So you think he's not strong therefore I'm biased? You can have your opinion and I can have mine nowhere does that make either of us biased. Just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't mean I'm biased.
So you think he's not strong therefore I'm biased? You can have your opinion and I can have mine nowhere does that make either of us biased. Just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't mean I'm biased.
Serena is obviously a high tier Spriggan. His damn Historia was legit giving all of Fairy Tail sans Gildarts and Laxus trouble while Bradman and Wahl's historias are seemingly being matched with fodder Rogue and Minerva by themselves. And this is just asides from every other piece of hype that Mashima has thrown his way that has been regurgitated over and over.
Gildarts's respect alone warrants classification as a high tier Spriggan.
His Historia was giving nobody trouble the only person even shown any sort of discomfort was Juvia. Bradman and Wahl are matched with fodder and guess what, they're still here. Serena has been hyped to be on par with the other Spirggan, not above.
Are you referring to Historia Serena's attacks? I think those were pretty weak. Except maybe the roar that Gildarts broke.
I probably am biased to Natsu, but that's because I think his offence is really strong. Tbh his base power is comparable to God Serena's, and FDKM is another level above.
^^I never said he was above. He is clearly on the higher end though. His Historia was only using 2 out of his 8 elements and overwhelming the guild and was about to let loose his storm power before Gildarts came in.
Serena fodderized the top four mages of the Wizard Saints and even your precious little Gildarts admitted that he was a force to be reckoned with. So basically according to your portrayal of Gildarts God Serena should be stronger than August and Irene. -_-
Jacob is a specialist CQC spriggan, which means his cqc is probably above Erza. Natsu could melt his knife, what makes you think Natsu cannot melt Erza's weaponry?
see, this is what I mean. everyone and their mothers are stomping erza these days. if Jacob is cqc specialist, you should have said something like his cqc should be above laxus cqc. why is everytime someone might be good at something, erza get thrown in the trash can.
When we don't have facts, we use assumptions. IMHO, it's as valid to think that God Serena is a regular spriggan tier and the GoI are trash, than to think that the GoI are rathter powerful and that God Serena is above the regular spriggan. Why? Cause we don't have facts to determine either of the two options.
However I do accept and somewhat agree with those who say that GoI are sheer trash and that GS is not that strong, and although I agree it's the other side of the coin, I will always defend mine until I'm proven wrong (until GoI appear again and they're trashed again by another spriggan like Ajeel or Jacob).
you don't understand. I understand your point. I am basically talking about how you felt insulted, when I compared your arguing style to another poster. I Know how you came up with your argument.
but to me, at that time, it felt something
look, ajeel had trouble with erza, right'?
serena stomps three erzas plus jura
thus serena >>> ajeel @Char looks around with a smug expression, as if he has proven Einstein wrong.
I am not talking about your argument, it makes some sense, I am just talking about the way you did it
By that same token, can you please give proof that Laxus hasn't always been one tier above Erza, and Erza one tier above Natsu, up until moreorless Tartaros arc? I think it's pretty straightforward: the series began with an Erza who was superior to Natsu, and that gap was enclosing bit by bit until we arrived at Tartaros where it's likely that gap was ALMOST non-existant. Also, Laxus has always been one tier above Erza since she herself mentioned it'd take her + Mira (or 2x her) to take Jura down, who is around as strong as GMG Laxus.
Unfortunately, Laxus and Erza haven't fought a same opponent with different outcomes. Both were trashed by Hades but Laxus performed MUCH better. Laxus lowdiffed a tartaros demon, Erza extremediffed one (although Kyoka was stronger than Tempesta so it's hard to make an assumption). Laxus beat Jura, Erza mentioned it'd take her + Mira (or 2x her) to MAYBE take him down. In this arc, Laxus could casually beat a spriggan (Ajeel) and Erza couldn't do so without outer help and even then, she extreme diffed...
technically, the one who makes the claim, must prove it. especially, if you are basing your argument on the said calim, then you want solid footing for your argument.
but of course, I can make my point.
yes, laxus performed better than erza against hades. he should have, wasn't erza already wrecked before she even saw hades. I think it was some five pages before hades fight, that erza was having trouble taking a step.
do think it really is a fair comparison, to compare someone who was involved in four conflicts and was seriously injured against a fresh person.
the jura hype. its the most accepted hype in fairy tail history. it probably a lot to do with people being baised against erza and love for laxus.
let me give you some details, which you might have forgotten.
these kinds of hype are pretty common in fairy tail.
erza thought natsuz plus gray could defeat erigor if they work together
erza once said the phantom have nearly same amount of power as fairy tail has. well I don't remember what words she used. and yes she was including laxus and mystogan in her hype.
she also said that alliance must not fight one on one against OS members at any cost. agiain I don't remember the exact words.
Hades also thought grimeroe heart would destroy fiary tail memebers
marakarov tried to make natsu run away against zancrow
laxus thought evergreen could take out erza. was pretty pissed at her when she lost.
the point is hypes where villains are compared to the fairy tail members, are generally always false.
but there is more. this hype was made in gmg arc. an arc full with silly hype.
like sting and rogue were individually stronger than natsu according to the gmg guide. df sting and his feats had people crapping themselves. but you know how that turned out.
and then the background of specific jura hype
erza didn't say anything
it was mira
it was before jellal fought jura. basically someone ask if jura was that strong, she said she wasn't sure whether she with erza could defeat jura. mystogan name was announced as jura opponent. laxus said to jellal, you are pretty unlucky.
other things you ought to know. mavis couldnt think of way to defeat jura.
mira never saw jura in action. hell, she hasn't seen much erza action either. erza is still without SO.
one can make a claim that jura hype was based on his reputation or maybe mp. but we already saw, markarov after seeing ajeel and fairy tail members, thought ajeel would wreck all of them.
so if mp was used, we have that much margin error.
jura was by hype strongest opponent in GMG, but hé probably wont be defeating erza plus mira.
to balance this out. mishma gave next two strongest opponent to erza. so yeah, laxus could be stronger than erza, but not to same extent as erza was stronger than natsu
there are other comparisons too.
like only three people fought ws tier opponent in gmg. jellal, pre SO erza and laxus.
on the last day laxus and erza were shown in triple threat match. both having one person from Minerva list and one who was said to be the strongest in sabbertooth.
both tried to blitz their opponent and failed.
but while laxus got stalemated by Ogra who was then defeated by jura. erza pretty much defeated both kagura and Minerva. their opponent however took point for the first defeat (ogra and kagura).
