FIrst thing, Natsulucy's and your response loaded after I had posted and then I re-edited some. So, sorry if that annoyed you.
Presence I said, about Aria during the PLord fight not tenrou. After he suddenly stood behind Makarov, where did he come from, this guy has no "kehai" which I translate as presence.
ANd we are quibbling over Mira. Yes she said she had lost, and yes, there is another scene; where both Elfman and Ever come and report we have defeated Mira. Everyone is shocked and ask how. At that Elfman says he can't reveal it as a man and Ever says "we managed to find a momentary opening and slipped through". But I think we agree in substance what happened b/w Mira and those two.
As i said, Bacchus may be stronger than Elfman. And, that victory was imo more about FT has to win than anything else.
No problem. In mangapanda chapter 203 page 7 Makarov made it clear that the rules were if there was an s class Mage there, they cannot proceed unless they defeat them. Evergreen did not want to say what they did to get that opening to beat Mira, not because they ran past her, which wouldn't have qualified them to pass. She was beaten. She had a patch on her face later to show that she got hit off guard. She said so herself. That first exam did not allow them to get to the other side without fighting.
No problem. In mangapanda chapter 203 page 7 Makarov made it clear that the rules were if there was an s class Mage there, they cannot proceed unless they defeat them. Evergreen did not want to say what they did to get that opening to beat Mira, not because they ran past her, which wouldn't have qualified them to pass. She was beaten. She had a patch on her face later to show that she got hit off guard. She said so herself. That first exam did not allow them to get to the other side without fighting.
No problem. In mangapanda chapter 203 page 7 Makarov made it clear that the rules were if there was an s class Mage there, they cannot proceed unless they defeat them. Evergreen did not want to say what they did to get that opening to beat Mira, not because they ran past her, which wouldn't have qualified them to pass. She was beaten. She had a patch on her face later to show that she got hit off guard. She said so herself. That first exam did not allow them to get to the other side without fighting.
Yes, those are official rules. Of course he isn't going to say, "guys its ok, they will go easy on you!" Are u saying Natsu defeated Gildartz?
Its quite well understood that S-class are supposed to go easy on the examinees. When asked what happened to Lissana and Juvia, Makarov says they came across the female knight who does not know how to go easy on anyone. (chap 207, pg 15) That means there is an expectation that examiners will go easy on the kids. O/w no one will ever become S-class. Evergreen didn't want to say because of the embarrassing way they won. They caught her off guard with that news and landed an attack on her in that moment and ran. Now you may call that a victory, I call that, "they managed to get past her."
Yes, those are official rules. Of course he isn't going to say, "guys its ok, they will go easy on you!" Are u saying Natsu defeated Gildartz?
Its quite well understood that S-class are supposed to go easy on the examinees. When asked what happened to Lissana and Juvia, Makarov says they came across the female knight who does not know how to go easy on anyone. (chap 207, pg 15) That means there is an expectation that examiners will go easy on the kids. O/w no one will ever become S-class. Evergreen didn't want to say because of the embarrassing way they won. They caught her off guard with that news and landed an attack on her in that moment and ran. Now you may call that a victory, I call that, "they managed to get past her."
Gildarts said to Natsu that as an examiner he is to test their strength and determine if he passes or not. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to pass against Gilarts. Erza didn't go easy on Juvia and Lisanna because she acknowledged she isn't as strong as Gilarts long ago, and believes two of them should be able to beat her, or at least put up a better fight.
It's quite obvious Elfman and Evergreen were embarrassed to say what happened. Again that exam was not a test if they can make it to the exit dodging the s class Mage. It was made clear that they cannot leave the cave until they've defeated the exam tester or was given permission to move on. This is really not debatable. It's simply what happened. We aren't trying to calculate or determine why someone is stronger than the other. It's that simple. They defeated her. Hit and run does not allow them to pass. They had to either defeat the examiner or prove their strength which the examiner determines if they are worthy or not. It has nothing to do, and is not allowed to make it to the exit. That was not the goal needed to accomplish to pass.
Well you are saying two things. In the context of Tenrou
"an examiner.... is to test their strength and determine if he passes or not."
"Makarov made it clear that the rules were if there was an s class Mage there, they cannot proceed unless they defeat them."
