Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Nemispelled]

Darkness Gray is just Gray with POF. "Darkness" is just negative emotions, and getting stronger because of emotions is POF.

Except that I don't see why Gray is the only character that "needs" a description/title before his name to emphasize his strength/power at a particular instance in the manga. It's unnecessary and only serves to downplay him when people simply refer to him as "Gray"... especially since its a fanmade term that implies his "regular form" is far weaker.

The fact that emotions are used in a battle doesn't warrant the creation of a special title. Almost every character in the manga shows some sort of emotions in a fight... it's part of the storyline and writing. Even the robots in this manga have some level of emotion while fighting an opponent.

As far as I'm aware, descriptions are generally placed before a name to signify a character's transformation or form. This includes the common ones like DF, FDKM, LFDM, ISDM (Iron Shadow Dragon Mode), DeS, and Etherious forms as well as other variants such as Ignia-Powered or Igneel-Powered Natsu since the magical power in these versions are derived from an external source.



The title of "Darkness" attached to Gray's name is arbitrary and doesn't hold any real significance, especially since plenty of other FT characters have also had similar circumstances, yet they never needed a random title such as "Darkness" to describe their power in battle/power-ranking threads. Here are a few examples:

1) Juvia vs. Meredy

Spoiler: "Darkness" Juvia?

As you can see from these panels, Juvia's power and attitude completely changed after Meredy mentioned that Gray was #1 on her "To-Kill List". Just a few panels back, Juvia was struggling against Meredy, but then all of a sudden was able to turn the tables around on her.

Yet, I don't see anyone ever labeling this instance as "Darkness Juvia" or "Obsession-Powered Juvia".


2) Erza vs. Minerva

Spoiler: "Darkness" Erza?

And obviously you can't really talk about this subject without mentioning the Queen of this herself... Erza. For context, the panel posted above is referencing Erza being enraged at Minerva for torturing/harming Millianna.

This resulted in Erza defeating Minerva even after having her leg smashed by a falling boulder in her previous battle with Kagura. And as unrealistic as this fight was, I don't see anybody labeling this form of Erza as "Darkness Erza" or "Vengeance Erza".


3) Jellal vs. Neinhart

Spoiler: "Darkness" Jellal?

Well, we talked about Erza, so let's also add in her boyfriend Jellal while we're at it. This is the epitome of "Darkness" if we want to put a label on a character.

This dude literally went from being oneshotted by an unnamed blast from Neinhart, and then proceeding to oneshot the fodder Spriggan a few chapters later after he was "pissed" from seeing Erza injured.

Once again, I don't see anybody claiming this version of Jellal as "Darkness Jellal" or "Merciless Jellal", let alone question the outcome of this fight.




Anyways, you get the point. I could probably give numerous other examples throughout FT where "Darkness" could have been applied, but wasn't. Idk why Gray vs. Invel was an exception, but maybe it's because people found it hard to believe that Base Gray could defeat a Spriggan.

Regardless, I'm not trying to deter anybody from using the term "Darkness Gray". Personally for me, it never really made sense in my mind, which is why I'm not inclined on using it to describe Gray in these discussions.

 

[Seven777]

Except that I don't see why Gray is the only character that "needs" a description/title before his name to emphasize his strength/power at a particular instance in the manga. It's unnecessary and only serves to downplay him when people simply refer to him as "Gray"... especially since its a fanmade term that implies his "regular form" is far weaker.

The fact that emotions are used in a battle doesn't warrant the creation of a special title. Almost every character in the manga shows some sort of emotions in a fight... it's part of the storyline and writing. Even the robots in this manga have some level of emotion while fighting an opponent.

As far as I'm aware, descriptions are generally placed before a name to signify a character's transformation or form. This includes the common ones like DF, FDKM, LFDM, ISDM (Iron Shadow Dragon Mode), DeS, and Etherious forms as well as other variants such as Ignia-Powered or Igneel-Powered Natsu since the magical power in these versions are derived from an external source.



