Discussion Estimating Characters PL

MrSchmitty7

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Problem is, Escanor is in the movie and he doesn't appear until he fights Galand + Melascula. So it can't be just after part 1

HELL, the movie literally has Escanor going '' oh its late afternoon, maybe I still have some power'' referencing to sunshine weakening after noon (which isn't referenced until his fight with ''Estarossa'')
The only problem I have with it being after Mel dies is that there’s more contradictions than if it wasn’t.
King doesn’t have wings
Diane doesn’t know the dance
Gowther doesn’t have emotions
It ignores the movie’s promotional message
And Merlin’s outfit is old.

If it’s set before Mel dies then the only thing that we haven’t seen before is Escanor. As for him getting weaker as time goes away, it was mentioned before the estarossa fight by Ban. Plus even Escanor said to wait till after noon passed. It seems pretty evident to me at least
 

OtakuFreak

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King doesn’t have wings
Also, King was using the true spirit spear quite casually without any fatigue, something he couldn't do until his training with Gloxinia. So, the movie definitely isn't accurate at all.

they probably just nit-picked what powers they wanted to be in the movie even though they said it was just after part 1
 

MrSchmitty7

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Also, King was using the true spirit spear quite casually without any fatigue, something he couldn't do until his training with Gloxinia. So, the movie definitely isn't accurate at all.

they probably just nit-picked what powers they wanted to be in the movie even though they said it was just after part 1
That’s probably my guess. Although it’s weird how they left out Drole’s dance, but kept the spirit spear
 

OtakuFreak

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Although it’s weird how they left out Drole’s dance, but kept the spirit spear
Animating Diane dance would cause an economic crisis for the animators.
 

TarXan

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He’s had that mark since before the series started. It was in an extra chapter that explained how Merlin took his power
When ????

Link to the chapter, I don’t think I’ve ever read it or even heard of it
 

MrSchmitty7

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When ????

Link to the chapter, I don’t think I’ve ever read it or even heard of it
It’s burried somewhere in one of the threads, so I’ll see if it shows up, but what basically happened is that after they found Zaratras dead Elizabeth showed up and got knocked out. Meliodas got pissed and busted out the demon mark he had when he was fighting melascula in the gloom cocoon. Merlin ko’ed him because he was getting to angry then sealed his powrr
 

T25

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When ????

Link to the chapter, I don’t think I’ve ever read it or even heard of it
It’s in the nanatsu side stories thread. Scroll a few pages back from current
 

BurlapJack

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That’s probably my guess. Although it’s weird how they left out Drole’s dance, but kept the spirit spear
It's because this movie's draft completion was a looong time ago, like 2016 i think in one of nakaba's fairly recent interviews, also was the reason he got sick because he had to draw 60 pages for the movie a month
 

Ger

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Yeah but looking at it that way doesn’t make sense. I doubt he’d die and lose power from a curse that brings him back to his peak. If he has the original power mark then he has the lesser as well
its called art inconsistencies. from the 3000 year flashback meliodas own mark does not look like a full circle. So the demon mark stuff is dependant on author's consistency of the art.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
But anyways the Demon Mark Meliodas had in the movie was his Post-Revival one. Which is consistent with how the movie is using the Sins at the end of season 2 since King is able to use True Spirit Spear Chastiefol but he doesn’t have his mini wings and Diane used her fillet and roast golem thing.

So Bellion was fighting pretty evenly and having the upper hand in some parts of the fight against 60k Post-Revival Base Meliodas
actually either of this doesn't make sense.
1. ban has the capability of blocking bellions attack but ban is no where near 10k without hunter fest.
2. using demon mark art as consistent argument is not very good since meliodas also has the same mark when he about to solo 3 AAs by himself. but do we say that his power is only at 60k at base? no
3. The timeline for this movie is not consistent in the main timeline since it doesn't make sense
4. so this movie might be after galland beat them in camelot and meliodas regain his power.
 

OtakuFreak

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can someone please explain to me how Holy War Meliodas doesn't get fodderized by Sariel + Tarmiel + Ludoshel in 30 seconds? Not only is it a 3V1 but they're all stronger than him considering he isn't in his prime, so claiming he can solo all 3 of them at once (or even 1) is downright headcannon.
 

