Discussion Estimating Characters PL

[OtakuFreak]

I don't really think that considering how Elizabeth hated to fight. I feel like SG thought of Elie perhaps as a failure because of her innate pacifism...she was probably frustated IMO because Elie was so powerful but refused to fight. Unlike the DK which was so impressed by Mel and because he was willing to fight, the DK wanted him as successor and has still gone through lengths to ensure that

Mael couldn't even kill a bug.

Yet he got a grace.

Elizabeth isn't fodder, and has her own power which is useful in its own ways.

If the Supreme Goddess gave Mael a grace, why shouldn't she do the same for her own daughter?

 

[sobreno]

Mael was a pacifist like Elizabeth at one stage.

Yet he got sunshine.

The Supreme Goddess should at least have compassion to try to give her daughter some powers or protection. I don't see no reason why she wouldn't if she gave sunshine to Mael lol

Mael wanted to be like his brother, he wanted to be stronger in order to end the Holy War.

On the other hand, Elizabeth never wanted to be stronger, never have a slight interest in fight and battle lol.

I guess it makes sense to give Sunshine into the dude who want to be warrior here, even tho, he is a weakling without it.

The SD took pity upon him and give Sunshine to him, that is the memory of the SD and not the memory of the DK.

 

[Inuhanyou123]

Mael couldn't even kill a bug.

Yet he got a grace.

Elizabeth isn't fodder, and has her own power which is useful in its own ways.

If the Supreme Goddess gave Mael a grace, why shouldn't she do the same for her own daughter?

As a child you mean. But as he grew older it seems that he was able to gain favor to gain a grace(because he wanted to get stronger and showed drive to that end?). We dont know if SG ever took pity on anyone, much less an unrelated goddess like mael. If she did she would not have killed her only daughter

Elizabeth isn't fodder, and has her own power which is useful in its own ways.

Im the last person to say Elizabeth is fodder lol, i just put up her PL. I am just saying i dont think her mom gave her anything. I think that also reflects well on Elizabeth being so powerful without borrowed abilities and powers

 

[OtakuFreak]

Mael wanted to be like his brother, he wanted to be stronger in order to end the Holy War.

On the other hand, Elizabeth never wanted to be stronger, never have a slight interest in fight and battle lol.

I guess it makes sense to give Sunshine into the dude who want to be warrior here, even tho, he is a weakling without it.

The SD took pity upon him and give Sunshine to him, that is the memory of the SD and not the memory of the DK.

It doesn't matter though, giving sunshine to literally anyone else would've been beneficial.

Give it to Ludoshel.

But no she made an exception and gave it to someone who couldn't kill a bug or activate the powers of light without a grace.

What seems more likely:

-Give a weakling the most powerful grace

-Give your own flesh and blood and only daughter protection or a grace.

As a child you mean. But as he grew older it seems that he was able to gain favor to gain a grace(because he wanted to get stronger and showed drive to that end?). We dont know if SG ever took pity on anyone, much less an unrelated goddess like mael. If she did she would not have killed her only daughter



Im the last person to say Elizabeth is fodder lol, i just put up her PL. I am just saying i dont think her mom gave her anything. I think that also reflects well on Elizabeth being so powerful without borrowed abilities and powers

But she gave the grace to a young Mael.

I just don't see why she wouldn't at least try to give Elizabeth power. It's her only daughter, and last time I checked the SG seems to have some care for her: as shown by giving her a second chance through the curse and Ludoshels offer.

I still think she has divine protection considering how she stood in front of Galan and no one believed her when she was negotiating and trying to make peace.

 

[sobreno]

It doesn't matter though, giving sunshine to literally anyone else would've been beneficial.

Give it to Ludoshel.

But no she made an exception and gave it to someone who couldn't kill a bug or activate the powers of light without a grace.

What seems more likely:

-Give a weakling the most powerful grace

-Give your own flesh and blood and only daughter protection or a grace.



But she gave the grace to a young Mael.

