Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Star Frost]

Sting > Elfman, Lisanna > Laxus

yeah, Laxus is history now.

That better be a joke

 

[Axiomus]

Sting > Elfman, Lisanna > Laxus

yeah, Laxus is history now.

Laxus >= Erza > Sting > Elfman + Lisanna

 

[Demon Hunter]

Natsu > FH Zeref > Acnologia > rest

 

[Raven]

Natsu > FH Zeref > Acnologia > rest

Yes that's the most accurate

 

[Demon Hunter]

no

That better be a joke

nope, I'm serious.

keep in mind that we have over 10 chapters left.

it will be focused solely on Team Natsu.

 

[LaGOAT]

@Axiomus but the ajeel lost wasnt as bad as it was and plus that fight i actually liked because it showed that they needed teamwork to beat the spriggans not ridiculously oneshots and inconsistently power level from the FT team. when laxus almost oneshotted ajeel. at that time i just thought maybe ajeel was a low tier spriggan (which he is) and hoping that he was the only one since he came out to be a cocky dude that thought he was on GS level.

I agree that it doesn't take much training for him to activate dragon force. In fact, I think Dragon Force can be invoked if you've simply got enough magical power. It didn't take much training for him to activate LFD either. He basically tried to use it on the spot against Max. Either way, this is not important. Regardless of whether or not Natsu trained for dragon force over the timeskip, this still doesn't change the fact that he was using it with his own power during Tartarus.

Nakagami can cut Hades magical power, sure. It wouldn't negate the fact that magical attacks wouldn't work on Franmalth. Nakagami starlight would essentially just be a normal lance attack. It's debatable if that would be enough for Erza to beat Franmalth. Also, using Nakagami armour would warrant a high diff for Erza at least. I don't think Franmalth is as strong as Hades with his heart, but he literally had Hade's magical power. Franmalth can't use devil heart or eye or anything. However, as far as his amerterasu-28 attacks goes, it would be indistinguishable from Hades' Ameterasu-28

When did Gildarts casually beat Ajeel? Or any other Spriggan for that matter? We've actually seen Natsu casually beat Neinhart. Natsu might not able to run around to August's back to tag him, but in hand to hand combat I don't see why he couldn't tag August a few times. I won't deny that Gildarts can probably take down most of the Spriggans, but would that necessarily put him on a whole different level compared to Natsu?

I can accept there's a technical difference between durability and endurance. August can negate magic, and he has a physical upgrade with his red-skinned mode. So maybe it would be harder to scratch August. However, this doesn't change the fact that Zeref can take attacks that would probably end up killing August. Zeref didn't receive no damage from DF Natsu. DF Natsu scattered his body. Zeref reversed time to put himself back together. He doesn't need to do this against base Natsu because it's only a few minor scratches.

ur not getting the point its not about him able to do by himself it about if he can do it whenever he wants at will give u an example idk if u watch one piece but we know that luffy has haki during the pre ts but he isnt able do use at will its come and goes when its necessity (or when the plot demands) emotion trigger i mean when he lost his pirate crew he was in an emotion state by yet he couldnt use haki. same thing with natsu we all know he has DF its about if he can activate at will not activate whenever the plot demands it. there was penalty of times when natsu was in danger/emotion states and he hasnt able to pull DF. i dont see the difference between the natsu that was save by gray vs when he saw gray on the ground. it isnt that didnt have the magical power. hence why i called a tempoary power up/adrenaline boost. if anything that was foreshadowing that natsu wil obtain DF at will. also im not saying that df tartaros natsu> isnt above erza but if they was to fight at that time Tartarus erza>tararus natsu. i see it as a mid diff


but franmath can absorb hades magic with or with out his heart plus all his feats are magic based. by ur logic since he can absorb magic he should be hades because he can simply abosorb his magic (playing devils advocate) i till disagree that franmath>hades without heart. erza lance is pierce through franmath would be a mid diff fight at best. natsu simply cant beathim without the help of lucy.

come on man its called powerscaling its the same thing if august and zeref neither of them fought gray but logically speaking that zeref will beat gray with less effort than august its common sense. it will take gildartz less effort to beat ajeel than it will with natsu. natsu cant use any causal feats to beat ajeel. but laxus could so power scaling wise it would be the same as gildartz. natsu will need more effort to beat an opponent than gildartz. the question isnt about if he can tag august its above does he have to try hard than gildartz does the answer is yes although i dont think he can unless he uses DF.

sigh bro we going around in circles i didnt say that zeref couldnt tank gildartz and cana tanked can he do without any damage? the answer is no no doubt in my mind that zeref>august in endurance but in durability?? the answer is no. also i know that zeref> august (i just have to believe in that because zeref hasnt shown anything impressive IMO but story and plot says so) ok but the question u saying fh zeref=zeref in durability right? do u think DF natsu vaporized base zeref and receive little to no damage?

Durability means the ability to withstand wear, pressure, or damage.

Zeref is durable enough to survive Igneel Powered FDKM Natsu's attack.That's better than anything August has shown without his hax resistance against Caster Magic.

And how can you be sure August was not damaged by those attacks?His colour complexion makes it difficult to understand the damages his body receives.That is also the reason we don't see August has any body damage even when his body was literally being shattered to pieces by Ars Magia.

no durability is tanking an attack with little to no damage

endurance is how much damage it takes to take u down in others words how long u last without being KO

zeref endure BDKM natsu zeref>august in endurance august>zeref in durablity

doesnt matter about his skin complexion it will show if he was damage or not. hiro will clearly show it but he wasnt and we have panels to support that claims

--- Double Post Merged, May 15, 2017, Original Post Date: May 15, 2017 ---

I was under the impression that Laxus would be one or two-shotting Spriggans with the way he dropped nukes on Ajeel. The fact that Wall gave Laxus as much trouble as he did was a surprise to me.

that only because he was nerfed plus fighting some immune to his magic

 

[Axiomus]

@Axiomus but the ajeel lost wasnt as bad as it was and plus that fight i actually liked because it showed that they needed teamwork to beat the spriggans not ridiculously oneshots and inconsistently power level from the FT team. when laxus almost oneshotted ajeel. at that time i just thought maybe ajeel was a low tier spriggan (which he is) and hoping that he was the only one since he came out to be a cocky dude that thought he was on GS level.

