Is anybody saying she couldn’t do any damage? I thought the argument was clearly the buff against Dragon types making her self a slayer gives.To say Erza couldn't hurt Laxus w/o DSeal which grants zero actual buffs is false. Laxus literally dodged Erza's strike while she was in lightning empress which means he knew she could damage him. Laxus fans really be in denial that Erza is equal to Laxus.
@Jko thought u could see thru my trolling with point 1 and 2 i guess not1. Not an excuse since PoF Erza is legit a thing 2. Who is making excuses now...lol (don't really see how you can hold back on throwing swords, but okay), 3. Christina did not knock him out the sky and barely pushed him a few inches. Christina is also a ship his weakness. FT characters already stated it was an impossible task despite Gild being right there as well ergo Erza >>>> Gild while under PoF.
She used a 2DS swords bcs they are stronger than her regular plain old swords. How many times do I have to reiterate this? Lol. He said DS weapon bcs it's a DS weapon.DS magic doesn't have any advantage over humans.
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He got hurt by Cana...
after erza fight with irene. majority people here have agreed that dragons are abnormally weak to ds magic (no other options are possible) only dragon gods or dragons people want to think are stronger are not that weak to ds magic.
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its not cannon man.@Jko thought u could see thru my trolling with point 1 and 2 i guess not
ur not getting the point she had other stronger swords but against 2DS she decided to choose DS weapon obviously she was using that to have an advantage over the DS
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its not erza fault. she has seen laxus from fighting hades to near one shotting ajeel. she just never saw his as this strong. so she held back. also erza didnt want to hurt a friend who she considered alot weaker than herself. the manga showed it as a handicap. after laxus made that statement, the last exchange they both looked equal.If you re-read the fight, the one and only 'disadvantage' that Erza had came as a result of her making the decision to hold back initially because she underestimated how strong Laxus is. Laxus turned out to be far stronger than what she thought, so it proved to be an erroneous decision from Erza. As far as it goes, that was poor judgement from Erza as opposed to an unfair disadvantage that was imposed against her will. You are framing it to look like as though Erza suffered from a handicap that did not allow her to go all out, when the truth is she chose to hold back on her own accord. Never did Laxus depended on an external factor, or relied on a form of deception or trickery to gain an upperhand on Erza in their fight.
Look. There is a good reason why most readers think Laxus is more powerful after reading the fight. Laxus was visibly dominating Erza for a lengthy portion of their fight, to an extent that Erza herself never managed to achieve. In one particularly impressive exchange, Laxus evaded Erza's attack who charged at him with her spear before destroying her lightning empress armour with one hit.
In another, after Erza busted out the Dragon Slayer Seal: True Benizakura, Laxus closed the distance to her in an instant and delivered a punch to her abdomen that sent her flying in the air before hitting the deck.
Then another, Laxus no sold Erza's kick to his face before sending her crashing to the ground and kicking her away.
Those were three instances where Laxus clearly outclassed her, before Erza could inflict even her first attack on Laxus.
Then another exchange where Laxus smashed her down again and destroyed the ground they were standing on.
Read this page at the end of chapter 44 and ask yourself who seems to be having fun with a grin on his face, while who looked to be in difficulty.
It was only until Erza busted out her second power-up with another Enchantment from Wendy, Natsu and Gray did she managed to clash with Laxus on an equal footing. Erza had a double page spreader where she attacked Laxus with her newly acquired powers, yet Laxus remained standing and grinned before quickly counterattacking.
Mashima has a renowned track record of dedicating a double-page spreader to a character's finishing move. Case in point, when Laxus defeated Kyria and Jura with his Metsuryū Ōgi: Narumikazuchi/Secret Art: Roaring Thunder.
On other hand, Laxus did not utilise any of his most devastating spells against Erza. He did not use Roaring Thunder that he defeated Jura and Kyria with. Neither did he use any Secret Art. He did not use the Raikō: Akamikazuchi/Megaton: Red Lightning, the attack that he used to wreck and killed Wall with.
