Registered User英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
- Sep 3, 2017
- Reaction score
You say please don’t compare...but you’re entire counter argument is an analysis in comparisons. Now, the only direct comparison other than their fight is the Hades battle, and again your argument relies on minimizing or ignoring it outright. All of Erza’s best feats are from battles that take place after a gauntlet of battles. This is no different. An we know they had recovered enough magic to expect to win. Now, we don’t need to give Laxus anything. We can directly compare how Laxus performed vs how the team of them performed. He did more damage and Hades displayed more power against Laxus than he had the entire fight so far. An it sets a precedent as this is the first time Erza see’s him fight and we have her admitting she didnt think he was this strong. There is absolutely no reason to ignore this other than that it continues the narrative that Laxus is above them. An sets up Laxus as an ace in the wing. A position he essentially fills for the rest of the manga until Gildarts is brought back into the fray.this i want to talk about first
I am talking pre ts only
You and alot of fans would rank laxus speed above erza, on what you find impressive
I try to compare with some sort of relationship
Laxus vs hades not a good example because erza is wrecked. But lets just give benefit of doubt to laxus and put him equal to jellal speed (laxus has no feats like jellal meteor)
I can compare fine with jellal here
Heaven arc jellal blitzing natsu is somewhat around racer blitzing natsu
I know for a fact that racer cant blitz erza, even if she is not concentrating on him. Her souring armor speed puts her around racer speed
Not being too precise (we dont have much data) i can make an informed guess that
Jellal meteor = racer = erza souring armor
Saying one is faster than the other is fans creating things by themselves. Mishma has not clearified who is faster.
Erza souring armor has no good feats, well yes. But thats the way mishma makes erza fight. Nothing more.
Is there something wrong with what i said above
And please dont compare
Tartarus jellal to tartarus racer
That is like comparing
Alverzec natsu to alverzec erigor (you know how that will go)
Because it doesn't
In ff arc, Laxus was over estimating the hell out himself. There is also no proof he didnt fall asleep by mystogan
Mystogan and markarov were putting erza on a whole different level compared to laxus. And sadly they were not biased.
Using hades performance is synonymous to using laxus vs natsu fight to say
Natsu > laxus
Good comparison would be when everyone is hundred percent or the one you wish to claim being stronger is not hundred percent and the other one is
Good example would be
Laxus after kiria fight vs hundred percent erza
(Of course laxus being actually a good guy and friend not being included here)
Because there is actually portrayal of natsu shitting himself when erza walks towards him. There is actually portrayal of erza treating natsu like gildarts and laxus did (one shotting him in one fights)
There are actual fights where natsu fell far too short from erza
Natsu vs blinded aria (compared to wrecked erza vs full powered aria)
OS first appearance where racer was enough to put down natsu, gray and some other fodders (gray was hit by angel as well)
While cobra, racer and hoteye in a sneak attack had to put erza down
The above are actual feats, with actual comparisons. With no guesses from me like you people make in for example boft (you dont actually know erza wouldnt have done better than laxus, you are guessing)
So your evidence
Laxus vs natsu plus gajeel (how do you know erza cant do this)
Hades performance (horrifying example, erza had already decided give up before even facing hades)
Jura (good example. But erza took out tye next two strongest mages, difference between gmg laxus and gmg erza shouldnt be that much)
Tempester (bad example, erza fought someone much stronger, with power of another demon gate, was literally getting stronger as she fought. And erza was already tortured before that)
In all these only jura example is good one. Rest dont show anything
I think you base alot of things on the anime. Manga doesnt say much about that 25 formula.
What evidence do i have. I have some
But you have to understand, i dont make comparison like laxus vs tempester compared to tortured erza vs demon Minerva then koyoka with saliha powers and enhancement curse on top that
Mine are simple. With little guesses on my part
Laxus >> natsu (fight)
Erza >> natsu (portrayal wise plus feats) (aria, os arrival, pantherlily)
Remember portrayal is more important than flashy things (august hits harder but wahl punches can throw laxus far away)
Markarov statement that erza can take laxus (boft)
Jellal statement that who would win (heaven arc)
Jellal statement about zero (OS)
Zero >=< erza (though i believe zero>erza)
Start of series erza was said to be WS tier
Jellal >= Erza = jura
(Tenrou erza took out WS tier monster S class Monster plus 99 other monsters) gmg erza with out SO was around 8 or 7 WS tier. ( os jura was around 10 WS)
All people got same boost in the first time skip
Three months training (laxus) = SO (erza)= 7 years of hard training (jura) =7 year experience plus SO (jellal)
Even till this day, erza was suprised that laxus performed at her level
So manga world, atleat in pre ts no one thought laxus was above erza, this is against sharp contrast of erza and natsu difference.
In gmg arc gray made a comment that laxus doesnt need to train. But that was followed by gray thinking erza already had second origin.
Laxus has no feats like Meteor? He blitzed Acno, and is consistently shown as one of the faster characters in FT. Though for the record, I consistently give Jellal the nod speed wise over Laxus. It’s what makes it a good fight, Jellal is a faster & more versatile Wizard. As a for the rest, you really did all that work to break down how you think Racer & Jellal are comparable, but want to ignore the time they actually go at it? If we ignore the fact that Jellal literally embarassed Sawyer when they fought. How does Erza beating him in her speed armor help the argument that she’s anywhere close to Jellal? Jellal didn’t need Meteor to beat Erza. this line of deduction is false.
