There are many factors to consider in ranking. Physical and magical power are first to come to mind. The condition or element of the magic plays a big role whether it is so effective that it's considered bs(hax), or if it's ineffective due to the element of magic. An example would be that even though Gajeel is likely physically and magically stronger than Juvia, metal does nothing to water. Ice and fire can stop water. But ice is weaker than metal also. One doesn't always beat them all.
Skills play a very big role also. Lucy is the best example. Lucy has tremendous magic power, having summoned 5 cs at once. In the Tartaros arc she summoned 3, which in wikia that is considered a forbidden technique, becaus it would take a lot of magic to do and would kill the summoner. But she isn't considered near the top because of her soft and clumsy nature and because of her lack of skills. She freaked when Jacob threw a knife at her and didn't have the mental skills to react and counter or dodge.
How much drive and determination is the last piece that gives them that extra boost in evenly matched fights. You know this as nakama or feelings.
How well rounded they are in these aspects should determine their rank. Losing to one person or having difficulty to one does not make them weaker if it's because their magic is ineffective due to immunity against another magic. How well they matchup against everyone overall is what counts.
Hax makes ranking difficult. That's why I never liked it. If there was another Mage with as little mp as Max and could only stop time 10 seconds at a time, that would be enough to chop their heads off. Unless their opponent has a hard shell or armor to make it impossible to damage, or if the opponent is also time Mage. Or if there was some ability where magic has no effect on them, another hax.
I need to disagree. God Serena possesses multiple types of Dragon Slayer Magic while Natsu uses one. The Flame Dragon Spell God Serena used looked as powerful as Natsu's stronger spells. God Serena can use more powerful spells like this with different elements.
Also, I can't see Natsu taking down the Four Gods of Ishgar like God Serena did. Laxus defeated Jura with high diff and he is only the 5th ranked Wizard Saint. Yeah, Laxus became stronger, but so did Jura.
You're not the only one who disagrees I am very much a minorty when it comes to Natsu being around Serena's level. I'm quite fine with people saying God Serena is stronger than Natsu though but I will put my reasons for why I have them as comparable.
I consider Purgatory's Flaming Hell to be very similar to Natsu's FD fist in terms of spells. They are prepared almost identically. The blasts are different in shape, but the size of them is still something we can compare.
Based on those I have Natsu's as stronger, based purely on size. With FDK spells, assuming they are under his power, Natsu is stronger by more again.
Where I give God Serena credit is like you say 8 elements + resistance. God Serena also used those spells very quickly which allow him to bridge the gap or perhaps give Serena the edge. Serena also didn't get the chance to show more stuff like better slayer spells. You do have a point that Serena has defeated quality opposition, though Natsu did defeat someone arguably as strong as Jura with a oneshot (Jura and Bluenote were on the same level before the timeskip).
You're not the only one who disagrees I am very much a minorty when it comes to Natsu being around Serena's level. I'm quite fine with people saying God Serena is stronger than Natsu though but I will put my reasons for why I have them as comparable.
I consider Purgatory's Flaming Hell to be very similar to Natsu's FD fist in terms of spells. They are prepared almost identically. The blasts are different in shape, but the size of them is still something we can compare.
Based on those I have Natsu's as stronger, based purely on size. With FDK spells, assuming they are under his power, Natsu is stronger by more again.
Where I give God Serena credit is like you say 8 elements + resistance. God Serena also used those spells very quickly which allow him to bridge the gap or perhaps give Serena the edge. Serena also didn't get the chance to show more stuff like better slayer spells. You do have a point that Serena has defeated quality opposition, though Natsu did defeat someone arguably as strong as Jura with a oneshot (Jura and Bluenote were on the same level before the timeskip).
True Brandish I also Consider Natsu to be Stronger Than God Serena.In fact We see after attacking GOI and Jura They were still alive.Natsu's Attacks were devastating.He has DF now.Now What God Serena has is Elemental Resistance.
Why does everyone suddenly think Erza is weaker than Natsu? Until now, Mashima has maintained the relative power rankings within the guild except downgrading Makarov. For the active young group, i think he will maintain their relative positions. Eventually of course Natsu will surpass everyone but that would closer to the end of the manga.