you kinda have proven
that laxus > erza (though it not very solid proof)
you still haven't shown that gap of power should be same. as erza and natsu gap
erza one shot aria while she was wrecked. while natsu was getting beaten up by blinded aria.
in that fight nothing was said about advantage, other than aria attacks were invisible, which is below ajeel doing invisible attacks when he himself was invisible.
in OS arc, when gray and natsu charged at OS. racer blitzed not only natsu, but gray and three other fodders in one go. Any non bias person would agree that is more impressive than jellal blitzing only natsu.
the same racer tried to blitz erza from behind, she dodged him. and she wasn't even looking at him. she was focusing on cobra. and yet still she dodged him. next panel you will see erza attacking both of them till hot eye intervened. even though it only took one racer to take down natsu. that's the gap.
if you want more, you can look at portrayal. or how gajeel was fighting on par with lily and next arc a weaker version of erza opponent one shot him
the gap here is huge.
laxus erza gap is not even talked about or shown in the manga.
but you know how people see it.
the gap between erza and natsu is small, like very small.
and gap between erza and laxus is huge
and based on what jura hype and frash laxus compared to wrecked erza.
we know laxus cant one shot natsu without atleast above mid tier spell. like dragon roar.
we know wrecked erza one shot a guy whose weaker version was beating natsu up.
if portrayal and plot wasn't an issue here. erza would have been solid teir above laxus not the other way around
now look above at arguments. how many assumptions did I made?
Now for Natsu and Erza, in this arc, we don't have straightforward evidence of their gap so nothing can be said for sure, only assumptions. So, you can assume Erza is still superior to Natsu and I can assume otherwise.
However, there are some feats that prove that Natsu is probably above Erza: Natsu casually oneshotted a WS tier (could Erza do that? Maybe she could low-mid diff a WS tier but could she oneshot?). Natsu defeated Ikusatsunagi, a war of god as big as a city who had multimountain busting attacks, and he didn't do so with his strongest attack. He lowdiffed: can Erza do that? I doubt so.
In the current arc, Erza needed her strongest attack AFTER a jupiter canon shot to defeat a spriggan, while Natsu ONLY needed his strongest attack, FDK demolition fist. IMO Natsu is currently slightly above Erza although not by a big gap.
Bad news for Erza: Natsu can probably melt anything she throws at him + she can't get close as she'd recoil in pain from the heat. Erza is a bad match for Natsu.
That's partially right. However Laxus defeated Wahl with an attack which was not his strongest attack. Actually it was an attack that could compete with a regular lightning attack, but the element was different and that is what trashed Wahl, who was not immune to that particular element. That is but an assumption, but since we have no feats that prove that red lightning is his strongest attack, then we can only provide assumptions.
Laxus had double disadvantage: being injured in the inside + his enemy being immune to his magic. But then he had a CiS powerup: he was given lightning by his enemy. So let's say he was only in ONE disadvantage to equate it out. He still won, on his own.
Erza had Bisca backing her up and hadn't it been for Jupiter canon, we KNOW FOR A FACT she'd have been beheaded.
Gajeel was incapable of hurting Wahl at all until PiS saved him up: after he absorbed the iron in MBPs he could MAGICALLY harm Brad.
If you ask me, the one who had less ass pull overall was Laxus.
Erza is stupidly versatile. While most mages only have one element (fire for Natsu, lightning for Laxus (although now he has red lightning)), Erza has various elements.
To begin with I'll say you cannot rank his swords as low mid or high tier cause we don't have evidence to claim so.
We can't consider Erza in a disadvantage because she was not a proper counter, SHE WAS. She is a counter for many mages snce she has various elements at her disposal. If this was, say, Jura vs Ajeel, we could say Jura is a bad match cause he doesn't have a counter.
It's as if you say: Wendy is a bad counter for Ajeel, because she doesn't have any strong enough attack to dispel his sandworld... Well that doesn't mean she's a bad match/she was at a disadvantage, it just means she's weaker.
there are couple of things I want to mention here.
Nakagami was her pr skip most powerful attack, not necessary for this time period.
but just like laxus lightening didn't work on wahl, no matter the power.
erza swords wouldn't work on ajeel, unless specific conditions were met and power isn't one of them. even if erza was as strong as laxus.
red lightening is lightening that surpasses lightening, I doubt its a casual attack, like that nuke was. it might actually be his strongest attack. but we don't know that yet.
same can be said about erza.
but I don't think ajeel fight was something that showed how powerful erza was, so I will wait till the arc end. another thing you should. erza fight happens at the end of arcs normally
Erza was already injured before sandworld which means Erza received hits before it.
Erza is not at a disadvantage for Ajeel, she's just weaker than him.
Gajeel is not at a disadvantage for Bradman, he doesn't have a counter
Laxus IS at a disadvantage against Wahl, because his magic won't work on him. He's not at a disadvantage anymore cause he's got an element that does hurt him.
ajeel only landed hits when marin intervened, or he disappeared in sand world. he couldn't touch erza otherwise, because high reaction speed and wind armor.
she is versatile yes, but doesn't mean she can beat natsu with water empress armor. to go all out she should be allowed to use all her strength
how is erza weaker than ajeel? does he hit harder than erza?
I suppose I need explain what i consider disadvantage. when gajeel punches juvia, but he cant hurt her at all because of intangibility, and starts losing in the fight because he has nothing that can hurt juvia. he doesn't have counter for her water body. I consider that a disadvantage, juvia is not stronger than him, but has one weird power that is making gajeel lose. its just a bad matchup for gajeel. same happened against bradman, same happened against wahl, and almiost same happened against ajeel.
people can fight in specific ways, when one person has ability that other can not deal with, it doenst make them stronger in some sense of word. Jacob with transport and dimeria with age seal and macro are extreme example of this.
I consider that bad matchup because you cant see clearly who is stronger.
take erza vs ajeel as an example
ajeel couldn't hit erza. erza couldn't hit him. their speed and reaction speed are pretty good. then erza with wind advantage started winning, but then ajeel with sand world disappeared from erza sight. using that he almost won against erza. so he basically won, when erza couldn't show her brute strength.
to me, that's not a good way to jugde strength of anyone. maybe ajeel but not erza
I think wind god sword and water god sword are mid tier. because they didn't get hype like armudura, benzikuru and Nakagami got (not like purgatory either). Nakagami is high tier and it sent ajeel flying out of the city. much farther than how far natsu sent Jacob with his high tier spell.
I don't consider Jupiter at all strong. it was compared, in manga, to gmg kagura strike. and not her unsheathed one.