Are we talking about Natsu being able to take out Spriggans in 1 or 2 hits? I considered FDK demolition fist to on the same level as Nakagami Starlight, if not slightly stronger. That's why I considered Natsu to be able to take out a Spriggan with 1-2 FDK spells, assuming they were all around Ajeel's level. Originally, I held the opinion that God Serena was going to be stronger than the rest of the Spriggans, but that claim hasn't really lived up to the evidence.

ur not getting the point its not about him able to do by himself it about if he can do it whenever he wants at will give u an example idk if u watch one piece but we know that luffy has haki during the pre ts but he isnt able do use at will its come and goes when its necessity (or when the plot demands) emotion trigger i mean when he lost his pirate crew he was in an emotion state by yet he couldnt use haki. same thing with natsu we all know he has DF its about if he can activate at will not activate whenever the plot demands it. there was penalty of times when natsu was in danger/emotion states and he hasnt able to pull DF. i dont see the difference between the natsu that was save by gray vs when he saw gray on the ground. it isnt that didnt have the magical power. hence why i called a tempoary power up/adrenaline boost. if anything that was foreshadowing that natsu wil obtain DF at will. also im not saying that df tartaros natsu> isnt above erza but if they was to fight at that time Tartarus erza>tararus natsu. i seeit as a mid diff


but franmath can absorb hades magic with or with out his heart plus all his feats are magic based. by ur logic since he can absorb magic he should be hades because he can simply abosorb his magic (playing devils advocate) i till disagree that franmath>hades without heart. erza lance is pierce through franmath would be a mid diff fight as best. natsu simply cant beat without the help on lucy.

come on man its called powerscaling its the same thing if august and zeref neither of them fought gray but logically speaking that zeref will beat gray with less effort than august its common sense. it will take gildartz less effort to beat ajeel than it will with natsu. natsu cant use any causal feats to beat ajeel. but laxus could so powerscaling wise it would be the same as gildartz. natsu will need more effort to beat an opponent than gildartz. the question isnt about if he can tag august its above does he have to try hard than gildartz does the answer is yes although i dont think he can unless he uses DF.

sigh bro we going around in circles i didnt say that zeref couldnt tank gildartz and cana tanked can he do without any damage? the answer is no no doubt in my mind that zeref>august in endurance but in durability?? the answer is no. also i know that zeref> august (i just have to believe in that because zeref hasnt shown anything impressive IMO but story and plot says so) ok but the question u saying fh zeref=zeref in durability right? do u think DF natsu vaporized base zeref and receive little to no damage?

Natsu has ability to use dragon force with his own power. Even if you say he needs to be in the right state of mind, if Natsu is pushed to his limits he would eventually reach the point where he would get emotional enough to invoke Dragon Force. Otherwise, he would likely just get back up and keep fighting. Either way, the fact that dragon force is done using his own power meant that he had a tonne of power left over after fighting Jackal, Franmalth, and Tempesta. He didn't go all out against them.

Franmalth absorbed Hades' body. He had Hades soul inside him the same way he had Lucy's spirits, which gave him Hades' magical power. It's not a matter of copy Hades' power. He literally had it. If Franmalth used Hades' power to attack, he would be using magic power. Nakagami can affect that. Nakagami cannot affect Franmalth himself though, as Franmalth can absorb magic. It would just be a normal lance against him. Worse, it's actually a magic item, meaning it stands a fair chance of being absorbed by Franmalth if he grabs a hold of it.

You're trying to prove Gildarts is stronger than Natsu by saying that if he had feats, it would be better than Natsu's. What actual feats does Gildarts have that would put him in on a different level than Natsu? He beat historia of God Serena with Empyrean, which is a named move. The AoE of Gildarts attacks are comparable to the AoE of Natsu's attacks. Natsu beat Jacob without very much effort, and managed to beat Neinhart fairly casually. I can accept if you think Gildarts is slightly stronger than Natsu w/o Dragon Force, but it wouldn't constitute an entire tier.

To answer your question, I don't believe Fairy Heart dramatically increased Zeref's durability. That said, I consider Zeref's durability fairly high even without it, given that he can tank Igneel-powered Natsu's attacks. Without Fairy Heart, Zeref would be substantially damaged by DF Natsu's attack. Whether or not it would kill him is debatable, as we know decapitation will not kill Zeref. He might just regenerate over time, but it will leave him out of commision. I believe if Gildart's arm can deliver an attack on the same level as DF demolition Fist, he would also substantially damage August.

 

[**Silver**]

people usually expect something good from Ishgar strongest mage but what we get nothing really,
God Serena was another disappointment and even that is not enough God Serena turned out to be the weakest villain in this arc...¨

personally i was expecting ISGHAR STRONGEST MAGE to be atleast strong enough to even freaking attack Acnologia.... but no Mashima decided its good thing to one shot ishgar strongest mage and troll Acnologia even harder...
Mashima made his point clear you dont fucking one-shot hyped-up villains whats the point???

but hey maybe i was the only one with high expectations right ???

 

[Arjuna]

But when he was fighting Natsu before getting Fairy Heart, there was no way for him to heal himself.

Also, dragons (Acnologia included) are immune to conventional magics, so unless August knows DS magic, which he could probably copy from Acnologia himself, he'd have no effect against Acnologia, no matter who has more powerful magic. And since August was faster than Jellal and Jellal is shown to be faster than Acnologia, we can only assume that August has the ability to beat Acnologia for speed.

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2017, Original Post Date: May 14, 2017 ---

But those various types of magic make him the most versatile in the series. Especially when the mage he copies isn't as proficient in their own style as he instantly is. He was able to use Crime Sorciere's magic against them better than they themselves could. Couple that with his staggering magical power and no one short of maybe Acnologia could beat him, and that's by hax alone.

Well Zeref did heal himself in chapter 466 after fighting Natsu.All his wounds disappeared.


Secondly,i have already shown with you panels how human Acnologia speed blitzed August.August couldn't even react to his speed.


And last but not the least both Irene and August admitted only Zeref can defeat Acnologia.They don't have a chance otherwise.