Then you are equating the two and saying according to Makarov and hence according to you, if an examiner depermines someone worthy of passing that means the examiner has accepted defeat. If we accept that, the definition of defeat becomes subjective. It varies from person to person. So, in case of Erza, defeating means "two of them should be able to beat her, or at least put up a better fight."(that also implies beating someone is different from defeating someone!) In case of GIldartz, "he is to test their strength and determine if he passes or not." and since he finds them worthy that means he accepted defeat.
However, in the discussion in these forums, we are using the victory, winning or defeating, beating to rank the fighters according to their strength, and as such must have an objective definition. One common definition that applies to all situations. In a fight, if one person subjugates the other by his own strength, by use of force, under fairly similar conditions, where one party is not handicapped for some external reason, we call that winning,victory for the subjugator and defeated, beaten e.t.c for the subjugated. O/w using the words to rank fighters won't have any meaning at all. By that criteria, Aria cannot be said to have defeated Makarov or Mira can't be said to have been defeated by Elfman and Ever. If someone manages to find a clever way to create an opening and lands an attack on the enemy, a condition which can't be repeated if they fight again, it can not be said that they were able to defeat their enemy, because then all other things we consider like MP, magic type,e.t.c becomes useless, because anyone can win against anyone by coincidence.
You are free to read or watch what happened. I have no need to summarize the story. Don't know why your making such a fuss about it. There is no need to break it down. You know what I mean if you remember the arc.
The second paragraph is very true. I watched the anime and stated that Sting and Ichiya caught Bacchus off guard. When I was told that there was nothing off guard in the manga I confirmed it straight away. After that I did not make excuses that Bacchus took Ichiya lightly or Ichiya in that form is super strong. Getting caught off guard is not always attacks from behind. Let's say Mira flashed her goods at Laxus, he gets caught off guard and Mira could hit him and knock him out. That's what happened to Mira when she got freaked that Elfman and Evergreen said they were getting married. Those tricks don't work more than once. I admitted that Ichiya's win over Bacchus was legit, due to the manga and anime being different. So I don't rank him as strong as Erza in the gmg. But what you say is true that if they can't be beaten again by the same guy that doesn't really count. If Sting fight Bacchus face to face and not while Bacchus was busy fighting others I'm not sure how the outcome would be. If Bacchus now knows how strong Ichiya is I doubt that would happen again. If Bacchus did not see Elfman as a joke, he wouldn't have hit Elfman either, or target one spot on his body to break an opening. Elfman's scalely armor was breaking and flying all over the place. Why do you think his takeover disappeared or why he had full body bandages? It wasn't just prior to the lizard armor. You make great excuses for Makarov because not only do we know he is better than Aria, but he smashed Aria when he tried to sneak up behind him again. That is very true and an excuse that is legitimate. Anyone knows that Bacchus would not lose to Elfman a second time, and that Bacchus is stronger than more mages than Elfman is. Facts before feelings.
I don't know why you ever thought Bacchus is strong. He never showed any remarkable feats. We only have Erza overhyping him and we know overhyping is a constantly occuring thing in this manga not to be counted as evidence. Well sometimes yes but most of the time no. For me he was about the same level as Elfman in the games.
I don't know why you ever thought Bacchus is strong. He never showed any remarkable feats. We only have Erza overhyping him and we know overhyping is a constantly occuring thing in this manga not to be counted as evidence. Well sometimes yes but most of the time no. For me he was about the same level as Elfman in the games.
There's a difference when someone says they are strong, and when someone says we fought many times and I couldn't beat him once. The gmg wasn't a test if everyone could beat ft. It was to see if ft could get stronger and catch up to their rivals that got stronger in the seven years that Tenrou team did not. I really don't how you can even call that a victory. Elfman couldn't hit him once. Elfman was getting knocked on his ass and face. Bacchus showed he is faster and smarter. He did not have to hit Elfman until he got tired. He didn't try to break just one spot in his lizard armor. Instead be smashed Elfman even with Lizard armor to the point that Elfman lost his takeover and fell on his knees. With the strength they both demonstrated it's clear who put more effort and wanted to win more. The other guy just wanted to have fun and test his strength on a hard punching bag. If you can't see past that, that's your problem. Same as Kagura fighting Lyon. Are you gonna say it was a draw because they were evenly matched? smh
Bacchus was smart? where did you get that from. It is okay to say he was stronger than Elfman. I just said he looked about the same level to me. Maybe slightly stronger.
