Current
Natsu
Is
Kind
Of
Featless
*one shot bluenote*
*one shot wargod*
*one shot jacob while burning an entire lake*
*defeated 100,000 averez troops pre-igneel power*
*tanked part of August's nuke*
*one shot enhanced Neinhart*
*one shot dimaria*
*end power up*
Please read manga before saying something so foolish
I was referring to current END Natsu, not Natsu in general, even after him one shotting Dimaria it's still vague on where to specifically place him considering other people one shotted/destroyed Spriggans too, you're really slow if you can't figure that out by the context where I was comparing him to current Gray, so I'd take your own advice if I were you about saying something
No because Erza has no knowledge of the heart if they had a 1v1 that's fundamentally unfair if you give that to her. Even if Hades has no heart he still wins with high-extreme diff, Base Hades is Gods of Ishgar level which Erza is barring, but not at yet. Overall Hades with and without his heart is stronger than current Erza.
I was referring to current END Natsu, not Natsu in general, even after him one shotting Dimaria it's still vague on where to specifically place him considering other people one shotted/destroyed Spriggans too, you're really slow if you can't figure that out by the context where I was comparing him to current Gray, so I'd take your own advice if I were you about saying something, "foolish" kid.
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No because Erza has no knowledge of the heart if they had a 1v1 that's fundamentally unfair if you give that to her. Even if Hades has no heart he still wins with high-extreme diff, Base Hades is Gods of Ishgar level which Erza is barring, but not at yet. Overall Hades with and without his heart is stronger than current Erza.
I was referring to current END Natsu, not Natsu in general, even after him one shotting Dimaria it's still vague on where to specifically place him considering other people one shotted/destroyed Spriggans too, you're really slow if you can't figure that out by the context where I was comparing him to current Gray, so I'd take your own advice if I were you about saying something, "foolish" kid.
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No because Erza has no knowledge of the heart if they had a 1v1 that's fundamentally unfair if you give that to her. Even if Hades has no heart he still wins with high-extreme diff, Base Hades is Gods of Ishgar level which Erza is barring, but not at yet. Overall Hades with and without his heart is stronger than current Erza.
As END he one shot Dimaria, being powerful enough to walk through frozen time. That, with the accumilation of everything he has shown this current arc, shows wheres he's at powerwise. The only reason you would think otherwise is if you think that END Natsu is somehow weaker than NON END Natsu. One shotting Dimaria is all you would need to know about where he is
Plot Induced stupidity and Character induced stupidity.
Meaning a character can do something but out of stupidity decides not to do it. For example Marin having the ability to teleport but asking Brandish to let him out a box that isn't restricting his magic. With plot it is more of something happening that doesn't really make sense, like Mirajane not being able to take over Sayla then all of sudden, due to the need of it for plot, she can.
I was referring to current END Natsu, not Natsu in general, even after him one shotting Dimaria it's still vague on where to specifically place him considering other people one shotted/destroyed Spriggans too, you're really slow if you can't figure that out by the context where I was comparing him to current Gray, so I'd take your own advice if I were you about saying something, "foolish" kid.
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No because Erza has no knowledge of the heart if they had a 1v1 that's fundamentally unfair if you give that to her. Even if Hades has no heart he still wins with high-extreme diff, Base Hades is Gods of Ishgar level which Erza is barring, but not at yet. Overall Hades with and without his heart is stronger than current Erza.
The gods of Isgahr have nothing to show their strength so they're featless.
Erza has too many armor advantages over Hades and he isn't that fast. A single swing can cut a 3 story ship in half, now apply that with a consistent wave of blows from Erza and she stomps Hades.
Erza doesn't have the feats to be solid Gods of Ishgar tier so she can't win, in Base, Hades wins with extreme difficulty. Unless you show me a panel of Erza casually/easily beating someone of Jura/Makarov's level then Erza isn't winning against even Base Hades.
The gods of Isgahr have nothing to show their strength so they're featless.
