Well if he broke the Raiment with sheer power only as you say, then I am over-estimating the strength of Invel's Raiment.
Gray was able to remold the ice, and use it's power. So if he's able to do that, then I don't see any fault in thinking his slayer advantage assisted in breaking the ice.
And of course I did acknowledge attack power in my post...
Perhaps and/or should be more appropriate so people don't think I'm downplaying Gray...
Oh, well it seems that we have different interpretations of the fight then. My interpretation was that Gray broke Invel's armor and then remolded the ice which was later used to defeat Invel. If you thought Gray remolded the ice beforehand and used it to break through Invel's armor, then I would agree that is an advantage. But looking back at the panel, it seems to me that Gray remolded the ice afterwards.
Why can't a half-dragonised Natsu be stronger than H-Acnologia? The physiological difference between dragons and humans is enough, in my opinion, that DF Natsu could bridge the gap to human Acnologia.
Zeref needs FH + Larcade because he's not a dragon slayer. It's obvious that he'd have to go another route.
I'm just having a guess of DF Natsu's level and I won't be bothered at all if I'm wrong. But his FDKM is packing more power than God Serena... the only reason Serena can win that match is due to element advantage of his own...
The gap in physiological difference may decrease but Acnologia's magic power is still far beyond Natsu. This dragon was the same dragon who defeated Igneel, who I think is vastly superior to Natsu at this point in time.
Yeah, but the physical advantages and power boost of a dragon slayer's Dragon Force won't bridge the gap of an entire empire, let alone the Spriggan 12... Even in a dragonized form, Natsu wouldn't have enough magic power to match the Black Dragon of the Apocalypse.
I am fairly confident that the movie promotional poster is what Natsu's dragon force will look like next time we see it, because the image was advertised as dragon force. お待たせしました. 超"ドラゴンフォ一ス"級のよ知らせがあります translates to "Sorry to keep you waiting. This is a super 'dragon force' class announcement".
I've always been an advocate that Dragon Force is what dragonizes a dragon slayer, and Acnologia's dragon force is his dragon form. I expect a fully dragonized Natsu to be on the same level as Igneel. A half dragonized version of Natsu would scale to half that power. I don't think Natsu is going to end up using dragon force against August or anyone else either. He might not be capable of entering dragon force on his own right now. When we do see it, however, I expect him to be using it against Acnologia in the final fight. This will probably be Natsu's strongest form.
hahahahah half-Dragonized Natsu is stronger than Acnologia human form? is that joke or something ? (how many dragons has Natsu killed compared to Acnologia???) so just asking who is more exprienced Natsu or 400 years old acnologia who has killed thousand dragons? Natsu is fodder to acnologia... not even contest
So many people seem to know everything... Without even overthinking everything...
"overcome the bridge" was what was said.
A human Acnologia can be affected by normal human magic. Natsu in dragonized form is a DRAGON. Not just some Dragon but actually the one who was raised by the KING OF FIRE DRAGONS. In full dragonification u OBVISOUSLY DO NOT KNOW HOW STRONG HE GETS.
Goku as ssj3 also couldn't have been considered a warmup for Beerus but in ssjg a FORM wich he aquired on the SAME DAY he had Beerus use 70% of his goddamn power. And as ssj3 he hadn't have him use 1%.... So please spare me with meaningless words... This is FT. The world of the unimaginable powerups.
Anything can happen. How can u be so sure that dragonizing doesn't make him, like, a million times stronger?
But srsly...
Overcoming the bridge...
Let me make an example...
I am at village a and go into direction of the castle... On my way... In a forest i have to overcome a bridge... A VERY DANGEROUS ONE... And I do it. The castle is in sight.... But there are guards and shit... Overcoming the bridge doesn't mean shit.
The same with Natsu and Acno. I did NOT say he IS stronger! BUT the POSSIBILITY exists. Even if it's as small as it can be... It still exists. U can't say something for sure without evidences... And I BELIEVE that if in DF Natsu stomps Irene and August...
I am fairly confident that the movie promotional poster is what Natsu's dragon force will look like next time we see it, because the image was advertised as dragon force. お待たせしました. 超"ドラゴンフォ一ス"級のよ知らせがあります translates to "Sorry to keep you waiting. This is a super 'dragon force' class announcement".
