Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[WoWfan]

Again, both END and Gray were weakened and Erza has yet to fight another Spriggan

 

[Axiomus]

Natsu could oneshot Jacob and Neinhart without Igneel's power, and Neinhart was stronger than your average Spriggan by Irene's enhancement. With Igneel's power, it would be overkill.

Erza fought Irene afterwards.

 

[WoWfan]

Last I checked he could not, and by words of wisdom, he could not one shot Ajeel who was supposedly the weakest of the Spriggans and his arm with Igneel’s magic still throbbed at his presence.

That does not mean that she fought any Spriggans earlier before

 

[LaGOAT]

Again, and I cannot stress this enough that Gray is meant to be a natural weakness to END because he is a Demon and Gray is a Devil slayer. And again, both are weakened and Erza is just that naturally strong.

That’s like saying if Marco had devil slayer magic would be going toe to toe with END. Gray having devil slayer magic=/=weakness to END END Was vulnerable to devil slayer magic that was it. 2. What do u mean Erza is naturally strong? R u saying that “becuase it’s erza” she is above END? Who u claim that is stronger than zeref? by ur logic ur saying Erza>=zeref 3. Erza has been weakened to she was fighting way before she came to stop them that isn’t an exuse

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2018 ---

Last I checked he could not, and by words of wisdom, he could not one shot Ajeel who was supposedly the weakest of the Spriggans and his arm with Igneel’s magic still throbbed at his presence.

That does not mean that she fought any Spriggans earlier before

Again that doesn’t mean anything. Ig natsu would have erased them. Sprigggans were a joke except for August

 

[WoWfan]

What does that even mean, it is a natural weakness for a magic like that to do most damage to Demons, while an exhausted Wendy did more damage to a dragon than full power Mira did. No, she is simply that strong because both Natsu and Gray were not at their best despite having their strongest known forms because one is in the process of transforming while damaged by a devil slayer while the other came back from a fight with a Spriggan and is wounded. END would have been able to kill Zeref if he reached him before getting FH or completely transformed. No, Erza has been well rested up for around a day, and we know that a short amount of time and rest can restore your magic power rather quickly. If Natsu didn’t not erased Zeref then he would not erase other Spriggans, they are stronger than any other enemy besides Zeref and Acnologia.

 

[Axiomus]

Last I checked he could not, and by words of wisdom, he could not one shot Ajeel who was supposedly the weakest of the Spriggans and his arm with Igneel’s magic still throbbed at his presence.

That does not mean that she fought any Spriggans earlier before

Natsu took out Jacob with a demolition fist, and Neinhart was taken out in base mode. The attacks he used to take them out were far weaker than DF Demolition Fists or Igneel's power. There's no reason to believe Ajeel is weaker than any of the other Spriggans. Also, there's a huge difference between the punch base Natsu used against Ajeel, and the huge FDK attacks that Natsu uses when he's serious. Igneel's magic throbbing means nothing. It throbbed in Brandish's presence as well.

Not really relevant whether she fought any Spriggans prior to blocking the hit. END didn't damage Erza enough to impede her ability to fight Irene. In other words, not impressive. END's enraged strike did less damage to Erza than Ajeel did.

If Natsu didn’t not erased Zeref then he would not erase other Spriggans, they are stronger than any other enemy besides Zeref and Acnologia.

Zeref is a lot stronger than a Spriggan, as you pointed out. Igneel's power would have killed Zeref, so it would have killed any Spriggan.

 

[WoWfan]

That only shows that base Natsu is far stronger than post Igneel magic since base Natsu could not down Ajeel the weakest spriggan, and could not even Oneshot neinhart and it is common knowledge that summoners are physically weak in the FT universe. That only shows how necessary Natsu being serious is for against Spriggans, it shows they are real threats. Again, END was not at his strongest and was injured as well, so of course he would not be delivering a fatal blow to someone who is in better condition than him.

There is no proof that it would have, Zeref was making a hypothesis, and Natsu is even less reliable in his guarantee to kill Zeref. That does not change the fact that Igneel’s magic still reacted to Spriggans before Zeref.

 

[Arjuna]

Natsu's arm didn't react to Laxus,an easily Spriggan level fighter who would have killed Ajeel according to August.So his arm reacting to the Spriggans is most probably because they are connected to Zeref.Nothing more nothing less.