And no, Bacchus tired himself, injured his hands and iirc fainted (I don't know how is that possible BTW when he injured his hands only). While Kagura didn't fight seriously and drawed only due to the time limit.
Elfman won because he uses a Take Over which is Bacchus weakness. Bacchus would own any other Elfman tier. It's also stated in the manga/anime that he is more or less equal with Erza.
Bacchus was smart? where did you get that from. It is okay to say he was stronger than Elfman. I just said he looked about the same level to me. Maybe slightly stronger.
And no, Bacchus tired himself, injured his hands and iirc fainted (I don't know how is that possible BTW when he injured his hands only). While Kagura didn't fight seriously and drawed only due to the time limit.
Bacchus is a smart fighter. That's why he has mad defensive skills and can't be touched. His offense is unreadable, can't be predicted. Defeating an enemy from doing nothing is hardly any feat for Elfman. The only thing Elfman proved is that he can take a beating. Bacchus proved that he could break lizard scales, because he did. You could clearly see his scales flying all over the place, along with Bacchus armor. Against anyone who doesn't fight with their hands only, Elfman is useless. Winning a match without dealing any damage and unable to touch his opponent is nothing to brag about. If Bacchus didn't want to hit his lizard armor he didn't have to the same way Elfman gave up trying to hit him. Plus if he wanted he could have focused his attacks on one spot until he broke an opening in the armor. Instead he beat the shit out of Elfman and lost because he got tired.
OK he is stronger than Elfman in the games. But no way he is Erza's equal just because she said so (maybe she just didn't fight well in her mentioned fights). The same Erza saying Natsu is stronger than her in the beginning (or whatever similar she said). Makarov said Jura could be a good match with Gildarts, etc...
OK he is stronger than Elfman in the games. But no way he is Erza's equal just because she said so (maybe she just didn't fight well in her mentioned fights). The same Erza saying Natsu is stronger than her in the beginning (or whatever similar she said). Makarov said Jura could be a good match with Gildarts, etc...
I've said before that everyone has their own motives and drive that powers them to do what they do. For whatever reason many don't like it. They call it nakama. Feelings. There is no one that fights without feelings, whether it be out of hate, vengeance, revenge, or to protect family or friends. That's life, in both real life and anime. Some of us who are not cold blooded, might not be willing to fight, but if your family member, significant other, something or someone are in mortal danger, you'd jump and save them even if you know your chances are slim, and you'd make it happen unconcerned if you succeed or not. You refuse to let it happen. Kagura fights with vengeance and unforgiving anger in her heart. That's her driving force. Some fight to become stronger always looking for strong opponents because they are competitive and confident. Or arrogance to be the best. Some do it out of ambition for world domination or just to be the strongest. All those are forms of feelings.
Who gives a shit what it is that drives them to fight hard and not give up. They fight hard because of feelings, regardless if it's good or bad. The less feelings the less they have reason to fight, which equals less fighting spirit. Look at some ft members who don't train or have that fire in their bellies to protect or fight, just lazy and don't fight or even go on jobs. Erza has a malicious side in her as she also said when talking to Edolas Erza, but she uses that dark side in battle and it's for her guild and herself. I think Acnologia got his strength due to hate for dragons. It could be because those important to him were killed by dragons, thereby fights out of sadness and anger because of that. Maybe he is just cold blooded and wants everyone dead. We don't know, but all mages have reasons and feelings that drives them and gives them fighting spirit.
If some guy falls in love with some chick and she says she won't give herself to him unless he defeats everyone in the world, then sex and love would be his drive to fight. How horny or in love he feels would be his reason to fight. Standing up and refusing to lose is not a bad thing. It's shitty when they stay down and give up easily, which seems to be what every hater wants when the character they hate wins. It kind of is more entertaining when the fights are not one sided from beginning to end. Battles of will and determination plus power is better.