Erza, however, comes out in poor light in her fight against Azeel. SHe was constantly one-upped by him; also after a year gap, she showed no new powers, no new armours. I really hope she redeems herself against Neinhart. o/w the opinions about her falling behind Natsu may really come true.
You're not the only one who disagrees I am very much a minorty when it comes to Natsu being around Serena's level. I'm quite fine with people saying God Serena is stronger than Natsu though but I will put my reasons for why I have them as comparable.
I consider Purgatory's Flaming Hell to be very similar to Natsu's FD fist in terms of spells. They are prepared almost identically. The blasts are different in shape, but the size of them is still something we can compare.
Based on those I have Natsu's as stronger, based purely on size. With FDK spells, assuming they are under his power, Natsu is stronger by more again.
Where I give God Serena credit is like you say 8 elements + resistance. God Serena also used those spells very quickly which allow him to bridge the gap or perhaps give Serena the edge. Serena also didn't get the chance to show more stuff like better slayer spells. You do have a point that Serena has defeated quality opposition, though Natsu did defeat someone arguably as strong as Jura with a oneshot (Jura and Bluenote were on the same level before the timeskip).
Both Serena and Natsu have fought opponents very weak compared to them, but still very strong compared to previous arcs. Natsu fought Bakel fighting around 10% if it really is the same as Gejeel. Although Natsu got competitive and said he was at 0.1%. Gajeel tells him "But didn't you have a hard time?" The fact that Bakel got Natsu a bit tired and dirty shows he is at least stronger than Bluenote.
I would guess that the 4 wizard saints are each at least as strong as Bakel. Serena took them down with ease. He did get hurt a little when they all made a team attack and fell on his head, but he shook it off easily. Used his full power or got serious, but didn't show all his abilities. Gauging it by their fights I'd have to say Serena is still stronger. I've said before that Serena isn't anything special because at that time many were expecting him to go toe to toe with Acnologia. But when compared to Natsu, Serena is stronger based on their fights.
Those fire attacks are very similar and I'd doubt if Serena is stronger than Natsu, it isn't by too much. Natsu's attack smashes through with destructive power. Serena's fire dsm was in the shape of a ball that doesnt spread like Natsu's. Serena's dsm seems to be crappier versions of the real ds. Cavern attacks only destroy the earth. He didn't make earth to attack. He attacked the earth to keep them off balance. Plus Gajeel's metal is stronger than other types of earth like dirt and rocks. If Natsu and Serena had the same amount of magic power it's likey Natsu's Fire dsm would be better than Serena's. But in total magic power I'd give it to Serena due to how he finished the ws without tiring or out of breath and no visible damage or injury. Natsu did get dirty and a bit tired. But if the manga ends here, Natsu will be extremely powerful because of dragonforce. Until now Gray has been relevant and has been equally as strong as Natsu, getting his dad's magic, probably for a fight with END. So Natsu will likey break the chains that connect his life to Zeref and END. There's no way that book of END is meant to stay that way with END never being released. It will happen.
btw that new avatar is intimidating. Although the more I look at it it's as if her eyes look sad and dead, like she lost her soul. So different from the mellow eyes from the last one.
Just my opinion, the Gildarts discussion will go on till he appears or not.
Edit: I know Gildarts has a lot of hype, and maybe I see him way too strong but I think a lot of ppl. see him too weak cause of the time skip and the Bluenote vs. Natsu fight. But Gildarts is still someone who can destroy any kind of magic, on the other side August is a Mage who can use almost every magic. So this will be the fight we will see soon I think.
Both Serena and Natsu have fought opponents very weak compared to them, but still very strong compared to previous arcs. Natsu fought Bakel fighting around 10% if it really is the same as Gejeel. Although Natsu got competitive and said he was at 0.1%. Gajeel tells him "But didn't you have a hard time?" The fact that Bakel got Natsu a bit tired and dirty shows he is at least stronger than Bluenote.
I would guess that the 4 wizard saints are each at least as strong as Bakel. Serena took them down with ease. He did get hurt a little when they all made a team attack and fell on his head, but he shook it off easily. Used his full power or got serious, but didn't show all his abilities. Gauging it by their fights I'd have to say Serena is still stronger. I've said before that Serena isn't anything special because at that time many were expecting him to go toe to toe with Acnologia. But when compared to Natsu, Serena is stronger based on their fights.