The title of "Darkness" attached to Gray's name is arbitrary and doesn't hold any real significance, especially since plenty of other FT characters have also had similar circumstances, yet they never needed a random title such as "Darkness" to describe their power in battle/power-ranking threads. Here are a few examples:

1) Juvia vs. Meredy

Spoiler: "Darkness" Juvia?

As you can see from these panels, Juvia's power and attitude completely changed after Meredy mentioned that Gray was #1 on her "To-Kill List". Just a few panels back, Juvia was struggling against Meredy, but then all of a sudden was able to turn the tables around on her.

Yet, I don't see anyone ever labeling this instance as "Darkness Juvia" or "Obsession-Powered Juvia".


2) Erza vs. Minerva

Spoiler: "Darkness" Erza?

And obviously you can't really talk about this subject without mentioning the Queen of this herself... Erza. For context, the panel posted above is referencing Erza being enraged at Minerva for torturing/harming Millianna.

This resulted in Erza defeating Minerva even after having her leg smashed by a falling boulder in her previous battle with Kagura. And as unrealistic as this fight was, I don't see anybody labeling this form of Erza as "Darkness Erza" or "Vengeance Erza".


3) Jellal vs. Neinhart

Spoiler: "Darkness" Jellal?

Well, we talked about Erza, so let's also add in her boyfriend Jellal while we're at it. This is the epitome of "Darkness" if we want to put a label on a character.

This dude literally went from being oneshotted by an unnamed blast from Neinhart, and then proceeding to oneshot the fodder Spriggan a few chapters later after he was "pissed" from seeing Erza injured.

Once again, I don't see anybody claiming this version of Jellal as "Darkness Jellal" or "Merciless Jellal", let alone question the outcome of this fight.




Anyways, you get the point. I could probably give numerous other examples throughout FT where "Darkness" could have been applied, but wasn't. Idk why Gray vs. Invel was an exception, but maybe it's because people found it hard to believe that Base Gray could defeat a Spriggan.

Regardless, I'm not trying to deter anybody from using the term "Darkness Gray". Personally for me, it never really made sense in my mind, which is why I'm not inclined on using it to describe Gray in these discussions.

The fact that it has it's own name described in the manga, to me is what distinguishes from it from all other PoF. If it's simply PoF like Jellal gets or like Erza gets then what the hell was the point of Invel's little speech?

Imo Darkness was a reserve of power that Gray had yet to access, like second origin or the power that Natsu unlocked against Gajeel back in the day. I also don't like that "Darkness Gray" is used in PL discussions, but that's just because I think Base Gray is Darkness Gray. He's already unlocked that power, it's his now. Similar to how Natsu became permanently Gajeel tier after he unlocked his hidden power.

 

[Axiomus]

Except that I don't see why Gray is the only character that "needs" a description/title before his name to emphasize his strength/power at a particular instance in the manga. It's unnecessary and only serves to downplay him when people simply refer to him as "Gray"... especially since its a fanmade term that implies his "regular form" is far weaker.

The fact that emotions are used in a battle doesn't warrant the creation of a special title. Almost every character in the manga shows some sort of emotions in a fight... it's part of the storyline and writing. Even the robots in this manga have some level of emotion while fighting an opponent.

As far as I'm aware, descriptions are generally placed before a name to signify a character's transformation or form. This includes the common ones like DF, FDKM, LFDM, ISDM (Iron Shadow Dragon Mode), DeS, and Etherious forms as well as other variants such as Ignia-Powered or Igneel-Powered Natsu since the magical power in these versions are derived from an external source.



The title of "Darkness" attached to Gray's name is arbitrary and doesn't hold any real significance, especially since plenty of other FT characters have also had similar circumstances, yet they never needed a random title such as "Darkness" to describe their power in battle/power-ranking threads. Here are a few examples:

1) Juvia vs. Meredy

Spoiler: "Darkness" Juvia?

As you can see from these panels, Juvia's power and attitude completely changed after Meredy mentioned that Gray was #1 on her "To-Kill List". Just a few panels back, Juvia was struggling against Meredy, but then all of a sudden was able to turn the tables around on her.