That doesn't mean she didn't go all out, that just means that the magics that could affect Ajeel weren't strong enough to do so. It's as if you say: "Erza is a disadvantage because she has no counter for an enchantment that turns her into a mouse". Well, she's not in a disadvantage she's just plainly weak to do something against it.
Line or poof speed are drawing resources to show that a character was there at a certain moment then he was so fast he's not there anymore and he leaves an afterimage (in form of lines, sometimes just dust raising up). Showcases tremendous speed.
Are you dense? Erza wand co went through some training before they went to Celestial Spirit World and they aso got 2nd origin, Gray made it clear that Laxus and Gildarts were the only ones who could compete as they were without any power ups.
My argument starts with statements from the manga and your mad? LOOL. Wind is>>Fire and it's stated in the Eigor fight, you say that like it isn't relevant. All your arguments consist of saying manga statements aren't credible, again you're trash at this. The fact you're trying to insult Freed to downplay my argument only shows this even more.
You don't reply because at this point you can't bullshit even more.
No you are dense
erza did compete in tournament without so. She released it only against Minerva at the very end.
No, you choose to believe selective statements.
Erigor saying his power, wind magic is superior after using his most strongest spell to dispel natsu most weakest spell.
But of course you wont believe demon as they clearly state their power, curse is stronger than magic
@Woodenstool You just don't want to admit you are wrong. Even the mod who set up this poll aka @Brandish DIRECTLY said it was about how powerful he is -_-. And why would a poll about 'how good a villain he is' be in a 'Power Ranking' thread? Can you just stop bashing on other people because, according to your perspective, they are 'wrong'?
Yeah well, the opinion of the majority eventually outweigths the opinion of the minority. Looks like my arguments weren't so flawed. Also, what @Dranzer, @Laxus chan-yo said.
He wasn't a threat to Fairy Tail making him a bad villain and the poll is constructed improperly. Mard Geer is still the best villain in this story, Acnologia on the other hand is just retard killing people for no reason.
That is NOT what the poll aims, but well, as a villain, God Serena is just stupid. He deserted his country of origin and his backstory hasn't been developed so we don't know why. He probably was just greedy with power and he went to Zeref in order to get more.
Now tell me how you feel about God Serena. And we've never seen God Serena at his max so ranking him high based on hype is not a valid reason. We can only rank him on what we seen, took out 4 hyped mages, got melted, sprayed water and got mountain busted. eZ.
When characters are featless we rank them according to hype until feats are provided. People are ranking Invel and he's more featless than Serena. Heck some people even ranked Larcade.
Also, Zeref is featless (as in, he hasn't fought anyone bar Igneel Natsu, whose strength hasn't been compared to anyone else either) but still we like to rank him higher than the rest of the spriggans because of hype/portrayal (since he's the captain).
see, this is what I mean. everyone and their mothers are stomping erza these days. if Jacob is cqc specialist, you should have said something like his cqc should be above laxus cqc. why is everytime someone might be good at something, erza get thrown in the trash can.
Don't use the strawman fallacy on me please. I never said Erza is trash. She's strong, she'd probably rank 1 in the WS now, only being below God Serena but above Hyberion, it's just that Natsu and probably Gray are likely stronger than her nowadays.
Never mentioned that Jacob's cqc should be above Laxus'.
you don't understand. I understand your point. I am basically talking about how you felt insulted, when I compared your arguing style to another poster. I Know how you came up with your argument.
but to me, at that time, it felt something
look, ajeel had trouble with erza, right'?
serena stomps three erzas plus jura
thus serena >>> ajeel @Char looks around with a smug expression, as if he has proven Einstein wrong.
I am not talking about your argument, it makes some sense, I am just talking about the way you did it
technically, the one who makes the claim, must prove it. especially, if you are basing your argument on the said calim, then you want solid footing for your argument.
but of course, I can make my point.
yes, laxus performed better than erza against hades. he should have, wasn't erza already wrecked before she even saw hades. I think it was some five pages before hades fight, that erza was having trouble taking a step.
do think it really is a fair comparison, to compare someone who was involved in four conflicts and was seriously injured against a fresh person.
You teaching me how to make an argument when I have a university degree which mainly consists on making arguments well backed up and with sources... right...
Erza had got the Tenrou tree advantage + had backup from the main cast so it was the main cast vs Hades (not only Erza) and yet Laxus performed much better. Why are we discussing about this though? This was ages ago.
these kinds of hype are pretty common in fairy tail.
erza thought natsuz plus gray could defeat erigor if they work together
erza once said the phantom have nearly same amount of power as fairy tail has. well I don't remember what words she used. and yes she was including laxus and mystogan in her hype.
she also said that alliance must not fight one on one against OS members at any cost. agiain I don't remember the exact words.
Hades also thought grimeroe heart would destroy fiary tail memebers
marakarov tried to make natsu run away against zancrow
laxus thought evergreen could take out erza. was pretty pissed at her when she lost.
Quite true but then, what, we shouldn't pay attention to hype at all? so if one character says "x is stronger than y", we should say "nope, y is stronger than x and that's it"? I don't think it works that way. I think hype works until feats prove it (or prove otherwise).
For example, Natsu had grown quite a LOT in little time by the time the series started, but Erza hadn't seen him in action in a long time so she didn't quite know how much he had improved, that's why the Natsu she knew + the Gray she knew could beat Erigor together. In the end Natsu could do so on his own, it only proves Erza hadn't worked with Natsu in a long time.
Erza wasn't completely wrong about phantom. When she made such an assumption, I want to think she implied "the regular members of Fairy Tail", not taking into account Laxus + Thunder God Tribe and Mystgun (who were never around). If she didn't include them, then she wasn't that wrong either: Gajeel and Natsu were pretty much equals, Erza was stronger than Aria but the latter managed to DEFEAT the master in round 1, Gray was slightly superior to an angry Juvia, Elfman was having a hard time against Sol until he awakened his true powers, Totomaru actually gave Natsu some trouble, Mirajane was useless by that time, and the fodders of FT could compare to the fodders of PL. Also, Makarov was superior to José but theoretically, not by much. So that wasn't so biased, Phantom Lord was indeed, in a way, Fairy Tail's equal.
Also alliance vs O6, they were initially trashed, so she was pretty much right about it.
Grimoire Heart would've likely destroyed all Fairy Tail members.
Zancrow was superior to Natsu in everything until Natsu outsmarted him and swallowed his flames up so it was nice advice from the old man.
Laxus wasn't so wrong since he couldn't have known stone eyes wouldn't have worked on her because she's only got one eye.