Remember when ft members stepped foot on Tenrou they said they could feel great magic power on the island. That energy is what Azuma used to fight Erza. That was not his own magic power that brought her down. And to make it more advantageous for him he was fighting where there were trees all around, including above and below, which he used to fuse with to escape Erza. That also made attacking her easier. How much of a terrain advantage he had was ridiculous. His strongest attack coming from his own power was tower burst. Erza tanked it. His magic was so good that he just lifts his hand and can blow things up. That's what he did to the council ships. That is more effective that Jackal that needed to touch things to blow them up. Mard Geer had plant magic too, but has much greater power, but he did not have a stage advantage. Azuma vs Erza was supposed to be exciting because if she didn't succeed at stopping Azuma, all ft members would not regain their magic resulting in death during battle. Had the fight not have been in a place that gave Azuma great advantage in more ways than one, he wouldn't have downed Erza. That was to showcase her determination and fighting spirit. Tenrou tree went down early in their fight so Erza didn't get the Tenrou power boost or inability to be killed. The tree didn't get back up until the fight with Hades was almost over.
OK he is stronger than Elfman in the games. But no way he is Erza's equal just because she said so (maybe she just didn't fight well in her mentioned fights). The same Erza saying Natsu is stronger than her in the beginning (or whatever similar she said). Makarov said Jura could be a good match with Gildarts, etc...
Actually, that's a difference between a character stating about another character's strength as opposed to the character himself stating it. Makarov (wrongly) assumed that Laxus was no match for Jura for example but he didn't know Laxus strength or misjudged it. As far as the Manga goes, Bacchus was Erza's equal or well, powerful enough that she couldn't best him. If it was a death battle, then Erza could perhaps eventually win but the fact that she admitted herself that she never did, goes to show Bacchus is that strong after all. Well, not that things are the same now.
You tell me. Natsu fighting Aria and being made fun of. He didn't take his blindfold off so he wasn't at full power. He didn't put effort against Natsu. Natsu gets saved by Erza. He was getting blown away from Aria's power when he took his blindfold off and was gonna get serious. Erza was too strong for him that she went head on and one shot him. Still hurt from the Jupiter shot, she forced herself to fight Jose. Natsu went on to fight Gajeel in an even fight, proving the shit coming out of Jose's mouth was nothing more than a complement for recapturing Lucy. Words or actions are more important?
Natsu simply seemed like a bad match up for Natsu and Natsu was running low on MP like Happy said in his fight against Gajeel. Hiro outright states Gajeel was the strongest through Jose and you deny it. Like I said why wans't Juvia called the strongest when she knocked out Lucy? You blindly ignore character statement because they don't align with your opinion.
You want to talk about my evidence. Your evidence is a guess that it was long ago and that Erza was low tier. That makes no sense. Wishful thinking too.
ARE YOU NOT READIN MY POSTS. I said Erza back then would be a low tier if she was throw into the current MANGA. I WILL NOT REPEAT THIS AGAIN. READ MY POSTS.
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Go back to page 9 comment #168 you said Erza and Natsu were about the same strength. Yo gmg didn't start until after the Tenrou team was out for seven years. Before they went missing they were the strongest. After 7 years they did not get stronger did not age. They were behind in power. In three months, for them it was one day because the celestial spirit world moves slower. They got second origin, which gave them power they might have gotten had they trained like the others. Are you saying when they got back after seven years those were the times Erza fought Bacchus? Because the only time the Tenrou team were shit tier were the first three months after the skip. That was not the time Erza fought Baccus. She fought him when they ran into each other on their own jobs. What arc was Erza shit tier? And how the hell was Natsu as strong as Erza in the phantom arc after she beat a serious Aria who made Natsu look like shit? So Natsu was always weaker then Erza then caught up to her in the phantom arc, which isn't true, then Erza got stronger than him since then?
I'm not trying to ignore your comments. Tell me which arc was it Erza was weak. I think you got the whole thing mixed up
I said they were even during Phantom, THE PHANTOM ARC. I never said it lasted until Tenrou. I said Erza fought Bacchus back in the day before he went to Tenrou, this proves you are not reading my shit correctly. I said Erza back then is literally trash tier compared to the folks in GMG. I have literally addressed all these point, you are doing the EXACT SAME THING AS LAST TIME. READ MY POSTS CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU REPLY THIS TIME.
Natsu simply seemed like a bad match up for Natsu and Natsu was running low on MP like Happy said in his fight against Gajeel. Hiro outright states Gajeel was the strongest through Jose and you deny it. Like I said why wans't Juvia called the strongest when she knocked out Lucy? You blindly ignore character statement because they don't align with your opinion.
