Discussion Estimating Characters PL

[OtakuFreak]

Merlin's comment simply regards to Elizabeth awakening her original abilities, or as (MrSchmitty said) ''ark'' and her full access to them, something which without her memories she wasn't able to do on command, it has nothing to do with raw strength, especially when we already know a Goddess inside a human body is much weaker.

If that isn't enough Elizabeth even admitted herself that her power isn't what it used to be, referencing to her power being superior as a Goddess.

Good, so you admit that demeanour aren't indicators of whether someone is stronger or not and can be volaitle. Ladies and gentlemen we finally got an answer!!!

No, to @Ger :

''Demeanour'' mean something if they portray Meliodas or any other demon in a positive light (i.e as stronger, superior) but if this is turned into making a Goddess look good, then it doesn't mean anything.

Ludoshel showing caution to Meliodas in a tight situation must mean he's inferior! But Elizabeth not showing any in front of Meliodas must mean she's retarded and just stupid.

god i lose brain cells reading these arguments sometimes. At the end of the day, caution/hesitation is a weak argument in trying to prove someone as stronger/weaker to someone else since there's a lot of factors going into it, than just ''oh shit im weaker''

 

[MrSchmitty7]

and how does this disprove the fact ludo is weaker than meliodas based off his expression towards his presence?

I

Never

Said

Ludo

Was

Stronger

Or

Weaker

Than

Mel

Once

I've been talking about him related to Elizabeth the entire time

Also Elizabeth's curse
224: The only thing stated about it is that it returns her goddess abilities and her memories. Never said it puts her to her peak
Merlin's comments: Just say that she will get her original as in (first) power back. Never says peak. Not that Merlin matters, you never listen to what she says anyway
Elizabeth when trying to stop mel: "In my current body I cant do it" Literally meaning that current form is limited.

 

[Ger]

Or

Weaker

Than

Mel

Once

alright what makes him NOT weaker than meliodas?

 

[MrSchmitty7]

alright what makes him NOT weaker than meliodas?

Why are you asking me this? I just wanted to talk about Elizabeth and Ludo. I never intended to talk about Ludo v. Mel. I don't know Stigma Mel's power. He never showed any solid feats and he's got more power level variations then any character in this manga.

 

[Ger]

Merlin's comment simply regards to Elizabeth awakening her original abilities, or as (MrSchmitty said) ''ark'' and her full access to them, something which without her memories she wasn't able to do on command, it has nothing to do with raw strength, especially when we already know a Goddess inside a human body is much weaker.

If that isn't enough Elizabeth even admitted herself that her power isn't what it used to be, referencing to her power being superior as a Goddess.

oh yeah because elizabeth prior to awakening has been using ark ever since.

nice argument buddy.

So like i said if meliodas were to be put in the same context and has the same dialogue it would obviously refer to his old power. The fact that merlin knows elizabeth before she stopped her own time so why would it be referring to "ark"?

Ark is not her original power but a just casual ability for goddess especially higher ranks.

 

[OtakuFreak]

oh yeah because elizabeth prior to awakening has been using ark ever since.

But did she ever do it on command, with perfect control or with the strength she once had as a Goddess who rivalled even the Four Archangels and even surpassed them in magical power? No.

So like i said if meliodas were to be put in the same context and has the same dialogue it would obviously refer to his old power. The fact that merlin knows elizabeth before she stopped her own time so why would it be referring to "ark"?

Because that's Elizabeth's powers?

Ark is not her original power but a just casual ability for goddess especially higher ranks.

Urm, what? It doesn't matter if ''ark'' is a shared power among the Goddesses, it still constitutes as Elizabeth's original power. By this argument, Meliodas retrieving his lost power from Merlin doesn't constitute as a portion of his original power, because darkness itself is shared among his entire clan, right?

 

[Ger]

Because that's Elizabeth's powers?

so does goddesses??
how is she (merlin) gonna implement "original powers" instead of "ark" when elizabeth has been using the ability ever since before she awakened.
original power =/= original technique. This can be argued of how merlin felt her magic power when she was a goddess.

But did she ever do it on command, with perfect control or with the strength she once had as a Goddess who rivalled even the Four Archangels and even surpassed them in magical power? No.

having perfect CONTROL does not determine "awakening to your original power" it is a trait of goddess if they are good at using ark which Sar and Tar has.
But why would merlin only refer to ark? Merlin has the capability of experiencing elizabeth before she died.

Urm, what? It doesn't matter if ''ark'' is a shared power among the Goddesses, it still constitutes as Elizabeth's original power. By this argument, Meliodas retrieving his lost power from Merlin doesn't constitute as a portion of his original power, because darkness itself is shared among his entire clan, right?

yes and ark is DEPENDANT on its effectiveness if someone has STRONG MAGIC. WHICH SHOWS THIS ARGUMENT THAT MERLIN WAS POINTING OUT TO HER FORMER SELF'S POWER WHICH WAS 3000 YEARS AGO.