 

[WoWfan]

Well Laxus was likely not emitting magical power like the Spriggans, and even Gray trembled at the magic power of the Spriggans saying it is the highest level he ever sensed, and no, nothing states that they have anything to do with Zeref besides allegiance iirc. Because magic power is tethered to strength, so it is quality and quantity as well.

 

[Nemispelled]

I don't think Laxus would be a good example in regards to Natsu reacting with his bandaged arm.

Laxus is on the same side as Natsu, so there wouldn't be any reason for Natsu to activate Igneel's power. It's true that Natsu reacts to his bandaged arm when he feels that his opponent could prove to be a challenge, but he's not going to aimlessly use Igneel's power just because he senses a lot of magical energy coming from somebody.

It's a conscious decision. And I'm sure Natsu wouldn't waste the one-time power up on an ally.

 

[LaGOAT]

What does that even mean, it is a natural weakness for a magic like that to do most damage to Demons, while an exhausted Wendy did more damage to a dragon than full power Mira did. No, she is simply that strong because both Natsu and Gray were not at their best despite having their strongest known forms because one is in the process of transforming while damaged by a devil slayer while the other came back from a fight with a Spriggan and is wounded. END would have been able to kill Zeref if he reached him before getting FH or completely transformed. No, Erza has been well rested up for around a day, and we know that a short amount of time and rest can restore your magic power rather quickly. If Natsu didn’t not erased Zeref then he would not erase other Spriggans, they are stronger than any other enemy besides Zeref and Acnologia.

It means that she can easily can put damage a dragon than a human mage. by ur logic why couldn’t. Any of the DS defeat a dragon during the GMG arc? Also why couldn’t Wendy beat 1v1 vs Irene since she a DS. My point is gray having Devil slayer magic doesn’t guarantee that he would have easily damage natsu as u can see from the fight natsu was eating his attacks no problem no go reread the chapter Erza was fighting zeref fodders and then came to stop natsu and gray fighting hence why she able to tell them that makarov “died” ig natsu needed one more shot to possibly kill zeref if happy didn’t stop him 2.what make u think that the other spriggans would have had a chance.

ur Point about natsu wasn’t able to beat ajeel is laughable and irrelevant 1.natsu wasn’t serious 2.i just brought a point that Team Natsu struggled vs brandishs lackey we All know what happen to the spriggans later so why is that even a point?? I mean it took freaking elfman and lisanna to beat ajeel. And u know that elfman and lisanna doesn’t even Sniff to be around natsu’s level.

Ur right about base natsu>ig natsu but it’s also above END ur talking about how we are speculating if zeref was BS about END can’t beat him but u have zero proof that he could have either when we saw clear as day that he couldn’t do shit to Erza idc if U believe that wasn’t fully transform what we saw in the manga (maybe the anime if it doesn’t decide to change it) is that what his full form.

so it’s basically goes like this 7DS>base>DF>=ig>END>FDKM\BKDM

 

[WoWfan]

One, they were tired and already weakened, besides Sting but that is a different matter. Irene is like Acnologia, she was not fully a Dragon until she turned into her dragon form, and gave her DS magic to Erza, even then they both still (technically) lost to Irene. It does actually as Natsu becoming a demon means he was subject to the effects of Devil Slaying magic, though yes that does not always guarantee instant win, but neither does it mean it is not any similar to other magical attacks to demons. Folder =/= Spriggans. There was nothing to support ig magic would have worked in the first place. Well for one, Ajeel was about to kill Natsu and the gang in Alvarez. Serious or not, Natsu still stood no chance against him without getting serious. That was off screen so we do not know how they won so that point is invalid. That changes nothing that END was created by Zeref himself who is proposed to kill him, and END surpasses the power of Gods. I already provided prove, you do it then, counter all the points I made.

 

[LaGOAT]

One, they were tired and already weakened, besides Sting but that is a different matter. Irene is like Acnologia, she was not fully a Dragon until she turned into her dragon form, and gave her DS magic to Erza, even then they both still (technically) lost to Irene. It does actually as Natsu becoming a demon means he was subject to the effects of Devil Slaying magic, though yes that does not always guarantee instant win, but neither does it mean it is not any similar to other magical attacks to demons. Folder =/= Spriggans. There was nothing to support ig magic would have worked in the first place. Well for one, Ajeel was about to kill Natsu and the gang in Alvarez. Serious or not, Natsu still stood no chance against him without getting serious. That was off screen so we do not know how they won so that point is invalid. That changes nothing that END was created by Zeref himself who is proposed to kill him, and END surpasses the power of Gods. I already provided prove, you do it then, counter all the points I made.