Shadowlord123

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can someone please explain to me how Holy War Meliodas doesn't get fodderized by Sariel + Tarmiel + Ludoshel in 30 seconds? Not only is it a 3V1 but they're all stronger than him considering he isn't in his prime, so claiming he can solo all 3 of them at once (or even 1) is downright headcannon.
Holy War Mel in 2nd DM was definitely around 200K since he made Ludo think twice before attacking and made him go angry by his mere presence. If this version of Mel was way below him he wouldn't have bothered and would have bitchslapped him, but that wasn't the case. Sariel and Tarmiel are way below Ludo in strength, not to mention the fact that FC would help Mel to repel most of the magical attacks coming to him. Not saying that he would beat them of course, that's reaching, but he certainly wouldn't be stomped by them.
 

Ger

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can someone please explain to me how Holy War Meliodas doesn't get fodderized by Sariel + Tarmiel + Ludoshel in 30 seconds? Not only is it a 3V1 but they're all stronger than him considering he isn't in his prime, so claiming he can solo all 3 of them at once (or even 1) is downright headcannon.
ludo is stronger? yeah tell that to his faces when he hesitated while meliodas was literally at him 3 meters apart and couldn't do shit.
 

OtakuFreak

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Holy War Mel in 2nd DM was definitely around 200K since he made Ludo think twice before attacking and made him go angry by his mere presence.
This make no sense. Ludoshel was said to be comparable to Prime Meliodas, yet a much weaker version of Meliodas is able to be on the same level as Ludoshel?

As for Ludoshel taking caution or being angry at Meliodas, that doesn't exactly mean Ludoshel's behaviour was 100% down to Meliodas strength, sure it was a part of it, but the larger picture was that Ludoshel didn't want to fight Meliodas right next to the Indura whom were about to overpower Elizabeth and kill everybody.

If this version of Mel was way below him he wouldn't have bothered and would have bitchslapped him, but that wasn't the case.
Problem is though, even though Meliodas is weaker than Ludoshel in his form at that time, he wasn't THAT weak for Ludoshel to just dispose in a few seconds by himself. He was largely concerned about the Indura, which was natural given he was easily defeated by them and Elizabeth was struggling to contain them and if they did escape from her magic, its likely they all would've died or been heavily injured.

HW Meliodas is weaker than Ludoshel, but the AA still needs to dedicate some time & effort to taking him out, which is a very bad decision with the situation Ludoshel had.

Sariel and Tarmiel are way below Ludo in strength, not to mention the fact that FC would help Mel to repel most of the magical attacks coming to him.
They're weaker, but I still think they're both superior to HW Meliodas. Plus, this was a 3V1 - FC loses a lot of its effectiveness against multiple opponents since the user cannot reflect multiple magic attacks at once from different angles (etc). Plus, Ludoshel with ''Flash'' will easily outspeed Meliodas and leave his FC unable to reflect any magic attack.

At best, this version of Meliodas can last for a few minutes, but the AA's won't really break much of a sweat unless a deadly ''revenge counter'' comes out.

Not saying that he would beat them of course, that's reaching, but he certainly wouldn't be stomped by them.
He would, this is a 3V1 and the AA's are stronger than him at his HW state.
 

Ger

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He would, this is a 3V1 and the AA's are stronger than him at his HW state.
LMAO WHAT? okay nice headcanon. bye until you prove this claim you just claimed yourself as non knowledgeable fan sorry bud.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
>sweats when meliodas came in


>made ludo hesitant where he couldn't attack him right there while being 3 meters apart from each other.

> Needs help from Sar and Tar for this criteria.


this is not even headcanon but a fact.
 

Kay3795

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It just means that there is an even bigger gap between Prime 10C Meliodas & Ludo & his comrades; afterall even their strongest champion--the incarceration of pure hatred for Demons, the Angel of Death--was forced to swallow his damn pride & retreat against 10C Prime Meliodas in an embarrassing way (in his own territory), so what is Ludo, Tar & Sar (especially Tar & Sar) to that?

