Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[The President]

Sherria would have been dead/KO from that attack if Wendy didn't enchant her stats so it is impressive. Sherria was low-mid S12 tier in stats and had GS advantage yet was still gonna lose if she didn't have Wendy as support.

She definitely would not, nor do you really have any way to prove that she would. And frankly, if a battle worn base Wendys enchantment was strong enough to double Sherrias durability (which is what it would have needed to do if DiMarias attack would have KOd/killed Sherria) then TO Sherrias durability really isn't that great to begin with. There is no win situation for your argument here. DiMarias offence is simply lacking.

A dragon's strongest asset is not their physical stats or they wouldn't even bother mastering their element and creating moves and secret arts.

Igneels roar did little to no damage to Acnologia and yet he was able to rip his arm off with a bite. Physical stats are definitely a dragons focal point. With that said, something like a roar enables them to hit a target from a distance rather then having to risk CQC combat (which can be just as detrimental to them). Of course naturally some dragons might sway more towards magic then others, much like humans have combat preferences dragons probably do as well.

 

[Hermit]

Igneels roar did little to no damage to Acnologia and yet he was able to rip his arm off with a bite.

Didn't we see the reason that Acnologia was able to survive that roar was because he shielded himself with his wings? I think if he took the full brunt of the attack head on there would have been lingering damage more than what we saw...
Also the reason Igneel was able to rip off Acno's arm was because both of them were exhausted and it was a final blow kind of thing...
About Zirconis, I have this head canon that his magic isn't entirely limited to humans, he can also rip off the scales of Dragons with his breath attacks

 

[Firepower]

@Firepower I'm going to state why I think Bradman > Gajeel:

• Bradman is intangible.
• Bradman has a variety of hax curses he can use.
• Bradman was dominating the fight, he was on the offensive constantly. (He literally pitied Gajeel when he tried to counter-attack)
• Bradman could have used the Sensation curse to increase Gajeel's pain but didn't.
• He also could have used the Enhancement curse to steadily become stronger but didn't.
• Without Levy, Torafuzar's poison water would have remained, limiting his movement.
• Gajeel HAD to enter Dragon Force to beat him.

Please don't respond so aggressively as you did in your last post, I've been nothing but fair in my posts, I don't need you saying how you were "kind" to me, we're in a discussion and while not much irritates me, condescension does. I'll reply to your reply but after that I'm not debating this any more, it's clear we don't see eye to eye on this and I'd like to end this on a decent note.

I was not trying to be condescending. Just HONEST. I try to break the truth slowly because some don't want to hear the truth or the truth comes out like a dagger or bad wake up call to reality. If there is proof to make it fact debates can keep going. I apologized on a previous post for being competitive or aggressive, but in the last post was meant to state things the way they are. In previous debates I've also been humble enough to admit when I'm wrong, unlike some other users. So don't make me out to be the bad guy. No one is perfect. Just because something doesn't go the way you want doesn't make it a plot hole or many other forms of excuses. It can be negative to fans of the manga for trashing it. I've addressed your points in detail and answered them.

-You've forgotten the point of this debate. The debate was that a TANGIBLE BRADMAN vs BASE Gajeel would be a close fight and I had Gajeel winning it. That is NOT a fact. That fight under those conditions could go either way.

-You said Bradman would win because of his seals and curses. I told you that the seals had no effect on him and that the curses didn't deal much damage from a great combo Bradman dished out. Dominating is the wrong word to use if his offense is ineffective.

-Sensation curse only makes it a battle of will. I can't conclude if Gajeel would have the willpower to deal with the pain or not, but obviously that would hinder him.

-Enhancement curse is great. But how long the fight would have lasted had Bradman been tangible is the question. Would a tangible Bradman have good defense and durability had he really taken Gajeel's hits? Nobodies knows. In the start of the fight Gajeel pierced him with many poles and a sword through his chest. I will assume that if Bradman was vulnerable he'd have been more cautious to not let that happen. I won't be narrow minded and say the fight would have ended right there with an easy win for Gajeel.

-Without Levy, the poison water would just be absorbed like last time giving Gajeel a power boost.

Agreed that Gajeel needed df to beat him, but remember we were talking about how the fight would go if Gajeel didn't need df to damage a tangible Bradman.

I'm not a big fan of Bradman because of the many he killed. Plus hacks don't make battles entertaining to me. Every time I remember Gajeel beating up Lucy for nothing when she was a hostage I remember why he's not my favorite. You are a Bradman fan for sure. My two favorite characters are Natsu and Erza, and I do my best not to be biased.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Like I said, this is my last post on the matter so I'll try to be as concise as possible and leave this on a good note.

I was not trying to be condescending. Just HONEST. I try to break the truth slowly because some don't want to hear the truth or the truth comes out like a dagger or bad wake up call to reality. If there is proof to make it fact debates can keep going. I apologized on a previous post for being competitive or aggressive, but in the last post was meant to state things the way they are. In previous debates I've also been humble enough to admit when I'm wrong, unlike some other users. So don't make me out to be the bad guy. No one is perfect. Just because something doesn't go the way you want doesn't make it a plot hole or many other forms of excuses. It can be negative to fans of the manga for trashing it. I've addressed your points in detail and answered them.