Those fire attacks are very similar and I'd doubt if Serena is stronger than Natsu, it isn't by too much. Natsu's attack smashes through with destructive power. Serena's fire dsm was in the shape of a ball that doesnt spread like Natsu's. Serena's dsm seems to be crappier versions of the real ds. Cavern attacks only destroy the earth. He didn't make earth to attack. He attacked the earth to keep them off balance. Plus Gajeel's metal is stronger than other types of earth like dirt and rocks. If Natsu and Serena had the same amount of magic power it's likey Natsu's Fire dsm would be better than Serena's. But in total magic power I'd give it to Serena due to how he finished the ws without tiring or out of breath and no visible damage or injury. Natsu did get dirty and a bit tired. But if the manga ends here, Natsu will be extremely powerful because of dragonforce. Until now Gray has been relevant and has been equally as strong as Natsu, getting his dad's magic, probably for a fight with END. So Natsu will likey break the chains that connect his life to Zeref and END. There's no way that book of END is meant to stay that way with END never being released. It will happen.
btw that new avatar is intimidating. Although the more I look at it it's as if her eyes look sad and dead, like she lost her soul. So different from the mellow eyes from the last one.
To be fair to Natsu v Bakel you don't see him using anything close to the roar he used on Bluenote. Like you said he/Gajeel were not really trying that hard.
I am making assumptions that God Serena's move is more or less the same technique as Natsu's. They could be different. When Jura asks 'is this earth DS magic?' August does reply 'not quite'. So Serena's DS magic might not truly be the same as elemental DS magic, or not as powerful as elemental DS magic. Anyway, I was just putting forward a reason why Natsu's spells pack more power and thus why I rate him up there with Spriggans. I am giving Natsu the benefit of the doubt when it comes to other things like endurance, durability, speed etc - because he hasn't shown anything big yet in these things despite rating strongly pre-skip. After his fight with Jacob we'll have a better idea where he stands compared to Erza and Laxus - the only 2 people who've really fought.
I think Natsu has surpassed Erza for the following reasons:
1. She was intimidated by Ikusatsunagi's magic power... Some people say this means nothing but I for one think it does... She didn't even fly up to give Natsu a hand...
2. After Natsu demolished Ikusatsunagi, her statement that Natsu has gotten strong I think means a lot more than just what it's face value would indicate...
3. What feats of Erza's put her at or above Natsu in X792 exactly...? Natsu has wrecked two hills, unleashed a small mountain sized explosions, a city level roar, defeated a mid-tier wizard saint level combatant...
4. Based on statements uttered by Gray and Erza during their encounter with Brandish (they were pretty much scared shitless by the fact that she's more powerful than Makarov), I doubt she's reached even mid-tier wizard saint level and Natsu defeated one of those...
She Said in The Phantom Lord Arc Natsu would one day surpass him.That Day has Come.
She Struggled against Ajeel The Weakest Spriggan Revealed Until Now.While Natsu had casually burnt The Ant Pit which Requires 3000 °C as @Decent Fury Said.Erza couldn't do anything There.
Just my opinion, the Gildarts discussion will go on till he appears or not.
Edit: I know Gildarts has a lot of hype, and maybe I see him way too strong but I think a lot of ppl. see him too weak cause of the time skip and the Bluenote vs. Natsu fight. But Gildarts is still someone who can destroy any kind of magic, on the other side August is a Mage who can use almost every magic. So this will be the fight we will see soon I think.
You make a point about Gildarts magic being quite handy against basically anything. But it wouldn't exactly surprise me if August can use Crash too. Or something that can counter Crash effectively. It'll probably come down to how powerful Gildarts comes back as. If he's roughly August level then he should be able to fight evenly. He's also very tough physically.
So, the correct thing is, east one million army does exist or not? I am getting confused.
I at first thought that the only one million army was along with Zeref and Invel. Because as I recall it's never stated in manga that there is east one million army. They also didn't show themselves together with August, Serena, and Jacob unlike south and north soldiers, when GoI attempted to stop them. North and south soldiers were clearly shown fighting against Blue Pegasus, Sabertooth, Mermaid Heel, and Lamia Scale wizards. Crunchyroll version stated that Jacob doesn't have troops or any underlings. I wonder where wikia got the source from. However if August/Serena/Jacob team did destroy Bosco, a country, by themselves, this team is really really monster.
