced IS NOT COMPARABLE TO 10C MELIODAS AT ALL.

the more positive emotions he gains the less powerful he gets. The fact that meliodas is no where near as that persona of 10C meliodas proves even with emotions he's stronger than ludoshel.

yes we do not know the time when meliodas fought mael FOR all we know it's near noon and made him retreat. Since ludo states hiss power CANNOT compete with mael by the time sun draws near, which means that if we go by scaling it's plausible that meliodas made late morning mael retreat.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2019 ---

also gowther states "rival" rather than "equal" it literally proves mael needs to be rivalling meliodas for power and balance which still means meliodas>him xDDD

It wasn’t near noon, it was never stated, that’s headcannon bro stop if lmfao

Where do you even come up with all this nonsense

 

[Ger]

It wasn’t near noon, it was never stated, that’s headcannon bro stop if lmfao

Where do you even come up with all this nonsense

its as bad as saying that was early morning xDDDD

so if ludo says that nearing noon mael is above and meliodas who is not even in his prime made ludo hesitant on facing him and prime meliodas faced mael and made retreat what does that tell you?

ludo is close to near noon mael and obviously cannot keep up with his power as he blatantly stated. HW meliodas=/= prime meliodas

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2019 ---

10C Meliodas and Holy War Meliodas are literally the same

they aren't

the other one has emotions and the other doesn't

if DK states that emotions makes him weaker what does that say?? it proves you wrong.

 

[TarXan]

its as bad as saying that was early morning xDDDD

so if ludo says that nearing noon mael is above and meliodas who is not even in his prime made ludo hesitant on facing him and prime meliodas faced mael and made retreat what does that tell you?

ludo is close to near noon mael and obviously cannot keep up with his power as he blatantly stated. HW meliodas=/= prime meliodas

This makes 0 sense but okay

they aren't

the other one has emotions and the other doesn't

if DK states that emotions makes him weaker what does that say?? it proves you wrong.

Commandments Era Meliodas was in love with Elizabeth secretly, they snuck out to the abandon sky palace he had positive emotions before he switched sides comepletely

 

[Ger]

Commandments Era Meliodas was in love with Elizabeth secretly, they snuck out to the abandon sky palace he had positive emotions before he switched sides comepletely

based on what?? even though meliodas in chapter 272 even implied that when he met elizabeth everything changed. The fact that DK EVEN IMPLIED that Elizabeth made him into a pimp and soft clearly makes it even more a debunk than your argument. Meliodas EVEN BEFORE meeting with elizabeth was already a leader of 10C. So nothing of your argument is in the manga itself unless you show me evidence.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

its as bad as saying that was early morning xDDDD

so if ludo says that nearing noon mael is above and meliodas who is not even in his prime made ludo hesitant on facing him and prime meliodas faced mael and made retreat what does that tell you?

ludo is close to near noon mael and obviously cannot keep up with his power as he blatantly stated. HW meliodas=/= prime meliodas

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2019 ---

they aren't

the other one has emotions and the other doesn't

if DK states that emotions makes him weaker what does that say?? it proves you wrong.

Ludo isnt close to near to noon mael
Official statement
"His powers rises along with the rising of the sun and by the time the day is around noon He becomes someone even I cant hope to be on par with"
The statement of can't keep up with him was from 7sama which is not the official translation.
Near to noon mael>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ludo
Also mael in base was considered to be the strongest archangel by sar tar and gowther
Im not taking that statement because it will be like mael's base pl is 200k+ which is bullshit.
I think his power level in base is at least 120k so even by morning he is powerful than ludo.
It would make zero sense if mael was considered the strongest only for half an hour a day

 

[Ger]

"His powers rises along with the rising of the sun and by the time the day is around noon He becomes someone even I cant hope to be on par"

i see so wanna get debunk on AN ACTUAL STATEMENT?

please stop this embarrasment. it doesn't fit you.
^^ that is from crunchyroll mind you that not 7sama. if u wanna know how MS transalted theirs i could show it to you.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

i see so wanna get debunk on AN ACTUAL STATEMENT?

please stop this embarrasment. it doesn't fit you.
^^ that is from crunchyroll mind you that not 7sama. if u wanna know how MS transalted theirs i could show it to you.