I just don't see why she wouldn't at least try to give Elizabeth power. It's her only daughter, and last time I checked the SG seems to have some care for her: as shown by giving her a second chance through the curse and Ludoshels offer.

I still think she has divine protection considering how she stood in front of Galan and no one believed her when she was negotiating and trying to make peace.

Maybe Sunshine need to be given into a weakling? Think about it, all the Sunshine users are weakling without it.

Mael and Escanor.

It makes sense since that grace literally transform you from weakling into the strongest, that is the mechanics of the grace and Nakaba will touch upon it, I am sure now.

Stop with your speech about " own blood and flesh ".
The SD is far from being the perfect and caring Mother lmao, on the contrary even. XD

 

[OtakuFreak]

Maybe Sunshine need to be given into a weakling? Think about it, all the Sunshine users are weakling without it.

Mael and Escanor.

It makes sense since that grace literally transform you from weakling into the strongest, that is the mechanics of the grace and Nakaba will touch upon it, I am sure now.

Stop with your speech about " own blood and flesh ".
The SD is far from being the perfect and caring Mother lmao, on the contrary even. XD

Sobreno don't u dare ruin my fantasy of the Supreme Goddess being a milf who loves her daughter.

 

[sobreno]

Sobreno don't u dare ruin my fantasy of the Supreme Goddess being a milf who loves her daughter.

One question tho, you really like the SD as a character and person?

 

[OtakuFreak]

One question tho, you really like the SD as a character and person?

Meh she's hype af

And I'm hoping at least one of the Gods has parental love for their children and aren't just monsters with no hearts.

DK ain't giving me squat so SG better

 

[Inuhanyou123]

i think u might have to shelve that hope, its probably not worth betting on

 

[sobreno]

Meh she's hype af

And I'm hoping at least one of the Gods has parental love for their children and aren't just monsters with no hearts.

DK ain't giving me squat so SG better

To be honest, I doubt that she has an ounce of Parental love if she is truly the one who was in horn.

The fact that Elizabeth who is a caring person, doesn't share a thought about her tell already a lot.

 

[Shadowlord123]

@OtakuFreak I think that you're gonna like this post.

I was thinking on how disgustingly OP the SD is. We all know that she was the original wielder of Sunshine and that in a certain moment he gave this power to Mael. Sunshine gets stronger at day and it keeps increasing until noon, reaching “The One”, a form described as the invincible incarnation of power by Merlin (obviously this isn't literal, otherwise Escanor would be the strongest character in the verse).

Here's the thing, the SD after giving the Graces to the AA, can still use all the four powers with the page she appears with the DK as a proof:

https://www.mangareader.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/224/6

We can see clearly signs of the Graces in his design. For example, the waves she's riding represent Ocean, the halo in his head represents Sunshine/Flash, and the bottom of his squirt represents Tornado. So, one would say that she can still use them but obviously to a lesser degree than when she originally had the Graces with her.

Where am I going with all of this? Just imagine the SD regaining all the Four Graces again. Imagine her in “The One” state which should grant her extreme physical strenght and durability as well as devastating attacks on top of having Flash which should grant her extreme speed, Tornado that grants her a defense shield that cuts everything into pieces and can do potent attacks as well and finally Ocean which should grant her intangibility as well as the ability to create dimensions with oceans and do potent attacks. All of this, of course, in a much larger scale since she's the original wielder and far more powerful than the AA. Not to mention that as the strongest goddess, it's pretty much a given that she can use the typical abilities like Ark, Omega Ark, high Regeneration and fly at their best and strongest. She also has shown some haxed curses and blessings like the Fate Manipulation that she used on her daughter and the resistance or immunity to commandments. Btw, I found this edited image from Reddit to be pretty funny:

Honestly, when you think about it, it's disgusting how extremely overpowered she is. I wouldn't be suprised if at noon, on top with all these abilities, she could reach 1 million power level and stomp the DK (obviously this last thing is a joke not to be taken seriously, I know that they are equals, lol).

 

[Inuhanyou123]

it doesnt mean sunshine works the same with her. its a part of her power.