Finally my comment on Gildarts. I still hope he still holds all of his hypes and title Mashima has hyped. Last fight he had was against Bluenote. That was even because Azuma cut Sirius tree down and as a result Gildarts was one step left behind Bluenote. After Ultear brought Sirius tree back, he regained his power. He practically one-shotted Bluenote. Bluenote was nothing to him. I hope in this arc he will make appearance, which will be much help for Fairy Tail.
So, the correct thing is, east one million army does exist or not? I am getting confused.
I at first thought that the only one million army was along with Zeref and Invel. Because as I recall it's never stated in manga that there is east one million army. They also didn't show themselves together with August, Serena, and Jacob unlike south and north soldiers, when GoI attempted to stop them. North and south soldiers were clearly shown fighting against Blue Pegasus, Sabertooth, Mermaid Heel, and Lamia Scale wizards. Crunchyroll version stated that Jacob doesn't have troops or any underlings. I wonder where wikia got the source from. However if August/Serena/Jacob team did destroy Bosco, a country, by themselves, this team is really really monster.
Finally my comment on Gildarts. I still hope he still holds all of his hypes and title Mashima has hyped. Last fight he had was against Bluenote. That was even because Azuma cut Sirius tree down and as a result Gildarts was one step left behind Bluenote. After Ultear brought Sirius tree back, he regained his power. He practically one-shotted Bluenote. Bluenote was nothing to him. I hope in this arc he will make appearance, which will be much help for Fairy Tail.
To be fair to Natsu v Bakel you don't see him using anything close to the roar he used on Bluenote. Like you said he/Gajeel were not really trying that hard.
I am making assumptions that God Serena's move is more or less the same technique as Natsu's. They could be different. When Jura asks 'is this earth DS magic?' August does reply 'not quite'. So Serena's DS magic might not truly be the same as elemental DS magic, or not as powerful as elemental DS magic. Anyway, I was just putting forward a reason why Natsu's spells pack more power and thus why I rate him up there with Spriggans. I am giving Natsu the benefit of the doubt when it comes to other things like endurance, durability, speed etc - because he hasn't shown anything big yet in these things despite rating strongly pre-skip. After his fight with Jacob we'll have a better idea where he stands compared to Erza and Laxus - the only 2 people who've really fought.
Natsu wasn't trying hard, but neither was Serena, until the end. Plus how much energy they both exerted isn't known due to most of it being off panel. That's something no one will find out if Serena is really dead.
tbo I thought Natsu's attack on Bluenote came from his fist, not dragon roar. lol So that's why the screen before Natsu had his mouth wide open. Thought it was because he was shouting. It was as if Natsu didn't feel the gravity, but I'm guessing he did because he used fire on the ground to propel him to jump.
I think Natsu has surpassed Erza for the following reasons:
1. She was intimidated by Ikusatsunagi's magic power... Some people say this means nothing but I for one think it does... She didn't even fly up to give Natsu a hand...
2. After Natsu demolished Ikusatsunagi, her statement that Natsu has gotten strong I think means a lot more than just what it's face value would indicate...
3. What feats of Erza's put her at or above Natsu in X792 exactly...? Natsu has wrecked two hills, unleashed a small mountain sized explosions, a city level roar, defeated a mid-tier wizard saint level combatant...
4. Based on statements uttered by Gray and Erza during their encounter with Brandish (they were pretty much scared shitless by the fact that she's more powerful than Makarov), I doubt she's reached even mid-tier wizard saint level and Natsu defeated one of those...
She Said in The Phantom Lord Arc Natsu would one day surpass him.That Day has Come.
She Struggled against Ajeel The Weakest Spriggan Revealed Until Now.While Natsu had casually burnt The Ant Pit which Requires 3000 °C as @Decent Fury Said.Erza couldn't do anything There.
1. Nothing showed Erza was intimidated. Natsu was the one beat Ikusasunagi because he was standing right next to Arlock, who summoned it.