 

[Anti mel fanboysim]

Elizabeth stood? did they intend to fight? do we know? the fact you're going into hypothesis realm clearly suggest your arguments own weakness.

The logic is not my premise no? the fact i reiterated what my premise was which "ludo despite wanting to kill indura's in the situation did not hold his own guard when meliodas appeared why is that?" The fact you didn't even address the premise and you're going off the tangent and nitpick the argument about "scared" argument will not change the premise at all.

Actually being scared and being hesitant to someone's presence PROVES a scaling in certain extent. Elizabeth WAS scared when she realized mael absorbed the 4 commandments so did everyone else but does that mean they are weaker individually compared to mael? obviously, they felt his presence being so terrifying they wanted to get out of the place.

As for ludo's case when meliodas appeared he has this hesitation of not attacking meliodas right away which you have not rebuttal despite him being in a fight situation. It's not like ludo is in the poisition where he's facing 3 opponents which he's only facing melioda at that moment but still needed help.

Zeldris isn't afraid of someone's power that he himself based on feat had 51/49 power struggle against. As for meliodas against escanor the fact that zeldris already debunks that argument by saying his demeanor in a fight is always him toying around and not being serious in a bit is literally the conclusion of that fight with his ability. But does that mean he's stronger than escanor? no because he wasn't at his peak.

Yeah that proves the point again lol why would he BE SO HESITANT facing meliodas when he was in the situation of fighting induras before meliodas came? if he's that confident in his ability and meliodas being weakened by emotions then why did he hesitate?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 6, 2019 ---

Yeah it matters because you always nitpick that holy war meliodas is the same leader of 10C meliodas. Which i further broke it down for you and why his clothing is different and had emotions. The main factor in differentiating meliodas is by "emotions". Do you think emotions weakens meliodas yes or no?

leading the

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 6, 2019 ---

where? they know mael being the strongest with his grace not with his base you need to prove that claim. If ludo states mael can only surpass him if noon is near then you just proved your argument being debunked.

Elizabeth stood? did they intend to fight? do we know? the fact you're going into hypothesis realm clearly suggest your arguments own weakness.

The logic is not my premise no? the fact i reiterated what my premise was which "ludo despite wanting to kill indura's in the situation did not hold his own guard when meliodas appeared why is that?" The fact you didn't even address the premise and you're going off the tangent and nitpick the argument about "scared" argument will not change the premise at all.

Actually being scared and being hesitant to someone's presence PROVES a scaling in certain extent. Elizabeth WAS scared when she realized mael absorbed the 4 commandments so did everyone else but does that mean they are weaker individually compared to mael? obviously, they felt his presence being so terrifying they wanted to get out of the place.

As for ludo's case when meliodas appeared he has this hesitation of not attacking meliodas right away which you have not rebuttal despite him being in a fight situation. It's not like ludo is in the poisition where he's facing 3 opponents which he's only facing melioda at that moment but still needed help.

Zeldris isn't afraid of someone's power that he himself based on feat had 51/49 power struggle against. As for meliodas against escanor the fact that zeldris already debunks that argument by saying his demeanor in a fight is always him toying around and not being serious in a bit is literally the conclusion of that fight with his ability. But does that mean he's stronger than escanor? no because he wasn't at his peak.

Yeah that proves the point again lol why would he BE SO HESITANT facing meliodas when he was in the situation of fighting induras before meliodas came? if he's that confident in his ability and meliodas being weakened by emotions then why did he hesitate?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 6, 2019 ---

Yeah it matters because you always nitpick that holy war meliodas is the same leader of 10C meliodas. Which i further broke it down for you and why his clothing is different and had emotions. The main factor in differentiating meliodas is by "emotions". Do you think emotions weakens meliodas yes or no?

leading the commandments doesn't matter LMAO. If meliodas regains emotions towards elizabeth he still gets weaker comapre to his prime self.

Yeah when you just pointed an argument that meliodas has an affection towards elizabeth which proves he gets weaker in power. Zeldris states about meliodas being cold hearted and emotionless, the fact zeldris knows more about meliodas WAY BEFORE ELIZABETH KNOWING ABOUT HIM clearly proves the point of mine.



when did i say he could by pass the Ruler? The Ruler and the magic he borrowed is far different but like i stated before where has it been mentioned the limits of its effectiveness on nullifyingg magical attacks??

his magical stats =/= DKs magic

so prove that those two concepts are correlated to another. you're being a hypocrite at this point for saying to me i do headcanons when you're the one is making it.