So it's not like such hypes are false, they're just a little bit flawed or they don't have 100% of info to be right. But they're to be taken into account.
like sting and rogue were individually stronger than natsu according to the gmg guide. df sting and his feats had people crapping themselves. but you know how that turned out.
one can make a claim that jura hype was based on his reputation or maybe mp. but we already saw, markarov after seeing ajeel and fairy tail members, thought ajeel would wreck all of them.
It's different. Makarov had time to catch up with everything when he was back from Tenrou and before the GMG. He had a talk with Jura, he probably read a lot, etc. And still he was a little bit flawed since he said Jura = Glidartz (which was not true). Ofc they can be wrong, after all, Makarov hadn't seen Jura in action, and he hadn't seen Glidartz in action in a long time (bfeore beginning of series likely) so he was just saying "they might/should be around there" not necessarily implying they're as powerful, exactly.
When it comes to Ajeel, he hadn't seen his kids for one year, he compared Ajeel to their old selves and, well, he made sense. their Tartaros selves couldn't have done shit against Ajeel. Also MP is like under lock and key until they actually begin to use it, for some characters at least. Makarov was surprised at Gray and Lucy AFTER they went Devil S mode and Stardress which means their MP raised only then.
Then, you begin to bring proof that Erza >/>> Natsu (in PL, O6). I agree with it, it was my point in my previous post.
the gap here is huge.
laxus erza gap is not even talked about or shown in the manga.
but you know how people see it.
the gap between erza and natsu is small, like very small.
and gap between erza and laxus is huge
I don't think people think the gap between Erza and Natsu is very small and between Eraz and Laxus is huge by the beginning of series, I think it's a one tier gap for both.
we know laxus cant one shot natsu without atleast above mid tier spell. like dragon roar.
we know wrecked erza one shot a guy whose weaker version was beating natsu up.
if portrayal and plot wasn't an issue here. erza would have been solid teir above laxus not the other way around
Two different Natsus here, state of mind. Erza said "if you unleash your true power you can be more powerful than me" in PL. Then he fought Gajeel and won. But he was very angry about seeing Lucy trashed like that, so that Natsu > the Natsu that fought Aria. Also, that Natsu = the Natsu that fought Laxus.
When Natsu is angry and going all out the gpa between himself and Erza closes a little; whereas Erza doesn't need to be very angry to be as powerful as she is.
but I don't think ajeel fight was something that showed how powerful erza was, so I will wait till the arc end. another thing you should. erza fight happens at the end of arcs normally
Erza was factually going all out so any illogical powerup she receives without a solid reason behind it now would be PiS. She cannot defeat a Spriggan unless it's a very weak one (Neinheart maybe), there's no way she could take on Irene as she is now.
You were making a lot of sense in your post up to here. I shouldn't even state the reasons why Erza is weaker than Ajeel.
In CQC, Ajeel is slightly faster and is very strong (could raise her from the neck, could dispel Jupiter bare handedly, could keep up with her cqc style). His magic is over hers: he's got the dehydrating hax, he's got intangibility, he's got sand world. He's also got more MP. There's not a single area in which Erza outclasses him. Not even having the element advantage could Erza do anything more than putting a scratch on him.
I suppose I need explain what i consider disadvantage. when gajeel punches juvia, but he cant hurt her at all because of intangibility, and starts losing in the fight because he has nothing that can hurt juvia. he doesn't have counter for her water body. I consider that a disadvantage, juvia is not stronger than him, but has one weird power that is making gajeel lose. its just a bad matchup for gajeel. same happened against bradman, same happened against wahl, and almiost same happened against ajeel.
Good point but there's a difference: someone having intangibility (being a counter to 95% of the verse) and someone having "x" immunity (being a counter to 0,01% of the verse). For me, Laxus fighting Wahl was just Laxus at a disadvantage. Gajeel fighting Bradman was certainly that too, but in the end, everyone would be...
when one person has ability that other can not deal with, it doenst make them stronger in some sense of word. Jacob with transport and dimeria with age seal and macro are extreme example of this.
Erza did everything she could, used everything was at her disposal, yet she could not beat Ajeel on her own, I don't know what you're trying to prove here.
It doesn't take the same amount of strength to cut something in half, than to deintegrate it. So no, Kagura can CUT through a certain object but not deintegrate it; Jupiter can.
@Woodenstool You just don't want to admit you are wrong. Even the mod who set up this poll aka @Brandish DIRECTLY said it was about how powerful he is -_-. And why would a poll about 'how good a villain he is' be in a 'Power Ranking' thread? Can you just stop bashing on other people because, according to your perspective, they are 'wrong'?
To be clear this poll is from the God Serena thread, so @Dranzer was actually the person who set the poll up. And he's confirmed what the poll means, which is what you said it is.
@Woodenstool I kindly refer you to Dranzer's posts on the previous pages.
@Woodenstool But if God Serena is really that weak according to you, Gildarts ain't that strong at all since he was damaged by him. Such a shame that Gildarts is a low tier Fairy Tail mage now ;-;
Yeah well, the opinion of the majority eventually outweigths the opinion of the minority. Looks like my arguments weren't so flawed. Also, what @Dranzer, @Laxus chan-yo said.
"How strong is God Serena? (In terms of villains)"
What do you base on to class Mard Geer as the best villain in this story, and Acnologia "just a retard"?
That is NOT what the poll aims, but well, as a villain, God Serena is just stupid. He deserted his country of origin and his backstory hasn't been developed so we don't know why. He probably was just greedy with power and he went to Zeref in order to get more8.
Was this Mard Geer's doing?
When characters are featless we rank them according to hype until feats are provided. People are ranking Invel and he's more featless than Serena. Heck some people even ranked Larcade.
Also, Zeref is featless (as in, he hasn't fought anyone bar Igneel Natsu, whose strength hasn't been compared to anyone else either) but still we like to rank him higher than the rest of the spriggans because of hype/portrayal (since he's the captain).
Woodenstool at it again
Yeah, he sprayed water that was overwhelming the main cast being at less of 50% power lol anyway...
Those would be top end.
Don't use the strawman fallacy on me please. I never said Erza is trash. She's strong, she'd probably rank 1 in the WS now, only being below God Serena but above Hyberion, it's just that Natsu and probably Gray are likely stronger than her nowadays.
Never mentioned that Jacob's cqc should be above Laxus'.
I was kidding but let's admit it, being compared to Woodenstool is quite an insult XD
You teaching me how to make an argument when I have a university degree which mainly consists on making arguments well backed up and with sources... right...
Erza had got the Tenrou tree advantage + had backup from the main cast so it was the main cast vs Hades (not only Erza) and yet Laxus performed much better. Why are we discussing about this though? This was ages ago.