2. Or it could mean as much as Erza's (false) statement in Phantom Lord Arc that Natsu was close to her level.
3. Oh, you know, beating a person hyped to be on par with the number 1 Wizard Saint. Mid-tier Wizard Saint = fodder at this point. And Bluenote is closer to low-tier Wizard Saint, like Jose, TOH Jellal, and Zero.
4. Natsu was scared by MP alone to the point that he grabbed his tattooed arm against both Brandish and Ajeel. Erza showed she was mid-tier Wizard Saint level by GMG arc. And repeatedly saying that Ajeel is the weakest Spriggan doesn't make it true. Erza not being able to do anything against Ant Pit is false especially when she has wind armor able to blow away Ajeel's sand and actually beat Ajeel.
So, the correct thing is, east one million army does exist or not? I am getting confused.
I at first thought that the only one million army was along with Zeref and Invel. Because as I recall it's never stated in manga that there is east one million army. They also didn't show themselves together with August, Serena, and Jacob unlike south and north soldiers, when GoI attempted to stop them. North and south soldiers were clearly shown fighting against Blue Pegasus, Sabertooth, Mermaid Heel, and Lamia Scale wizards. Crunchyroll version stated that Jacob doesn't have troops or any underlings. I wonder where wikia got the source from. However if August/Serena/Jacob team did destroy Bosco, a country, by themselves, this team is really really monster.
Finally my comment on Gildarts. I still hope he still holds all of his hypes and title Mashima has hyped. Last fight he had was against Bluenote. That was even because Azuma cut Sirius tree down and as a result Gildarts was one step left behind Bluenote. After Ultear brought Sirius tree back, he regained his power. He practically one-shotted Bluenote. Bluenote was nothing to him. I hope in this arc he will make appearance, which will be much help for Fairy Tail.
I'd say the east army of one million soldiers doesn't exist. The east's supposed army of one million was mentioned once, just once in Chapter 455. The rest of the time the only time we've heard about an army of one million has been the one under Zeref and Invel, who are to the west. I'm putting it down to Hiro either stuffing up his directions, or scrapping that army for whatever reason because really you'd think if they had another army of one million, they'd bring it to get Fairy Heart. Also discrediting there being an east army is Jacob in 477 saying they had no soldiers with them, so to me its pretty clear there isn't an army to the east.
As for my current views on Gildarts, he'll still be on the same level of power because lets face it, he's probably hit his prime and there isn't much room for him to get any stronger. We haven't seen that much of him fighting at all tbh, only against Bluenote who Natsu has also one-shotted in an arguably easier fashion, which puts Natsu > Gildarts if you compare them from their fights with Bluenote and assume Bluenote could've possible gotten a bit stronger in the 8 years we hadn't seen him. He could play a part in this arc, but I wouldn't expect him to be incredibly impressive against the Spriggan seeing Laxus and Natsu would've well and truly caught up to him by now.
At what point did the others surpass Erza? After the 7 year skip, Lyon was following Gray and Juvia. They fought together, and Lyon was lecturing Gray on every little thing. They both seemed about the same strength, except that Gray needed to catch up a bit. Gray and Juvia did beat Lyon and Chelia during the gmg because Lyon did not want to hurt Juvia, plus he kept on arguing with Chelia, which made it easy for ft mages to set up a big attack. That too proves Lyon and Gray are about the same strength. Natsu and Gray are in the same tier, and are as equal as it can get. Lyon and Gajeel are in their tier also, but just a hair behind. It would take Gray and Natsu everything they got and a bit extra, but could beat their ice or ds rivals.
So back to the point. Lyon gets whooped by Kagura and gets saved by the time limit during the gmg. Erza is in the same league as Kagura. Lyon is the same as Natsu, Gray, and Gajeel. Therefore Erza was still superior. What has you believing Natsu and the other ds have surpassed Erza in the Tartaros arc or the next time skip going into the avatar and Alvarez arcs. Erza had no problems with Kyoka, until that bs ability was used where Erza's senses were taken away, plus pain receptors were at maximum. The true strength of Erza is her mental and emotional fortitude. Nothing breaks her will to do what she wants. Having superior physical power and durability to match her unbreakable will.
Natsu is the mc, and will be the strongest but hasn't proven to be at the top yet. But when he is in dragonforce no one can touch him. Gray might match him if he's on his his demonforce. Only Acno and Zeref are far stronger than his half dragonforce transformation so far.
