You have to consider the fact that Estarossa with access to "the power of Darkness stands at 60K". When we're strictly talking about "Base Mael", you can't just add his POL to the 60K PL which he previously had; because he should no longer have access to the POD. In other words, his power of light just replaced his POD, so it's possible that his powers didn't increase by much if at all.
Either his base doesn't matter (142,000+ wtf....) or it has nothing to do with his father's power. For example if he gets all 10 he will get an insane magic stat, he doesn't need strength because he's already too strong. Or Nakaba just didn't think when he introduced Estarossa's powerups.
It just doesn't make sense.
DK isn't desperate he's just happy. He adores his son. I doubt he'd even care if Mel attacked him, he wouldnt consider it a betrayal, but a brilliant display of ruthlessness befitting the new DK.
It's still stupid of him.
So now you guys will go as far as saying that Nakaba made a mistake and pretend canon dialogue is wrong because you think your Decree absorption theory is flawless? This is ridiculous
hate him) and Mael all praised her power and Ludoshel has never disregarded her power either, he's asked for her help on more than one occasion so he must too think she's capable. If you look Meliodas and Zeldris are terrifyingly powerful without their Commandments and Elizabeth at any point in time never had possession of a Grace but has constant praise from Archangels about her abilities so that should mean something right.
but @OtakuFreak should 
That theory used to be the case, but now a days nobody counts it because aside from being born as children of gods, thats the only similarity they have and heres why as of nowNot to make this thread about Elizabeth but I need someone's help that will not completely disregard everything about her character because they hate the character itself and can put their bias aside and actually look at the facts and help me gauge her power level
Here's the theory: So we know being a child of a god comes with some benefits, Meliodas for example was the leader of the Ten Commandments and even without a Commandment still reigned supreme as the strongest member, Zeldris despite being nearly featless stated that he doesn't even need his Commandment to fight agaisn't the enemies and is the only other person with potential of becoming the Demon King.So Elizabeth being a child of a god too should rightfully have a great deal of power like those two.
Sariel,Tarmiel(
I think just she has the ability to rapidly spike her power level like she did against the Indura where even just the release of her power pushed back them both and Ludoshel and her aura made 4 extra wings.That must be her full power and she held back the Indura with a upper hand until they evolved about two to three times before she began to be overwhelmed and needed the assistance of two Archangels. At that point her power level must have been above a 100,000 to do that however unlike Meliodas who can maintain his full power for as long as he wants in Assault Mode she can't its just a temporary spike that exhausts her afterwards causing her to faint. In her base she should be in the same range as the rest of the Archangels considering her wing ratio.
So conclusion
Goddess Elizabeth (8 Aura Wings-Full Power) -110,000
Goddess Elizabeth (Base) - 80,000
Elizabeth Liones (Post Memories) -80,000
Elizabeth Liones (Pre Memories) -1,875*I think*
@Demonspeed probably won't agree with any of this
People still forget that it was his 3k form turned into a baby and not his peak form
Pretty muchThat theory used to be the case, but now a days nobody counts it because aside from being born as children of gods, thats the only similarity they have and heres why as of now
1. "Mel and Zel are strong because they were born of the gods" Not anymore no. They are powerful because they had teachers and masters and devoted their lives to combat. As a baby Mel had a power level of 300, which is basically lower than part one Elizabeth who had no training like Mel and was frail. So Mel had to have trained to get this far. Elizabeth has no confirmed master, so that's why no one believes that she is high tier just because of her birth.
In that sense we could scope that Elizabeth too had a master since she wouldn't have that much control over her healing and purging skills due to her being kind and gentle.Possibly her master was why she turned out so soft
2. "Elizabeth was praised by the 4AA therefore she is strong" A problem with this argument is that the praise 9/10 times always comes after she heals. So realistically why would they be talking about her overall power when the current subject of her is healing. Not only is that not even proper english, but it doesn't make sense. If someone were to carve a cake and I say "You have masterful cutting skills" odds are im going to be praising their cooking, not their ability to fight with knives.
2.5 But onto that one time where they praised her ark for it's attack power, yeah that counts for something, but the problem is so far we have not seen her power level nor are there any other in-between goddesses. There's either fodder goddesses or super op goddesses. So it makes sense that demons would get hurt by the ark when literally the only thing to compare it to are things that are higher than fodder.