Quite true but then, what, we shouldn't pay attention to hype at all? so if one character says "x is stronger than y", we should say "nope, y is stronger than x and that's it"? I don't think it works that way. I think hype works until feats prove it (or prove otherwise).
For example, Natsu had grown quite a LOT in little time by the time the series started, but Erza hadn't seen him in action in a long time so she didn't quite know how much he had improved, that's why the Natsu she knew + the Gray she knew could beat Erigor together. In the end Natsu could do so on his own, it only proves Erza hadn't worked with Natsu in a long time.
Erza wasn't completely wrong about phantom. When she made such an assumption, I want to think she implied "the regular members of Fairy Tail", not taking into account Laxus + Thunder God Tribe and Mystgun (who were never around). If she didn't include them, then she wasn't that wrong either: Gajeel and Natsu were pretty much equals, Erza was stronger than Aria but the latter managed to DEFEAT the master in round 1, Gray was slightly superior to an angry Juvia, Elfman was having a hard time against Sol until he awakened his true powers, Totomaru actually gave Natsu some trouble, Mirajane was useless by that time, and the fodders of FT could compare to the fodders of PL. Also, Makarov was superior to José but theoretically, not by much. So that wasn't so biased, Phantom Lord was indeed, in a way, Fairy Tail's equal.
Also alliance vs O6, they were initially trashed, so she was pretty much right about it.
Grimoire Heart would've likely destroyed all Fairy Tail members.
Zancrow was superior to Natsu in everything until Natsu outsmarted him and swallowed his flames up so it was nice advice from the old man.
Laxus wasn't so wrong since he couldn't have known stone eyes wouldn't have worked on her because she's only got one eye.
So it's not like such hypes are false, they're just a little bit flawed or they don't have 100% of info to be right. But they're to be taken into account.
The GMG guide was written by Jason who didn't know s**t about Natsu's true power.
She trusted Laxus was strong enough to take him on.
It's different. Makarov had time to catch up with everything when he was back from Tenrou and before the GMG. He had a talk with Jura, he probably read a lot, etc. And still he was a little bit flawed since he said Jura = Glidartz (which was not true). Ofc they can be wrong, after all, Makarov hadn't seen Jura in action, and he hadn't seen Glidartz in action in a long time (bfeore beginning of series likely) so he was just saying "they might/should be around there" not necessarily implying they're as powerful, exactly.
When it comes to Ajeel, he hadn't seen his kids for one year, he compared Ajeel to their old selves and, well, he made sense. their Tartaros selves couldn't have done shit against Ajeel. Also MP is like under lock and key until they actually begin to use it, for some characters at least. Makarov was surprised at Gray and Lucy AFTER they went Devil S mode and Stardress which means their MP raised only then.
Then, you begin to bring proof that Erza >/>> Natsu (in PL, O6). I agree with it, it was my point in my previous post.
I don't think people think the gap between Erza and Natsu is very small and between Eraz and Laxus is huge by the beginning of series, I think it's a one tier gap for both.
Two different Natsus here, state of mind. Erza said "if you unleash your true power you can be more powerful than me" in PL. Then he fought Gajeel and won. But he was very angry about seeing Lucy trashed like that, so that Natsu > the Natsu that fought Aria. Also, that Natsu = the Natsu that fought Laxus.
When Natsu is angry and going all out the gpa between himself and Erza closes a little; whereas Erza doesn't need to be very angry to be as powerful as she is.
Which means, she is weaker than Ajeel because even when she had the element advantage, she was powerless against sandworld.
Erza was factually going all out so any illogical powerup she receives without a solid reason behind it now would be PiS. She cannot defeat a Spriggan unless it's a very weak one (Neinheart maybe), there's no way she could take on Irene as she is now.
Again, because she's too weak to do so, but she'll perform better in that armor than in, say, fire pants.
You were making a lot of sense in your post up to here. I shouldn't even state the reasons why Erza is weaker than Ajeel.
In CQC, Ajeel is slightly faster and is very strong (could raise her from the neck, could dispel Jupiter bare handedly, could keep up with her cqc style). His magic is over hers: he's got the dehydrating hax, he's got intangibility, he's got sand world. He's also got more MP. There's not a single area in which Erza outclasses him. Not even having the element advantage could Erza do anything more than putting a scratch on him.
Good point but there's a difference: someone having intangibility (being a counter to 95% of the verse) and someone having "x" immunity (being a counter to 0,01% of the verse). For me, Laxus fighting Wahl was just Laxus at a disadvantage. Gajeel fighting Bradman was certainly that too, but in the end, everyone would be...
I agree but Erza is not particularly weak to sand and she does have two counters for it yet she lost. Explanation: she's weaker than him.
Scratchless
Injured.
And that was before sandworld.
Erza did everything she could, used everything was at her disposal, yet she could not beat Ajeel on her own, I don't know what you're trying to prove here.
Slash strength =/= firepower strength.
It doesn't take the same amount of strength to cut something in half, than to deintegrate it. So no, Kagura can CUT through a certain object but not deintegrate it; Jupiter can.
What even are you trying to say? Natsu hasn't shown line speed and he's faster than DF Wendy (probably).
You really shouldn't have wasted your one hour.
all you did was make alot of assumptions to make your point look valid.
Where did you get you degree? Or have you forgotten what you learned there? You only provided one source, which proves my point. Not yours. And you got alot of things straight up wrong.
Lets start
Hype should be maybe accepted till there are no feats. If feats are there, hype should be compared with the feats to get a more accurate result.
Jura hype is Mira plus erza level, ok?
But he lost to laxus
Is laxus Mira plus erza level? No he is not, he is stronger than gajeel and natsu, both are considerably weaker than erza.
Thus, this hype is proven wrong.
Now, you have to prove laxus = mira + erza
To make that hype acceptable. Can you do that ?
Hades fight against wrecked fairy tail team, who did not have the tree power (you got this wrong).
To put this in perspective, nearly everyone on that team fought nearly three to four enemies, or were at least involved in a conflict of that number.
Laxus exchanged three to four blows with mystogan, one or two blows with erza, fought natsu and gajeel, did fairy law
At this point he wasn't injured much
Then natsu defeated him.
Another example
Final day of GMG, after fairy tail were involved in comparable around two conflicts for each member.
Sting, the guy natsu stomped along with rogou, was shown in a such a way, that he would beat laxus + erza + gray + gajeel + juvia
The audience looked like that sting was gonna beat them all. That what mishma showed us.
Due to this sting gave up, instead of fighting and possibly winning.