ARE YOU NOT READIN MY POSTS. I said Erza back then would be a low tier if she was throw into the current MANGA. I WILL NOT REPEAT THIS AGAIN. READ MY POSTS.
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I said they were even during Phantom, THE PHANTOM ARC. I never said it lasted until Tenrou. I said Erza fought Bacchus back in the day before he went to Tenrou, this proves you are not reading my shit correctly. I said Erza back then is literally trash tier compared to the folks in GMG. I have literally addressed all these point, you are doing the EXACT SAME THING AS LAST TIME. READ MY POSTS CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU REPLY THIS TIME.
Natsu being a bad matchup against Aria is bs excuse. Tell me how having more mp early on against Aria, translates into a weaker less mp Natsu in an even match against Gajeel? You are not making any sense. If it was Gajeel that Natsu fought first, then fought Aria next, that would be excusable that Natsu was losing to Aria because he is no longer at full power. My friend, you are slipping. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS! Erza whooped Aria at full power, which Natsu could not even though Aria never took Natsu seriously.
If any Mage seven years ago, fought with that strength in the gmg, they would also be weaker too even against their selves. Even if you count mages that didn't disappear for 7 years, they all got stronger during the seven years. You and I both said that Max got much stronger that he was able to give Natsu much trouble upon returning. Max might have been close to Natsu, but everyone got stronger too because Max and ft were the shittiest guild coming in last place in the gmg. Im reading your comments clearly. You are either delusional, or just believe whatever it is you want to believe and are not giving straight answers.
Fact is Jose said Gajeel is his strongest mage. Fact is Max said he could defeat Natsu after the 3 months of training before the gmg. Fact is Makarov didn't believe Laxus was stronger than Jura, not even close. Fact is many mages have stated that other mages are stronger than others. Erza saying Natsu was as strong as her was her older sisterly love, believing in him. She was also telling Juvia during the s class trial, in their fight that she can do better than that. When it comes down to it, Erza took heavy damage taking the Jupitor cannon, yet came in and took out Aria with such ease, saying that Aria could not have beaten Makarov with that power alone. Natsu with more fuel against Aria was useless, than he was against Gajeel with less energy left. That is a fact. Proving Erza was stronger than Natsu back then. It makes no sense that Natsu caught up to Erza's strength in the phantom arc and then she gets stronger then him after that. Not only that, but your weak excuse that Aria was a bad matchup and having less fuel against Gajeel makes no sense. In fact fuck Gajeel. Tell me why Natsu was shit against Aria, while Erza was not. You have nothing. You are still the same guy that loves to argue to no end whether you are right or wrong. This case is closed. You only have excuses and explanations that make no sense. Put a fork in it, you are done.
Natsu simply seemed like a bad match up for Natsu and Natsu was running low on MP like Happy said in his fight against Gajeel. Hiro outright states Gajeel was the strongest through Jose and you deny it. Like I said why wans't Juvia called the strongest when she knocked out Lucy? You blindly ignore character statement because they don't align with your opinion.
ARE YOU NOT READIN MY POSTS. I said Erza back then would be a low tier if she was throw into the current MANGA. I WILL NOT REPEAT THIS AGAIN. READ MY POSTS.
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I said they were even during Phantom, THE PHANTOM ARC. I never said it lasted until Tenrou. I said Erza fought Bacchus back in the day before he went to Tenrou, this proves you are not reading my shit correctly. I said Erza back then is literally trash tier compared to the folks in GMG. I have literally addressed all these point, you are doing the EXACT SAME THING AS LAST TIME. READ MY POSTS CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU REPLY THIS TIME.
I'm reading your posts and answering them. It's you that's not giving answers. If you got nothing to counter my post without answering questions then just give it up. Many of these mages say things, but the real proof is in their performance. It is true that Erza said Natsu was as strong as her, but their fight with Aria proves otherwise. It's that simple. Deal with it.
btw many are scared to give their say here because of guys like us. They're instead taking it into domus flau and I've even seen power ranking talk in the Mashima Twitter thread. I see you've been dominating the domus flau section. I would go there more often, but you're taking care of it already. So far you've been spot on in those matches that there's no reason for me to argue. You know you're good, when mods are intimidated by you that they like any comment that goes against you. lol
Natsu being a bad matchup against Aria is bs excuse. Tell me how having more mp early on against Aria, translates into a weaker less mp Natsu in an even match against Gajeel? You are not making any sense. If it was Gajeel that Natsu fought first, then fought Aria next, that would be excusable that Natsu was losing to Aria because he is no longer at full power. My friend, you are slipping. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS! Erza whooped Aria at full power, which Natsu could not even though Aria never took Natsu seriously.