It's cool, I can see where your coming from, it just came across as harsh. @Bold is a perfect example, you say that I'm making you a bad guy but then you immediately accuse me of making excuses. Also both of us have made good points, I don't see the point in saying that you've addressed my points and answered them in detail when I've done the same thing. I apologize if I've come across as harsh or aggressive before (or even now) but it's not hard to understand why I don't like you insinuating that I'm making excuses.

-You've forgotten the point of this debate. The debate was that a TANGIBLE BRADMAN vs BASE Gajeel would be a close fight and I had Gajeel winning it. That is NOT a fact. That fight under those conditions could go either way.

Forgive me for that error, personally I think TangMan (my new abbreviation for Tangible Bradman) would high-diff Base Gajeel. I've stated the reasons before but basically it's due to hax like Macro (His Curse Power should be above Gajeel's Magic Power), the Sensation + Enhancement curse and the Absorption curse. Plus he can cancel his roar out with his Ice Devil's Rage.

-You said Bradman would win because of his seals and curses. I told you that the seals had no effect on him and that the curses didn't deal much damage from a great combo Bradman dished out. Dominating is the wrong word to use if his offense is ineffective.

I feel dominating would be an OK term for what Bradman was doing, he was attacking him and overwhelming him, it may not have done much damage but it still kept him on the defense. That's what I would call a dominating offense. Plus Bradman was starting to damage him, as seen by the thorn that went through his lower left abdomen.

-Sensation curse only makes it a battle of will. I can't conclude if Gajeel would have the willpower to deal with the pain or not, but obviously that would hinder him.

Agreed, I'm not saying it would win TangMan the battle but it would be a royal pain for Gajeel, especially seeing that curses like Tenga Goken and Thorns would prove much more distracting. The same goes for his Second and Third Seal.

-Enhancement curse is great. But how long the fight would have lasted had Bradman been tangible is the question. Would a tangible Bradman have good defense and durability had he really taken Gajeel's hits? Nobodies knows. In the start of the fight Gajeel pierced him with many poles and a sword through his chest. I will assume that if Bradman was vulnerable he'd have been more cautious to not let that happen. I won't be narrow minded and say the fight would have ended right there with an easy win for Gajeel.

Agreed, TangMan's durability is a mystery, the most I can say is that he wouldn't get two shotted. That being said, the Spriggans have all had pretty good durability so far, so I'd probably say it's decent.

-Without Levy, the poison water would just be absorbed like last time giving Gajeel a power boost.

Conceded, I forgot about that, though I do think it would give TangMan an opportunity to hit him with another attack.

I'm not a big fan of Bradman because of the many he killed. Plus hacks don't make battles entertaining to me. Every time I remember Gajeel beating up Lucy for nothing when she was a hostage I remember why he's not my favorite. You are a Bradman fan for sure. My two favorite characters are Natsu and Erza, and I do my best not to be biased.

While I am a Bradman fan I don't allow it to cloud my judgement, being a Sting fan I've gotten used to accepting a characters limits, for example I'd never put DF Sting and DF Rogue up against FDKM Natsu because the result is clear with their current feats. Like I said, this is my last reply on this, it was good debating with you.

 

[Boomburst]

I was not trying to be condescending. Just HONEST. I try to break the truth slowly because some don't want to hear the truth or the truth comes out like a dagger or bad wake up call to reality. If there is proof to make it fact debates can keep going. I apologized on a previous post for being competitive or aggressive, but in the last post was meant to state things the way they are. In previous debates I've also been humble enough to admit when I'm wrong, unlike some other users. So don't make me out to be the bad guy. No one is perfect. Just because something doesn't go the way you want doesn't make it a plot hole or many other forms of excuses. It can be negative to fans of the manga for trashing it. I've addressed your points in detail and answered them.

-You've forgotten the point of this debate. The debate was that a TANGIBLE BRADMAN vs BASE Gajeel would be a close fight and I had Gajeel winning it. That is NOT a fact. That fight under those conditions could go either way.

-You said Bradman would win because of his seals and curses. I told you that the seals had no effect on him and that the curses didn't deal much damage from a great combo Bradman dished out. Dominating is the wrong word to use if his offense is ineffective.

-Sensation curse only makes it a battle of will. I can't conclude if Gajeel would have the willpower to deal with the pain or not, but obviously that would hinder him.

-Enhancement curse is great. But how long the fight would have lasted had Bradman been tangible is the question. Would a tangible Bradman have good defense and durability had he really taken Gajeel's hits? Nobodies knows. In the start of the fight Gajeel pierced him with many poles and a sword through his chest. I will assume that if Bradman was vulnerable he'd have been more cautious to not let that happen. I won't be narrow minded and say the fight would have ended right there with an easy win for Gajeel.

-Without Levy, the poison water would just be absorbed like last time giving Gajeel a power boost.

Agreed that Gajeel needed df to beat him, but remember we were talking about how the fight would go if Gajeel didn't need df to damage a tangible Bradman.

I'm not a big fan of Bradman because of the many he killed. Plus hacks don't make battles entertaining to me. Every time I remember Gajeel beating up Lucy for nothing when she was a hostage I remember why he's not my favorite. You are a Bradman fan for sure. My two favorite characters are Natsu and Erza, and I do my best not to be biased.