1. Nice excuse lol but sting and cobra was fresh as day so that point is debunked. she a DS SO again she shouldnt have no problem beating Irene in a 1v1 battle according to ur logic.

END oneshotted dimaria U making it seem that natsu was having trouble with her. Erza put more effort Beating up fodders than END oneshotted a spriggan.

I said he would possibly would have killed zeref we can’t know that cuz happy stop natsu. 2. Why are comparing zeref to spriggan when no of the spriggan are on zeref lvl bro. If zeref having problem with Ig natsu what makes u think that the spriggans have a better chance?? Bro its magic is a power of a dragon who are consider the strongest in the verse.

Ur not making sense ajeel is weaker than natsu y is that a point? natsu oneshotted neinhart. Oneshotted Jacob in FDKM. Erza even beat ajeel. 2. Their plan was to escape with makarov they wasn’t tryna fight 3.Laxus almost oneshotted him with a casual nuke.

So were the demons from tartaros. Lol by oneshotted dimaria?? some1 gray and Erza have no problem stopping END. END was a disappointment just accept it

 

[WoWfan]

Well unlike sting, Cobra just came out of prison and this did not have time to train to reach their level yet did more damage than any regular mage combined. That is not the point, the point is that DS do more damage than regular wizards but as proven it doesn’t guarantee victory. You have no proof that END onshotted Dimaria, she was just defeated brutally by him. The fact that she could stop time proves otherwise. Those fodder were powered by Irene, don’t make excuses now. Yet still hypothesized by both Natsu and Zeref, so you cannot use Igneel power to say that it would have worked simply by strength alone, but has something else that makes it special. I am not comparing them, I am saying that Igneel’s magic reacted to the strength of Spriggans. Yet the manga confirmed that Spriggans are strongest enemies Fairy Tail ever faced in their intro volume. Because Neinhart is a summoner, summoners are known to be physically weak, yet Natsu did not Oneshot him. Jacob could not fight back at that point, Erza had help beating Ajeel. Tell that to Natsu when he fought back. Those demons were failures, but END was the success, (no proof of a Oneshot) fought Dimaria as proof she had to activate Time Stop which she did not at the time she was about to stab Lucy. END did not fully develope yes, but that does not take away that he was capable of defeating Zeref with his known abilities.

 

[Axiomus]

END didn't oneshot Dimaria. We know this from the volume extras, which explained Natsu took out Dimaria with 2 hits. Once after he broke free, and once after he saw Lucy.

Igneel's power reacting to the power of the Spriggans doesn't mean anything. It doesn't prove the Spriggans are on Igneel-powered Natsu's level. It doesn't even prove the Spriggans are stronger than base Natsu. Neinhart was enchanted by Irene to have a level of power which dwarfed Brandish's magic, and base Natsu took him out easily.

Natsu is perfectly capable of oneshotting Spriggans. Natsu took out Neinhart with 2 punches in base mode, one of those punches didn't really even have any fire behind them. It would only take Natsu one good FDK spell to take down Jacob, and the only reason Natsu didn't just blast him with a giant FDK attack from the beginning because he didn't want to damage the guild. The Dragon Force FDK demolition fist he used against Zeref it would vaporize them like it did Zeref. Zeref survived because he was immortal and could use FH to rewind time to reconstruct his body. The very first punch that Igneel-powered Natsu used sent Zeref through the side of a cliff. Both of these attacks would spell disaster for your average Spriggan.

END was not at the level where it could defeat Zeref 400 years ago. That's why Zeref had Igneel train Natsu. Igneel was straight up stronger than END. Zeref didn't deny it when Natsu pointed out that Igneel could have crushed him with one toe, and even said there was no physical reason Igneel could not kill END. END wasn't strong enough to beat Zeref in the Alvarez arc either. Not with his attacks being easily stalemated by Gray, and blocked by Erza. Even with a Devil Slaying advantage, END should be overpowering a wounded Gray. Fairy Heart's infinite power trumps the slayer advantage. The darkness in Zeref's heart trumps Gray's darkness.