If any Mage seven years ago, fought with that strength in the gmg, they would also be weaker too even against their selves. Even if you count mages that didn't disappear for 7 years, they all got stronger during the seven years. You and I both said that Max got much stronger that he was able to give Natsu much trouble upon returning. Max might have been close to Natsu, but everyone got stronger too because Max and ft were the shittiest guild coming in last place in the gmg. Im reading your comments clearly. You are either delusional, or just believe whatever it is you want to believe and are not giving straight answers.
Fact is Jose said Gajeel is his strongest mage. Fact is Max said he could defeat Natsu after the 3 months of training before the gmg. Fact is Makarov didn't believe Laxus was stronger than Jura, not even close. Fact is many mages have stated that other mages are stronger than others. Erza saying Natsu was as strong as her was her older sisterly love, believing in him. She was also telling Juvia during the s class trial, in their fight that she can do better than that. When it comes down to it, Erza took heavy damage taking the Jupitor cannon, yet came in and took out Aria with such ease, saying that Aria could not have beaten Makarov with that power alone. Natsu with more fuel against Aria was useless, than he was against Gajeel with less energy left. That is a fact. Proving Erza was stronger than Natsu back then. It makes no sense that Natsu caught up to Erza's strength in the phantom arc and then she gets stronger then him after that. Not only that, but your weak excuse that Aria was a bad matchup and having less fuel against Gajeel makes no sense. In fact fuck Gajeel. Tell me why Natsu was shit against Aria, while Erza was not. You have nothing. You are still the same guy that loves to argue to no end whether you are right or wrong. This case is closed. You only have excuses and explanations that make no sense. Put a fork in it, you are done.
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I'm reading your posts and answering them. It's you that's not giving answers. If you got nothing to counter my post without answering questions then just give it up. Many of these mages say things, but the real proof is in their performance. It is true that Erza said Natsu was as strong as her, but their fight with Aria proves otherwise. It's that simple. Deal with it.
btw many are scared to give their say here because of guys like us. They're instead taking it into domus flau and I've even seen power ranking talk in the Mashima Twitter thread. I see you've been dominating the domus flau section. I would go there more often, but you're taking care of it already. So far you've been spot on in those matches that there's no reason for me to argue. You know you're good, when mods are intimidated by you that they like any comment that goes against you. lol
Having low MP affects you overall power, Happy makes this perfectly clear in the Gajeel fight and that's why when Natsu' gets to eats flames he immediately overpowers Gajeel. Natsu FOUGHT THE FLAME GUY AND DESTROYED JUPITER BEFORE FIGHTING ARIA. He wasn't at 100% once again you're not comprehending my posts. Erza had no reason to lie to Jose when speaking about Natsu, you think Erza would know her own strength more than you.
Look this is about the 5th post about the BoS Erza being weak and you still don't get it. Just concede, before you reply go back and look at all the other posts I made and read them slowly and carefully.
Fact Jose said Gajeel was his strongest mage and was correct look at context. Fact Max could be Natsu based on what he saw about him, Max only lost because Natsu had LFD Mode, something he didn't know about. Fact Makarov was wanking Jura based on his title and didn't know how strong Laxus had become after his training. Fact some statements about mages being stronger may be true, CONTEXT IS KEY. FALSE! Erza saying Natsu was as strong as her wasn't sisterly love, look at the context and why didn't she same the same about Gray? Her relationship with Natsu at the time was pretty much the same as Gray's. Gajeel was steam rolling Natsu at the start of their fight and it only became more even when Gajeel starting getting lower on MP so he resorted to eating metal. Again Natsu was a bad matchup while Erza's swords literally gave her the ability to cut through Aria's airspace while Natsu couldn't do that. You say I don't give up yet on our last and only discussion you were the wrong one and you didn't give up despite not even reading my posts correctly, just like here.