Yet, I don't see anyone ever labeling this instance as "Darkness Juvia" or "Obsession-Powered Juvia".


2) Erza vs. Minerva

Spoiler: "Darkness" Erza?

And obviously you can't really talk about this subject without mentioning the Queen of this herself... Erza. For context, the panel posted above is referencing Erza being enraged at Minerva for torturing/harming Millianna.

This resulted in Erza defeating Minerva even after having her leg smashed by a falling boulder in her previous battle with Kagura. And as unrealistic as this fight was, I don't see anybody labeling this form of Erza as "Darkness Erza" or "Vengeance Erza".


3) Jellal vs. Neinhart

Spoiler: "Darkness" Jellal?

Well, we talked about Erza, so let's also add in her boyfriend Jellal while we're at it. This is the epitome of "Darkness" if we want to put a label on a character.

This dude literally went from being oneshotted by an unnamed blast from Neinhart, and then proceeding to oneshot the fodder Spriggan a few chapters later after he was "pissed" from seeing Erza injured.

Once again, I don't see anybody claiming this version of Jellal as "Darkness Jellal" or "Merciless Jellal", let alone question the outcome of this fight.




Anyways, you get the point. I could probably give numerous other examples throughout FT where "Darkness" could have been applied, but wasn't. Idk why Gray vs. Invel was an exception, but maybe it's because people found it hard to believe that Base Gray could defeat a Spriggan.

Regardless, I'm not trying to deter anybody from using the term "Darkness Gray". Personally for me, it never really made sense in my mind, which is why I'm not inclined on using it to describe Gray in these discussions.

Darkness Gray isn't a term that is used to downplay Gray. Quite the opposite tbh. Every character is stronger when they tap into POF. We make a distinction for Natsu and Erza when they're on POF versus when they're not. The 3 instances you mentioned are characters using POF. The only difference with Gray' is that negative emotions get a fancy name called darkness. I have no problem if you just wanted to call "Darkness Gray" as "Gray with POF". It's basically the equivalent "Savage Flames Natsu", which is also basically just Natsu with POF. In fact, basically anything you can say about darkness you can also say about Natsu's flames of emotions. It's not a fan made term either. That's literally what it's called.

Invel actually explains that darkness is the source of Zeref's magic. Below is Zeref himself actually tapping into that darkness for his final attack against Natsu. Zeref's darkness is literally just his emotions of anger and sorrow, which he is converting into power the same way Natsu was converting his emotions for the guild into power. They are literally doing the same exact thing with different emotions. The biggest misconception about darkness is that it's anything other than a fancy name for POF with negative emotions. The second biggest is that only Gray can tap into it. Everyone has the potential to use darkness because everyone can experience some negative emotions. It's only more pronounced in characters like Gray/Zeref because they've got a lot bad stuff going on and have a more, for lack of a better word, emo personality than most other characters. But even characters like Natsu have "darkness". We know that the dragon seeds are darkness too. We later find out that in Natsu's case his darkness was his doubt over his humanity. When he got rid of that darkness by reaffirming his belief in being human, the seeds broke.

Darkness Gray is stronger than Gray with zero POF. Again, this is simply because emotions tends to make everyone stronger. Now, I would imagine that regular POF has the potential to make Gray stronger than darkness, because Mashima's whole shtick is that love is a greater source of power than darkness. But Gray's current best feats are the ones he has against Invel, and he tapped into his darkness for that.

 

[Acnologia2415]

All of the Spriggan are at least country. That's been settled, an has plenty of examples. We know several of the Tenrou squad prove themselves Spriggan lvl. An if there was any doubt it should be long gone now.

I can see some of the Spriggan being country level like Brandish, August, and Irene due to the nature of their magic, but the others not. They all seem to have around the same magic power (expect the top 2) but their magic are different. Some have really hax magic like Dimaria and Bloodman, which arent country level but are still very op so they can beat country level opponents. Just because they arent country level doesnt mean they are weak and dont have good hands. If they used Brandish's magic (which should be able to let Gajeel beat Aldoron in a 1v1) then I would say they're all country level, since they are stated to have the same magic power as her.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 24, 2020 ---

Gray is like big city level at the most.