Bruh everything you've stated during this debate is an OPINION, not a FACT. Stop acting like your point view is 100% the right one and that you're trying to be the good guy here, it's degrading to the person you're arguing with. Your claims are NOT TRUTH. They're OPINIONS. Saber was right to stop the debate, because at this point you've already decided your own opinions are absolute fact and you've completely disregarded any possibility that your "truth" could be wrong. Going around saying "oh I'm just trying to let you down easy" and "I'm trying to make the truth hurt as little as possible" is nothing but proof of your own arrogance.

 

[Firepower]

Like I said, this is my last post on the matter so I'll try to be as concise as possible and leave this on a good note.

It's cool, I can see where your coming from, it just came across as harsh. @Bold is a perfect example, you say that I'm making you a bad guy but then you immediately accuse me of making excuses. Also both of us have made good points, I don't see the point in saying that you've addressed my points and answered them in detail when I've done the same thing. I apologize if I've come across as harsh or aggressive before (or even now) but it's not hard to understand why I don't like you insinuating that I'm making excuses.

Forgive me for that error, personally I think TangMan (my new abbreviation for Tangible Bradman) would high-diff Base Gajeel. I've stated the reasons before but basically it's due to hax like Macro (His Curse Power should be above Gajeel's Magic Power), the Sensation + Enhancement curse and the Absorption curse. Plus he can cancel his roar out with his Ice Devil's Rage.

I feel dominating would be an OK term for what Bradman was doing, he was attacking him and overwhelming him, it may not have done much damage but it still kept him on the defense. That's what I would call a dominating offense. Plus Bradman was starting to damage him, as seen by the thorn that went through his lower left abdomen.

Agreed, I'm not saying it would win TangMan the battle but it would be a royal pain for Gajeel, especially seeing that curses like Tenga Goken and Thorns would prove much more distracting. The same goes for his Second and Third Seal.

Agreed, TangMan's durability is a mystery, the most I can say is that he wouldn't get two shotted. That being said, the Spriggans have all had pretty good durability so far, so I'd probably say it's decent.

Conceded, I forgot about that, though I do think it would give TangMan an opportunity to hit him with another attack.

While I am a Bradman fan I don't allow it to cloud my judgement, being a Sting fan I've gotten used to accepting a characters limits, for example I'd never put DF Sting and DF Rogue up against FDKM Natsu because the result is clear with their current feats. Like I said, this is my last reply on this, it was good debating with you.

When I say excuses I mean plot holes and all of the above that many use and say the manga is wrong. It's a story. Made up. There's nothing wrong with Levy surviving particles for that long. I've explained how it should not be a question if Gajeel could have escaped the second seal, saying that he was in visibly greater trouble from over skelter and that if one panel of him in skulls does not prove death. That if you wanted to see how his face looks helpless at death's door it would be at the end when Bradman was about to take him to die together. I gave you those explanations and you haven't answered them yet. Putting obstacles like the seals which Gajeel escaped does not make it dominating. Yes the thorn went through Gajeel, but look at the condition of the fight. Gajeel was desperately trying to finish him off for the sake of Levy. He jumped at Bradman right away recklessly trying to do it for her. I don't know if Bradman was already using enhancement curse. That curse when activated makes him stronger the longer he fights, but once not in use his power goes away. Otherwise Kyoka would have been stronger than Acno if that curse can be used forever or if the added power disappears once enhancement curse is switched off. I don't remember exactly how Kyoka's curse works so correct me if I'm wrong. I based the fight off of what they demonstrated, and not with Kyoka's magic because he never used it. With her magic a tangible Bradman could win. Without it Gajeel smashes a tangible Bradman as he has already taken what Bradman can offer and took little damage. It would be based on durability after that. After Gajeel achieved df he was able to hurt Bradman and did it easily. That could mean a tangible Bradman has little durability, or that DF Gajeel is just that strong to end it that quickly.

 

[The President]

Bradman was destroying base Gajeel. Tenchi Kaimei alone would force Gajeel into ISD (if Levy was not there), from there you could either hype up Gajeels current ISD (cause its featless) or refrain from talking about it at all. Bradman mixes things up with a few other curses and its donezo for Non-DF Gajeel IMO.

Didn't we see the reason that Acnologia was able to survive that roar was because he shielded himself with his wings? I think if he took the full brunt of the attack head on there would have been lingering damage more than what we saw...

I honestly don't think it matters, if anything his wings should be less durable shouldn't they?

Also the reason Igneel was able to rip off Acno's arm was because both of them were exhausted and it was a final blow kind of thing...

I think exhaustion affects offence more then it does durability (I don't think exhaustion affects durability at all tbh, just endurance) so if anything both if of being exhausted would make Igneels attack weaker then it would normally be.

About Zirconis, I have this head canon that his magic isn't entirely limited to humans, he can also rip off the scales of Dragons with his breath attacks

Do you like Zirconis? That's a pretty thought out theory. Anything in particular that lead you to believe this?

 

[Ebony Maw]

@Firepower Like I said, my last post was just that, it was a good debate but there is no point in continuing, both of us have firm stances that won't change so I'm not continuing this.