Nerobasta is a fodder goddess and her Ark failed to do damage to Derieri while a unawakened Elizabeth destroyed her hand I think her Ark definitely is special.
3. "Zeldris has no feats" Zeldris does have feats, but even if you dont want to use them Zeldris has a power level and as a result he can be power scaled. Elizabeth and Zeldris aren't in the same boat because Elizabeth doesn't have a confirmed power level. Power scaling happens in virtually every single manga and works the vast, vast majority of time.
Nakaba-sensei isn't feeding his eli fans
4. Everyone can spike their power in taizai, it's been said since part one. We just haven't seen the 4AA do anything similar to it for whatever reason. They've only used basic powers.
I don't think they can spike it any further considering Estarossa with 2 Cs with 88,000 almost got the jump on them and with 120,000 (possibly) overwhlemed them seems 90,000 is as far as they go.
5. Elizabeth by default is below Mael and Ludoshel in terms of power level. Ludoshel was said to be the strongest before Mael surpassed him, (Mael became the strongest goddess and he basically gained this title when he overtook Ludo, so by process of Elimination Ludo was the strongest) so the most that she could go for by this point is only stronger than Sariel and Tarmiel.
I'd say base she's weaker but at full power she's stronger but that spike she has is temporary and stamina consuming on her part.
But just to sum it up, Mel and Elizabeth only share the fact of bloodline heritage by this point. Every other comparison that people said was tossed out the window once Mael's backstory and the masters were intoduced.
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I thought the spell just reversed them to when they were babies. I don't think it actually made them have baby forms because Merlin notes that this is the original form of a fairy, which to me seems like she was curious to see what a fairy looked like during their infant stages. Plus if it didn't just make them babies, then why wasn't Gowther turned into a baby?
I have no idea about them being reversed to when they were babies or the spell just turned them into babies from their current form. I always thought it was the latter, but it may not be the case and i've never thought about your option. And about Gowther it's obvious he's a doll, he was the same size since he was made.
that spell might be listed as a magical item in a later databook, which could give a better idea
You cannot deny however, that Elizabeth's potential and access to ark abilities should be superior to everyone else in the clan because of her royal heritage. Meliodas and Zeldris being the strongest in the clan isn't just a coincidence, it's because their potential to train to levels of strength surpasses everyone else. Meliodas has the potential and ability to train to the level of the Demon King's strength (50%). I presume this is the same for Zeldris since he is also a child of a God. This has already been established with Elizabeth. ''Let There Be Light'' is a reference from Jesus to God in Christianity IIRC, which is the analogy for Elizabeth to the Supreme Goddess, suggesting that such a powerful ability is exclusive to her. Now who's to say summoning biblical whales, or her other secretive abilities aren't due to her heritage as well? Exclusive abilities and superior potential means she can end up being far stronger than the Four Archangels, if she wanted to be that is.
Sure, the majority of the time, the praise goes towards Elizabeth's healing skills and powers, but some situations, such as the Four Archangels asking for her assistance, like Ludoshel wanting her to combine powers with him to ''eliminate these beasts'' (Indura) suggests that her offensive capabilities are just as impressive as the other skills of her magical powers.
Yeah that makes sense.
Zeldris doesn't have feats that put him at the AA tier, or 100k range. We all know he's in that range because of his position in the clan and how the narrative has portrayed him, but with Elizabeth, she has more feats of power yet none want to accept her being strong or AA tier.
Basic powers?
Where did you get this information from? It hasn't been stated who the strongest Goddess in the clan is besides the Supreme Goddess. No one said Ludoshel, Mael, or Elizabeth are the strongest, If you want to be technical, Mael is the strongest because of sunshine, but that's the majority of the Supreme Goddesses influence and probably why he doesn't get the same title as Meliodas, because his power depends on his God, unlike Meliodas.
Potential sure, since Estarossa was shown to be Mael she has potential, but I need to see her working towards that potential which I haven't seen yet. Pacifism doesn't fly well in Taizai. In fact out of every somewhat pacifistic character we've seen, they have all be weak till they started training like they meant it. As for the let there be light refrence, that has nothing to do with God. I'm not even sure who came up with it, but it's the biggest stretch I've seen so far. Plus I'm not sure how something exclusive makes her OP. The whale was said to be ridiculous. Just because she made it doesn't make it op.