--- Double Post Merged, May 15, 2017 ---

@Axiomus but the ajeel lost wasnt as bad as it was and plus that fight i actually liked because it showed that they needed teamwork to beat the spriggans not ridiculously oneshots and inconsistently power level from the FT team. when laxus almost oneshotted ajeel. at that time i just thought maybe ajeel was a low tier spriggan (which he is) and hoping that he was the only one since he came out to be a cocky dude that thought he was on GS level.


ur not getting the point its not about him able to do by himself it about if he can do it whenever he wants at will give u an example idk if u watch one piece but we know that luffy has haki during the pre ts but he isnt able do use at will its come and goes when its necessity (or when the plot demands) emotion trigger i mean when he lost his pirate crew he was in an emotion state by yet he couldnt use haki. same thing with natsu we all know he has DF its about if he can activate at will not activate whenever the plot demands it. there was penalty of times when natsu was in danger/emotion states and he hasnt able to pull DF. i dont see the difference between the natsu that was save by gray vs when he saw gray on the ground. it isnt that didnt have the magical power. hence why i called a tempoary power up/adrenaline boost. if anything that was foreshadowing that natsu wil obtain DF at will. also im not saying that df tartaros natsu> isnt above erza but if they was to fight at that time Tartarus erza>tararus natsu. i see it as a mid diff


but franmath can absorb hades magic with or with out his heart plus all his feats are magic based. by ur logic since he can absorb magic he should be hades because he can simply abosorb his magic (playing devils advocate) i till disagree that franmath>hades without heart. erza lance is pierce through franmath would be a mid diff fight at best. natsu simply cant beathim without the help of lucy.

come on man its called powerscaling its the same thing if august and zeref neither of them fought gray but logically speaking that zeref will beat gray with less effort than august its common sense. it will take gildartz less effort to beat ajeel than it will with natsu. natsu cant use any causal feats to beat ajeel. but laxus could so power scaling wise it would be the same as gildartz. natsu will need more effort to beat an opponent than gildartz. the question isnt about if he can tag august its above does he have to try hard than gildartz does the answer is yes although i dont think he can unless he uses DF.

sigh bro we going around in circles i didnt say that zeref couldnt tank gildartz and cana tanked can he do without any damage? the answer is no no doubt in my mind that zeref>august in endurance but in durability?? the answer is no. also i know that zeref> august (i just have to believe in that because zeref hasnt shown anything impressive IMO but story and plot says so) ok but the question u saying fh zeref=zeref in durability right? do u think DF natsu vaporized base zeref and receive little to no damage?



no durability is tanking an attack with little to no damage

endurance is how much damage it takes to take u down in others words how long u last without being KO

zeref endure BDKM natsu zeref>august in endurance august>zeref in durablity

doesnt matter about his skin complexion it will show if he was damage or not. hiro will clearly show it but he wasnt and we have panels to support that claims

--- Double Post Merged, May 15, 2017, Original Post Date: May 15, 2017 ---

that only because he was nerfed plus fighting some immune to his magic

That doesn't mean durability.Durability doesn't mean you can tank always.You can take damages and still survive.And i didn't create the definition of durability.i copied it from a dictionary.If you want i can give you link of that definition.

And we saw how August got injured by a sword shaped knife and and felt pain from Cana's cards.On the other hand if we notice closely even when his body was being destroyed it had no visible damage.

 

[sharkai]

So basically you're saying Azuma>Gildarts+Makarov and Tenrou? And you ask me why i said your credibility is low

so you want me to ignore manga so i can have spotless reputation like you. like literally ignore azuma description of the nuke and fuking image of gildart standing right there?

Choosing an option given by the sharkai? Haha dont be silly, best to ignore or refuse such obviously bias choices.

no, instead you can just pull things out of nowhere like lb laxus speed > erza and meteor august speed > erza

No, Minerva/Kagura arent immune to each others attacks.

except they were only hit by kicks and punches, just like wahl

Why would Levy be able to block a nuke? She doesnt have that kind of strength. Dont know what youre getting at here.

why doesnt gmg levy have the power.

First time Laxus saw Red Lightning? What? Says who?

yeah just like natsu saw dragon secret art the first time in ff arc durig the fight. otherwise natsu would have one shot laxus. just like you think would have happened to wahl

nakama made red lightening, laxus had no way of knowing wahl cant analyze red lightening.

Azuma or Zancrow? Might be as easy to destroy as a Black Hole, assuming he uses the same spell on them. They might be able to tank lesser attacks.

so u think gildart who over powered a boss tier move need that much power to destroy a top tier and a mid tier. but your logic suddenly changes when erza come into equation.
erza over powered a boss tier move just like gildart did back then
but you think she cant even one shot a mid tier like ajeel and wahl.
your bias is showing, as usual.

Nah, Azir wouldnt have even survived long enough for Marin to do anything, Laxus can oneshot him, remember?

what. but laxus has not one shot anyone

Besides, Erza didnt have no magic, she had Blackwing on, she just wasnt able to escape without the innate advantage wind gives her.
Did i? I mightve since August's blitz was soo much more impressive. If i did say that Erza's blitz wasnt a blitz, then its likely because her attack on Azir was used to show how helpless she was against him, while August's blitz on Gildarts was used to show how helpless Gildarts was. Portrayal is a big thing for me, as you know. But yeah, blitzing Cana and Gildarts at the same time>>>blitzing Azir any day
Who says i dont think Erza can oneshot a spriggan? I think she can oneshot a couple, just not Azir, cause she didnt.

basically this is it, isnt it.
you see laxus struggling fiercely against erigor. you will find it impressive and laxus becomes god
and then you see erza one shotting aconologia, you wont find erza impressive because you can never find erza impressive. and then you will come up with bull.

first you cant read portrayal. so stop trying. otherwise you wont say stupid things like dragons are slow, or erza has less durability than serena (even though both have been clearly stated differently in the manga)

that blitz, much more impressive than august blitz, showed that most of erza magic was useless against ajeel. just like laxus vs wahl example. (after this you will see most of ajeel magic being useless against erza)
two erza wasnt even in a fast armour like red pant or souring.
third august had to use magic to try to blitz.
forth both cana and gildart were standing the same location. august only move from one to another just like erza and swing just like erza. cana, gildart and ajeel, all put a up a block. cana is the slowest here by huge margin.