Nah I'd say Gray is around large mountain level

 

[Seven777]

The biggest misconception about darkness is that it's anything other than a fancy name for POF with negative emotions.

It being a misconception implies you know this as fact. You don't. Even in that video you posted, Zeref mentions his curse along with the negative emotions that make up darkness

 

[Axiomus]

It being a misconception implies you know this as fact. You don't. Even in that video you posted, Zeref mentions his curse along with the negative emotions that make up darkness

Gray isn't cursed. And more importantly....He's saying "Hear me, my curse. My rage, My sorrow....Transform all that darkness into power". He's telling his curse to transform his rage and sorrow (which is his darkness) into power.

 

[Seven777]

Gray isn't cursed.

DeS magic uses curse power as seen with Bloodman.

 

[Axiomus]

DeS magic uses curse power as seen with Bloodman.

Doesn't matter. Gray's power is not similar to Zeref. Zeref doesn't use devil slaying magic, or even the powers of demon. Zeref was cursed by Ankhseram. Gray is not. Their powers have nothing to do with each other.

And also, Bloodman has a curse that gives him devil slaying properties. It doesn't mean Gray's devil slaying magic can tap into curse power. We've never actually seen Gray use curses.

 

[Seven777]

Doesn't matter. Gray's power is not similar to Zeref. Zeref doesn't use devil slaying magic, or even the powers of demon. Zeref was cursed by Ankhseram. Gray is not.

Their powers have nothing to do with each other.

Except Gray's power is similar to Zeref's, it's stated outright by Invel. Zeref created demons, hes the origin of curse power
Not that any of this is at all relevant since Zeref's darkness becoming power is still related to curse, which means that the power of darkness is more than negative emotions.

 

[Axiomus]

Except Gray's power is similar to Zeref's, it's stated outright by Invel. Zeref created demons, he created Curse Power.
Not that any of this is at all relevant since Zeref's darkness becoming power is still related to curse, which means that the power of darkness is more than negative emotions.

No, Gray's power is not similar to Zeref. Invel is just saying that Gray has darkness, which is the same as what Zeref is using. The actual curse that Zeref is talking about, the Ankhseram's curse....Is not even remotely similar to Gray's devil slaying magic.

Like I said, Gray isn't cursed the same way Zeref is. Darkness was stated to be something that is within everyone by Invel. So unless every person on the planet is cursed by Ankhseram, then being cursed simply isn't a prerequisite to having darkness.

 

[Ramen]

Gray does have resistance to curses to some degree.

 

[Seven777]

No, Gray's power is not similar to Zeref. Invel is just saying that Gray has darkness, which is the same as what Zeref is using. The actual curse that Zeref is talking about, the Ankhseram's curse....Is not even remotely similar to Gray's devil slaying magic.

It is, Invel literally states that the dark power in side Gray is the root of Zeref power.
But like I said, doesn't really matter. It still distinguishes the power of darkness from PoF. Because rather than tapping into his negative emotions, he's calling on his curse to transform them into strength.

 

[Axiomus]

Gray does have resistance to curses to some degree.

Resistance to a demon's curse =/= Cursed by Ankhseram to be immortal.

 

[Ramen]

Resistance to a demon's curse =/= Cursed by Ankhseram to be immortal.

I never implied otherwise but sure.

 

[Axiomus]

It is, Invel literally states that the dark power in side Gray is the root of Zeref power.
But like I said, doesn't really matter. It still distinguishes the power of darkness from PoF. Because rather than tapping into his negative emotions, he's calling on his curse to transform them into strength.

Yes....They both have darkness. The similarity ends there.

The darkness itself are emotions. It is literally an umbrella term used to describe various negative emotions. Invel said darkness is a source of power within every human. That wouldn't be true if you needed to be cursed by Ankhseram, learn devil slaying magic, or be created as an etherious.

 

[Seven777]

Yes....They both have darkness. The similarity ends there.