Erza has too many armor advantages over Hades and he isn't that fast. A single swing can cut a 3 story ship in half, now apply that with a consistent wave of blows from Erza and she stomps Hades.
They landed hits on Serena but I know that means nothing seeing as how he easily took care of them afterwards. That's why you scale them, Jura is at least x791 Laxus level right now, likewise with the other Gods of Ishgar who were said to be impossible for Jura to catch up to. Hades in base casually beat Makarov who's just 1 rank below Jura. Unless Erza does something to trump this in the future then she's not God of Ishgar level. which means she's not even beating Base Hades.
Erza doesn't have the feats to be solid Gods of Ishgar tier so she can't win, in Base, Hades wins with extreme difficulty. Unless you show me a panel of Erza casually/easily beating someone of Jura/Makarov's level then Erza isn't winning against even Base Hades.
As END he one shot Dimaria, being powerful enough to walk through frozen time. That, with the accumilation of everything he has shown this current arc, shows wheres he's at powerwise. The only reason you would think otherwise is if you think that END Natsu is somehow weaker than NON END Natsu... which is foolish. One shotting Dimaria is all you would need to know about where he is, so yes.... foolish.
Wow you fail lol. Gajeel one shotted a Spriggan, Laxus would've one shotted Ajeel and pretty much took out Wahl in 1 move once he was healthy, Gray destroyed Invel after he got his boost, etc. Using Natsu one shotting Dimaria as a means of ranking him means nothing when others are doing the same to other Spriggans. He need more feats first before accurately gauging specifically where he is at. You can give a general guess as to where he is at, but no real accurate answer as to where he can be placed in terms of power. Actually by feats Natsu with Igneel's Flames is currently stronger so you're wrong about this version of Natsu being his strongest one because there is nothing that supports this. Not only that but I highly doubt this is full power END, so there's even more assumptions if you take that into account. I originally said that it's hard to place current Gray because he has a slayer advantage against this version of Natsu, whom needs more feats to even be accurately ranked himself.
LOLOL WHAT XDDDD God Serena has far better feats that Ajeel, not only that but Gildarts confirmed that Serena would've been on par with him, that alone puts him leagues above most Spriggans. God Serena is the 3rd strongest Spriggan by feats as well (not including Larcade) and I already explained why and how you can powerscale the Gods of Ishgar accurately. No Erza isn't, she has no feats of surpassing God of Ishgar level, Ajeel had her by the neck about to end her when he put in some effort, and Ajeel by feats is a low tier Spriggan.
Ajeel and Serena are around the same level. The people who hype Serena to 3rd strongest Spriggan are kidding themselves. He 4 shotted heavily injured GoI and kept team Natsu at bay for a few seconds (note: did absolutely no damage to them in the process). Gildarts hyped Serena up to his level means jack shit when current Gildarts has little to nothing going for him aside from that hype (which you can't use since, well, that would be circular logic). Ajeel could defeat the GoI with a simple sand pit (literally none of them have a counter, except Jura, which is debatable).
Huh? She did it with Natsu, thats all there is to it.
Well the term "exact location" is pretty ambiguous. How do you define something's "exact position"? There isn't exactly a coordinate plane for Brandish to look at. How precise does Brandish's understanding of the object's position need to be for you to accept it as "exact"?
Literally to the T. Nothing short of knowing the opponents exact autonomy.
Well of course she tried to attack Neinhart. Neinhart attacked her first, she was just trying to defend herself. The situations aren't equivalent; Dimaria didn't do anything yet that would warrant Brandish attacking her without being treasonous. At least with Neinhart Brandish had an arguable excuse as to why she tried attack him.
She could just say DiMaria was going to attack. Don't tell me that Brandish did not expect DiMaria to NOT attack or at least know of the high probability, she simply knew that she couldn't do anything about her (first thing she said when she joined up was to cuff DiMaria, she knows she can't win in a fight).