you can visuallize it in another way.
remove gildart from that event. meteor august will try to blitz cana the same way. and the result will be same. gildart being there required no additional move on augst part.
but what i am i saying this to you. your hate for erza is so severe, you will always down play her no matter what sh!t you have to pull up.
in no feasible way you can say meteor august is faster than erza without completely ignoring feats. but again that is normal for you along with cherry picking hype

--- Double Post Merged, May 15, 2017, Original Post Date: May 15, 2017 ---

no because anco or irene werent serious. like ajeel and erza were again debunked if acno was serious he no diff irene. probably blitzes irene same way he did GS.

my point is the end isnt a powerful as u claim it too be if some1 like erza can stop a punch GS would real tanked that attack unlike dimaria who get hurts from DF wendy attacks.

ya ur logic is now backfiring now because i use that logic to debunk ur claim. lol irrelevent its debatable who stronger between wahl and dmaria since TS didnt work on him. how is he partial END that much higher GS?? im sorry GS is a high tier spriggan at gildartz lvl. laxus almost onehsoted ajeel that doesnt mean he can oneshot GS. it doesnt work that way GS is way above dimaria. END isnt oeshotting GS. GS got oneshoted by the acno.
END couldnt take out gray nor erza again debunked once agiain ur hype end. so can gray oneshot dimaria too because he was going toe to toe with END

cool erza overpowered the second strongest sprrigan attack. since this is feats>no feats erza>zeref and acno since they have shownt any capability to bust a meteor

no after the marin situation was over erza was till getting shitted on. while after the mbp situation was over with laxus he proceeds to oneshot wahl. see both we're nerfed but one oneshot a spriggan the other need help from bisca.

lol i guess lucy>GOI because she held her own vs brandish
no erza feats were impressive but u are going by feats>no feats (i mean law from one piece can bust a meteor and he isnt a top tier in his verse)

speculation we only saw natsu heat himself up not lucy and juvia. and it took a while by ur logic he can freeze human irene and then onehot her since it took awhile. laxus doesnt have to be a fire mage to get out of that instafreeze

what are u talking about? ajeel isnt immune to erza magic ur make stuff up again. he was dodging her attacks and when he was distracted erza was able to hit him http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/457/20 i dont think u know what immunity is. when the marin situation was over she till got shitted on. of course she didnt struggle because ajeel was already hit by Jupiter hence why she able to take him out


except irene was trying harder than august who was being casual the whole time august strongest shown feats was meteor which would easily blitzes erza.

ya zeref is stronger than irene but ur logic is feats>no feats so why do u think zeref is stronger since he hasnt shown any meteor busting feat nor hasnt shown anything that he can beat a low tier dragon since dragons>humans (according to ur logic)

except erza never blitzes ajeel that all made up 2. august actually bilitzs cana and almost kill her if gildartz didnt take that attack.

huh? gildartz using crush magic is power feat so what are talking? feats are feats doesnt matter if its power speed durability or endurance they all fall under the categories of feats.

levy didnt abosrb like laxus did. pretty much her levy was like freed bickslow and evergreen they were around it which still affected them laxus actually ate it big difference there

ok ok
your logic time
both erza and ajeel were serious. erza couldnt counter ajeel. thus erza is weaker than ajeel
both irene and aconologia were not serious. non serious aconologia cant counter non serious irene. thus by your logic irene is still > aconologia

why wouldnt serena tank that hit. people stronger than him were hurt by it.
against serena just cant be that stronger than dimeria to make dimeria completly scared of him like she was of partial END

what! seriously what are you talking about. we know TS work on kagura.
you gave me a link showing wahl moving, two or so pages later we also see kagura moving.
so how is wahl or laxus immune to TS when kagura is not. your panels if i were to take happen at the same time as TS, which is not necessary, we would come up with Laxus, wahl , kagura are all immune to TS. which we already know is not true.
thus you have no evidence of wahl or laxus being immune to Time Stop.

if you call this logic, then i feel sorry for you mate.

zeref, aconologia are portrayed to be stronger than erza by a lot. sadly laxus has never been portrayed to be stronger than erza ever. i mean like ever. now we have evidence that he is a little below her infact.

no after marin even ajeel started to lose ground. then he used the spell erza magic has no way of dealing without resorting to the eye that surpasses even eye.
just like aconologi could do nothing to U1
erza could do nothing to sand world

except wahl stood their laughing his head off, instead of doing something unlike ajeel. dont forget to include that.

pof erza > pof laxus > erza

yes, erza feats are impressive. are they up there to portrayal of acno or zeref, no.
what about laxus, yes erza feats are above his feats and portrayal.
i know this might be hard for you to understand, but laxus is not equal to or stronger than aconologia

heat travels, so natsu was the one who melt there ice. human irene is far above likes of invel, he cant do much there. laxus is around invel level, he will atleast be frozen for longer than natsu was. long enough for invel to take him out

if irene was trying harder than august then erza > gildarts
that meteor august you speak of, could barely blitz cana. even she reacted and put a block up. at worst i see erza laughing at meteor august speed.

that why i say i have no way to defend zeref > irene
you should say that too when you pull things out of nowhere like laxus > erza
atleast i have portrayal behind, you basically have nothing. just down playing erza that is all.

erza blitz ajeel the exact same way as august blitz cana. after cana fell, not as impressive as ajeel (even though he was immune to metal) being blown into the ship.


yes gildart using crash magic is equivilant of erza using a sword.
power feat would be what powers did he over come.
for example pof erza slash is so powerful that she can over power august or irene top tier move.
now show me gildart overpowering at this level.

speed wise erza is above meteor august at the moment
she did the same to ajeel; what august did to cana

endurance wise amd stimina, erza laugh at gildart and laxus

actually laxus ate it to stop other from exposure. levy got full exposure. stomach handle poison better than veins.