 

[Firepower]

Bruh everything you've stated during this debate is an OPINION, not a FACT. Stop acting like your point view is 100% the right one and that you're trying to be the good guy here, it's degrading to the person you're arguing with. Your claims are NOT TRUTH. They're OPINIONS. Saber was right to stop the debate, because at this point you've already decided your own opinions are absolute fact and you've completely disregarded any possibility that your "truth" could be wrong. Going around saying "oh I'm just trying to let you down easy" and "I'm trying to make the truth hurt as little as possible" is nothing but proof of your own arrogance.

In short it's a Fact that what Sabertooth claimed to be plot holes are not. Proof is in the pictures. Give me reasons why Gajeel escaping over skelter is a plot hole? What, just because Levy helped him means he was as good as dead without her during the second seal? Where does that idea come from? One panel of him falling and another of him in the skulls. He escaped over skelter easily. He was in much more trouble there as he was getting tangled by skulls with bodies. He was screaming. But he got out after it showed him in a bit of a twist. The second seal only showed him there calling them a damn pile of bones. Where do you get the idea he was as good as dead. A look of helpless death is when he was being pulled in by Beadman after the fight ended. And if Levy really saved his life, don't you think it be natural for her and Gajeel to be relieved his life was saved? Thed have said "Close one" or something if it were a life or death moment. No they were very casual about it. All that Gajeel was worried about was her inhaling the particles.

So don't get your panties in a bunch.
I don't know you, but you talk like you already know me. I always consider those who judge others to be assholes. With assholes I am not so kind. Only God can judge anyone. Whether you believe in God or not you don't make the decisions on who is good or bad.

My Opinion. Base Gajeel whoops tangible Bradman without Kyoka's curse. With Kyoka's curse Bradman has a chance and the advantage depending on his durability.

@BluePegasus I got some news for you. DF Gajeel killed Bradman therefore DF Gajeel is stronger. Face the facts

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2016 ---

@Firepower Like I said, my last post was just that, it was a good debate but there is no point in continuing, both of us have firm stances that won't change so I'm not continuing this.

Like Iiiiii said too. I've given more then enough evidence to prove the second seal wasn't going to kill Gajeel. All you had to counter that was that it was a plot hole. Then added by creating more plot holes which I answered and have not gotten a reply back addressing it. Levy helping Gajeel does not mean he needed it. As he proved with the stronger over skelter that he escaped it after showing more struggle in it. I will say it was stronger because if it was not Levy would just use her magic on it again. Instead you again say we have our own stances. I will agree that we have our own stances on who would win under these conditions as that cannot be proven unless done, but you assumed death with no reasoning behind it and making the manga look bad calling them plot holes.

 

[Ebony Maw]

In short it's a Fact that what Sabertooth claimed to be plot holes are not. Proof is in the pictures. Give me reasons why Gajeel escaping over skelter is a plot hole?

For the love of.... Right this is my final attempt and then I'm not replying, Gajeel was being swallowed by the Second Seal, he couldn't even move and even if he wasn't going to die from that it was restricting his movements. In comparison Over Skelter was a much bigger attack that was destroying Levy and Gajeel, Bradman claimed it to be inescapable and then what happens? Gajeel swims out of it in one panel like it's nothing. Give in mind that in the panel after Second Seal Gajeel was being swallowed whereas in Over Skelter he swam out like it was nothing. How is that not a plot hole? He escaped Over Skelter like it was nothing and Bradman's reaction alone tells us that that's never happened before. As for Levy, her surviving all three seals was complete BS, any mage not named Gajeel was dying by going near him and yet Levy survived all three seals, and before you bring up the fodder argument the main guys of ST never went near Bradman, they fled and escaped death. Like it or not Gajeevy vs Bradman was complete BS, Base Gajeel couldn't beat Bradman despite being a natural counter and having an ally.

Seriously, I tried to be kind but these are the facts.

 

[Firepower]

For the love of.... Right this is my final attempt and then I'm not replying, Gajeel was being swallowed by the Second Seal, he couldn't even move and even if he wasn't going to die from that it was restricting his movements. In comparison Over Skelter was a much bigger attack that was destroying Levy and Gajeel, Bradman claimed it to be inescapable and then what happens? Gajeel swims out of it in one panel like it's nothing. Give in mind that in the panel after Second Seal Gajeel was being swallowed whereas in Over Skelter he swam out like it was nothing. How is that not a plot hole? He escaped Over Skelter like it was nothing and Bradman's reaction alone tells us that that's never happened before. As for Levy, her surviving all three seals was complete BS, any mage not named Gajeel was dying by going near him and yet Levy survived all three seals, and before you bring up the fodder argument the main guys of ST never went near Bradman, they fled and escaped death. Like it or not Gajeevy vs Bradman was complete BS, Base Gajeel couldn't beat Bradman despite being a natural counter and having an ally.

Seriously, I tried to be kind but these are the facts.

Why are you getting mad? What you think you have the right to have the last word just because you are being nice? Being self righteous is what mama's boys do when they don't get things the way they want the same way their parents always treated them as if they can do no wrong.

Yes you said it loud and clear that Gajeel escaped over skelter and it shocked Bradman. Do the math. That means with the weaker second seal Gajeel would have escaped it too. Being helped before taking action does not prove anything.