DKs real magic inverts ANYTHING to regen and fortification right? the only statement that we got from zeldris own magic is nullifying it. The fact you're going with the argument "his nerfed magic isn't impressive since its not comparable to DKs, so Meliodas bypassing it isn't any impressive" WHAT CHARACTER has bypassed the nerfed version? so far i don't the limits of its effectiveness on its mechanics.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 6, 2019 ---

where? they know mael being the strongest with his grace not with his base you need to prove that claim. If ludo states mael can only surpass him if noon is near then you just proved your argument being debunked.

1- ludo didnt say that
2- Actually no one said that he was the strongest because of the grace + they were saying he can control the 3 commandments cuz he is the strongest AA and they didnt mention the grace

 

[T25]

1- ludo didnt say that
2- Actually no one said that he was the strongest because of the grace + they were saying he can control the 3 commandments cuz he is the strongest AA and they didnt mention the grace

1. Ludo said he couldn’t hope to match mael near noon. The implication was that it took some time for mark to comprehensively surpass ludo
2. They actually did mention it but they said “even though he no longer has the grace” even so mael has always been referred to as “mael of sun” his acclaim and fame had been garnered from his body count as the one who possessed the grace of sun. There is enough to speculate just how much of an assistance “sun” was for him and from here it looks like it was enormous.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2019 ---

so does goddesses??
how is she (merlin) gonna implement "original powers" instead of "ark" when elizabeth has been using the ability ever since before she awakened.
original power =/= original technique. This can be argued of how merlin felt her magic power when she was a goddess.



having perfect CONTROL does not determine "awakening to your original power" it is a trait of goddess if they are good at using ark which Sar and Tar has.
But why would merlin only refer to ark? Merlin has the capability of experiencing elizabeth before she died.

yes and ark is DEPENDANT on its effectiveness if someone has STRONG MAGIC. WHICH SHOWS THIS ARGUMENT THAT MERLIN WAS POINTING OUT TO HER FORMER SELF'S POWER WHICH WAS 3000 YEARS AGO.

Do you really think that the current Eli is as powerful and capable as she was in the past?

 

[Samael Morningstar]

1. Ludo said he couldn’t hope to match mael near noon. The implication was that it took some time for mark to comprehensively surpass ludo
2. They actually did mention it but they said “even though he no longer has the grace” even so mael has always been referred to as “mael of sun” his acclaim and fame had been garnered from his body count as the one who possessed the grace of sun. There is enough to speculate just how much of an assistance “sun” was for him and from here it looks like it was enormous.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2019 ---

Do you really think that the current Eli is as powerful and capable as she was in the past?

If manga in future shows base mael the strongest will you accept that fact......
Still bro Im with you mael is not the strongest in base but yeah he maybe on the same level as ludo

 

[T25]

If manga in future shows base mael the strongest will you accept that fact......
Still bro Im with you mael is not the strongest in base but yeah he maybe on the same level as ludo

Oh I don’t reject that possibility at all. I do have my own conclusion but I’m not one that so easily calls “bs.” So yea I’d have little problem with it. Wait. Strongest what?

 

[Samael Morningstar]

Oh I don’t reject that possibility at all. I do have my own conclusion but I’m not one that so easily calls “bs.” So yea I’d have little problem with it. Wait. Strongest what?

I meant mael withput sunshine is stronger than the 4AA's .
Dont I wont take that fact till the manga shows it by feats or statements

 

[Ger]

Do you really think that the current Eli is as powerful and capable as she was in the past?

Hence why Merlin states about her awakening her original/ true power.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2019 ---

I meant mael withput sunshine is stronger than the 4AA's .
Dont I wont take that fact till the manga shows it by feats or statements

Yeah cuz ludo debunked that notion and said hes only stronger than him if noon is near.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2019 ---

I like this mael wank because it pleases me to debunk them. So please keep it factually based analytics.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2019 ---

2- Actually no one said that he was the strongest because of the grace + they were saying he can control the 3 commandments cuz he is the strongest AA and they didnt mention the grace

He was considered the strongest AA bevause of his power grace. Without that he isnt even close to being stronger than ludo.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2019 ---

Ludo said he couldn’t hope to match mael near noon. The implication was that it took some time for mark to comprehensively surpass ludo

People who likes to wank and I'm not saying you're one of them but including you in this session that u shouldnt ues the term "hope" as it leads to misinformation. 2 different translation doesnt use the same word as "hope".

 

[T25]

I meant mael withput sunshine is stronger than the 4AA's .
Dont I wont take that fact till the manga shows it by feats or statements

Ah I see. I find it pretty debatable given the circumstances but there are multiple possibilities. Just gotta wait.

Hence why Merlin states about her awakening her original/ true power

Yet you argued in favor of Mel not being at the level he was in the past despite this same Merlin saying he was “stronger than he was back then.” You were willing to extrapolate this conclusion based on what you were provided yet do not see that Eli is in hardly any different a position. At least Mel has the body he was born with. When you take Merlin’s comment on Eli to mean something but choose to ignore a comment by Eli herself, of all people, about Eli herself that contradicts this interpretation of yours, how solid is your foundation? Merlin knows elis power situation better than.....Eli herself?