 

[LaGOAT]

ok ok
your logic time
both erza and ajeel were serious. erza couldnt counter ajeel. thus erza is weaker than ajeel
both irene and aconologia were not serious. non serious aconologia cant counter non serious irene. thus by your logic irene is still > aconologia

why wouldnt serena tank that hit. people stronger than him were hurt by it.
against serena just cant be that stronger than dimeria to make dimeria completly scared of him like she was of partial END

what! seriously what are you talking about. we know TS work on kagura.
you gave me a link showing wahl moving, two or so pages later we also see kagura moving.
so how is wahl or laxus immune to TS when kagura is not. your panels if i were to take happen at the same time as TS, which is not necessary, we would come up with Laxus, wahl , kagura are all immune to TS. which we already know is not true.
thus you have no evidence of wahl or laxus being immune to Time Stop.

if you call this logic, then i feel sorry for you mate.

zeref, aconologia are portrayed to be stronger than erza by a lot. sadly laxus has never been portrayed to be stronger than erza ever. i mean like ever. now we have evidence that he is a little below her infact.

no after marin even ajeel started to lose ground. then he used the spell erza magic has no way of dealing without resorting to the eye that surpasses even eye.
just like aconologi could do nothing to U1
erza could do nothing to sand world

except wahl stood their laughing his head off, instead of doing something unlike ajeel. dont forget to include that.

pof erza > pof laxus > erza

yes, erza feats are impressive. are they up there to portrayal of acno or zeref, no.
what about laxus, yes erza feats are above his feats and portrayal.
i know this might be hard for you to understand, but laxus is not equal to or stronger than aconologia

heat travels, so natsu was the one who melt there ice. human irene is far above likes of invel, he cant do much there. laxus is around invel level, he will atleast be frozen for longer than natsu was. long enough for invel to take him out

if irene was trying harder than august then erza > gildarts
that meteor august you speak of, could barely blitz cana. even she reacted and put a block up. at worst i see erza laughing at meteor august speed.

that why i say i have no way to defend zeref > irene
you should say that too when you pull things out of nowhere like laxus > erza
atleast i have portrayal behind, you basically have nothing. just down playing erza that is all.

erza blitz ajeel the exact same way as august blitz cana. after cana fell, not as impressive as ajeel (even though he was immune to metal) being blown into the ship.


yes gildart using crash magic is equivilant of erza using a sword.
power feat would be what powers did he over come.
for example pof erza slash is so powerful that she can over power august or irene top tier move.
now show me gildart overpowering at this level.

speed wise erza is above meteor august at the moment
she did the same to ajeel; what august did to cana

endurance wise amd stimina, erza laugh at gildart and laxus

actually laxus ate it to stop other from exposure. levy got full exposure. stomach handle poison better than veins.

hahaha im loving this except that irene knew she couldnt beat acno and even admitted it but lets ignored that. 2. U1 didnt do shit to him he come back and proceeds to oneshot her 3.wendy>irene because she can counter her enchantment plus has DS advantages according to my logic right?

lol serena is tanking wendy kick with no damage i dont why this is debatable. so i guess gray is own tier above dimaria then same with erza right

2 its even debatable if TS will work TO cheila (if ultear wasnt there) unless u think TO cheila is stronger than wahl and laxus. 3. i already said it might have limited range also gray was able to go toe to toe with End who is stronger than dimaria so i guess gray>>>dimaria.

so i guess zeref is stupid because he take hits from base natsu knowing that doesnt hurt him too?

might as well say POF erza>zeref and acno while u add it since they both havent shown erza like feats

except that irene had to try harder because on wendy if she wasnt there she gets no diff. when cana was there august didnt have try much harder 2. be4 wendy interferes erza couldnt do any thing in fact couldnt get a hit on irene while gildartz could be4 he got outclassed. lol it barely blitzes cana funny but it blitzes gildartz AND cana was gonna get oneshot if gildartz didnt interfered. show me a panel when erza blitzes ajeel u havent provided that yet.

u r really reaching aint u? laxus wasnt never portray above erza??? hahahaha the denial is really strong here. lol laxus was never on ancologia by portrayal but i love how u use one category to prove who stronger but when its used against u its a problem.

lol yes heat does travel but deosnt prove that his fire spread out to melt lucy when we have a panel clearly trying to burn his ice http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/497/17. 2. natsu>invel but it took time for him to melt and that was longer enough to beat natsu. same logic with human irene. also he isnt a fire mage either so by ur logic he can instafreeze her.

ya because ur only going by feats tho when portrayal and hype puts him above her. plus she said it herself. and i do have protrayal zeref excepted laxus or jellal to come to guild first because he knew that they were the top tiers in the ishgar and was disappointed that it was gray.

crushing is an OP magic he will easily scatter erza.
erza busted a meteor means gildartz can can use crashing magic to do the same also we can debate if Dragon claw swipe>meteor eeza wasnt able to stop that but she was able to stop a meteor. if u want go by that logic the feats wise u have to agree that erza is the strongest in the verse because zeref hasnt to bust a top tier irene attack and anco hasnt shown that he has erza type of endurance

i agree with u endurance erza>gildartz and laxus
speed?? no ur funny when did erza blitzes ajeel? show me a panel.
power feats gildartz easily outclass erza. common sense portrayal and powersacling. same logic applies with everything else plus if u read the crucnhyroll translation its confirm that gildartz is the strongest in the guild aka hype and portrayal

but they till got affected before laxus ate it and plus it literally everywhere whereas it was an AOE from bradman. also eats it is worse THAN being expose to i. its like smoking vs second hand smoking

 

[Seven777]

so you want me to ignore manga so i can have spotless reputation like you. like literally ignore azuma description of the nuke and fuking image of gildart standing right there?no, instead you can just pull things out of nowhere like lb laxus speed > erza and meteor august speed > erza except they were only hit by kicks and punches, just like wahl why doesnt gmg levy have the power.yeah just like natsu saw dragon secret art the first time in ff arc durig the fight. otherwise natsu would have one shot laxus. just like you think would have happened to wahl

nakama made red lightening, laxus had no way of knowing wahl cant analyze red lightening.

so u think gildart who over powered a boss tier move need that much power to destroy a top tier and a mid tier. but your logic suddenly changes when erza come into equation.
erza over powered a boss tier move just like gildart did back then
but you think she cant even one shot a mid tier like ajeel and wahl.
your bias is showing, as usual. what. but laxus has not one shot anyone
basically this is it, isnt it.
you see laxus struggling fiercely against erigor. you will find it impressive and laxus becomes god
and then you see erza one shotting aconologia, you wont find erza impressive because you can never find erza impressive. and then you will come up with bull.