Even more
Next day, erza was shown extremely weak
These examples are manga facts. I am not making any assumption that someone should be stronger than this or not this is what the author showed.
Do you really want to use Hades example to show this gap between erza and laxus. do you not see how reliable that conclusion would be? what did you learn in this university you went to?
what other example can you use to show your tier gap between laxus and erza.
when they fought each other, they stalemated. laxus easily blocked erza kick and erza casually blocked laxus magic attaxk at point blank range
mishma didn't show the gap, then either
then lets talk about natsu
angry natsu > normal natsu
that is correct. unfortunately your habits of trying to make assumptions instead relaying on facts made you make another mistake
natsu when fighting with gajeel was more angrier than when he fought aria. that is correct
but the natsu blinded aria was beating, was more desperate than the natsu who started fightimg laxus and also trying to rearrange his face
by your logic, which is kinda correct
natsu (from gajeel fight) > natsu (from blinded aria beat down) > natsu (the one strted fighting laxus, and happily landed some hits)
of course erza didn't one shot blinded aria, she one shot aria. when she her self was wrecked with a mid tier attack
we really have to bend backwards to even think laxus might be stronger than erza here
how do you, make a tier gap between erza and laxus. without making million assumption. especially if you think natsu and erza also have the same tier gap.
please show me what makes you believe this. and I hope you wont be only using assumptions to get to your already desired result.
I would ask you not to start with the result, and then to make everything lead to that result by doing different things.
Start from manga shows from start and then tell me what result you see, with no assumptions from your part
Let me address what more you wrote.
Against phantom guild, she compared s class with s class. And dragon slayer with dragon slayer
That means laxus and mystogan were included
Thus hype wrong
If Jason didn't know anything about anything about natsu. then how did Mira know anything about jura, or Hades know anything about fairy tail members or erza knew anything about phantom guild
Why didn't everyone read a book
The fact is many hypes are wrong that is how you rank laxus above hyrion now
And jura losing to laxus shouldnt just mean laxus is stronger than erza or something like that. More feats should be there which are lacking. There should be some laxus hype above erza, which is also lacking
Thus why this hype should also be false.
When I gave you examples of so many hypes. I tried to show you, that when all we know is Mira only saw jura. Never seen him do magic and anything. She made that hype. That was my main point
Now for erza vs ajeel
If wind god sword is mid tier attack (because no hype was given to it like others got) and if ajeel is erza equal in power than
Ajeel high tier attack should over power her mid tier counter.
Do you think this logic has something wrong with it
If magic counters everyone, then plot kicks in. hax users are never the strongest that why its hard to rank them
I don't agree with ajeel being stronger. why
Well first
Ajeel is faster than non red sweat pant erza and souring armor erza.
But his reaction speed is below erza which is like very important in fights
Ajeel picked erza up with one hand
Um
Couple of points to note
1) ajeel can weaken human by just touching. he can turn things made of metal in dust in minutes like erza swords, gajeel, Wahl
2) ajeel was hiding in the sand world and then managed to grab erza neck when she couldn't see him
3) elfman ran around carrying the entire natsu team
So I obviously I can't use such silly things like him picking erza up as good comparison stick
Instead, to measure power, I look at attack powers. Since erza has more devastating attack. thus that goes to erza
Yes ajeel has more mp than laxus.
Now another amusing part
Your evidence,
you showed how erza went form non scratch to heavly scratched
What is erza saying in the last panel
"why can't I use my requips!?"
That is Marin helping kill erza, that is the only way ajeel can hurt her, short of hiding from her sight and attacking her not exactly exactly way for a stronger person to fight
What are you talking about . Erza with Bisca help defeated ajeel with marin help. Erza did not lose.
If you want to talk about before Jupiter
Than yes erza kinda lost, though she is conscious and still doing magic. But what ever
In that case Erza loses to ajeel plus marin
Ajeel without marin help or hiding from erza sight cannot hurt erza
neither wahl nor serena can do those things
So if you arent downgrading her than she has huge possibility of beating these two solo
Nor are they immune to erza magic
If erza is serious against natsu she will be using Nakagami benzikuru or armudura not water empress
Those aren't strong armors
Of course plot will help erza against Eileen but if you don't downgrade erza like saying Jacob is probably better than erza in cqc (your assumption). If you think he is cqc specialist then you can say Jacob has better cqc than laxus (another assumption, not any stupider one but less bias since most fan base are biased toward laxus)
Then erza putting up a fight against Eileen wont look that stupid
@Woodenstool But if God Serena is really that weak according to you, Gildarts ain't that strong at all since he was damaged by him. Such a shame that Gildarts is a low tier Fairy Tail mage now ;-;
Gildarts headbutt God Serena, I'm pretty sure if you headbutt someone you get damaged as well. And he wasn't damaged, a few marks on the face doesn't mean hes hurt. Gildarts broke all his spells then used mountain busting punch on his ugly ass. eZ.
Gildarts headbutt God Serena, I'm pretty sure if you headbutt someone you get damaged as well. And he wasn't damaged, a few marks on the face doesn't mean hes hurt. Gildarts broke all his spells then used mountain busting punch on his ugly ass. eZ.
Really hate to butt in your debate, but I wanna address a few points. Actually, I wanna address all your points, but I don't have the time nor patience for that so I'm just gonna stick to the points that stood out.
Lets start
Hype should be maybe accepted till there are no feats. If feats are there, hype should be compared with the feats to get a more accurate result.
Jura hype is Mira plus erza level, ok?
But he lost to laxus
Is laxus Mira plus erza level? No he is not, he is stronger than gajeel and natsu, both are considerably weaker than erza.
Thus, this hype is proven wrong.
Laxus exchanged three to four blows with mystogan, one or two blows with erza, fought natsu and gajeel, did fairy law
At this point he wasn't injured much
Then natsu defeated him.
what other example can you use to show your tier gap between laxus and erza.
when they fought each other, they stalemated. laxus easily blocked erza kick and erza casually blocked laxus magic attaxk at point blank range
mishma didn't show the gap, then either
The fight consisted off Erza throwing a kick at Laxus who blocked it and tossed her aside like she was a pest. After that she left the fight up to Natsu and went to destroy the floating lacrimas. "Stalemate" is a stretch. Not to mention that Laxus wasn't anywhere near full power at the time.
but the natsu blinded aria was beating, was more desperate than the natsu who started fightimg laxus and also trying to rearrange his face
by your logic, which is kinda correct
natsu (from gajeel fight) > natsu (from blinded aria beat down) > natsu (the one strted fighting laxus, and happily landed some hits)
Proof that Natsu was more desperate in his fight vs Aria? In his fight vs Aria and his fight vs Laxus he wanted to acheive the same thing: to save Fairy Tail.