OG (real power) Meliodas = God-tier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..................(2975.5 mins later).....>>>>>>> 10C Prime Meliodas (without his real power) =/>> Goddess Champion Mael >>>>> AA Chief Ludo >>> AA Sar & Tar.


In hindsight, it would be funny seeing Meliodas straight-up matching Ludo's Graced Flash speed, like Cusack did, with just his own skill & watch the subsequent meltdown of Ludo over his complete & utter powerlessness in the face of the filthy demon lol.
 
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Shadowlord123

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This make no sense. Ludoshel was said to be comparable to Prime Meliodas, yet a much weaker version of Meliodas is able to be on the same level as Ludoshel?

As for Ludoshel taking caution or being angry at Meliodas, that doesn't exactly mean Ludoshel's behaviour was 100% down to Meliodas strength, sure it was a part of it, but the larger picture was that Ludoshel didn't want to fight Meliodas right next to the Indura whom were about to overpower Elizabeth and kill everybody.
https://www.mangareader.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/282/10

Look at the version of Mel who is being compared. It's 2nd DM Mel outside of AM when he was in Stigma. Ludo has no feats to put him on a comparable level to AM Prime Meliodas. In fact, a 2nd DM Prime Mel already clashed with Sun Mael (who should be no weaker than Ludo, in fact he should be stronger) on equal terms and repelled him.

Problem is though, even though Meliodas is weaker than Ludoshel in his form at that time, he wasn't THAT weak for Ludoshel to just dispose in a few seconds by himself. He was largely concerned about the Indura, which was natural given he was easily defeated by them and Elizabeth was struggling to contain them and if they did escape from her magic, its likely they all would've died or been heavily injured.

HW Meliodas is weaker than Ludoshel, but the AA still needs to dedicate some time & effort to taking him out, which is a very bad decision with the situation Ludoshel had.
They're weaker, but I still think they're both superior to HW Meliodas. Plus, this was a 3V1 - FC loses a lot of its effectiveness against multiple opponents since the user cannot reflect multiple magic attacks at once from different angles (etc). Plus, Ludoshel with ''Flash'' will easily outspeed Meliodas and leave his FC unable to reflect any magic attack.

At best, this version of Meliodas can last for a few minutes, but the AA's won't really break much of a sweat unless a deadly ''revenge counter'' comes out.
There's no evidence to suggest that Ludoshel is above this Meliodas, I gave you the scan on which the statement is made and AM Prime Mel is nowhere to be seen, he was being compared to 2nd DM Holy War Mel. There's also no evidence to suggest that Ludo would outspeed Mel given how he wasn't even able to outspeed Cusack in the first place (in fact, Cusack surpassed him in speed on that duel since Ludo was the one who got injured). Yes, he was and still is nerfed thanks to his human vessel but my point still stands, there's no evidence to suggest that Ludo would outspeed Mel, even more so given how underwhelming Flash has been so far. Of course I don't need to say that there's even less evidence to suggest that Sar and Tar were above this Mel.

Look, even going by your power scale, 2nd DM Holy War Mel did just as well as Goddess Eli (who you consider to be comparable to him in his prime and Ludo) against the Gods, already emphasizing more that the statement made by Mael was refering to 2nd DM Holy War Mel. IMO, the scale is something like this:

Noon Mael > Late Morning Mael >= or = AM Prime Mel > 2nd DM Prime Mel = Morning Mael >= Ludoshel = Goddess Eli > Chandler (True Form) = Cusack (True Form) > Sariel = Tarmiel >= Chandler (Base) = Cusack (Base)

Not taking into account OG Magic since that as of now puts him on a comparable field to the Gods.
 

Kay3795

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Case by case based examination trumps generalities.

Meliodas was once compared to Liz & Ludo by Mael. A smart fan would look at the statement & acknowledge it. A smarter fan will use his mental faculties to examine the statement & the contributing factors propelling Mael to make such a statement at the time that he did.

The smarter fan would be the first to realise simple things like Meliodas >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zaratras even though many characters in the story once had the impression that they were equals.
 