 

[OtakuFreak]

it doesnt mean sunshine works the same with her. its a part of her power.

True, but you can expect for sunshine to be much stronger in her possession.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 3, 2018 ---

Also, what does everybody think of Merlin's PL?

She seems pretty OP to me, but I wonder what everyone believe her PL is?

 

[Demonspeed]

So, what do you think is Mael's PL without his Grace? And Gowther Sr.'s.

@OtakuFreak I think that you're gonna like this post.

I was thinking on how disgustingly OP the SD is. We all know that she was the original wielder of Sunshine and that in a certain moment he gave this power to Mael. .

Actually, no we don't know that. I understand why people think that, but it's not been confirmed that she split her power when she gave them the Graces at all.

 

[JOA20]

So, what do you think is Mael's PL without his Grace? And Gowther Sr.'s.

Considering how Sariel and Tarmiel couldn't believe that "Estarossa" killed him despite his 60k, Mael probably had a Commandment-tier power level even at night. I don't think Mael's physical strength is much different from when he was Estarossa, what changes is the magic power, and perhaps the spirit stat. 70k total doesn't sound too unrealistic, but I don't really know (don't ask me about Sun).

Gowther Sr. should have an awful lot of magic power, since he could cast such a powerful memory manipulation magic that affected even Gods with just Gowther Jr.'s assistance. Gloxinia's magic stat (the highest recorded) was almost 50k, if I remember correctly. Gowther Sr.'s got to be higher than that at least.

 

[Kay3795]

So, what do you think is Mael's PL without his Grace? And Gowther Sr.'s.

It's quite low as illustrated by Nakaba. I suppose he's to his pears what Escanor is to his w/o Grace.

As a small boy, of small stature, he was described as being unable to hurt a fly. When he opposed the common Grey, Ludo had to save him from certain doom

Spoiler

As a man, well grown in stature, he struggled against foot soldiers the same way Top Holy Knights -- Grand Holy Knights would & he was even hurt considerably

Spoiler

(as illustrated this latest chapter, if those particular demons were to have a goddess equivalent, it would be the Greys thus I judge it to be so).

Spoiler

look at the top image, they look like the ones that almost killed him as a kid, and the ones he struggled with as an adult.

Now lets talk comparion.
Someone like Matrona ought to be more capable of devastating the ordinary soldiers in the hundreds with atmost very minuscule difficulty considering her skill as a combatant & PL (w/o Dance) being 8k, so based on the limited info we have, I judge Mael's PL w/o Grace to be less than 8k, maybe even 5k.

 

[Commanderaxe]

Bout to hit this forum with the true tier list of facts

Tier 0
Supreme Deity/Demon King

Tier 1
The One
AM Mel

Tier 1.5
Induras(feel they fit somewhere between Ludoshell and AM Mel)

Tier 2
Ludoshell
Escanor/Mael(near noon)
Zeldris(DK's power and 2nd mark)

Tier 3
Chandler
Cusack
Sariel
Tamriel


Tier 4
Estarossa
Dolor
Gloxinia
Monspiet
Derriere
Merlin
King
Diane
Gowther

Tier 5
Goddess Elizabeth(Altho Elizabeth can beat a higher tier if she can purge it)
Arthur
Galan
Grayroad
Fraudrin
Merascula
Ban(Although he's most likely around tier 3-4 by now.)

Tier 6
Elaine
Gilthunder
Wild
Hendrickson
Dreyfus
Griamore

Tier 7
Literal fodder

So i'm pretty confident on the accuracy of this list. Only thing is I would fit Ban a bit higher but I have no feats yet. I also had Elizabeth in tier 4 at first but I couldnt come up with a single way she could defeat the likes of Dolor, Gloxinia, Merlin, etc. At least as far as feats are concerned. Altho 'm still not really sure if Zeldris is truly above the masters. Well at least not by a large margin. But due to the DK magic hype i'll just keep him there. Anyway in conclusion:

 

[OtakuFreak]

Challenge accepted

AM Mel

Move down to 1.5

AM doesn't compare to ''The One''

And before you argue about it, Escanor swipping in Meliodas general direction almost killed him.