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Agreed. He comes in claps his hands and everyone is sent somewhere. He can sense Mavis. That's all that he's done so far. The rest is just intimidating talk. Plus wherever he sent ft guild members shouldn't be a problem. Cana and Mest were there. Cana can put them all in cards except Mest so that Mest can teleport them all back. Unless it's in a different dimension. But I'm having a hard time believing he moves as fast or has destructive power like the other spriggan. He's definitely not dressed to move fast. Throwing regular knives only to be melted when making contact with Natsu. It's just the beginning and I'm also not impressed from the impression he gave.
The time skip did nothing for Erza in strength. She came back the same as she did prior to the skip. Then beat Kagura and Minerva. How you come up with this stuff that Natsu reached Erza's level in the phantom arc is ridiculous. Even in the short fight Erza had with Laxus after the phantom arc, it wasn't one sided like Natsu was getting toyed with by Laxus. Erza was going toe to toe with Laxus. Df Natsu is a different story. I explained very well in the comment before this that Erza and the Tenrou team came back from the 7 year skip the exact same, thereby making Bacchus still relevant.
Max was not on the same level as Natsu. When Natsu got serious Max shit his pants and gave up. Being able to put up a fight not making it one sided, does not make one in the same level. No way Max was on the same level.
How many different arguments did you start which rooted from Bacchus? You said Sting one shot him. I said it was off guard. Same way Mira was caught off guard and was beaten by Elfman, even though she made Elfman look weak before getting caught off guard. Erza comes back after 7 years with no change. Goes into the games. In episode 161 she is surprised and talks about Bacchus getting stronger after he smashed the chariots in one stomp. In 162 Erza explains in detail about his strength and says he gets much stronger when he drinks. Listen to the commentary. Gray, Mira and Erza are surprised by his abilities. Gray acknowledging that he sees why Bacchus was difficult for Erza, but Erza explained that he is nowhere near his full strength because he didn't even drink yet. When he did drink, he passes Elfman with great speed, landing 7 hits in an instant shocking Erza. Erza impressed saying he got even stronger. The same way Erza was impressed by how Kagura smashed Yukino's celestial spirits with her sword still sheathed. Elfman's lizard armor was said to be very effective against mages using hand to hand combat. But I also said Bacchus wasn't exactly in any desperate situation to begin with, as there was no scalely armor around the center of his body. Stop running away from the subject.
The time skip did nothing for Erza in strength. She came back the same as she did prior to the skip. Then beat Kagura and Minerva. How you come up with this stuff that Natsu reached Erza's level in the phantom arc is ridiculous. Even in the short fight Erza had with Laxus after the phantom arc, it wasn't one sided like Natsu was getting toyed with by Laxus. Erza was going toe to toe with Laxus. Df Natsu is a different story. I explained very well in the comment before this that Erza and the Tenrou team came back from the 7 year skip the exact same, thereby making Bacchus still relevant.
Max was not on the same level as Natsu. When Natsu got serious Max shit his pants and gave up. Being able to put up a fight not making it one sided, does not make one in the same level. No way Max was on the same level.
How many different arguments did you start which rooted from Bacchus? You said Sting one shot him. I said it was off guard. Same way Mira was caught off guard and was beaten by Elfman, even though she made Elfman look weak before getting caught off guard. Erza comes back after 7 years with no change. Goes into the games. In episode 161 she is surprised and talks about Bacchus getting stronger after he smashed the chariots in one stomp. In 162 Erza explains in detail about his strength and says he gets much stronger when he drinks. Listen to the commentary. Gray, Mira and Erza are surprised by his abilities. Gray acknowledging that he sees why Bacchus was difficult for Erza, but Erza explained that he is nowhere near his full strength because he didn't even drink yet. When he did drink, he passes Elfman with great speed, landing 7 hits in an instant shocking Erza. Erza impressed saying he got even stronger. The same way Erza was impressed by how Kagura smashed Yukino's celestial spirits with her sword still sheathed. Elfman's lizard armor was said to be very effective against mages using hand to hand combat. But I also said Bacchus wasn't exactly in any desperate situation to begin with, as there was no scalely armor around the center of his body. Stop running away from the subject.