OtakuFreak

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Look at the version of Mel who is being compared. It's 2nd DM Mel outside of AM when he was in Stigma. Ludo has no feats to put him on a comparable level to AM Prime Meliodas. In fact, a 2nd DM Prime Mel already clashed with Sun Mael (who should be no weaker than Ludo, in fact he should be stronger) on equal terms and repelled him.
If you think about the statement without just accepting the image then Maels statement of comparability is referencing to Prime Meliodas, not any other weaker version.

Mael was the equal and rival of Prime Meliodas, which was the reason why he was selected by Gowther to be brainwashed into Estarossa in order to switch the power balance and force the Goddesses to activate the Coffin Of Eternal Darkness. Yet, Mael questions Gowther's choice of him even further by referencing that he wasn't the only person in his clan that was comparable to his strength, power which rivalled Prime Meliodas but he was still selected out of personal revenge. His statement basically said that Goddess Elizabeth or Ludoshel being selected instead of him would've done the same job given the comparable power they had to Prime Meliodas.

TL.DR - Mael is Prime Meliodas equal and rival but tells Gowther that he wasn't the only option and questions why he was chosen even further given other people in his clan were comparable in strength to him, cementing that the Goddess Elizabeth & Ludoshel are comparable to Prime Meliodas.

There's no evidence to suggest that Ludoshel is above this Meliodas, I gave you the scan on which the statement is made and AM Prime Mel is nowhere to be seen, he was being compared to 2nd DM Holy War Mel. There's also no evidence to suggest that Ludo would outspeed Mel given how he wasn't even able to outspeed Cusack in the first place (in fact, Cusack surpassed him in speed on that duel since Ludo was the one who got injured). Yes, he was and still is nerfed thanks to his human vessel but my point still stands, there's no evidence to suggest that Ludo would outspeed Mel, even more so given how underwhelming Flash has been so far. Of course I don't need to say that there's even less evidence to suggest that Sar and Tar were above this Mel.
Problem Is, that scan makes no sense via the image. Mael was selected as Gowthers target because he was Prime Meliodas rival and equal, yet the image shows 2ND DM Meliodas who is obviously inferior.

Maels statement was referencing to Prime Meliodas, I imagine the image showing 2ND DM Meliodas is because of how someone needed to be selected to replace Meliodas (whom was in that version of himself when he betrayed the clan).

Either way, I trust the logical statement of: Mael selected because he's Prime Meliodas rival = but Mael said others could've been selected because they were comparable to Meliodas and would've been able to fill the same position Mael did.

As for Ludoshels speed, given how he's more renowned more for his speed and has a God gift strictly for it and was able to pretty much stalemate Cusacks speed in a vessel whom trained Zeldris to be the fastest for swordplay in the Demon Clan, I'm more inclined to believe that Ludoshel is superior to Prime Meliodas in speed.

The statement of comparability supports this as well, to be honest.

Look, even going by your power scale, 2nd DM Holy War Mel did just as well as Goddess Eli (who you consider to be comparable to him in his prime and Ludo) against the Gods, already emphasizing more that the statement made by Mael was refering to 2nd DM Holy War Mel. IMO, the scale is something like this:
This feat actually isn't that impressive. Elizabeth's physical strength is much weaker than any of the Four Archangels yet she was able to stalemate 2ND DM Meliodas in durability.

I'm pretty sure that's telling of what level that version of Meliodas was at.

Noon Mael > Late Morning Mael >= or = AM Prime Mel > 2nd DM Prime Mel = Morning Mael >= Ludoshel = Goddess Eli > Chandler (True Form) = Cusack (True Form) > Sariel = Tarmiel >= Chandler (Base) = Cusack (Base)
Bruh, too much math.

Not taking into account OG Magic since that as of now puts him on a comparable field to the Gods.
Absolutely not. OG magic is a non-factor since it has yet to be explored.

Meliodas needs the commandments to break the curse, which directly tells us he isn't anywhere close to their level, albeit he's a little threat given his magic but regardless in a full fight where the Gods are serious, he has no chance.
 
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