You see Gajeel in skulls with the second seal. You see even more with the third seal, more trouble, more panels to show more difficulty with Bradman reaction. All you have said is she helped him therefore he would have died without her. One panel of Gajeel after he was seen falling on them does not prove in one panel that he was helpless. That's a Fact. Deal with it

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 16, 2016 ---

Do things on your terms and il do things on mine

 

[Aizen]

I think we can all have our opinions without getting too snappy at each other. That is the only "fact" i see haha. Seriously though i tend to agree with SaberToothFan on the subject, that whole part with Gajeel and Levy escaping Over Skelter seemed ridiculous to me. These things are largely subjective though, so there is no reason to get too heated imo.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Sorry to interrupt the current debates going on. I've been absent for a while and need to respond to some points. By the way, I will be responding to another user in my second post.

Part 1

Well I guess you've got a point. The thing is, we can't know. Makarov only hyped the Spriggans above the clouds but he never said "btw one spriggan individual is way stronger than one of the draogns we had to face" or anything like that.

Relying on feats, Irene actually dared to face the strongest dragon (and being for that matter) and did reasonably well, so I don't see why she couldn't beat a much, much, much weaker dragon (Zirconis for example, who I think Acnologia would laugh at). For all we know Irene threw a fire ball at Acnologia who could barely block it with his hand and with considerable setback, and she was arguably not even trying.

Yeah, I agree we don't know for sure. We don't have any clear evidence from the manga except hype but logically speaking, I don't see the Spriggans on the same level as the Dragons even though the power inflation was tremendous since the last arc.

It's true that Eileen challenged Acnologia. But I wouldn't say she did reasonably well. First of all, Acnologia didn't have the intention to kill her. He barely attacked her with seriousness. This situation is very similar to Igneel-Powered Natsu vs Zeref. I've seen many people claim that Igneel Natsu would beat Zeref with low difficulty. The problem here is that many don't take into account that Zeref let Natsu hit him. If Zeref actually went all out against Natsu, the fight could yield a different outcome. So, I see Eileen's encounter with Acnologia being very similar to Natsu/Gildarts' encounter with Zeref/Acnologia (respectively). She did run away from the fight after all...

I guess that if Natsu is 9 the average spriggan is 12, Irene and August are 20, but you need 35 to defeat a Dragon, and the dragon slayer factor happens to be a 5x, then Natsu can do so but Irene and August can't. So I guess this is your logic and it's indeed very respectable. I still think Irene and August are well capable of achieving a win against a regular dragon though.

No, actually I don't think the dragon slayer factor happens to be a 5x. I never said that Natsu can beat a dragon the way he is right now (even with dragon slayer magic). In fact, the only way I see him beating one up is if he uses DF and even then, that is a stretch. Anyways, I will admit that the numbers you gave are quite close to my actual thought process. But just to clarify...

• Natsu would only be a 9 in Base Form
• FDKM Natsu would put him more or less on an average Spriggan Level
• DF Natsu would put him closer to Eileen and August (similar to God Serena)

But how massive was that powerup? IMO she was probably not stronger than Kagura, but with her advantage she could pull off a win. And Kagura (or TO Chelia for that matter) was still leagues below Dimaria but the GS factor equated into a win. However Irene or August have been hyped to be above Dimaria so I assume they could defeat her. Which implies that if a mage is strong enough, he can pretty much defeat anything he wants, but he's not going to have the +250% (or whatever) bonus for effectiveness

The Third Origin power-up was quite a lot if you ask me. I'm one of the few who have stuck to that position since the chapter first came out. In fact, here is how I see it...

• Kagura ≈ Mirajane
• Mirajane ≈ Erza
• Erza ≈ Ajeel
• Ajeel ≈ Dimaria

So Base Chelia who is barely stronger than Base Wendy (weaker than Bluenote), being on Erza's level after the power-up is massive in my eyes. Keep in mind that Third Origin is so overpowered that the user cannot even use magic afterwards.

I guess we'll just have to disagree here.

My answer would be she might've slightly injured her, but Dimaria would've beaten her mid diff at most. But I still believe August and Eileen to be so many tiers above TO Chelia, that it makes sense for me to think that they could be above a Dragon. Also, what is more powerful, a dragon or a god? The only reasonably strong god we've got to know is Dimaria and we can't know for a fact whether she's > or < a regular dragon.

Not a bad answer. I agree August and Eileen are many levels above TO Chelia, but still not above a dragon (maybe a little close though). Of course we disagree here but I will say that I don't think Dimaria is on the level of a dragon.

Jura pretty much stayed the same. I've seen opinions ranging from the claim he even went down (he went past his prime + he didn't train) to opinions saying he should be current Erza level (way too hyped, since Erza put a decent fight against a Spriggan, whereas a team of four arguably as strong mages were sh*ted upon). In the middle we get what's probably true: he improved marginally or he may have gotten as strong as the weakest GoI (which makes sense since durability-wise, the four of them were portrayed as equals...)

Jura is unfortunately far from borderline spriggan level:

Jura (high WS) > Warrod (low GoI) > Wolfheim (mid GoI) > Hyberion/current Erza (high GoI) > borderline Spriggan level (maybe Mirajane Alegria?) > Low spriggan level (Neinhart). Moreorless.