first you cant read portrayal. so stop trying. otherwise you wont say stupid things like dragons are slow, or erza has less durability than serena (even though both have been clearly stated differently in the manga)

that blitz, much more impressive than august blitz, showed that most of erza magic was useless against ajeel. just like laxus vs wahl example. (after this you will see most of ajeel magic being useless against erza)
two erza wasnt even in a fast armour like red pant or souring.
third august had to use magic to try to blitz.
forth both cana and gildart were standing the same location. august only move from one to another just like erza and swing just like erza. cana, gildart and ajeel, all put a up a block. cana is the slowest here by huge margin.

you can visuallize it in another way.
remove gildart from that event. meteor august will try to blitz cana the same way. and the result will be same. gildart being there required no additional move on augst part.
but what i am i saying this to you. your hate for erza is so severe, you will always down play her no matter what sh!t you have to pull up.
in no feasible way you can say meteor august is faster than erza without completely ignoring feats. but again that is normal for you along with cherry picking hype

Do what you want, but Azuma<Gildarts in my opinon and everyone elses, I know you dont like to go with the masses, but literally everyone knows this
Minerva used magic, not kicks and blasted Kagura right in the face, then nuked her on top of that, Kagura also got kicked around by Erza too.
Minerva got kicked and slashed up by Erza, and ate a sheathed Archenemy attack from Kagura as well.
Who says Natsu just came up with his Dragon Slayer Secret art against Laxus either? Both spells were prob made before they were used.
Cana was far behind Gilarts, August Meteored through him and then got Cana. So again, blitzing one person<blitzing two people.
Plus Gildarts alone is probably faster than Erza since Gildarts was able to blitz base August while Erza couldnt blitz Eileen.

I can read portrayal just fine, if the vast majority of readers view an aspect of a manga the same way, then it becomes pretty clear that that view is what the manga is trying to portray. Could the masses be wrong? Sure, but not likely, not if the writer is doing his job.
There is a reason everyone thinks Laxus is top tier, he has the feats, he has the hype, and he has the author describing him as overpowered to the point where its hard to write battles, what more do you want? People think he is powerful cause thats how he's portrayed.

Uhuh, so basically you like to accuse everyone who doesnt think Erza is god tier(most people) of being bias. Anyone who doesnt see her as you do is clearly just wanking someone else right? Its laughable how you go around telling everyone else what their opinions should be and how those opinions should be formed. Telling people they cant believe in Laxus oneshotting Ajeel hype, while not believing another. Boasting about how you "always use the same standards"(despite some clear deviation when convenient) and calling other people bias for not following those same standards.
I mean im not opposed to making an offhanded comment about someone wanking one character or another every now and then, but you really gotta get off your high horse dude, get that chip off your shoulder, almost every comment you make is about how unfairly you think some characters are treated(mainly Erza/Laxus) and how the fandom are all just a bunch of hypocrites/wankers/liars.

Haha, I dont hate Erza dude, most of the time im hyping her(when im not talking to you), I just dont go crazy about it.
For instance i dont go around saying:
- Aria>Gajeel
- S Class Monster=Jura
- Kyoka>Mard Geer
- Azuma>Gildarts+Makarov+Natsu+Gray+everyone else on Tenrou

I mean you have your opinions and thats all good, but seriously? Like i said before, you cant honestly expect people to think youre credible after making claims like these. Going against the masses has its limits man.
But i guess you're not likely to change your mind(not that i really mind) so we've once again reached a dead end in yet another Erza vs Laxus debate, this post has gotten pretty long so feel free to ignore large sections of it if you decide to reply

 

[LaGOAT]

Are we talking about Natsu being able to take out Spriggans in 1 or 2 hits? I considered FDK demolition fist to on the same level as Nakagami Starlight, if not slightly stronger. That's why I considered Natsu to be able to take out a Spriggan with 1-2 FDK spells, assuming they were all around Ajeel's level. Originally, I held the opinion that God Serena was going to be stronger than the rest of the Spriggans, but that claim hasn't really lived up to the evidence.

that is irrelevant bro come on man thats like saying u expected chapter 1 natsu to beat the final villain by the EoS OF COURSE u expect that.. but us readers (well most of us) like for the MC to actually put in work to beat an opponents and for the villains to live up to their hype. i dont have a problem natsu beating a spriggan but to be that much stronger than them and able to oneshot another even after getting stronger from enchanted in his base form was ridiculous. not only natsu. erza gray even my boy laxus (almost causally ajeel) when he was supposedly to a powerful opponents. honestly i was expecting teamwork. and a few 1v1 opponent (people who are stronger enough to do that) when natsu and lucy beat jacob it wasnt that bad of a fight. yes natsu oneshot him in FDKM. but it took him to go into that mode to beat not beatn in his base form like he did vs ENCHANTED NIENHART.

Natsu has ability to use dragon force with his own power. Even if you say he needs to be in the right state of mind, if Natsu is pushed to his limits he would eventually reach the point where he would get emotional enough to invoke Dragon Force. Otherwise, he would likely just get back up and keep fighting. Either way, the fact that dragon force is done using his own power meant that he had a tonne of power left over after fighting Jackal, Franmalth, and Tempesta. He didn't go all out against them.

Franmalth absorbed Hades' body. He had Hades soul inside him the same way he had Lucy's spirits, which gave him Hades' magical power. It's not a matter of copy Hades' power. He literally had it. If Franmalth used Hades' power to attack, he would be using magic power. Nakagami can affect that. Nakagami cannot affect Franmalth himself though, as Franmalth can absorb magic. It would just be a normal lance against him. Worse, it's actually a magic item, meaning it stands a fair chance of being absorbed by Franmalth if he grabs a hold of it.

You're trying to prove Gildarts is stronger than Natsu by saying that if he had feats, it would be better than Natsu's. What actual feats does Gildarts have that would put him in on a different level than Natsu? He beat historia of God Serena with Empyrean, which is a named move. The AoE of Gildarts attacks are comparable to the AoE of Natsu's attacks. Natsu beat Jacob without very much effort, and managed to beat Neinhart fairly casually. I can accept if you think Gildarts is slightly stronger than Natsu w/o Dragon Force, but it wouldn't constitute an entire tier.