Huh? No proof, he knew his face and deepest secret. How would he know that if he was sleep? An we know it’s a direct power issue. Like a direct correlation. Exactly like him being a Jellal clone and his opinion of Erza being exceptionally high. An Makarov hoping she could do it, isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement. That sounds like, I hope she POF’s and pulls the win. Which isn’t an unreasonable hole by any means. People keep confusing Laxus is strong with Erza is weak. She’s a monster, she’s just the smaller monster.
It’s nothing like that. Nice try to obscure the point by pairing it with a ridiculous argument though.
I agree, those are great examples. An even with all her growth, Erza came up short. She lost, but found a new sense of peace for the future of her guild. I have no reason not to believe her. We’ve honestly debated that battle to death, but I’m always down for more.
Natsu has been the genuine heavy in their group since Tenrou. An has been portrayed as closing on her for a minute, but I already stated that they spent the series chasing her. How does this help your argument about being stronger than Laxus though?
Hanging out with the proof that she can also beat them so one-sidedly.
You must be joking, now it’s that she gave up? Hold this L bro. He outperformed her because he was supposed too. It’s his place in the story. His big return moment. Those are better excuses than she gave up.
They had a 3 way battle, then she gauntleted them. Solidly impressive, but not as good as beating a Gildarts tier opponent.
Great example. Laxus literally 1 shot the demon with the best vitality. An then was still shown capable of killing him in his best form, while literally dying from poison. After he shows himself equal to LFDM Natsu.
I think their all great examples hence the minor nitpicks painted as counter arguments. An yes, I follow all of it. I include the cannon side stories in my analysis too, because it’s all designed to be used that way. I see Mashima adding scenes that he meant to have in the manga as an absolute win.
I was following your logic, but your examples work well at establishing she’s stronger than Natsu. They don’t support the idea she’s stronger than Laxus. There are more statements comparing Laxus to Gildarts than to Erza. Your only salient point is Makarov saying she might be able to win. The rest is your headcannon. Nothing supports your arbitrary WS numbers. An nothing suggests she’s comparable to Jura, Laxus, & Jellal this arc. The only direct comparison outright stated she’s significantly weaker. An nothing suggests SO closes that gap.
I keep starting to debate you, but if you genuinely feel Erza has no growth power wise until SO...doesn’t really make sense to get into it with you about the entire series. Where did you come down on the recent battle again?Erza has never once gotten stronger in the series until Second Origin and literally fought Kagura/Minerva as her BoS self while Tenrou Natsu was losing to Max. I think it's quiet safe to say that Erza was basing that statement on Natsu's potential more so than his actual power at the time. It's no question that Erza by feats and portrayal was much stronger than Natsu.
Erza = Laxus in Tenrou tbh. "How strong is he?" was to reference to how surpised she was of his strength back in Tenrou which mean she believed herself to be on the same level or stronger than Laxus since then. Erza has been at the very least close to Laxus tier the whole manga.
How is it headcanon when the proof is in the feats? Flare didn't best Lucy and that was shown when her best attacks only burned Lucy's boots lol. Lucy clearly was going to wreck her had Obra not stepped in. The same Lucy from the GMG was capable of fighting back 3 9Ds for a short period of time and you think Flare was actually in her league??? Gray is self explanatory. He beat Rufus who is far stronger than Needle boy and Rufus is the one who stomped that game too. Gray is far stronger than Needle boy and that proven on the final day of the GMG when he took out opponents far stronger than Needle boy. You are trying to base Gray's strength off a game and not an actual battle lol. Also Raven Tail did not step up on Natsu or Erza once for a reason. Any of their members would have gotten stomped. Erza's or Natsu's feats >>>> Raven Tail's feats.
You mean the same Gildarts that oneshotted a mountain??? Yeah, Jura was not competing with that when his attacks were beat out by Cana's FG in the MPF. The same attack that Bluenote no diffed on Tenrou. By feats Gildarts would have smoked the entire GMG by himself. He was far too powerful which is why he wasn't allowed to fight until Alvarez. This also the same Makarov who couldn't follow Tenrou Erza's movements yet had no trouble keeping up with Laxus' and Jura's fight. So Tenrou Erza is far faster than x791 Laxus? Lol. Feats proved that Makarov's claims were false.
Yes, it was a complete manhandle. Natsu was beating him down so much that Tempester couldn't even throwback an attack. He then starts fighting with Gajeel in the middle of his fight with Tempester. This again after Natsu went through his fight with Franmelth prior. Their feats >>>>>>>>> OS feats. Any single Tartarus member could have trashed those four OS members. Kyouka with a finger flick stomped Rustyrose who is stronger than any OS member in that fight.
OS hadn't kept up with times. They were in jail so their powers were stagnant. That means each of their individual powers < Tenrou Natsu < Max. So they aren't an impressive squad at all. Natsu would oneshot any single one of those guys like he did Max. And they weren't even relevant in Alvarez either. They were just shown to get stomped on and helped in none of the fights. We also see that their training was garbage as Meredy was still weaker than Zancrow after an entire 8 years of training . If they were actually relevant than they would have been utilized, but they weren't. Even in the 100YQ they are nowhere to be seen lol.
Because he has shown time and time again to be able to contend with Base Natsu and his Alvarez feats smoke Jellal's lol. Also Base Natsu's feats blows Jellal's feats out the water. Gray was also able to go against a God Seed after getting out of a high diff with Mira. Also was able to solo a bunch of mid tiers (Rajinshuu) with stats alone.