Mael or Escanor using a weapon + cruel sun or something is beyond anything AM can even comprehend.

Tier 3
Chandler
Cusack
Sariel
Tamriel

Move Goddess Elizabeth to here, minimum.

And Merlin too.

Tier 5
Goddess Elizabeth(Altho Elizabeth can beat a higher tier if she can purge it)

W H A T

How is she tier 5 when she has greater feats than people in higher tiers? ? Logic please

Plus, her wings dictate that she is AA tier minimum. Nakaba literally confirmed it when he said wings = power and Elizabeth's happen to be slightly longer/larger than Ludoshel.

I would honestly move her into 1.5 or 2 maximum.

She would've purified the Indura 1v1.

I also had Elizabeth in tier 4 at first but I couldnt come up with a single way she could defeat the likes of Dolor, Gloxinia, Merlin, etc. At least as far as feats are concerned.

Urm, I know. Maybe slap them with ark?

lol?

@Commanderaxe please don't be silly.

Merlin

Tier 3 minimum.

Her arsenal is broken and is top tier.

Raw power? Debatable.

In response to this entire list:

Spoiler: Sobreno don't open this

 

[T25]

Bout to hit this forum with the true tier list of facts

Tier 0
Supreme Deity/Demon King

Tier 1
The One
AM Mel

Tier 1.5
Induras(feel they fit somewhere between Ludoshell and AM Mel)

Tier 2
Ludoshell
Escanor/Mael(near noon)
Zeldris(DK's power and 2nd mark)

Tier 3
Chandler
Cusack
Sariel
Tamriel


Tier 4
Estarossa
Dolor
Gloxinia
Monspiet
Derriere
Merlin
King
Diane
Gowther

Tier 5
Goddess Elizabeth(Altho Elizabeth can beat a higher tier if she can purge it)
Arthur
Galan
Grayroad
Fraudrin
Merascula
Ban(Although he's most likely around tier 3-4 by now.)

Tier 6
Elaine
Gilthunder
Wild
Hendrickson
Dreyfus
Griamore

Tier 7
Literal fodder

So i'm pretty confident on the accuracy of this list. Only thing is I would fit Ban a bit higher but I have no feats yet. I also had Elizabeth in tier 4 at first but I couldnt come up with a single way she could defeat the likes of Dolor, Gloxinia, Merlin, etc. At least as far as feats are concerned. Altho 'm still not really sure if Zeldris is truly above the masters. Well at least not by a large margin. But due to the DK magic hype i'll just keep him there. Anyway in conclusion:

What feats place Merlin that high? If I may ask. And tier in terms of what? Pure prowess? Combat ability?

 

[Demonspeed]

It's quite low as illustrated by Nakaba. I suppose he's to his pears what Escanor is to his w/o Grace.

As a small boy, of small stature, he was described as being unable to hurt a fly. When he opposed the common Grey, Ludo had to save him from certain doom

Spoiler

As a man, well grown in stature, he struggled against foot soldiers the same way Top Holy Knights -- Grand Holy Knights would & he was even hurt considerably

Spoiler

(as illustrated this latest chapter, if those particular demons were to have a goddess equivalent, it would be the Greys thus I judge it to be so).

Spoiler

look at the top image, they look like the ones that almost killed him as a kid, and the ones he struggled with as an adult.

Now lets talk comparion.
Someone like Matrona ought to be more capable of devastating the ordinary soldiers in the hundreds with atmost very minuscule difficulty considering her skill as a combatant & PL (w/o Dance) being 8k, so based on the limited info we have, I judge Mael's PL w/o Grace to be less than 8k, maybe even 5k.

You are saying it's low, so what is your estimation? 2K? 5K? I don't think if PL is low since he became an Archangel.

Even before the recent reveal, I said it had to be way back in the past before he got even stronger.

If you think it's so low then he won't be a threat in the next chapter.