To answer your question, I don't believe Fairy Heart dramatically increased Zeref's durability. That said, I consider Zeref's durability fairly high even without it, given that he can tank Igneel-powered Natsu's attacks. Without Fairy Heart, Zeref would be substantially damaged by DF Natsu's attack. Whether or not it would kill him is debatable, as we know decapitation will not kill Zeref. He might just regenerate over time, but it will leave him out of commision. I believe if Gildart's arm can deliver an attack on the same level as DF demolition Fist, he would also substantially damage August.

thats my point natsu has been push to his limits in the series and DF didnt tap in. i can say that gajeel can tap into DF if he was emotion trigger but hasnt because he hasnt been push to his limit/hasnt going all out. yes we saw that he didnt go out against jackal but he oneshot him in base form with LFD spell that i agree but he was definitely going all out against franmath and tempester come on man r u gonna tell me that natsu hasnt been going all out in this whole entire series because he didnt tap in DF??


no ur not getting my point imsaying since that franmath has the ability to absorb magic. logically speaking he should be absorb hades magic with or without heart. so r gonna say that franmath>hades because he feats are magic based? anyways back debate. having hades powers=/= same level of power from hades himself. he may have his powers but his MP of attack =/= to hades. nakagmai nagates the attacks and proceeds to blitzes him be4 he realizes it.

except he needed FDKM to beat jacob which is a mid diff fight gildartz use a casual crashing magic to cube jacob which is a low diff/no diff for gildartz. FDKM demolition fist>unname crash magic. its the same logic when lucy was fighting an unserious brandish. if that was natsu natsu will probably oneshot a unserious brandish. just because i think gildartz is a tier above natsu doesnt mean the gap is very huge that ur think it is. natsu with DF is a tier above gildartz not base and FKDM is a tier below gildartz he mid diff natsu.

but the thing is that ur saying that FH zeref makes him regenerate faster than base zeref which means that his zeref ''durablity has increased because of that. if his durablity is the same then it wouldnt be faster to regenerate then it does with base zeref which is why zeref said that DF wouldnt beat enough to kil him plus it making sound like ur saying DF natsu>BKDM natsu do u believe that? also IMO if u get a power up ur durability should incrase to but hiro sucks at PL. and nah DF demolist fist>any of gildartz attacks

That doesn't mean durability.Durability doesn't mean you can tank always.You can take damages and still survive.And i didn't create the definition of durability.i copied it from a dictionary.If you want i can give you link of that definition.

And we saw how August got injured by a sword shaped knife and and felt pain from Cana's cards.On the other hand if we notice closely even when his body was being destroyed it had no visible damage.

i misread ur post EXACTLY the definition just prove my point able to withstand damage while this is the definition of endurance basically what i trying to say http://www.dictionary.com/browse/endurance
durablity http://www.thefreedictionary.com/durability
durability=/=endurance

ya august was offguard he wasnt expecting that to happen to him. unless ur gonna say cana chop on brandish is stronger than lucy actual feats vs brandish??
ars magia wasnt suppose to give him damage it was a spell that was suppose to take his life that doesnt have to with durability or endurance

 

[Arjuna]

that is irrelevant bro come on man thats like saying u expected chapter 1 natsu to beat the final villain by the EoS OF COURSE u expect that.. but us readers (well most of us) like for the MC to actually put in work to beat an opponents and for the villains to live up to their hype. i dont have a problem natsu beating a spriggan but to be that much stronger than them and able to oneshot another even after getting stronger from enchanted in his base form was ridiculous. not only natsu. erza gray even my boy laxus (almost causally ajeel) when he was supposedly to a powerful opponents. honestly i was expecting teamwork. and a few 1v1 opponent (people who are stronger enough to do that) when natsu and lucy beat jacob it wasnt that bad of a fight. yes natsu oneshot him in FDKM. but it took him to go into that mode to beat not beatn in his base form like he did vs ENCHANTED NIENHART.



thats my point natsu has been push to his limits in the series and DF didnt tap in. i can say that gajeel can tap into DF if he was emotion trigger but hasnt because he hasnt been push to his limit/hasnt going all out. yes we saw that he didnt go out against jackal but he oneshot him in base form with LFD spell that i agree but he was definitely going all out against franmath and tempester come on man r u gonna tell me that natsu hasnt been going all out in this whole entire series because he didnt tap in DF??


no ur not getting my point imsaying since that franmath has the ability to absorb magic. logically speaking he should be absorb hades magic with or without heart. so r gonna say that franmath>hades because he feats are magic based? anyways back debate. having hades powers=/= same level of power from hades himself. he may have his powers but his MP of attack =/= to hades. nakagmai nagates the attacks and proceeds to blitzes him be4 he realizes it.

except he needed FDKM to beat jacob which is a mid diff fight gildartz use a casual crashing magic to cube jacob which is a low diff/no diff for gildartz. FDKM demolition fist>unname crash magic. its the same logic when lucy was fighting an unserious brandish. if that was natsu natsu will probably oneshot a unserious brandish. just because i think gildartz is a tier above natsu doesnt mean the gap is very huge that ur think it is. natsu with DF is a tier above gildartz not base and FKDM is a tier below gildartz he mid diff natsu.

but the thing is that ur saying that FH zeref makes him regenerate faster than base zeref which means that his zeref ''durablity has increased because of that. if his durablity is the same then it wouldnt be faster to regenerate then it does with base zeref which is why zeref said that DF wouldnt beat enough to kil him plus it making sound like ur saying DF natsu>BKDM natsu do u believe that? also IMO if u get a power up ur durability should incrase to but hiro sucks at PL. and nah DF demolist fist>any of gildartz attacks



i misread ur post EXACTLY the definition just prove my point able to withstand damage while this is the definition of endurance basically what i trying to say http://www.dictionary.com/browse/endurance
durablity http://www.thefreedictionary.com/durability
durability=/=endurance

ya august was offguard he wasnt expecting that to happen to him. unless ur gonna say cana chop on brandish is stronger than lucy actual feats vs brandish??
ars magia wasnt suppose to give him damage it was a spell that was suppose to take his life that doesnt have to with durability or endurance

Did you notice the third definition of durability?