And jura losing to laxus shouldnt just mean laxus is stronger than erza or something like that. More feats should be there which are lacking. There should be some laxus hype above erza, which is also lacking
Ugh, yes it does... Both GMG Jura and GMG Laxus have better feats and hype than GMG Erza. How is Laxus lacking hype that puts him above Erza? Throughout the whole manga Laxus has always been portrayed and implied to have been above Erza.
I don't agree with ajeel being stronger. why
Well first
Ajeel is faster than non red sweat pant erza and souring armor erza.
But his reaction speed is below erza which is like very important in fights
So Ajeel isn't stronger than Erza because his reaction is below hers?? Ok... Also, aren't you the king of "stop using assumptions"? Saying that Ajeel's reaction speed is below Erza's is one huge assumption.
Of course plot will help erza against Eileen but if you don't downgrade erza like saying Jacob is probably better than erza in cqc (your assumption). If you think he is cqc specialist then you can say Jacob has better cqc than laxus (another assumption, not any stupider one but less bias since most fan base are biased toward laxus)
Then erza putting up a fight against Eileen wont look that stupid
Jacob was dominating Lucy and Natsu when it came to CQC. Yes, Natsu was said to be holding back, but that was only for the amount of firepower he was putting in his punches. He had no reason to hold back in pure CQC. Jacob's feat of dominating Natsu and Lucy in CQC >>> any of Erza's CQC feats atm.
You're not that good of a debater tbh, I'm not the only one who thinks so. When I give my arguments I always say that I may be wrong, thing which you don't do, and you should, cause you're often wrong. Humility does not kill people.
Lets start
Hype should be maybe accepted till there are no feats. If feats are there, hype should be compared with the feats to get a more accurate result.
Jura hype is Mira plus erza level, ok?
But he lost to laxus
Is laxus Mira plus erza level?
Are you saying that GMG Mira+Erza > GMG Laxus BUT GMG Laxus > GMG Gajeel + Natsu? And you're the one who asks for proof? Pls, you give me proof since you're so good a debater and I don't deserve my degree.
Can you prove otherwise? You probably can't. I can try to prove that though:
Hype: If Laxus >= Jura and Jura >= Erza+Mira, then Laxus >= Erza+Mira or even Laxus > Erza+Mira.
Feats: Tartaros Jura beat Tempesta low difficulty. Erza beat Kyoka extreme diff.
Stats of 9DG:
Mard Geer Tartaros: 46,400 Kyoka: 19,900
Silver: 17,500
Seilah: 14,400
Keith: 11,200
Torafuzar: 10,500 Tempesta: 9,800
Jackal: 8,400
Franmalth: 8,200
Ezel: 7,800
Lahmy: 2,300
Kyoka = 2x Tempesta
If we asume every 2x stronger means a scale of difficulty, then we have that Laxus would mid diff Kyoka, but Erza extreme diff, so GMG Laxus >> GMG Erza. Now it makes sense to say GMG Laxus >= 2x GMG Erza or GMG Laxus >= GMG Mira + Erza.
This is all ASSUMPTIONS. I'm open to the possibility of being wrong. I may well be wrong. But I provided evidence. Can you do that? Or you suggest I should still go get another degree? Does it feel like I'm making assumptions to prove my point valid, or is this a fact? Cause I'm not trying to prove anything, I don't really care if Laxus is > or < Erza or Mira we're talking GMG here, and I'm not interested in it anymore so if I'm wrong well be it.
To put this in perspective, nearly everyone on that team fought nearly three to four enemies, or were at least involved in a conflict of that number.
Laxus exchanged three to four blows with mystogan, one or two blows with erza, fought natsu and gajeel, did fairy law
At this point he wasn't injured much
Then natsu defeated him.
I agree, but what are you trying to imply here? Cause I'm with you. Natsu and Gajeel only beat Laxus cause Laxus was tired after fighting Erza, Mystgun, and using Fairy Law and that spell to destroy Magnolia.
Another example
Final day of GMG, after fairy tail were involved in comparable around two conflicts for each member.
Sting, the guy natsu stomped along with rogou, was shown in a such a way, that he would beat laxus + erza + gray + gajeel + juvia
The audience looked like that sting was gonna beat them all. That what mishma showed us.
Due to this sting gave up, instead of fighting and possibly winning.
Mashima did indeed show us a Sting that MIGHT have the chance to beat 5 trashed members of FT who would fall upon being blown at. So, yeah. But what are you trying to prove, again...
Do you really want to use Hades example to show this gap between erza and laxus. do you not see how reliable that conclusion would be? what did you learn in this university you went to?
Do you need to bash me like this to make your points more valid? Is it really necessary? Lol anyway... Hades was top tier back in his arc, he was relevant, now he'd be GoI tier, nothing impressive any longer.
That couldn't even be considered a fight. It was inconclusive, there was no result. Laxus was very cocky and all, his portrayal was certainly higher than Erza's. He mentioned he was the strongest member in FT but ofc he wasn't taking Glidartz into account and he was being overzealous ok. Do you really think Erza could've been able to take on full powered Natsu and Gajeel? I think they would've mid diff her while they extreme diffed Laxus. And that's cause he was tired.
I have no facts to prove so because there are none. Can you prove otherwise?
how do you, make a tier gap between erza and laxus. without making million assumption. especially if you think natsu and erza also have the same tier gap.
please show me what makes you believe this. and I hope you wont be only using assumptions to get to your already desired result.
You'd better provide me with evidence on your opinion on the topic then I'll read it and I'll let you know if I agree with you cause you'll only bash anything I can give you and question yet again where I got my degree.
Against phantom guild, she compared s class with s class. And dragon slayer with dragon slayer
That means laxus and mystogan were included
Thus hype wrong
Ok right then Erza was wrong, end of story. She might've meant differently, as in "they're a guild to be taken into account" or she may just have been humble/cautious or she may just have taken into account the regular members and not Laxus and Mystgun who, by the way, were nowhere to be found so since they were non-factors, she may've considered them as such. Besides Mystgun was destroying otherforces from PL which leads to the conclusion PL is not only the main guild but also the members Mystgun dealt with which means there may be more to PL than we know.