I've always been an advocate that Dragon Force is what dragonizes a dragon slayer, and Acnologia's dragon force is his dragon form. I expect a fully dragonized Natsu to be on the same level as Igneel. A half dragonized version of Natsu would scale to half that power. I don't think Natsu is going to end up using dragon force against August or anyone else either. He might not be capable of entering dragon force on his own right now. When we do see it, however, I expect him to be using it against Acnologia in the final fight. This will probably be Natsu's strongest form.
Highly doubt that Natsu can fully dragonize. And even if he can, he won't be on the level of Igneel. It wouldn't make sense for Natsu to become as strong as the King of Fire Dragons when he can't even solo a top tier Spriggan 12. If Natsu's DF is truly this strong, somebody should just give Natsu etherion and he will be able to win in a 1v12 battle against the Spriggans. I don't see this happening quite yet.
Especially since this arc isn't even close to the end of Fairy Tail... So I think there is quite a lot of time for improvement.
Oh, well it seems that we have different interpretations of the fight then. My interpretation was that Gray broke Invel's armor and then remolded the ice which was later used to defeat Invel. If you thought Gray remolded the ice beforehand and used it to break through Invel's armor, then I would agree that is an advantage. But looking back at the panel, it seems to me that Gray remolded the ice afterwards.
The gap in physiological difference may decrease but Acnologia's magic power is still far beyond Natsu. This dragon was the same dragon who defeated Igneel, who I think is vastly superior to Natsu at this point in time.
Yeah, but the physical advantages and power boost of a dragon slayer's Dragon Force won't bridge the gap of an entire empire, let alone the Spriggan 12... Even in a dragonized form, Natsu wouldn't have enough magic power to match the Black Dragon of the Apocalypse.
THAT IS THE POINT!
"The Black Dragon of Apocalypse"
But wait! WHO is talking about his Dragon Form? It's clear that Natsu won't ever get Acno Dragom form level in near future lol...
As a HUMAN Acno is the black human of Apocalypse? Lol that sounds so racist.. Sry for the black users >.<
But well yeah u get what i'm sayin i hope...
Acno as a human is a human. A weaker being then a DRAGON. Therein ließ the difference... Nobody says Natsu beats Dragon Acno..
Highly doubt that Natsu can fully dragonize. And even if he can, he won't be on the level of Igneel. It wouldn't make sense for Natsu to become as strong as the King of Fire Dragons when he can't even solo a top tier Spriggan 12. If Natsu's DF is truly this strong, somebody should just give Natsu etherion and he will be able to win in a 1v12 battle against the Spriggans. I don't see this happening quite yet.
Especially since this arc isn't even close to the end of Fairy Tail... So I think there is quite a lot of time for improvement.
However, I fully expect him to be that strong by the end of the series. I can see Natsu getting another powerup like being empowered by Fairy Heart or even something as simple as power of feelings pushing him beyond his limits. Now, if you don't believe this to be the last arc of Fairy Tail, the facedown with Acnologia might come at a later date rather than sooner. I personally think this arc will be the last, and will wrap up sometime in July 2017.
THAT IS THE POINT!
"The Black Dragon of Apocalypse"
But wait! WHO is talking about his Dragon Form? It's clear that Natsu won't ever get Acno Dragom form level in near future lol...
As a HUMAN Acno is the black human of Apocalypse? Lol that sounds so racist.. Sry for the black users >.<
But well yeah u get what i'm sayin i hope...
Acno as a human is a human. A weaker being then a DRAGON. Therein ließ the difference... Nobody says Natsu beats Dragon Acno..
I was just referring to Acnologia. His title shows exactly how fearsome he is even when he isn't using his dragon form. Besides, he technically is still the Black Dragon of the Apocalypse when he is in his human form...
To be honest, it doesn't really matter because I know Natsu cannot beat Acnologia as of the current arc.
However, I fully expect him to be that strong by the end of the series. I can see Natsu getting another powerup like being empowered by Fairy Heart or even something as simple as power of feelings pushing him beyond his limits. Now, if you don't believe this to be the last arc of Fairy Tail, the facedown with Acnologia might come at a later date rather than sooner. I personally think this arc will be the last, and will wrap up sometime in July 2017.