The darkness itself are emotions. It is literally an umbrella term used to describe various negative emotions. Invel said darkness is a source of power within every human. That wouldn't be true if you needed to be cursed by Ankhseram, learn devil slaying magic, or be created as an etherious.

I'm not sure why I need anything more than that.

But does everyone have a curse to transform them into strength? I mean, why is Gray literally the only character in the manga(bar Zeref) to have his PoF described as Darkness? Like Nemi said, Jellal should have been using it too, he just saw Erza get brutally tortured, plenty of characters are fueled with negative emotions but it's not the same thing. Darkness is a source of power, don't mean everyone can tap into it, the fact that almost no one does it and the fact that Zeref uses a curse to wield his speaks to this.

 

[Axiomus]

So let's break this down.

I'm not sure why I need anything more than that.

But does everyone have a curse to transform them into strength? I mean, why is Gray literally the only character in the manga to have his PoF described as Darkness? Like Nemi said, Jellal should have been using it too, he just saw Erza get brutally tortured, plenty of characters are fueled with negative emotions but it's not the same thing. Darkness is a source of power, don't mean everyone can tap into it, the fact that almost no one does it and the fact that Zeref uses a curse to wield his speaks to this.

Because you're trying to say that darkness is something other than emotions.

You don't need a curse to transform darkness into strength. Invel literally said that everyone can tap into it. When Zeref's talking about his "curse", he's talking about Ankhseram's Black Magic. He doesn't actually use any curse power in the same way a demon does. He uses magic power, and when talks about using magic power...He calls it magic power. He's not a demon.

Gray doesn't use curses either. So in that respect, they're similar. But anyways....Gray doesn't have Zeref's Ankhseram curse. So even if Zeref can draw upon darkness from his Ankhseram Curse....It ain't something that applies to Gray, or the 99% of the rest of humans that Invel says has the potential to access it.

 

[Seven777]

So let's break this down.


Because you're trying to say that darkness is something other than emotions.

You don't need a curse to transform darkness into strength. Invel literally said that everyone can tap into it. When Zeref's talking about his "curse", he's talking about Ankhseram's Black Magic. He doesn't actually use any curse power in the same way a demon does. He uses magic power, and when talks about using magic power...He calls it magic power. He's not a demon.

Gray doesn't use curses either. So in that respect, they're similar. But anyways....Gray doesn't have Zeref's curse.

Not necessarily, though that was my initial thought. Rather I'm saying that it takes more than negative emotions to get power from Darkness.

As I recall you said that Invel said that everyone has it, not that they all can use it. The official translation also says something different. How about you give me an exact word to word translation so I can make a better informed opinion?
Invel specifically says that Darkness is the source of Zeref's Black magic, and then specifically mentions Gray doing the same, so I don't see a problem with this.

Gray doesn't need to have Zeref's curse, the fact that Zeref, probably the most negative guy on the planet bar maybe Acnologia, uses a curse to tap into his darkness, clearly distinguishes darkness from PoF. What Gray does with his DeS magic in relation to darkness isn't really all that relevant, because darkness itself has already been distinguished. And like I said, why does Jellal not get Darkness? Why does Erza? Why not any other character feeling negative emotions? If everyone can tap into it.... why doesn't anyone?

 

[Axiomus]

Not necessarily, though that was my initial thought. Rather I'm saying that it takes more than negative emotions to get power from Darkness.

As I recall you said that Invel said that everyone possesses it, not that they all can use it. Why has that changed? The official translation also says something different. How about you give me an exact word to word translation so I can make a better informed opinion?
Invel specifically says that Darkness is the source of Zeref's Black magic, and then specifically mentions Gray doing the same, so I don't see a problem with this.

Gray doesn't need to have Zeref's curse, the fact that Zeref, probably the most negative guy on the planet bar maybe Acnologia, uses a curse to tap into his darkness, clearly distinguishes darkness from PoF. What Gray does with his DeS magic in relation to darkness isn't really all that relevant, because darkness itself has already been distinguished. And like I said, why does Jellal not get Darkness? Why does Erza? Why not any other character feeling negative emotions? If everyone can tap into it.... why doesn't anyone?