If you take a peek at the communal ranking, you'll see that he's fairly below any Spriggan. Therefore the gap between himself and a Spriggan should be so huge, than I can see Jura not even hurting a Dragon and a Spriggan pulling off a hard win.

I'm one of the few who actually thinks that Jura is somewhat on Erza's level. We know that before the timeskip, Jura was very well above Erza. And the fact that we didn't see much improvement from Erza ever since means that if she were to improve, it would be only to Jura's level. At least that is my opinion.

I have to say I disagree with the list but I see where you're getting at. I don't see Erza on Hyberion's level. As for Jura, I would say he is somewhat close to Warrod. Warrod would be quite weaker than Wolfheim. And Wolfheim would be way weaker than Hyberion. Mirajane would be on Erza's level in my opinion. As for Neinhart, I think he is the lowest on the list.

Regarding the communal ranking, I respect it and would like to take the time right now to say...

"Thank you for putting your hard work into it. I see it as a very useful tool and agree with some of it. But my opinion still differs a little."

Not even close, IMO. While Acnologia speedblitzed Glidartz and ripped off an arm, a leg and most of his organs, Irene put a reasonably decent fight in which there was a interchange of attacks and Irene was actually capable of dodging one of his. Glidartz didn't achieve such a feat so that puts Irene faaaaaaaaar above THAT Glidartz. As for a possible Glidartz comeback, we cannot know how strong he'll come back. Weaker than Tenrou? As in Tenrou? Stronger than Tenrou? Vastly Stronger than Tenrou (Spriggan level)? Ridiculously stronger than Tenrou (August level)? We cannot know!

Fair enough. We'll just disagree here. The fights were similar in my opinion due to the context of the situation. While Acnologia "toyed" with Eileen, he intended to kill Gildarts in an instant.

As for Gildarts' power when he comes back, I won't speculate as there have been major arguments regarding that topic. I will say that I am part of the minority (if you can tell which side I am on). Haha.

Their growth is simply and plainly ridiculous. It's usually the case that previous villains are no longer too big a threat after a couple of arcs have gone by. Erigor was a worm by the Tower of Heaven arc; that Jellal was a joke by the time we saw Hades, Mard Geer was simply too OP and Hades wasn't taken into account any longer since one of MG's lackeys could turn into the very Hades! (Although I consider Hades w heart on the same tier as Mard Geer). It was not ridiculous though: their growth was borderline believable but if you were understanding you could believe it.

Not after this timeskip, the main cast seems to have improved more than in the whole FT series. The gap that separates current Natsu to Tartaros Natsu is, IMO, bigger than the gap between Tartaros Natsu and beginning of series Natsu which is plainly ridiculous.

Having said that, to asnwer your question: yes, IMO, they can defeat a dragon.

Again, I can see your point. At the same time, I still don't fully agree with it.

First off, I acknowledge that there was a major power inflation since the last arc. Some are many times stronger than their previous self. But a lot of this was based off of hype. As for the fans, I feel like many have overhyped it even more to the point that it seems like we're dealing with a whole new set of characters. Most would blame this on Hiro Mashima and his ability to skew power rankings. As for me, I think that we aren't quite getting the exact picture of the power rankings (until the arc ends).

I may very well be wrong but I still don't see them defeating a dragon (just my opinion).

Yeah but there you are assuming that Jacob cannot defeat a Dragon. We don't know the limits of his haxy magic but maybe in his own dimension anything that enters is dead meat... He could very well be above GMG dragons for all we know. The thing is, we don't really know how regular dragons compare to Spriggan-level characters but I'd say that after this ridiculous 1 year growth, GMG dragons wouldn't be much of a problem for the current main cast.

Also GMG dragons were just regular dragons. Not fodder dragons, I don't think there's such thing as fodder dragons. Future Natsu spamming dragons was little believable to me unless that Natsu was actually as powerful as Alvarez Natsu.

It is definitely true that I am assuming Jacob cannot defeat a dragon. If I were to only base my power rankings off of hype, then any of the Spriggans can solo the GMG Dragons. Unfortunately, I don't see it that way. My question to anybody who thinks this way is...

What attacks does Jacob have that can seemingly take down a dragon? None in my opinion. Also, I don't count Transport for anybody willing to use that as a feat.

Hmmm well I do get your logic and it sounds fine to me. It's just that you say it'd be ridiculous... Well to me it's already ridiculous the MC growth in this arc so if you ask me could human form Acnologia oneshot Atlas Flame?... I'll probably answer: yes. Because I consider God Serena superior to Atlas FLame anyway.

Indeed, I agree it is ridiculous. But I don't see it being that ridiculous. As for Acnologia one-shotting Atlas Flame, I disagree. We don't know too much about God Serena or Atlas Flame so I can't tell who is superior. However, because God Serena is a dragon slayer, has resistance to Atlas Flame, and is a high-tier Spriggan, I will say that he is as close as you can get to a dragon level. He may be extremely close or on par.

---

Anyways, because we seemingly disagree a lot on this topic. You can have the last word.

 

[Firepower]

I think we can all have our opinions without getting too snappy at each other. That is the only "fact" i see haha. Seriously though i tend to agree with SaberToothFan on the subject, that whole part with gajeel and Levy escaping Over Skelter seemed ridiculous to me. These things are largely subjective though, so there is no reason to get too heated imo.