I don't expect him to be as strong as Acnologia anytime soon. Maybe at the end of the series but that is still quite a long time. Also, if Acnologia is not taken down by a group of dragon slayers, I will be shocked. Hiro Mashima shouldn't introduce other dragon slayers if he isn't going to use them. However, I do think Natsu will get the final hit as he is the main character.
As for the last arc, Hiro Mashima said that there is still more that he wants to write about for Fairy Tail. So I don't believe it will end soon, although I think this is one of the major turning points in the series. There still has to be more arcs in order for this arc to be the "climax".
@Woodenstool
U comparin past Gildarts to present Natsu?
Wich past Gildarts if i might ask? Oh wait no.
I really don't think that matters lol. Natsu as he is now stomps the past Gildarts. Gildarts how he is now stomps Natsu. (Or no... But idk how strong he is with BDKM+ DF so i can't say anything)
Aaahh... Gildarts beats anyone in the guild for sure..
I'm just curious if or what improvement Natsu get's next haha
Laxus is badass. That's the reason he stomps anyone... Except Acno who is badasser
"Natsu nearly burned down the GMG arena just from his magic aura which is more impressive than Gildarts creating cracks in the ground of a small town."
He made cracks after he tripped. He wasn't attempting to do anything. I guarantee Natsu was trying to show off. Gildarts accidentally did that.
"He easily ran through hundreds of monsters within seconds destroying them which is more impressive than Gildarts hitting 13 fodder."
If you think Gildarts is incapable of replicating that feat, you are wrong. They may have been fodder, but it showcased his speed. Gildarts has casual mountain busting punches. If you combine those two, it means that Gildarts can throw out several mountain busting punches instantaneously. I'm also going to throw out the fact that even if Natsu is fast(people keep saying this, but I don't recall anything feats that showcase exceptional speed), Gildarts is way faster. The KotSH feat should tell you that.
"Natsu destroyed the TOH and GOW"
Gildarts casually destroyed a mountain so I don't know how that helps you there.
"First off Natsu's durability is way to amazing to ever get stomped by Gildarts and Natsu is way to powerful and fast to ever get speedblitz."
His durability may be high, but I do not think that it has improved all too much during the time skip. We haven't seen anything showcasing an increase in durability, only strength. Natsu was beaten very badly in a fight against Gildarts where he wasn't even moving. Natsu isn't capable of reacting to "Poof!" speed. KotSH feat showcases that Natsu is in fact, slower than Gildarts. He didn't even move before Gildarts was already several feet away and attacking.
"When Gildarts actually fought someone who wasn't fodder he had a high difficulty battle against Bluenote where as Natsu one shot the dude in base with a random roar."
I wouldn't say it was high difficulty, he had his magic power completely drained during the fight. Then he proceeded to destroy a black hole. He then one-shot Bluenote. That was his first serious hit and it beat him. I also wouldn't call that a random roar. Gildarts wasn't using magic in his fight to hit bluenotestinger.
Gildarts is far too fast for Natsu. His punches are simply too powerful and he can throw them out very quickly. Natsu's magic can't touch Gildarts because he would destroy it. Natsu could only hope for a draw in a fight with Gildrarts. In the end, we have still never seen Gildarts go all out. That is not the case with Natsu.
I am fairly confident that the movie promotional poster is what Natsu's dragon force will look like next time we see it, because the image was advertised as dragon force. お待たせしました. 超"ドラゴンフォ一ス"級のよ知らせがあります translates to "Sorry to keep you waiting. This is a super 'dragon force' class announcement".
I've always been an advocate that Dragon Force is what dragonizes a dragon slayer, and Acnologia's dragon force is his dragon form. I expect a fully dragonized Natsu to be on the same level as Igneel. A half dragonized version of Natsu would scale to half that power. I don't think Natsu is going to end up using dragon force against August or anyone else either. He might not be capable of entering dragon force on his own right now. When we do see it, however, I expect him to be using it against Acnologia in the final fight. This will probably be Natsu's strongest form.
That picture shows Natsu with bangages on his right arm. That means the movie is going to be filler unless Natsu just so happens to put another bangage on his arm again.
That picture shows Natsu with bangages on his right arm. That means the movie is going to be filler unless Natsu just so happens to put another bangage on his arm again.
Again, even if the story for the movie is filler that doesn't mean the powers and abilities shown within it are filler. If Natsu shows dragon force in the movie and that's what it looks like, then there's no reason it would look any different in the manga.