Can Dimaria still use Age Seal when she's the size of an ant? Marin was shrunk by Brandish and as a result he couldn't teleport out of the little container she had him trapped in. I'd assume this means that a user's magic is stunted if the body's size is changed. It kind of makes sense considering that when the body shrinks, the MP container shrinks as well.
He still had his magic activated on Erza till Lucy stepped on him and Lucy was able to use stardress so yes they can. I see absolutely no reason why they wouldn't be able to use their magic.
Wow you fail lol. Gajeel one shotted a Spriggan, Laxus would've one shotted Ajeel and pretty much took out Wahl in 1 move once he was healthy, Gray destroyed Invel after he got his boost, etc. Using Natsu one shotting Dimaria as a means of ranking him means nothing when others are doing the same to other Spriggans. He need more feats first before accurately gauging specifically where he is at. You can give a general guess as to where he is at, but no real accurate answer as to where he can be placed in terms of power. Actually by feats Natsu with Igneel's Flames is currently stronger so you're wrong about this version of Natsu being his strongest one because there is nothing that supports this. Not only that but I highly doubt this is full power END, so there's even more assumptions if you take that into account. I originally said that it's hard to place current Gray because he has a slayer advantage against this version of Natsu, whom needs more feats to even be accurately ranked himself.
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LOLOL WHAT XDDDD God Serena has far better feats that Ajeel, not only that but Gildarts confirmed that Serena would've been on par with him, that alone puts him leagues above most Spriggans. God Serena is the 3rd strongest Spriggan by feats as well (not including Larcade) and I already explained why and how you can powerscale the Gods of Ishgar accurately. No Erza isn't, she has no feats of surpassing God of Ishgar level, Ajeel had her by the neck about to end her when he put in some effort, and Ajeel by feats is a low tier Spriggan. I hope you're trolling
Historias don't give off magic so Gildarts could only estimate how strong he would be if we're alive. So that doesn't confirm anything, he was giving God Serena the benefit of the doubt.
Here's were you are wrong, God Serena can not counter Ajeels sandworld, Dimarias magic, Brandish magic, Jacobs transport.
Serena being on the same tier as Ajeel stomped the 4 Gods. Erza lasted a lot longer with Ajeel.
You're missing the point though. You made the claim that Brandish couldn't enlarge Lucy's organs because if she was able to, Dimaria would have said the same thing for Lucy as she did with Natsu. My contention is that the hypothetical scenario that you suggest can easily be flipped, and that Dimaria could have just as easily said that Brandish could shrink both their bodies rather than enlarge both their organs. So why is it that you consider Dimaria not doing the latter proof that Brandish couldn't do that to Lucy, and yet you don't consider Dimaria not doing the former proof that Brandish couldn't do that to Natsu? Seems somewhat contradictory.
So what does this mean exactly? Is it like, Brandish should be able to draw out an outline of the organ on that person's body, or does she just have to be able to point to it, or what? Do you expect her to know the dimensions of the organ, how wide it is, how long it is, etc? I'm still somewhat confused on how you expect Brandish's understanding of the position of an organ to function.
She could just say DiMaria was going to attack. Don't tell me that Brandish did not expect DiMaria to NOT attack or at least know of the high probability, she simply knew that she couldn't do anything about her (first thing she said when she joined up was to cuff DiMaria, she knows she can't win in a fight).
Claiming that Dimaria was going to attack is not a valid excuse considering that she had no proof that she WOULD. Besides, Brandish and Dimaria have been lifelong friends (maybe an exaggeration but you get my point) and we had that whole scene where Dimaria hugged Brandish and showed how much she cared about her. I bet Dimaria trying to kill her was the last thing she expected.
He still had his magic activated on Erza till Lucy stepped on him and Lucy was able to use stardress so yes they can. I see absolutely no reason why they wouldn't be able to use their magic.