 

[Ger]

Yet you argued in favor of Mel not being at the level he was in the past despite this same Merlin saying he was “stronger than he was back then.” You were willing to extrapolate this conclusion based on what you were provided yet do not see that Eli is in hardly any different a position. At least Mel has the body he was born with.

Was there any reason to doubt this statement? Do I really have to evaluate that Merlin has been around ever since meliodas and Elizabeth got together. So what is the doubtfulness of her observation throughout those historical events??
If you're referring to chapter 233 to early chapter 242 then yes obviously meliodas HAS NOT SHOWN to be at his peak in those narration due to AGAIN merlins observation ever since 3000 years ago.
What disproves what I claim?? Nothing. This is based on factual not possibilities. Even then merlins statement involves around negative energy from meliodas was going stronger. Not only that Elizabeth also implying that she wants to prevents meliodas from returning to his old self.

 

[T25]

Was there any reason to doubt this statement? Do I really have to evaluate that Merlin has been around ever since meliodas and Elizabeth got together. So what is the doubtfulness of her observation throughout those historical events??
If you're referring to chapter 233 to early chapter 242 then yes obviously meliodas HAS NOT SHOWN to be at his peak in those narration due to AGAIN merlins observation ever since 3000 years ago.
What disproves what I claim?? Nothing. This is based on factual not possibilities. Even then merlins statement involves around negative energy from meliodas was going stronger. Not only that Elizabeth also implying that she wants to prevents meliodas from returning to his old self.

I already said it but you choose not to doubt your interpretation of Merlin’s statement. But by doing that you have rendered Eli’s statement about herself meaningless.....Let’s see how this turns out

 

[Samael Morningstar]

Hence why Merlin states about her awakening her original/ true power.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2019 ---

Yeah cuz ludo debunked that notion and said hes only stronger than him if noon is near.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2019 ---

I like this mael wank because it pleases me to debunk them. So please keep it factually based analytics.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2019 ---

He was considered the strongest AA bevause of his power grace. Without that he isnt even close to being stronger than ludo.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2019 ---

People who likes to wank and I'm not saying you're one of them but including you in this session that u shouldnt ues the term "hope" as it leads to misinformation. 2 different translation doesnt use the same word as "hope".

Wow seems you didnt see what I previously said I said I dont take that statement that mael is strongest without his grace until its shown in the manga .

 

[Ger]

I already said it but you choose not to doubt your interpretation of Merlin’s statement. But by doing that you have rendered Eli’s statement about herself meaningless.....Let’s see how this turns out

Then my facts is still here and implemented by nakaba himself. So theres no reason to address what I proved which character ARE FULLY knowledge on about certain characters strength.

Okay what is reason to doubt her statement? You cant doubt because of your feelings, you have to look at characters experience to one another.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2019 ---

Wow seems you didnt see what I previously said I said I dont take that statement that mael is strongest without his grace until its shown in the manga .
And I really enjoy how a dog keeps barking I.E you

And u still mentions it after I debunked that statement being NOT REFERRING TO MAEL AT HIS BASE because THEY KNEW he relies on his grace.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

Going by the inconsistency of nakaba and the series on the verge of its ending everything will be rushed and many things wont be answered properly

 

[OtakuFreak]

Merlin's statement just refers to Elizabeth awakening her powers and doesn't mean she has her full strength available.

If Elizabeth is equal to her prime as a Goddess, then please explain to me:

-Why does Elizabeth's statement of saying her power isn't what it used to be (referencing the Goddesss to human curse) get ignored?

-If Elizabeth is at her Goddess level, why did Merlin refuse to allow her to calm down Meliodas in a rampage? Goddess Elizabeth is 200,000+ and AM was only 142,000. Why did Merlin stop her and risk Escanors life? Oh yes, because Elizabeth wasn't at her original strength and Escanor was stronger despite being fodder for Mel.

-Why did Merlin hesitate to place Elizabeth in a perfect cube with Meliodas when they've both met on a battlefield and she was the one to change him from a merciless killer to a sarcastic lover?

-Why did Meliodas demand for Elizabeth to not leave his side under any condition if she had her original strength? Which coincidentally enough allows her to fight the top tier demons and be fully capable of defending herself. Why the over protection if she was stronger than all of them individually?

-Apparently Chandler's cheeks are enough to make Elizabeth almost go unconscious despite her never doing such a thing against the Gods.

Elizabeth's statement about her own power and everyone over protective with her easily means she isn't at her level that she was as a full fledged Goddess. None of this gets removed by a vague statement from Merlin, stop it.