Those are two of his most devastating attacks that he did not utilise in his fight with Erza. He used simply a lightning dragon's roar and a heavenward halberd; two regular moves in his arsenal. Then entered red lightning dragon mode to increase his attributes. Erza busted out the Dragon Slayer Seal: True Benizakura, and the Enchanted twin swords. Even if we were to ignore the portion where Laxus was beating Erza up when she was holding back, Laxus' performance was nonetheless more convincing. Erza's power-up felt forced and contrived. If you read the chapter discussion thread when she suddenly introduced the Enchanted twin swords back then, there were numerous posters claiming BS. There remains a huge question mark if Erza's Enchanted twin blades is freely usable. Can Erza use the DS Seal and those swords with Natsu and Gray's powers single-handedly going forward? Or does she require assistance from Wendy, Natsu and Gray again to re-enchant those swords. If it's the latter, then it is only fair to say that she needs a power-up from external sources that are not within her direct influence to be able to fight on par with Laxus.
Furthermore, Laxus did not once fell throughout the entire fight with Erza. But we saw Erza being sent to eat dirt by Laxus on several occasions. Even the double page spreader with the Enchanted twin swords only made him stagger briefly. That was the most Erza could managed to move Laxus. Towards the end of the fight, Erza fell this time to her knees and prostrate herself in front of Laxus in a submissively prone positionWe could see that she had zero energy left, and was supporting her weight with her arms. During all this time, Laxus was still standing upright whilst engaging in conversation. Truth to be told, had Laxus not fought Kyria beforehand and wasted a chunk of his magic power utilising a DS Secret Art to defeat an opponent whom Erza herself claimed to be formidable, or if he was bloodlusted, it is fully within his capability to go for the decisive blow on an Erza who was completely powerless there and then. However Erza is still one of the main protagonists and Mashima is obviously not going to humiliate her to such an extent. And fact of the matter of is, when Erza was completely out, Laxus was still standing.
Hence, we conclude the following.
The thing that bothers me the most though, is some posters selectively picking what some of the characters said and taking it as gospel to suit their narrative. Despite being proven time and again, that statements made by characters can often be incorrect. On top of that, it was a line by the very character who was directly involved in the fight himself who has shown exactly why his thinking is not correct and hence his statement is not reliable. Let me ask you this. What do you think about the fact that Laxus said he does not possess any strength and proclaimed himself to be a weakling?
- If Erza holds back, she will evidently get dominated and beaten up by Laxus
- Erza needs to go all out to fight on equal footing with Laxus
- Erza needs the DS Seal and Enchanted twin swords to inflict any damage on Laxus
- It remains dubious if Erza could use those powers freely
- Laxus has mastered his red lightning dragon mode and can enter the mode freely without assistance
- Laxus did not use his most powerful spells in his fight with Erza
- Laxus had already used a Secret Art to defeat Kyria beforehand, an opponent whom Erza herself claimed to be formidable
- The moment when Erza fell unconscious, Laxus was still standing on his own two feet
The man is humble and extremely modest. As much as I like him, Laxus' words have been proven to be unreliable. Over the course of the series, there are many other examples of statements being debunked due to wrongful thinking on said characters' part. Hence we should take statements with a pinch of salt. Actions speak louder than words. Given the evidence from the visual depiction of the panels drawn, how the fight actually took place and went down as it progressed, a simple eye test by any reader without an agenda or bias would point to Laxus having the better display of the two.
If the shoe was on the other foot, and Laxus was dominated by Erza for a lengthy portion or he required Enchantments from his team mates to fight on equal footing with Erza, we can bet our house that the Erza supporters would be claiming how those factors show Erza is superior to Laxus. Or better still. If Laxus knelt to Erza and fell unconscious while she was still standing, the Erza supporters would proclaim "There we go! There we have it! I always knew Erza was more powerful of the two!" Don't pretend you wouldn't. We are not fools.
I don't care about what Laxus said, neither do I care about what Erza said about how she will win next time, implying that she lost this time. I don't need to use what they say as evidence to prove my point. I have, and always will, go by feats and illustrations. Erza, with all due respect, is very strong. She is on the same tier as Laxus, However, Laxus have the edge.
I am glad you brought that up
If you are insinuating that the characters regain their magic power when they broke free from Faris' (it's Faris, not Touka btw) Whiteout, it would naturally mean their magic power were being held back while they were under the effects of Whiteout. To how much extent was their magic power being restricted by the effects of the spell, is something that would be interesting to explore. So if Laxus had fought with full access to his magic power, he would have fared even better in his fight with Erza. Regardless, waking up earlier does not mean that the wounds and injuries he sustained in his fight with Erza miraculously healed by themselves. It has been pointed out before that stamina/MP and physical endurance though connected, are still two separate things.