Highly doubtful, I think Current Erza and Current Mira should be at best Hyberion's level, I find it a little hard to believe Erza is above GOI level when she struggled with Ajeel and Neinhart..
Comparing Erza to Hyberion will depend on how you think Ajeel fares next to God Serena.
Personally I don't place much of a difference between Ajeel and Serena, but I do consider Serena stronger.
Erza did better against Ajeel than Hyberion did against Serena, I think this is a fact.
I've got no problem with Erza>Hyberion, I see it that way. What can change this is the GoI getting another chance, and that will also elevate God Serena for me, and possibly Gildarts' portrayal (until he gets a proper fight).
Ajeel and Serena are around the same level. The people who hype Serena to 3rd strongest Spriggan are kidding themselves. He 4 shotted heavily injured GoI and kept team Natsu at bay for a few seconds (note: did absolutely no damage to them in the process).
I agree Serena isn't necessarily the third strongest Spriggan, but saying him and Ajeel are around the same level is pushing it by a long shot..
He didn't 4 shot heavily injured GOI, he took them out in a 1 vs 4 and when they tried retaliating once again he simply replicated the same feats but with a more superior magic..
He's one of the Spriggan 12 members with the best feats in this arc, the only person who has feats almost as impressive as his is Dimaria and she's stronger than him..
Ajeel is among the low tier S12 members, God Serena is in the top bracket of the S12
Now this is just vastly underplaying the GOI, you do realize Ant Lion Pit is an immobilization technique, right? It's not meant to last damage, look at what happened when he used it on Team Natsu in Alvarez, Natsu simply burned the sand away..Wolfheim should have enough physical strength to dispel the pit and Warrod can simply use Wood Style: Deep Forest Emergence to remove himself from the pit.
Comparing Erza to Hyberion will depend on how you think Ajeel fares next to God Serena.
Personally I don't place much of a difference between Ajeel and Serena, but I do consider Serena stronger.
Erza did better against Ajeel than Hyberion did against Serena, I think this is a fact.
I've got no problem with Erza>Hyberion, I see it that way. What can change this is the GoI getting another chance, and that will also elevate God Serena for me, and possibly Gildarts' portrayal (until he gets a proper fight).
I think it should be something like Erza>=Hyberion...I think Hyberion would have an easier time against Ajeel than Erza did so that's one factor I'm using into play here...
Erza herself isn't on Spriggan 12 level, so automatically that means she would be a tier below the Spriggan 12...that's where I would put the GOI and her plus mages like Mirajane..
How about that?
Now this is just vastly underplaying the GOI, you do realize Ant Lion Pit is an immobilization technique, right? It's not meant to last damage, look at what happened when he used it on Team Natsu in Alvarez, Natsu simply burned the sand away..Wolfheim should have enough physical strength to dispel the pit and Warrod can simply use Wood Style: Deep Forest Emergence to remove himself from the pit.
I would say so, yes but not to quite the extent of Madara.
He showed the ability both transporting team Natsu to the sun village and then again against Serena. Although like he said it is more a support magic so I doubt it has any devastating abilities other than using the trees to maybe immobilise the opponent.
You're missing the point though. You made the claim that Brandish couldn't enlarge Lucy's organs because if she was able to, Dimaria would have said the same thing for Lucy as she did with Natsu. My contention is that the hypothetical scenario that you suggest can easily be flipped, and that Dimaria could have just as easily said that Brandish could shrink both their bodies rather than enlarge both their organs. So why is it that you consider Dimaria not doing the latter proof that Brandish couldn't do that to Lucy, and yet you don't consider Dimaria not doing the former proof that Brandish couldn't do that to Natsu? Seems somewhat contradictory.
So what does this mean exactly? Is it like, Brandish should be able to draw out an outline of the organ on that person's body, or does she just have to be able to point to it, or what? Do you expect her to know the dimensions of the organ, how wide it is, how long it is, etc? I'm still somewhat confused on how you expect Brandish's understanding of the position of an organ to function.