That's how debates go. I'm calm. If you want to share why you believe what you believe go ahead. Like any other thread be ready to back up your claims though. Disagreement is a part of everyday life. Real life and anime fantasies are two different things. There are some who get mad if the world doesn't agree with them.mthere are some who draw the line where they want to compromise yet can still be an unreasonable compromise. There are many types of people and I've seen division in these forums just because of differences. The debates are about stuff that hasn't happened and how it would go if they did. Providing evidence is key. Contribution to add own beliefs will eventually give answers if we can as a group accept what we are right or wrong about, and about stuff just can't be answered. When things don't go their way it usually ends with them blaming the manga. There is a manga like that that just isn't right. I call it bleach. Very good at first and then turned to crap imo. You won't often see me there because complaining about the story does very little for me or anyone. If to me it makes no sense that's not the manga for me.

 

[Hermit]

Do you like Zirconis? That's a pretty thought out theory. Anything in particular that lead you to believe this?

Haha well Future Rogue is my top 3 favorites villains so of course I'll like his henchmen too
He's my second favorite Eclipse Dragon after Atlas Flame actually....
Oh no it wasn't something I gave much thought to, I just felt it seemed to relate with what we've seen from him, he said 'My magic robs humans of their dignity', so I thought, why wouldn't the same apply to Dragons as well? So I have a headcanon that Zirconis's magic allows him to also rob other Dragons of their scales (which would be the equivalent of clothing to humans), thus leaving them vulnerable to attacks that would otherwise be impervious to their skin..
It's just a tinfoil, take it with a grain of salt btw!

 

[Firepower]

@SaberToothFan I won't reply back regardless if you have something to say or not unless you want a reply. I got nothing against you. I just wanted to clear things up. Everyone has the right to say and do things on their terms. You were trying to prove your point too and never found any of it disrespectful. I apologize for being a bit harsh at time. I'm sorry. I admit a tangible Bradman would have the edge over Gajeel IMO only because of Kyoka's power. What I still stand by is that there is no plot hole and that the second seal would not have succeeded. If that can be proven wrong I won't deny it. I debate and try to find an answer. I'm not always content with "agree to disagree" if there is more than enough evidence to prove something. That's all.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Part 2

Can you provide the translation you are reading?

Sure. For your information, I mainly read Fairy Tail chapters on KissManga. The problem with this site is that they recently replaced some old scans with new ones. I assume it is the Crunchyroll Version (anybody can verify it for me). But because this site also updates the chapters as soon as they come out, they may have some from MangaStream. I guess it is mixed. But here is the panel, I was referring to...

Spoiler

If August knows all forms of magic whether its lost or new that means he knows dragon slaying magic. Zeref is not considered a mage, he is considered an immortal, hence the humans VS dragon VS immortal headline for the war.

Not necessarily. He may know many forms of magic but all is probably just an exaggeration. If he knows dragon slaying magic, then he can technically be considered a dragon slayer which would go against Acnologia's words. Zeref is still an immortal mage... A mage is just someone who utilizes or wields magic.

I mean the weakest mages that can actually slay a dragon, whatever that level might be.

I disagree but we'll just leave it as that.

But Jura did not do anything to Serena either, an arguably stronger version of Jura then the one that faced the dragons. Base GMG Wendy's fire power is borderline fodder compared to what we see today, she couldn't even scratch Ezel.

I agree here.

The parent dragon speed is not something to laugh at, I'd like to think they are a step above the dragons we saw at GMG. But that is speed while gaining momentum, CSK is on a similar boat, once it actually comes to battle though they have shown to be quite slow hitters.

I agree that parent dragons are a step above the GMG dragons. But the GMG dragons weren't fodders either. As for the speed, they gain momentum while flying. So it's not like the dragons will outright attack their opponents. They will just stall and fly around until they can get enough speed and blitz them.

I highly doubt it. The idea was that Acnologia could kill the likes of Zircnois effortlessly, he can't kill Irene effortlessly. That was made clear. The fact that base GMG Wendy was able to stun Zirconis is really all the proof I need that if you even out the playing field, they really aren't that scary. At least the weaker dragons. Of course there are likely tiers to the dragons as well. As a race they are superior to any other in Fairy Tail, I wouldn't question that.

No, he could have killed Eileen easily if she were a dragon slayer or somebody he intended to kill. The dragons were scared of him because they knew Acnologia hates them (dragons). As for Eileen's encounter with Acnologia, what was made clear was the fact that she was vastly inferior and that Acnologia did not want to deal with what he considered "trash". Like I said, stunning or lightly scratching something is immensely different from defeating/killing.

---

In the end, it appears we both have different opinions. So if you would like to have the last word, by all means, go ahead.

 

[The President]

Sure. For your information, I mainly read Fairy Tail chapters on KissManga. The problem with this site is that they recently replaced some old scans with new ones. I assume it is the Crunchyroll Version (anybody can verify it for me). But because this site also updates the chapters as soon as they come out, they may have some from MangaStream. I guess it is mixed. But here is the panel, I was referring to...