Again, even if the story for the movie is filler that doesn't mean the powers and abilities shown within it are filler. If Natsu shows dragon force in the movie and that's what it looks like, then there's no reason it would look any different in the manga.
Natsu to the God of War.
"Let me show you the flames of Igneel"
Right arm, bandages are there, Igneel pic, says his name. He meant he can never use this power again. It's not like I use it once and the timer starts there.
Natsu to the God of War.
"Let me show you the flames of Igneel"
Right arm, bandages are there, Igneel pic, says his name. He meant he can never use this power again. It's not like I use it once and the timer starts there.
CR translation: This is the fire of the fire dragon king. Also, Natsu can use the same type of fire Igneel uses any time he uses an Fire Dragon King spell. What he doesn't have is Igneel's raw magical power. When Natsu talks to Zeref about Igneel's magical power, he doesn't say Igneel's flames. He says Igneel's magical power. In fact, he only used FDK mode after several blows in base mode.
Natsu punches with his right arm. Igneel was a flashback to Natsu saying he wouldn't ever lose a friend again. Igneel's power does run on a time limit. If it didn't, then Natsu could have saved the power from that final attack when Happy stopped him. He couldn't. Most importantly, Natsu says he can only use Igneel's power once.
CR translation: This is the fire of the fire dragon king. Also, Natsu can use the same type of fire Igneel uses any time he uses an Fire Dragon King spell. What he doesn't have is Igneel's raw magical power. When Natsu talks to Zeref about Igneel's magical power, he doesn't say Igneel's flames. He says Igneel's magical power. In fact, he only used FDK mode after several blows in base mode.
Natsu punches with his right arm.
Igneel was a flashback to Natsu saying he wouldn't ever lose a friend again.
Igneel's power does run on a time limit. If it didn't, then Natsu could have saved the power from that final attack when Happy stopped him. He couldn't.
Most importantly, Natsu says he can only use Igneel's power once.
So you're saying during Natsus training he just formed a dragon on his arm. He had to use the abilities because Happy knows.
That attack on the God Of War has huge fucking fireball. Its literally the size of Natsu roar against bluenotestinger. So what you're saying the one used against the fodder was the same spell. That would mean Natsu made a road of fire that is the size of the God of war. And that would mean that one attack would lead them to the guild but that isn't the case is it?
Natsu clearly isn't capable of replicating that attack of that scale without Igneels powers.
とにかく = Anyways
この技は = This technique
一回 = Once
しか使えねえ = Only use
"Anyways, I can only use this technique once."
When Natsu entered FDK mode, he evaporated a lake. That's easily an AoE feat comparable with the roar Bluenote received. Also, Natsu does have attacks in base mode that are just as large as the roar he used against Bluenote. Are you trying to suggest that Natsu resorted to using Igneel's power against Bluenote? You do realize Natsu oneshotted a Spriggan 12 member last chapter right? Also, Natsu's arm reacted to both Ajeel and Brandish and Natsu had to purposely hold back on using its power. If Natsu could freely tap into Igneel's power, why would he hold back using it on Spriggan 12 members when he's using them against fodders? Also, why would Happy be surprised Natsu was going to use Igneel's power against Zeref so soon when he's already seen Natsu use an FDK roar against the army? Why would Zeref sense Igneel's magical power the exact moment the bandages came off, and not before?
The roar against Bluenote wasn't anywhere near the size of demolition fist. Just Ikusatsunagi's legs would have been taller than the hill Natsu and Bluenote were on. Zeref has an army 1 million strong. Natsu used a base roar against Bluenote. FDK roar is stronger, and takes out around 900 people in one go. Of course 1 single base roar isn't going to cut through the entire Alvarez army.
とにかく = Anyways
この技は = This technique
一回 = Once
しか使えねえ = Only use
"Anyways, I can only use this technique once."
When Natsu entered FDK mode, he evaporated a lake. That's easily an AoE feat comparable with the roar Bluenote received. Also, Natsu does have attacks in base mode that are just as large as the roar he used against Bluenote.