Let's break this down. You said sting one shot Bacchus. I explained how he was caught off guard, using Mira as an example because she was making easy work of Elfman and Evergreen. Elfman's punch was easily stopped with Mira's hand. She was smiling and relaxed while doing it. Then she gets caught off guard and loses. That is one example of a Mage who is without a doubt very strong, and shows how weaker mages can beat them when off guard.
You talk trash about Erza to reduce the credit Bacchus deserves because they fought many times with no winner. Even though Bacchus fell from exhaustion against Elman, he was making it as easy as Mira did. He chose to see if he could break Elfman's lizard armor and didn't hit the weak spots. Why he did this is because he wanted to make it a challenge where it wouldn't be so one sided. After a fight like that do you think Elfman could beat Bacchus ever again? Bacchus showed he has great skills and if he was dead serious about winning he'd have won easily and quickly. You know that. The one and only feat Bacchus had was never losing to Erza. Erza came back from the skip no different from before the skip, which made Bacchus relevant. She was impressed and stunned the same way when she watched Kagura for the first time in the gmg. The only feats Kagura has is beating Yukino with ease, fighting Erza both giving their all ending in a loss, while Erza continued to fight Dimaria. Having a draw with Lyon thanks to the time limit stopping her from finishing him off. She was beating the crap out of Lyon. You wouldn't call that an even fight based on what you saw regardless of results. I said where Lyon was in ranking in the comment before this one, which is the same as Gray Natsu and Gageel.
You don't think Kagura is inferior from the second skip. All that she has done is block one of Dimaria's sword swings and one shot one of Neinhart's soldiers along with Erza, and Jellal took out two. The one thing Erza couldn't do was beat Bacchus with the many opportunities she had. I do believe Erza is stronger than he is. The point why I said this in the first place was to say Don't let Bacchus's foolish playing with Elfman or the times he got caught off guard be a reason to doubt him. One thing for sure is he has fighting skills due to his martial arts. His skills are top of the line. Unless Mashima decides that Bacchus doesn't get any stronger since the gmg we won't know until he fights. There are still many spriggan and not enough strong Ishgar mages, so there are chances for him to show his stuff. And the last time I checked only dark guild mages fall behind in strength. Plus old ones too. Jura was like a brick wall with great potential when he first showed up in the Oracion seis arc. Since then his progress hasn't been impressive after having 7 year plus being older than Laxus even before the skip. And still lost. If the story continues the way it's going Bacchus should still be up there with the other s class mages.
I'd actually like to see all s class mages team up for a big job.
S Class Ranking
1) Laxus Gildarts Jellal
2) Erza Mira Kagura Bacchus
Only Laxus and Erza fought so far so the others are just guessing. Brandish made a good point of how Natsu gave a serious dragon roar to one shot Bluenote. And I still believe Gildarts was pissed but wasn't pushed to go hard on Bluenote. Same thing happened. Gildarts didn't feel the gravity magic. His physical strength shouldn't be doubted seeing as how he easily beat Byro and also sent Bluenote flying also. When he punch Buenote to send him flying the clouds separated and the rain stopped. That didn't look like his final move either. Not like he fell on his ass after the fight or anything like that. Until he releases the amount of magic power he released when scaring Natsu I'm not convinced he gave anywhere near his best. Even though he is missing an arm, leg and probably just a kidney, that guy has been strong.
Just my opinion, the Gildarts discussion will go on till he appears or not.
Edit: I know Gildarts has a lot of hype, and maybe I see him way too strong but I think a lot of ppl. see him too weak cause of the time skip and the Bluenote vs. Natsu fight. But Gildarts is still someone who can destroy any kind of magic, on the other side August is a Mage who can use almost every magic. So this will be the fight we will see soon I think.
Knowing many types can be of advantageous due the flexibility it provides, so August may have an upper hand. There must be some magic to which crash is weak. For instance, all magic is weak against Byro's nullifier. It will be interesting fight, if it indeed happens.
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Jacob's entry is reminiscent of Jackal's entry with a bang in the councilman's house. At that point he was the guy who had blown up the entire council. Turns out he wasn't all that strong. Maybe Jacob meets a similar fate. There maybe more fights waiting for Natsu with other Spriggans, and this may just be a warmup. Infact, Lucy ultimately defeated Jackal.So....
Is there a pattern here?