It means that she basically cant shrink someones interiors in battle period.
Claiming that Dimaria was going to attack is not a valid excuse considering that she had no proof that she WOULD. Besides, Brandish and Dimaria have been lifelong friends (maybe an exaggeration but you get my point) and we had that whole scene where Dimaria hugged Brandish and showed how much she cared about her. I bet Dimaria trying to kill her was the last thing she expected.
Highly doubtful, I think Current Erza and Current Mira should be at best Hyberion's level, I find it a little hard to believe Erza is above GOI level when she struggled with Ajeel and Neinhart..
..........Both Ajeel and Neinhart (if he summons one spriggan at full power like Wahl or even Serena for that matter lol) can do the same if not even more then Serena did against the GoI so that doesn't mean much.
He didn't 4 shot heavily injured GOI, he took them out in a 1 vs 4 and when they tried retaliating once again he simply replicated the same feats but with a more superior magic..
But thats exactly what happened. They were already heavily battle worn, it took him 4 DS magic attacks to take them out for good. It takes Natsu one basic one to take out someone with their level of durability (Bluenote) at full health. That makes each of those attacks used like 1/10 the power of Natsus basic roar. Thats pitifully weak by Spriggan standards. We are giving the GoI and Serena quite the benefit of the doubt but claiming he is even mid-tier Spriggan level.
He's one of the Spriggan 12 members with the best feats in this arc, the only person who has feats almost as impressive as his is Dimaria and she's stronger than him..
No. Almost every Spriggan has better feats then Serena, if we give him benefit of the doubt and that one hype statement from Gildarts (and then subsequently give Gildarts the benefit of the doubt lol) then hes mid-tier. Serenas feats consist of the above which I just showed you is pitifully weak and pushing team Natsu back (which you guys try and pass off as Serena destroying team Natsu despite him doing absolutely no damage).
It's not meant to last damage, look at what happened when he used it on Team Natsu in Alvarez, Natsu simply burned the sand away..Wolfheim should have enough physical strength to dispel the pit and Warrod can simply use Wood Style: Deep Forest Emergence to remove himself from the pit.
What? Yes it is, its supposed to bury you in the ground forever, thats the very definition of lasting damage. Wolfheim doesnt have enough physical strength to blow it away lol. Bury yourself in a pool of sand and try hitting the ground, see what happens (hint: the sand doesnt just scatter away ie you cant dispel it with physical strength alone). Warrod needs a base of ground, you cant make trees out of sand.
.........Both Ajeel and Neinhart (if he summons one spriggan at full power like Wahl or even Serena for that matter lol) can do the same if not even more then Serena did against the GoI so that doesn't mean much.
Wait, what? Where exactly is this from? And you basically pretty much agreed with me there on Erza being on the same level as the GOI by saying they would fare the same against the same opponent, which was pretty much my original point..
Also I hardly doubt that Ajeel can defeat all the GOI together like Serena did...good point on Neinhart though
But thats exactly what happened. They were already heavily battle worn, it took him 4 DS magic attacks to take them out for good. It takes Natsu one basic one to take out someone with their level of durability (Bluenote) at full health. That makes each of those attacks used like 1/10 the power of Natsus basic roar. Thats pitifully weak by Spriggan standards. We are giving the GoI and Serena quite the benefit of the doubt but claiming he is even mid-tier Spriggan level.
Dude, you're missing the point here, Serena beat the GOI twice, and he pretty much implied that they weren't serious the first time so the second time he just needed to exert more effort to defeat them. Mind you, he went completely overboard as implied by August.
About your BlueNote point, where on earth do you get he has the same durability as the GOI? That's a completely baseless statement.
Like? I'm curious what feats are these that put the other Spriggan 12 above someone who actually took down his opponents, and quite a formidable group at that.
Dude, I've always maintained that if God Serena's last attack had landed, the one that Gildarts broke, Team Natsu would be in a state equal to the GOI at the end of Serena's battle with them..