END's enraged attacks should cause serious damage to Erza, who has no slayer advantage and no darkness in her heart. Erza didn't just block END's claw attack, she also blocked Gray's attacks. The combined wounds from END and Gray's enraged attacks didn't do any major damage to Erza that would impede her performance against Irene later on. Zeref has top tier durability. He can take Igneel powered Natsu smashing him through solid rock. I see no reason Zeref can't block or tank of the any hits END-Natsu hit Gray with. At least with DF Natsu, you can argue without Fairy Heart it would take a long time for Zeref to regenerate his body from dust. With END's powers, I struggle to see how Zeref doesn't just dominate him with his black magic like he did base Natsu.

Fairy Heart makes it even worse. END might be able to move in Dimaria's time, but there is nothing to suggest that he can burn away Zeref's time magic altogether and prevent Zeref from reversing time to restore himself. There is literally nothing he could do that would actually put Zeref away, especially since the love Natsu had for the guild was what allowed him to use the savage flames of emotion. END's mindless hatred for Zeref isn't the same. If Mashima is consistent on one thing, it's that the power of love trumps hate.

With Dragon Force or Igneel's power the debate is centered around whether or not Natsu could actually kill Zeref or leave him in a really bad shape. Even if Natsu can't straight up kill Zeref, Natsu would still come out winning the fight. WIth END's power, the debate is centered around whether or not END could even outfight Zeref. Even then, it's really only a debate if we're talking about base Zeref. With Fairy Heart it is a straight up no contest. Forget about blasting apart his body. Forget about actually killing Zeref. Forget about overpowering Fairy Heart. I am not convinced END's power can let Natsu beat up base Zeref, let alone anything beyond that.

 

[WoWfan]

Actually it was more uneffected, there was no info on him breaking free. The volume stated that the Spriggans are the strongest enemies fairy tail ever faced, that includes the dragons they faced. Neinhart is meant to be physically weak like other summoners, yet was defeated not by one shot. He could not defeat Spriggans without getting seriously. Jacob could not fight back at the time. No it would not vaporize them, just like it did not vaporize Zeref the first time on the first shot, Natsu never used Igneel power until Dragon King mode, that was his regular power. END did not develope enough in time to fight Zeref, he was busy with Gray who is meant to stop demons, that is how his powers could stop him, Zeref’s darkness is not relèvent to Gray’s because he is a devil slayer, both were weakened compared to Erza who has yet to fight another Spriggan who is in better condition. END can just increase his temperature to the point to warp space and time since his curse power are powered by emotions as well, and with his power he can end Zeref’s immortality. By your logic END is stronger than Igneel because looking back at it now, Brandish can effect Natsu voluntarily or not, while END is outside her range

 

[Axiomus]

There is no real evidence to suggest Neinhart was physically weak. He was just unfortunate enough to have come up against Natsu and Jellal, who were proven to be top tier by the end of the series. In fact, there is evidence that he was a cut above the rest of the Spriggans due to Irene's enchantments, which even made fodder footsoldiers extremely tough. Neinhart went down easy with attacks far weaker than the DF Demolition Fist Natsu used on Zeref, which did indeed vaporized Zeref's body. Zeref survived because he was immortal and could rewind time. Jacob and Neinhart would not be able to survive this.

Natsu used Igneel's power from the moment he unveiled his bandages. There was a distinct moment where Zeref took notice of its power and heat. He did not use Igneel's power when he FDK roared at the army. Natsu used a bunch of base attacks with Igneel's power before going FDK mode. Brandish has only managed to effect base Natsu. She also managed to effect the END tumour, but that tumour grew when Natsu thought Lucy was dead to a point where she couldn't effect it. Brandish never used her powers on Igneel-powered Natsu. Not once. Nothing about Brandish's ability to affect base Natsu while they were playing even remotely suggests that END's power was greater than Igneel's. Zeref confirmed Igneel could have stomp END to death.

END's power was at its height when fighting Gray. It never would have developed further because the tumor was actually killing Natsu. Not long after Natsu and Gray stopped fighting, Natsu collapsed and would have died if not for him destroying his seeds. Both Fairy Heart's infinite power and the Ankhseram death curse offers Zeref a much greater advantage than a slayer advantage. It was never necessary to have devil slayer magic to beat a demon. Zeref doesn't need slayer magic to beat END. I would argue that Irene, August, Gildarts, and Jellal would have all beaten END-Natsu in a straight up fight.