Also, Natsu's arm reacted to both Ajeel and Brandish and Natsu had to purposely hold back on using its power. If Natsu could freely tap into Igneel's power, why would he hold back using it on Spriggan 12 members when he's using them against fodders? Also, why would Happy be surprised Natsu was going to use Igneel's power against Zeref so soon when he's already seen Natsu use an FDK roar against the army? Why would Zeref sense Igneel's magical power the exact moment the bandages came off, and not before? Are you trying to suggest that Natsu resorted to using Igneel's power against Bluenote? You do realize Natsu oneshotted a Spriggan 12 member last chapter right?
Natsu did not evaporate the entire lake. When he entered blaze dragon king mode combined with Igneels power, the radius of that mode wasn't large as a lake.
Add some logic, fire hot enough doesn't have to make contact water to evaporate it. But in the last panel when Jacob was defeated, you see no flames standing meaning that Natsus fire was gone. igneels flames wasnt melting rocks but Hiro isn't going to draw that bullshit so I won't count that.
"Natsu had to hold back"
No, Natsu wanted to throwdown with Brandish after what happened to Mest. And he wanted to Ajeel to catch some hands aswell.
"Natsu one shotted a s12"
Congratulations! He one shot a spriggan who was scared to fight Erza because he's too much of a pussy to fight hand to hand. Natsu struggled in that fight a bit but I still call shit writing on that part.
"Zeref noticing Igneels power"
Zeref wasn't exactly there when Natsu punched the God of War was he? And plot, Hiro isn't going to reveal Natsu arm power in the Avatar arc. So let's gets this straight, Natsu is fully capable of throwing fire that large without Igneels powers, that's the point of the TS.
"Natsu one shot bluenote"
So can 99% of the FT members.
Natsu did not evaporate the entire lake. When he entered blaze dragon king mode combined with Igneels power, the radius of that mode wasn't large as a lake.
Add some logic, fire hot enough doesn't have to make contact water to evaporate it. But in the last panel when Jacob was defeated, you see no flames standing meaning that Natsus fire was gone. igneels flames wasnt melting rocks but Hiro isn't going to draw that bullshit so I won't count that.
"Natsu had to hold back"
No, Natsu wanted to throwdown with Brandish after what happened to Mest. And he wanted to Ajeel to catch some hands aswell.
"Natsu one shotted a s12"
Congratulations! He one shot a spriggan who was scared to fight Erza because he's too much of a pussy to fight hand to hand. Natsu struggled in that fight a bit but I still call shit writing on that part.
"Zeref noticing Igneels power"
Zeref wasn't exactly there when Natsu punched the God of War was he? And plot, Hiro isn't going to reveal Natsu arm power in the Avatar arc. So let's gets this straight, Natsu is fully capable of throwing fire that large without Igneels powers, that's the point of the TS.
"Natsu one shot bluenote"
So can 99% of the FT members.
Natsu didn't create a lot of flames when he entered FDK mode against Jacob. What evaporated the lake was heat. The size of the actual flames is irrelevant.
Did Natsu ever get the chance to throw down with Ajeel or Brandish? No.Did Natsu have to hold back against Jacob when they were inside the guild? Yes.
He oneshotted a Spriggan 12 enchanted by Irene to be so strong that Brandish's magic had no effect on him.
Zeref was aware of Natsu using Fire Dragon King's roar against his troops, down to the number of people it took out. Zeref was still surprised when Natsu took off the bandages and revealed Igneel's power. FDK spells =/= Igneel's magical power.
You were just arguing that Natsu had no attacks that could rival the roar he used against Bluenote.
Really? 99% of FT members can oneshot Bluenote? Okay. There are at least 115 members of FT. Name 113 members that can oneshot Bluenote.
Natsu didn't create a lot of flames when he entered FDK mode against Jacob. What evaporated the lake was heat. The size of the actual flames is irrelevant.
Did Natsu ever get the chance to throw down with Ajeel or Brandish? No.Did Natsu have to hold back against Jacob when they were inside the guild? Yes.
He oneshotted a Spriggan 12 enchanted by Irene to be so strong that Brandish's magic had no effect on him.
Zeref was aware of Natsu using Fire Dragon King's roar against his troops, down to the number of people it took out.
He was still surprised when Natsu took off the bandages and revealed Igneel's power. FDK spells =/= Igneel's magical power.
You were just arguing that Natsu had no attacks that could rival the roar he used against Bluenote.
Really? 99% of FT members can oneshot Bluenote? Okay. There are at least 115 members of FT. Name 113 members that can oneshot Bluenote.