The impressive thing in that battle is that Serena was pretty much not at full power yet he pushed back a group of full health mages, even a mage who has an element similar to one of his own (Juvia)
I think it should be something like Erza>=Hyberion...I think Hyberion would have an easier time against Ajeel than Erza did so that's one factor I'm using into play here...
Erza herself isn't on Spriggan 12 level, so automatically that means she would be a tier below the Spriggan 12...that's where I would put the GOI and her plus mages like Mirajane..
How about that?
For me, Hyberion needs to prove he can fight at Erza's level, and not the other way around. There really isn't any reason Hyberion would fare better than Erza against Ajeel. Perhaps he might, given Erza needed time to figure out how to hit Ajeel... and Hyberion's magic wouldn't have that problem. That said, Hyberion needed considerable help against God Serena to make an impression - and all he accomplished was subduing Serena for a few seconds. So in terms of combat, Erza is more proven, while Hyberion has a rather deflating performance under his belt.
I think it's fine to group Hyberion with Erza due to convenience (you don't wanna be making heaps of tiers it's too messy). But unless Hyberion gets another fight, there is no way I could say Erza<Hyberion or Erza=Hyberion.
As for Mirajane, she's inferior to Erza for mine, but I put them on the same level for convenience.
Now this is just vastly underplaying the GOI, you do realize Ant Lion Pit is an immobilization technique, right? It's not meant to last damage, look at what happened when he used it on Team Natsu in Alvarez, Natsu simply burned the sand away..Wolfheim should have enough physical strength to dispel the pit and Warrod can simply use Wood Style: Deep Forest Emergence to remove himself from the pit.
I agree with @Mononoke@kira and u as well.....Warrod ha that technique but not at the level of MADARA though....
As for @kira What did u mean by THAT GUY? And weak than WARROD....U dumb idiot , looks u have a death wish......Baiting me like that......
As for the comparison between GS and AJEEL , if u want to compare them , then do it directly.........Why bring this GOI in between at all.?
GS has 8 DS magics... Fire , water , earth , lightning , air are the ones he has shown ......
1) He has water which can make sand much heavier just reducing the efficiency of control of the sand controlled....He has fire which can burn off sand like NATSU did...Also , he has shown to use combination of elements against TEAM NATSU when he stopped them briefly in their path....
2) GS is a Dragon Slayer mainly a 2nd generation if I have to say.Then , also the fact that he might possess the DRagon Force ...I mean the ability to have a scale covered transformation that LAXUS had shown which might increase his capabilities even further and we have not seen him use that in his previous battle now , have we ? ...That means he was strong enough to survive that......
3) @Brandish , U may be right ...Hyberion might have been weaker than ERZA but a tag team of 3 is certainly strong..And as i said above , GS did not use all his elements neitther DF alike force...And AJEEL was forced to use his best techniques...So , in that manner of comparison too , we can say GS is much stronger..At least stronger than AJEEL , NEINHART and others strong enough to make him among top tiers at least among top
list if not 3.....At least stronger than AJEEL..........As the discussion is his comparison
4) Also , if looking at it physically , I see AJEEL's durability no where near GS.He is a DS first giving him that advantage ..Also , if u want to look at it logically , FIRE can burn off sand....if not burn off , it can atleast convert it in to BAKED sand...And the properties of BAKED sand as we know how it is........MASHIMA does not apply Scientific knowledge ..So , once again , even leave that aside....
5) GS can use a series of attack.....WATER to make sand heavy , followed by LIGHTNING attack.....WATER is a conductor of Electricity, thus increasing the attack power..GS has shown to be able to use multiple power attacks in PROGRESSION........AJEEL will not even be given chance to use his most powerful attack.....In other words , GS and water based mages are worst possible match followed by FIRE and LIGHTNING based....
GS has them all...He can use variety of combinations and AJEEL can't defend them all.....