END has never shown any feats of burning space-time magic. He could move through Dimaria's time, but he couldn't burn the magic itself and stop Dimaria from slowing time. If he could, Lucy would have started moving. Natsu was only able to tap into the savage dragon fire because of his love for his friends, which is obviously more powerful than his blind hatred for Zeref. Even if END's power grows stronger as his emotions does, Natsu is not going to be any more enraged fighting Zeref than he was fighting Gray. He already thought Lucy was dead, so it's not like he was going to get much angrier. Zeref converted the darkness in his heart into power too in that final exchange, so Natsu would have lost if the darkness in his heart was weaker than Zeref's (and let's be honest, Zeref's been through a lot worse than Natsu has). The only reason Natsu won was because of his love for his friends. Because love is the strongest power. This is arguably the entire theme of the Fairy Tail series, if it even has a theme at all.

 

[WoWfan]

Of course, but that doesn’t take away from their strength with made even Fairy intimidated. Neinhart being a summoner is proof enough, it has been described that way since Tenrou Island. That was only for magic power, not berserk which was used on Alvarez soldiers. And even then, that would mean that Brandish could not effect Natsu anyway if it were both magic and physical restriction, but it isn’t, she could effect him with physical superiority. Anyway, that does not take away that he used igneel’s Flames before, by his own words using igneel’s Magic. There is the flaw in your usage of Natsu’s strongest mode, R1 Zeref he could not kill him on the first strike even with Ig power, R2 FH Zeref, he was instantly vaporized by a weakened Natsu before using savage flames. No, END was not at his height as he was still in the process of transforming, as proven where he lacked basic of Demon features before. END given enough time like in the last battle can just raise his heat to the point of distorting space time, it is not an ability, it is a natural effect, his ability would be to surpass his immortality. It was only killing Natsu by his indecisive nature, becoming a demon was not killing him, killing Zeref would kill him. It was for this case with Gray, even Zeref could not kill Natsu before like other demons. We would not know, it was likely he could kill Zeref as END, it is not like hatred is limited. Curses are powered by negative emotions while magic is for more or less positive emotions, particularly friendship, and love being the source of all magic would make sense it could go either way and can be weak or strong. But even with power of feelings or savage flames that still surpass Zeref’s immortality.

 

[Axiomus]

Brandish and Ajeel may have intimidated FT, but Neinhart also intimidated Brandish. Natsu then proceeds to beat Neinhart. So merely acknowledging someone's level of magical power doesn't tell us anything either way. Characters can get stronger by emotions or using different modes.

Just because Brandish can affect Natsu when he's playing around with her on Happy's head, doesn't mean she can affect him when he's going all out in a serious fight. If you plucked Natsu from his fight against Zeref right before he was about to land that final flames of emotion punch, and put him in front of Brandish...I guarantee you Brandish would not stop Natsu. Again I will accept Dimaria and Brandish being able to affect base Natsu, depending on how serious he is. But not against the versions of Natsu that was beating Zeref and Acnologia.

Destroying Zeref's body doesn't necessarily kill him. Igneel's power would have killed Zeref. DF Natsu's demolition force could vaporize Zeref's body, but Zeref was still alive. We know even if Zeref is decapitated, he would eventually heal back up. Without Fairy Heart, destroying Zeref's body in this fashion might count as a KO. We can argue whether Igneel's power, or Dragon Force, or even Natsu's base mode PoF is the strongest power. This is a subject open for interpretation, depending on what criteria we're using. END's power is not part of this discussion. Every attack by END's power has been categorically blocked, tanked, or otherwise countered by an injured Gray. None of the onscreen feats END has would be enough to take down Zeref in a fight.

Everyone in Fairy Tail uses the power of emotions. Including Zeref. Natsu only managed to beat Zeref because his love for his friends outweighed Zeref's despair and hatred for humanity. Take away the love for his friends from Natsu and replace it with hate...and I would argue we are crippling Natsu's POF. Natsu's hatred for Zeref and grief from losing Lucy is probably not going to outweigh Zeref's 400 years of resentment at humanity.

 

[Eisenfaust]

I hope we get later Databooks/Powerlvl cards like we did with Tartarus member and in the previous arc in Grand battle magic.