It doesn't make sense because you're comparing an attack that has a huge wind up and power up time to a basic ark attack. That's why I never liked this comparison with her. Ludoshel probably put in half the effort into his attacks as compared to Elizabeth who ended up going all out from the start. Plus attacks differ in usage and potency.
Power scaling. Zeldris could literally be featless, but since he has a confirmed power level we can scale him up. It's not my rules, this is how basically every manga goes. Even you do it when you compare Elizabeth's ark to Ludo's instead of just talking about it's power by default. The entire reason people place Elizabeth at AA tier is because of her magic when power scaled with the AA.
No, Gowther has stated that your power level rises or falls when you get serious or whatever. And I wouldn't say basic because Elizabeth's powerup during Let There Be Light was basic in and of itself. She's made wings of light since part one. The only difference is that she had full control and knowledge of her power as a goddess.
Mael was stated to be Mel's rival. Since Mel was the strongest regular demon Mael is the strongest regular goddess since he was Mel's rival. Ludoshel was the person that Mael wanted to surpass so it stands to reason that Ludo was top dog before Mael came along. This is also supported due to the fact that Gowther literally just swapped the memories of Mel as a brother with those of Ludoshel. Plus if Elizabeth was Ludo level, wouldn't it have made sense that he wanted to surpass Elizabeth since according to you the AA apparently recognize her power?
Potential is something that doesn't disappear, and I'm pretty sure Elizabeth has worked towards her potential in some areas of power, most notably in her ark usage.
Basic ark attack? Basic implies that Ludoshel applied minimal levels of magic power to each attach, which is incorrect due to the context of the fight. Sariel and Tarmiel just got one-shotted and put down, he was struggling and bleeding, and even uttering a statement about how its an impossibility for the Four Archangels to lose. He was taking the entire battle seriously and was freaking out, so I'm fairly certain he was using the full power of his light magic, especially when Sariel/Tarmiel were shocked when it had no effect. If it had no effect and it was basic, they would've mentioned how Ludoshel shouldn't hold back anymore.
But this argument ignores everything Elizabeth did. And where does it suggest that Ludoshel ''powering up'' and doing the same type of attack as Elizabeth will merit the same or better results? It's speculation at best, which isn't acceptable when arguing factually.
You're ignoring the context. The One literally one-shotted Meliodas, it almost did 100% damage to him, and that was without contact to his body. Did you not read the chapter? The One put Meliodas on the floor, the reason the slice/slap didn't actually put him to the ground, and Meliodas fell over instead is because there was no physical contact, Escanor sliced the air, did damage, and Meliodas fell over. Elizabeth slapped Meliodas, which obviously caused a physical reaction (him falling over).
Proves my point above even further.
This is really you, just jumping to conclusions.
Potential still has to be worked towards, and currently we have no scenes of Elizabeth ever training. And yeah currently let their be light is exclusive to her, but I don't see how one spell makes up for everything else.
probably for the same reason why it took 5 sins to beat demon Hendrickson, Nakaba wanted Elizabeth to shine. But if we don't go by that as to why the 4AA didn't put effort, it's because they're cocky and it's not like the fight went on that long. Ludoshel took like three hits before he began to start thinking "maybe now I should apply some effort". He never took the entire fight seriously. He literally just keeps blabbing how they are the 4AA, which is arrogance in and of itself. By the time he even talks about getting serious Elizabeth jumps in. Ludoshel didn't even think about calling Mael either, even though Mael would've eliminated the need for Elizabeth. And basic doesn't mean minimal effort, it just means compared to other powered up attacks it wont be as strong.
Doesn't make sense. Physical force is still physical force. There isn't a universal law of slap force. Both attacks push with force, the air slice doesn't just ignore force.
The problem is that AA tier would also rise as well. So if hers rises to one level the rest of the bar just also rises. Basically it's like no progress. It's the equivalent of inflation
This doesn't make sense though. If Mael isn't the strongest and you argue that Elizabeth is, then you've basically made Elizabeth stronger than Assault Mel. I mean are you changing your mind now? First she's 100K according to you, and now she's Mael level? Plus I don't see why you keep acting like the graces are only because of the Supreme deity. So what if they are, that doesn't change that they have power. By that logic I could argue Elizabeh's power only comes from here genes.