You could a valid point if you claim that Laxus woke up earlier than Erza due to him regaining his lost magic power/stamina after Faris freed him from Whiteout. This however, does not explain how Laxus managed to move around despite those wounds. When Laxus encountered Jellal, the latter made it a point to remark about Laxus' injuries.
Yet not only could he move, he could fight while carrying Erza on his as well. In contrast, Erza struggled to stand after she regain consciousness. She dropped to her knees when she tried to stand, was visibly hurt and shivering.
Laxus could move around and fight despite the wounds he sustained against Erza. Erza could not stand from the wounds he sustained against Laxus. Hence, Laxus has better endurance than Erza.
Yes, Kurumi. There is no buff against Dragon Slayers.
Too tired to compute trolling or sarcasm lol.@Jko thought u could see thru my trolling with point 1 and 2 i guess not
ur not getting the point she had other stronger swords but against 2DS she decided to choose DS weapon obviously she was using that to have an advantage over the DS
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They only search excuses with Erza's dummy power up to put Laxus "stronger" than her. The fact is that Erza had more handicap in the fight. But battle's circumstances are negligeable when they are in Laxus's favor (brainwatched when Erza fought a friend, all enhanced stats by Erza's statements, restore with a chapter on it).Yes, Kurumi. There is no buff against Dragon Slayers.
Too tired to compute trolling or sarcasm lol.
Bcs a Slayer sword > a non slayer sword just like Slayer magic > Non Slayer magic (with their respective element ofc). Gray's ice devil slayer magic did better damage than her DSword lol. DSeal gives no slayer boost, it just lets her enchant DS magic into her weapons to make them stronger.
DS magic has no advantages against Dragon Slayers, only Dragons. DS aren't dragons lol.
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How do you guys come up with DS magic being advantageous over Dragon Slayers who are humans? Are you guys seriously so hellbent on Erza =/= Laxus that you'll make up stuff like DS magic being advantageous against humans? Laxus should have oneshotted Natsu if he had Slayer advantage against him in BoF. Same with Natsu vs Gajeel. Same with Natsu v. the Twins.
Oh is ice devil slayer magic also advantageous over Dragon Slayers since it did the same damage to Laxus as a fire dragon slayer sword?
Dragon Slayer magic is only super effective against actual Dragons. Dragon Slayers are not Dragons unless they go through the process of Dragonification. Here is your resident Dragon Slayer explaining he is human and his imaginary foster dragon daddy agreeing with that sentiment.
What are you talking about? It was established back when Natsu and Gajeel faced Laxus that taking a bunch of Dragon magic was a big feat. An the reveal that Laxus was a DS was the explanation for how he could handle all of it. We have been told over and over that only DS magic works on dragons. There is nothing to suggest DS magic is especially effective? We have an entire manga that has treated Slayers as a specialized type of soldier, that in most cases is expected to win. Erza was quite clear about her intention to use the advantage of her sword against Kiria. She made a point again of using her DS sword and a DS buff to replace the edge against Laxus she expected from her lightning armor. This ain’t just about Laxus vs Erza. It’s been established how well slaying magic works against the target. It’s been bludgeoned into us the entire series.Yes, Kurumi. There is no buff against Dragon Slayers.
Too tired to compute trolling or sarcasm lol.
Bcs a Slayer sword > a non slayer sword just like Slayer magic > Non Slayer magic (with their respective element ofc). Gray's ice devil slayer magic did better damage than her DSword lol. DSeal gives no slayer boost, it just lets her enchant DS magic into her weapons to make them stronger.
DS magic has no advantages against Dragon Slayers, only Dragons. DS aren't dragons lol.
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How do you guys come up with DS magic being advantageous over Dragon Slayers who are humans? Are you guys seriously so hellbent on Erza =/= Laxus that you'll make up stuff like DS magic being advantageous against humans? Laxus should have oneshotted Natsu if he had Slayer advantage against him in BoF. Same with Natsu vs Gajeel. Same with Natsu v. the Twins.
Oh is ice devil slayer magic also advantageous over Dragon Slayers since it did the same damage to Laxus as a fire dragon slayer sword?
Dragon Slayer magic is only super effective against actual Dragons. Dragon Slayers are not Dragons unless they go through the process of Dragonification. Here is your resident Dragon Slayer explaining he is human and his imaginary foster dragon daddy agreeing with that sentiment.