If Jason didn't know anything about anything about natsu. then how did Mira know anything about jura, or Hades know anything about fairy tail members or erza knew anything about phantom guild
You're showing you don't give a damn about hype which is a fine position to take, but then make arguments that go only with feats not hype or portrayal, and don't bash those who decide to abide by it. Because yes, not all hype is to be taken into account but there's hype that is true. For example, when they met Brandish and they said it was the strongest MP they'd ever felt (implying Brandish > Mard Geer, Hades, etc.) I believe that hype to be true. Now if you don't want to believe the hype Jura = Glidartz then don't do so because I don't do either. I think there's hype we can pay attention to, and there's hype we shouldn't. What criteria to follow? I guess intuition. So far my intuition hasn't failed but, well, since you like well argumented facts so much I won't say anything else in case you downplay my arguments cause I went to a questionable university.
Hyberion was simply trashed by a spriggan when he was not alone, while Laxus defeated a spriggan, I don't think it's even sound to think that Hyberion is not leagues below Laxus.
You kinda have a point. Not because someone can beat someone, he's directly superior to a third party who's inferior to that someone. But in this case, it's like that: if Jura = 2x Erza, then Laxus = 2x Erza at least. Jura and Laxus were portrayed as being pretty much equals with Laxus having a slight edge, in terms of magic, cqc, MP, versatility, offense, defense... Laxus was slightly faster but Jura could keep up. What makes you think because Jura = 2x Erza, Laxus =/= 2x Erza?
More feats should be there which are lacking. There should be some laxus hype above erza, which is also lacking
Thus why this hype should also be false.
You need to understand a thread like "power rankings" needs to be based mainly on hype and portrayal because we've got little feats. So you either say: I THINK it'd go like this because "x" (even if it's not a fact) than to say "I prefer not to have an opinion cause we don't have feats".
When I gave you examples of so many hypes. I tried to show you, that when all we know is Mira only saw jura. Never seen him do magic and anything. She made that hype. That was my main point
Hype is usually given by third parties, there was no-one to class such an armor. We have NOTHING to class this armor as low, mid or high tier only opinion. I respect yours so let's say it's mid tier.
You want to make it sound like "if Erza's armor was high tier and not mid tier, then she might have beaten Ajeel". Well you're right, but she doesn't. My whole point is: Ajeel > Erza because Erza has nothing to beat Ajeel. It's simple to understand, I think, feats prove so.
I don't agree with ajeel being stronger. why
Well first
Ajeel is faster than non red sweat pant erza and souring armor erza.
But his reaction speed is below erza which is like very important in fights
Ajeel picked erza up with one hand
Um
Couple of points to note
1) ajeel can weaken human by just touching. he can turn things made of metal in dust in minutes like erza swords, gajeel, Wahl
2) ajeel was hiding in the sand world and then managed to grab erza neck when she couldn't see him
3) elfman ran around carrying the entire natsu team
So I obviously I can't use such silly things like him picking erza up as good comparison stick
Instead, to measure power, I look at attack powers. Since erza has more devastating attack. thus that goes to erza
Ajeel's attacks may not have a lot of DC but so what, he can literally bury you in his sand, he can dehydrate you, he can use sandworld and attack from anywhere, he can blind you with means of a giant sandstorm, he can probably prevent you from breathing properly, etc. Ajeel is so superior than Erza that it's hard for me to understand how you can say otherwise without providing proper evidence, you who boost yourself of being good at debating.
What is erza saying in the last panel
"why can't I use my requips!?"
That is Marin helping kill erza, that is the only way ajeel can hurt her, short of hiding from her sight and attacking her not exactly exactly way for a stronger person to fight
In any case, Mashima was ambiguous with scratches so let's not take this into account. As you cans ee in the following image, Erza is scratched, then she goes unscratched and in the following page, she's scratched again.
Why are you taking Marin as a factor here? Look at the previous image that I showed you. Right there is when the true fight begins. Before that, there's hardly any fight at all. This was Ajeel vs Erza+Bisca and Ajeel still ALMOST won. Erza only won cause she used a stupid light armor which Bisca happened to see, and she shot jupiter cannon which happened to be fast enough to hit him right the second before Erza was gonna get beheaded. Get how full of bullshit everything is?
If you want to talk about before Jupiter
Than yes erza kinda lost, though she is conscious and still doing magic. But what ever
In that case Erza loses to ajeel plus marin
If Erza was spriggan level, why didn't she beat Ajeel, likely the weakest spriggan after Neinheart, on her own? And don't give me the "wind armor is not her strongest" bullshit cause I'm not gonna swallow it. She had the counter element and she still would've lost if Bisca hadn't intervened.
Jacob was overwhelming both Natsu and Lucy in cqc so I think I've got my reasons to think Jacob's cqc is high tier, not an assumption but probably a fact. Unless you think Erza's cqc very superior to Natsu's then we perceive things differently.
Laxus mixes his dangerous element, lightning, with his cqc; besides he's ridiculously fast due to, again, his element. Jacob would probably keep up with his speed but he'd end up overwhelmed. Laxus is also a cqc specialist who beat Wahl, a cqc+long distance specialist so don't use the strawman falacy on me because the fact I said Jacob is a cqc specialist does not necessarily imply he's the best cqc user in the verse.
Yes it will. Top tier spriggans (August and Irene) can probably low diff the rest of the spriggans. Now tell me how it makes any sense having Erza put up a decent fight or even solo Irene.
Gildarts headbutt God Serena, I'm pretty sure if you headbutt someone you get damaged as well. And he wasn't damaged, a few marks on the face doesn't mean hes hurt. Gildarts broke all his spells then used mountain busting punch on his ugly ass. eZ.
When you collide FOREHEADS with someone, I'm pretty sure that you don't bleed from the corner of your mouth/have scratches on your face:
After they had their headbutt there must have been an off panel fight between the both of them hence why they had new injuries on their face. Oh, but what do I know? You are the almighty Woodenstool who states facts and not opinions, right?
No you are dense
erza did compete in tournament without so. She released it only against Minerva at the very end.
No, you choose to believe selective statements.
Erigor saying his power, wind magic is superior after using his most strongest spell to dispel natsu most weakest spell.
But of course you wont believe demon as they clearly state their power, curse is stronger than magic
No, you are the dense one you damn moron. Erza did train a bit before she went in while she released it when she had to fight an actual character, Erza didn't have to fight actual people until the end and even then she had to release it just to beat someone, because Kagura was still up after Erza's one attack and she needed it to beat Minvera. Statements are selective due to who is saying them and the context, the fact you can't figure this out only furthers your stupidity. What does demons have to do with anything? While that is just Jackal being pure arrogant, we've seen the originator or all curses and he has less impressive magic than multiple people. So unless you actually have something decent yo say just concede.
