....Where's Gajeel. And this Gray talk smh it's seems like none of y'all can find a good middle ground, some have him way too strong while others have him too weak
Technical ly spsaking
Technically speaking people cant shoot lightning outa their hands, we're talking about wizards her. Wahl didnt mention anything about needing to analyse Lightning, nor did he suggest that it played any part in his Lightning immunity. Does Natsu need to analyse the fire he eats?
Natsu is not a robot.
Okay, so Ajeel calls himself a god. I don't see why this would make him less credible than someone who has gotten his facts wrong before (August). As for Laxus' nuke being able to kill am average Spriggan, we'll just disagree because I personally am not going to take mere words for granted.
Well, he defeated a Spriggan with the same difficulty as Laxus, Gajeel, Jellal, and Natsu. He also fought on par with E.N.D. Even if you were to say Gray had slayer advantage, that wouldn't really matter because E.N.D is already stronger than Laxus.
No, Gray wasn't immune to Invel's ice at all.
If Red Lightning truly negates Wahl's immunity, then I don't see why it would be a bad match-up.
Actually, they are two completely different situations. In Gray's case, he has resistance to Ice but without it, it wouldn't be super effective against him. Wahl is naturally weak to electricity, so once anything bypasses his immunity, it should do a lot of damage to him. The part where it said "lightning that surpasses lightning" pretty much implies that the lightning wasn't the kind of lightning that Wahl was immune to (don't ask me how this makes sense because I was the first one to call out this nonsense). Anyways, it bypassed his immunity; therefore, it was super effective. As for what the chapter portrayed, we saw Wahl break into pieces. That is pretty significant in my opinion. It wasn't physical power because Laxus' punches at the beginning of the fight never even came close to that...
If Gray wasn't immune to insta-freeze, he would've lost. If Laxus wasn't dying from MBPs and Wahl wasn't immune or weak to lightning, he would probably have the same difficulty he had in the manga.
As i said, nothing was mentioned or implied that analyzing factors into his immunity, seems like people are just overthinking it and pulling things from nowhere.
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Disagree on the first part, August is pretty much the most credible source possible when judging the power of a spell, and he thought it was a spriggan killer.Okay, so Ajeel calls himself a god. I don't see why this would make him less credible than someone who has gotten his facts wrong before (August). As for Laxus' nuke being able to kill am average Spriggan, we'll just disagree because I personally am not going to take mere words for granted.
Well, he defeated a Spriggan with the same difficulty as Laxus, Gajeel, Jellal, and Natsu. He also fought on par with E.N.D. Even if you were to say Gray had slayer advantage, that wouldn't really matter because E.N.D is already stronger than Laxus.
No, Gray wasn't immune to Invel's ice at all.
As for Invel's Ice Raiment, I don't see any immunity there. All Gray did was use Invel's ice against him.
If Red Lightning truly negates Wahl's immunity, then I don't see why it would be a bad match-up.
Actually, they are two completely different situations. In Gray's case, he has resistance to Ice but without it, it wouldn't be super effective against him. Wahl is naturally weak to electricity, so once anything bypasses his immunity, it should do a lot of damage to him. The part where it said "lightning that surpasses lightning" pretty much implies that the lightning wasn't the kind of lightning that Wahl was immune to (don't ask me how this makes sense because I was the first one to call out this nonsense). Anyways, it bypassed his immunity; therefore, it was super effective. As for what the chapter portrayed, we saw Wahl break into pieces. That is pretty significant in my opinion. It wasn't physical power because Laxus' punches at the beginning of the fight never even came close to that...
If Gray wasn't immune to insta-freeze, he would've lost. If Laxus wasn't dying from MBPs and Wahl wasn't immune or weak to lightning, he would probably have the same difficulty he had in the manga.
Oh, well in that case, I don't see the need to argue. We won't agree in the slightest. Just curious, how strong do you think E.N.D is compared to Invel?
Slayer advantage only affects attack power. Durability is completely separate and we saw Gray tank a roar from E.N.D, so I don't see how that wouldn't be a huge deal. I disagree with your last sentence but I won't open up a whole different debate.
I'll admit that I kind of forgot what happened in that fight, so I can't make a comment here. In terms of power though, I have Laxus above Etherious Tempesta.besides, Laxus did fought Etherious Tempester in the anime which was basically Hiro's decision which gives us a look at Laxus durability and endurance
though he basically lost that fight if it wasn't for water.
Interesting... I think you're the third or fourth person to say this. That's funny because E.N.D is underrated in my opinion. I don't have Gray above Natsu nor do I have Natsu above Gray. But I have both of them above Laxus and we clearly won't agree on this.
Well, I don't buy that translation/definition of Red Lightning as I've explained why in the past. I also don't buy the fact that the MBP's lowered Laxus' attack power. Nothing suggests it and Laxus seemed completely fine when he launched that nuke at Ajeel.Laxus on the other hand has to use his DS magic yet, especially now when he is healed. Red Lightning is seemingly just another property or whatever
I highly suspect that MBP in his body for a year did lower his attack power imo.