Can just tell me hoe to post pics so that I can show you the actual statement

 

[Ger]

Also mael in base was considered to be the strongest archangel by sar tar and gowther
Im not taking that statement because it will be like mael's base pl is 200k+ which is bullshit.
I think his power level in base is at least 120k so even by morning he is powerful than ludo.
It would make zero sense if mael was considered the strongest only for half an hour a day

in base? nice argument because when they implied that it was a flashback of him being one of the AAs with an armor. So spare some saltiness and actually prove your point showing evidence.

i think mael's base is 60k, so if you want to make an argument that since you wanna use headcanon about his base i could lower the number too xD.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2019 ---

Can just tell me hoe to post pics so that I can show you the actual statement

there's many buttons above your text that allows you to pic stuff such as text design or uploading video etc. if u cant do it just show the link of the manga itself.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

in base? nice argument because when they implied that it was a flashback of him being one of the AAs with an armor. So spare some saltiness and actually prove your point showing evidence.

i think mael's base is 60k, so if you want to make an argument that since you wanna use headcanon about his base i could lower the number too xD.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2019 ---

there's many buttons above your text that allows you to pic stuff such as text design or uploading video etc. if u cant do it just show the link of the manga itself.

Well Its in readsevendeadlysins site ch 253.
And yes for that base part ill say it at 120k

 

[Ger]

just show me the link on the site itself and copy paste the address link. this isn't hard

 

[Samael Morningstar]

just show me the link on the site itself and copy paste the address link. this isn't hard

Readsevendeadlysins

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2019 ---

read7deadlysins.com

 

[Ger]

alright two takes here
the site you gave me has its own translation on how they differ the context

according to MS translation which multiple sites has the translation of mangastreams' is different than the one you gave me

according to official translation WHICH crunchyroll has access to because they licensed to have it says "i couldn't reach"

so by this arbitrary translation i would trust more on the official translation which crunchyroll has the access to given by their license on the manga.

you can ask FKS on his translation for it.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

alright two takes here
the site you gave me has its own translation on how they differ the context

according to MS translation which multiple sites has the translation of mangastreams' is different than the one you gave me

according to official translation WHICH crunchyroll has access to because they licensed to have it says "i couldn't reach"

so by this arbitrary translation i would trust more on the official translation which crunchyroll has the access to given by their license on the manga.

you can ask FKS on his translation for it.

Well whether licensed or not the thing is mostly the same and means the same just they do it in their ways

 

[Ger]

Well whether licensed or not the thing is mostly the same and means the same just they do it in their ways

"couldn't reach", "cannot compete with" is different than "cannot hope to catch"

the keyword in the context is "hope" as you're arguing for the scale which you said makes him ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"
above ludo when the two translations has different connotations. So two translations is over 1 translation that uses a wank word for your argument. So no your scaling doesn't back the contextual word that you like to use so much while the other two translation negates that.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

"couldn't reach", "cannot compete with" is different than "cannot hope to catch"

the keyword in the context is "hope" as you're arguing for the scale which you said makes him ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"
above ludo when the two translations has different connotations. So two translations is over 1 translation that uses a wank word for your argument. So no your scaling doesn't back the contextual word that you like to use so much while the other two translation negates that.

Right now there's no confirmation on that too

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2019 ---

"couldn't reach", "cannot compete with" is different than "cannot hope to catch"

the keyword in the context is "hope" as you're arguing for the scale which you said makes him ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"
above ludo when the two translations has different connotations. So two translations is over 1 translation that uses a wank word for your argument. So no your scaling doesn't back the contextual word that you like to use so much while the other two translation negates that.

One is crunchyroll and which is the another one