Fair enough, I disagree with your interpretation of what is said though. Near and far, old and new is talking about mages, not magic. If he was talking about magic then near and far wouldn't really make sense and old and new would imply that he knows all magic, which is unlikely.

Not necessarily. He may know many forms of magic but all is probably just an exaggeration. If he knows dragon slaying magic, then he can technically be considered a dragon slayer which would go against Acnologia's words.

I don't agree with the notion that he knows dragon slaying magic as well, I am simply pointing out the discrepancies in your point about him knowing all magic, old and new.

Zeref is still an immortal mage... A mage is just someone who utilizes or wields magic.

Doesn't matter, Zeref isn't acknowledged as a mage, he is reffered to as an immortal. Just like Acnologia is not reffered to as a mage, despite also knowing magic.

I agree that parent dragons are a step above the GMG dragons. But the GMG dragons weren't fodders either. As for the speed, they gain momentum while flying. So it's not like the dragons will outright attack their opponents. They will just stall and fly around until they can get enough speed and blitz them.

That's not what they do however, and we don't know how much maneuverability they have when going at such speeds so its still very possible to dodge.

No, he could have killed Eileen easily if she were a dragon slayer or somebody he intended to kill. The dragons were scared of him because they knew Acnologia hates them (dragons). As for Eileen's encounter with Acnologia, what was made clear was the fact that she was vastly inferior and that Acnologia did not want to deal with what he considered "trash". Like I said, stunning or lightly scratching something is immensely different from defeating/killing.

He intended to kill her, his attack on her proved that. He also acknowledged her power, he did not consider her trash. In fact he was so impressed by her that he not only ackoweldged her, but wanted to know just who she was. Normal customs are that you only state or you demand the name of someone you deem equal, although you don't necessarily have to be equal, its highest form of respect in battle. That's immeasurably telling from a cocky pri*ck like Acnologia. I can assure you he did not ask for the names of the dragons he slayed. He can't blitz her like he did Serena, hence he opted for more devastating attacks.

Its GMG base Wendy we are talking about here. Her weight class is extremely low and she doesn't even hit hard for her weight class because she's a support type. The fact that she could even stun a dragon is also VERY telling of just how overrated their durability is, at least when it comes to the weaker dragons. Tartarus base Wendy couldn't overpower base Ezel. A Spriggan with dragon slaying magic is going to town on weak dragons, let alone August.

In the end, it appears we both have different opinions. So if you would like to have the last word, by all means, go ahead.

If you have the time please do reply one last time, I am curious to your side of the debate on this topic. I won't reply back to not drag it on.

 

[Aizen]

That's how debates go. I'm calm. If you want to share why you believe what you believe go ahead. Like any other thread be ready to back up your claims though. Disagreement is a part of everyday life. Real life and anime fantasies are two different things. There are some who get mad if the world doesn't agree with them.mthere are some who draw the line where they want to compromise yet can still be an unreasonable compromise. There are many types of people and I've seen division in these forums just because of differences. The debates are about stuff that hasn't happened and how it would go if they did. Providing evidence is key. Contribution to add own beliefs will eventually give answers if we can as a group accept what we are right or wrong about, and about stuff just can't be answered. When things don't go their way it usually ends with them blaming the manga. There is a manga like that that just isn't right. I call it bleach. Very good at first and then turned to crap imo. You won't often see me there because complaining about the story does very little for me or anyone. If to me it makes no sense that's not the manga for me.

Yeah i get you, but i think saying certain opinions are "fact" is not a recipe for success in terms of having a discussion. That said i have had debates with you, so i know that you are a reasonable guy. That's just my opinion though, other than that i agree with you, people can be silly about these things. I don't agree with you about Bleach though as my avatar should suggest haha.

 

[Firepower]

Yeah i get you, but i think saying certain opinions are "fact" is not a recipe for success in terms of having a discussion. That said i have had debates with you, so i know that you are a reasonable guy. That's just my opinion though, other than that i agree with you, people can be silly about these things. I don't agree with you about Bleach though as my avatar should suggest haha.

Well it is a fact that Gajeel escaped from over skelter. That alone should have answered if he could have done the same with the weaker second seal of skulls. To go out and say that he was as good as dead from one panel of struggle, no surprised look and calling them a damn pile of bones does not inspire one to believe he'd have died, and is a guess. With over skelter, Gajeel was tangled up by skulls with bodies. There were panels of it with him even screaming. That was a far worse situation. If It was the third seal that Gajeel was saved from it would be much more debatable if he would have died or not without Levy. Some would ask how do you get out of that if it wrapped around you and was choking you. But it was the second seal. In both seals he was in a predicament. The next panel either shows Gajeel dealing with it on his own or Levy saving him. The look of inescapable death was after the fight as he was being pulled in to die together. If you look at all three situations, you'll see which one's were the harder ones to deal with and how Gajeel responded to each of them. He wasn't screaming or freaked out with the look of helplessness in the second seal as he was with the last two. Having the small feat of getting out of overskelter should have answered if he could have done the same with with the weaker second one. Anyway, I'm sick of talking about these fools, Bradman and Gajeel. I think I dislike them even more.

About Bleach manga. Sorry lol I don't plan on discussing that even on a thread that it belongs in or in private convo. I'll just say it's not the manga for me.