I'm sorry. Invel did say everyone possess it, not everyone necessarily uses it. Sorry for the confusion. The most accurate wording is found here, as they do a word-for-word translation.

What I'm saying is that darkness is just negative emotions. Everyone has that inside of them. I imagine some people are better than others at turning those emotions into power. Though you don't necessarily need to be cursed by Ankhseram to do it, because that is exceedingly rare and would rule out Gray. Maybe Ankhseram's curse does provide an extra source of darkness, but that's pretty much something that applies exclusively to Zeref. Nor do you need to learn devil slaying magic, because that would rule out Zeref himself. Nor do you have to use a demon's curse power, because that would honestly rule out both Gray and Zeref.

I mean, they probably do. There's a bunch of evil guys running around. I imagine the guys at Avatar who use Black Magic use darkness too. Like I said, the dragon seeds are also darkness. It stands to reason that characters like Acnologia and Irene are using darkness too. Natsu when he was in END mode was almost certainly tapping into darkness (both from the seeds, and from the fact he thought Lucy was dead). I would not be at all surprised if Jellal was using darkness back when he was evil. As for Erza and Juvia using darkness? I mean, yeah. They felt negative emotions and got stronger. In Juvia's case, she did get significantly stronger. In Erza's case, she got stronger over feeling no emotion at all. However, whatever power she gets from negative emotions generally pales in comparison over her typical righteous nakama fuel. Darkness isn't as great of a source of strength for Erza and Juvia because they don't have as much negative stuff going on in their head. Well Erza might, but she finds a way to spin almost everything into a lesson about nakama.

 

[LaGOAT]

I'm still hanging around this subsection/forum. I just haven't been as engaged in any power ranking discussions post-Alvarez since much of it is either plagued with assumptions or simply doesn't make sense with all of the past BS from Alvarez Arc.


Lately, I've been seeing a lot of people power ranking by the size/AoE of attacks and throwing out terms like city level, country level, continental level, and multi-continental level to justify their argument. In my opinion, judging a character off of their AoE alone is effectively meaningless because it doesn't take into account the damage output, casting time, exaggeration/limitations of manga panels, and the existence of glass cannon characters (high destructive capacity, yet fodder durability/defense).

For example, Irene's Universe One is hailed for its massive AoE, but the only feat it ever accomplished in the manga was screwing over Bloodman's last ditch effort to kill Gajeel. While others praised that spell, I was rather unimpressed by the end results.

I even remember a time when people used to regularly power rank characters based on the megatonnes of an attack, which they measured from mere pixels on a manga panel... Personally, I'm not interested in debating those types of discussions.



Aside from the above, I also tend to have unpopular opinions - namely, I never bought into the whole "Darkness Gray" deal.

To me, the term never made any sense since plenty of characters go through rage-filled or bloodlusted fights in the manga, yet none of them have ever had a "fanmade title" attached to their name. Even though I'm well aware that the instance was supposed to highlight the impact of "Juvia's death", it was really no different from any other regular adrenaline rush portrayed in the manga, which is still within the extent of a character's own power.

And you can see why that would be a problem if I participated in the current battle/power-ranking discussions.



Also, contrary to what others have said, I don't see how the recent Laxus vs. Erza fight proved that they were both on Gildartz's tier... At most, the only thing that came out of that fight was the power difference between the two. I don't see how we could extrapolate those feats to compare their powers to other characters who were never apart of their fight.

Unless anybody thought that either Erza or Laxus were already established to be Gildartz's tier before the fight, it's impossible to judge their placement in the overall power ranking scale if we don't have anything else to reference.

The only conclusion that came out of that battle is the direct comparison between Erza and Laxus, as well as any other opponents that they have faced in the manga thus far.



Anyways, glad to see that others are still getting a kick out of this power-ranking thread. While I don't have many opinions to offer myself, I'm still willing to see what others have to say.

Oh that’s cool but do u think laxus>erza?