I don't take August's word for granted, especially after he hyped Larcade and was wrong about it. You can say I'm being bitter, but I will never solely rely on hype again. I will only consider it if feats or portrayal backs it up.
PoF is not a permanent power-up. Hence, I don't label it as PoF.
I disagree. Laxus has yet to prove that he has higher durability and endurance. That was the past. Now, he needs to show that he can fight someone on E.N.D's level. Plus, Laxus needed rest and was hospitalized after his fight with Wahl + Hades' Historia. Meanwhile, Gray defeated Invel and fought E.N.D before passing out.
I'll let you have the last word since we aren't going to agree. It was a pretty good discussion though. We just see things completely opposite.Disagree on the first part, August is pretty much the most credible source possible when judging the power of a spell, and he thought it was a spriggan killer.
For the second part FDK Natus>Partial END imo, by a fair amount. Gray's attacks also werent really doing much, plus slayer advantage.
Gray was immune to Invel's ice, Invel outright stated it. Yes Gray was getting damaged, but its thanks to his ice resistant body that he was only receiving that level of damage
Considering Laxus was already hyped to kill Azir, i see Wahl dying to him par for the course.
Well, what you're referring to here is elemental advantage. I was referring to the E.N.D vs Gray fight when I talked about slayer advantage. Natsu and Silver aren't completely immune to fire and ice (respectively), but I understand what you mean. They are resistant.
Invel gets defeated by FDKM Natsu and END if you ask me(no Ice Lock and Ice Slave). I don't rate END above FDKM just because it looks cool.
underrated and overrated.
its from the volume. it explains what it is and its called Mercury Fulminate: Red Lightning so yeah, its just another property. not really into chemistry
. MBP weakens people because I don't see MBP not affecting him AT ALL during the one year. he even had pain a night before he fought Wall. if you don't believe that MBP didn't hinder his attack power at least a bit and his durability then oh well...as I said, we don't use August's words for granted. I said moderate damage at least not outright killing him.
if you consider him above FDKM that is...
that's good. Erza is featless.
if you put END above FDKM. we have Erza stopping Gray and Natsu and now she fights Irene lol. call it a PIS but she did it anyway. END's roar was pathetic.
I don't see that hype for Gray other than his trump card against Zeref which will unfortunately fail and super effectiveness against END.
Goku wasn't the strongest during Cell arc and Majin Buu arc. he is not even the strongest in the current arc. he is basically a fodder.
To be fair, that volume paragraph describes what Raiko means, but not what the spell Red Lightning does or if that lightning contains Mercury Fulminate.its from the volume. it explains what it is and its called Mercury Fulminate: Red Lightning so yeah, its just another property. not really into chemistry
true but I don't think they would just give us a chemistry lesson just for lolzTo be fair, that volume paragraph describes what Raiko means, but not what the spell Red Lightning does or if that lightning contains Mercury Fulminate.
As for MBP's, I tend to agree with you. As far as we know, MBP's are poison that eat ethernano. They don't start or stop, they just constantly work. Laxus had to live with it, and sometimes his body gave out. It was implied by Wall that being in this state meant Laxus was 'not human', probably thanks to the effects of being a dragon slayer. His MP was lessened, not sure by how much, being able to drop a nuke seemed easy to him. When Laxus was sick, one shot of the Railgun gave him around 30 seconds of fighting ability. Durability is lessened when you don't have MP (it's been implied, main time I recall it is when Laxus was hit by Hades) but not sure it matters much tbh. People do have physical toughness without MP. What does matter is that Laxus copped hits without guarding or trying to fight back. Gildarts was put down for a while because Bluenote was kicking him.
That said, it's possible others might get through a year with MBP's in their system as well. Still it's pretty obvious that this was used to keep Laxus down for a bit. Not because "he's so strong", but he could disrupt other battles. The same reason Gildarts only came back recently imo. It's just how Hiro wants to do it.
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Nah, i just dont see it, there is simply too many dots that need to be connected to come up with this conclusion on a single read of the chapter.
Fair enough.
Well, you have a point. But I personally don't buy it. Most people think of the MBP attack as something that gradually affects the victim over time. I see it differently. From my viewpoint, the MBP's only affected Laxus during certain time intervals. Basically, he was okay for the first half of the fight. But the moment Wahl transformed into Assault Mode, that is when he was weakened.its from the volume. it explains what it is and its called Mercury Fulminate: Red Lightning so yeah, its just another property. not really into chemistry
Fair enough. But even "moderate damage" is an assumption. Just saying.
Well, Gray did tank E.N.D's attacks with ease (which has nothing to do with effectiveness). But if you don't think E.N.D is that strong, then we'll just have to disagree.
Well, I only watched DBZ, so I can't comment on the current arc. You're probably right considering you keep up with the series. But my point is that Goku was pretty much the strongest character by the end of DBZ. Nobody could surpass him. Everytime someone went Super Saiyan 1, he had Super Saiyan 2. And when someone went Super Saiyan 2, he had Super Saiyan 3. The only time someone surpassed him was when Gohan learned Super Saiyan 2. Besides, Goku was the strongest character for the majority of the series. There may be characters who have surpassed him at one point but he was always superior in the end.