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Yet. You still can’t seem to convince the majority. An it’s no different than your insistence that Erza’s wrongly informed decision to hold back counts as some massive handicap. As opposed to her needing to acknowledge she needed every trick in her toolbox to rock with Laxus in the ring. Everybody has an angle. Hence why nobody is upset you keep reading some tie in between the lines.
Perhaps because it was not reading between the lines when Kyria said the "two monsters beat out each other".
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Agree for gray's enhance stats in Devil Slayer. Still Gray is a bad exemple as his Devil Form enhance his stats while he lost his mental sanity. It's unique Devil Slayer's properties. A two blade weapon. He is like Natsu who enhance his fire magic with his "Flame of Emotion". It's unique Propertie as I can't see Gajeel doing the same.
It's an advantage, what is not is an unfair advantage. Just an "elemental" advantage. A properties advantage.
Exactly.
DS magic only works on Dragons, this was stated over and over again. Slayer magic itself is only advantageous over their respective species. Humans are not Dragons ergo Dragon Slayers are not effected by DS magic more than any other human. There was zero emphasis of this in BoF. It was just shocking Laxus was a DS. Kiria was just used to show off Erza having a new sword. There was nothing about the sword being more effective on Kiria bcs she is a DS. Natsu v. Gajeel had zero emphasis of slayer advantage. You guys are straight up reading fanfiction at this point. No, it was Erza v Laxus that stemmed this, frankly, dumbass theory that DS are advantageous over DS.What are you talking about? It was established back when Natsu and Gajeel faced Laxus that taking a bunch of Dragon magic was a big feat. An the reveal that Laxus was a DS was the explanation for how he could handle all of it. We have been told over and over that only DS magic works on dragons. There is nothing to suggest DS magic is especially effective? We have an entire manga that has treated Slayers as a specialized type of soldier, that in most cases is expected to win. Erza was quite clear about her intention to use the advantage of her sword against Kiria. She made a point again of using her DS sword and a DS buff to replace the edge against Laxus she expected from her lightning armor. This ain’t just about Laxus vs Erza. It’s been established how well slaying magic works against the target. It’s been bludgeoned into us the entire series.
Why now are we suddenly trying to act like DS magic isn’t a boost to stats for whomever we see with it. Hell Gray literally just whooped the Raijin Tribe with only the physical buff slayer magic grants. An there is literally no ability had by other slayers that DS don’t enjoy. Not a single one, so arguing there is no buff... looks real preferential. Your now arguing that Erza recieved absolutely no benefits from the spell and made a point of revealing/relying on it because of what? If she gains no advantage. Why use the DS sword? This is Erza, literal Fairy Queen of dress for the occasion.
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Yet. You still can’t seem to convince the majority. An it’s no different than your insistence that Erza’s wrongly informed decision to hold back counts as some massive handicap. As opposed to her needing to acknowledge she needed every trick in her toolbox to rock with Laxus in the ring. Everybody has an angle. Hence why nobody is upset you keep reading some tie in between the lines.
Lol, I tried not to get involved w/them. And you thought I was a Mira fanboyEmperor99 on CV wildin eh?
I half agree. Yes it demonized Gray's body for an increase in physical stats, exactly like Dragon Force. I also agree that Insanity is a side effect of using Devil Slayer. But when you say it's not equivalent to "Flame of Emotion", I don't know why.
Because they don't work the same way.
Yes, like I said, it's gradually. He can use Devil Slayer while remaining control but not for too long. His Darkness "eats" his soul and heart until making him insane as a result. In that process, Darkness feelings make by Devil Slayer's corruption gradually enhances his MP by feelings, just like Natsu with anger. For me, insanity is the climax's result of this overflow as he can't no longer control it. I can see this Gray (insane) like Natsu in Dragon Force who unleashes his wrath.
Using devil slaying magic doesn't necessarily lead to darkness. The reason why Gray had darkness was because of what happened to Silver, Ur, and Ultear. What ultimately set it off was Juvia's fake death. Devil slaying magic causes insanity, which may have made it more likely to Gray's heart to have darkness when bad stuff happens....but the bad stuff will have to still happen. Also, Darkness is more like POF than flames of emotions. In that it's a source of power that anyone can tap into. Flames of Emotions is an actual property of Natsu's magic. As far as know, it's exclusive to the dragon slaying magic taught by Igneel.