It says "Able to perform or compete over a long period, as by avoiding or overcoming injuries".Zeref did perfectly that by overcoming his injuries with his immortality.



August was literally being destroyed .


Still you don't see any damage on his body.His colour complexion makes it difficult to understand.And to most spells he was immune because Caster Magic don't work on him.

 

[Axiomus]

that is irrelevant bro come on man thats like saying u expected chapter 1 natsu to beat the final villain by the EoS OF COURSE u expect that.. but us readers (well most of us) like for the MC to actually put in work to beat an opponents and for the villains to live up to their hype. i dont have a problem natsu beating a spriggan but to be that much stronger than them and able to oneshot another even after getting stronger from enchanted in his base form was ridiculous. not only natsu. erza gray even my boy laxus (almost causally ajeel) when he was supposedly to a powerful opponents. honestly i was expecting teamwork. and a few 1v1 opponent (people who are stronger enough to do that) when natsu and lucy beat jacob it wasnt that bad of a fight. yes natsu oneshot him in FDKM. but it took him to go into that mode to beat not beatn in his base form like he did vs ENCHANTED NIENHART.

There was teamwork in taking down the Spriggans. In fact, most of them went down with team work. Oneshotting Neinhart wasn't that much of a surprise. The surprise was that he could do it in base mode, but it wasn't as if base mode Natsu was shown to be a fodder. Base Natsu still managed to oneshot Bluenote tiers, and had attacks that were arguably comparable to Grand Chariot.

thats my point natsu has been push to his limits in the series and DF didnt tap in. i can say that gajeel can tap into DF if he was emotion trigger but hasnt because he hasnt been push to his limit/hasnt going all out. yes we saw that he didnt go out against jackal but he oneshot him in base form with LFD spell that i agree but he was definitely going all out against franmath and tempester come on man r u gonna tell me that natsu hasnt been going all out in this whole entire series because he didnt tap in DF??

Natsu can go all out without using Dragon Force, if he is shown to have reached his limits by exhausting his power. That didn't happen against Franmalth or Tempesta. Natsu had enough power to go on to fight Mard Geer, where he used another LFD attack and then dragon force. You can make the case that Natsu went all out against Gajeel during Phantom, and that was without Dragon Force.

no ur not getting my point imsaying since that franmath has the ability to absorb magic. logically speaking he should be absorb hades magic with or without heart. so r gonna say that franmath>hades because he feats are magic based? anyways back debate. having hades powers=/= same level of power from hades himself. he may have his powers but his MP of attack =/= to hades. nakagmai nagates the attacks and proceeds to blitzes him be4 he realizes it.

If Franmalth fought Hades, Franmalth would absorb Hades' magic yes. Hades would still win once he figures out he can just crush him with non-magical item, so he can just grab a tree with a chain and smash him with it. Nakagami negates the magic power of Hades, but it cannot harm Franmalth. Only things without a soul can damage Franmalth. Nakagami is magical, and magic has a soul. Do you believe Mirajane's takeovers make her as strong as the thing she takes over? It's essentially the exact same thing with Franmalth.

except he needed FDKM to beat jacob which is a mid diff fight gildartz use a casual crashing magic to cube jacob which is a low diff/no diff for gildartz. FDKM demolition fist>unname crash magic. its the same logic when lucy was fighting an unserious brandish. if that was natsu natsu will probably oneshot a unserious brandish. just because i think gildartz is a tier above natsu doesnt mean the gap is very huge that ur think it is. natsu with DF is a tier above gildartz not base and FKDM is a tier below gildartz he mid diff natsu.

Gildarts didn't fight Jacob. Gildarts fought the historia of God Serena and used Empyrean, which his only named move. Empyrean wasn't exactly a casual move for Gildarts when he last used it on Bluenote. It was a finisher. Even if it's lower on the effort scale now that Gildarts is stronger, I see no reason why Gildarts used less effort than Natsu did using Demolition Fist. Natsu wasn't exhausted after fighting Jacob either.

but the thing is that ur saying that FH zeref makes him regenerate faster than base zeref which means that his zeref ''durablity has increased because of that. if his durablity is the same then it wouldnt be faster to regenerate then it does with base zeref which is why zeref said that DF wouldnt beat enough to kil him plus it making sound like ur saying DF natsu>BKDM natsu do u believe that? also IMO if u get a power up ur durability should incrase to but hiro sucks at PL. and nah DF demolist fist>any of gildartz attacks

I believe FH would only increase Zeref's durability if it physically alters his body, and you can make the argument that it does. I don't think it's a significant change though, so Zeref is still more or less human (bar the immortality). Igneel powered Natsu would kill Zeref. We don't know if DF Natsu would have killed Zeref, but it would have scattered his body. Zeref might be able to regenerate, but he would probably be unconscious for a while.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Again, sorry if this is off-topic.

Did I really have crazy high expectations of Natsu? Were they not, more or less, accurate?

I more meant that they were crazy high considering you thought this just after the Brandish intro, where it was made out that Natsu and Gray were overwhelmed by the Brandish's MP alone, not to mention her display of power.

I never expected Marin to be an actual threat to Fairy Tail. I never pegged him as being as strong as someone like Minerva. Natsu and Gray never used any real attacks against him, and he basically just teleported around. When you see Natsu oneshot Bluenote and then blow up a giant war god, you shouldn't assume that his karate chop against Marin and say that is the best example of his capabilities. Like I said, you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you thought Natsu was going to be a fodder in this arc - especially if it's because Marin tagged him a few times by teleporting around.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't expecting Marin to be super powerful and I wasn't thinking Natsu would be fodder in this arc (though I didn't think he'd be anywhere near top-tier), the Marin thing was just to point out how absurd the power fluctuation is at times. The problem though is that the manga painted Spriggans as freaks of nature, better than any prior villain and absolute juggernauts in comparison to the likes Natsu/Gray/Erza. Which is why the power scaling of this arc got screwed beyond all hopes - because Hiro didn't follow his own hype consistently. Hiro built up the Spriggans only to then have them lose, not only in 1 vs 1's, but sometimes in stomps. It just sucked out all tension in the arc for me because it became so formulaic.

Brandish and Ajeel were impressive when they were introduced, but I never pegged them as being tougher to beat than a GMG dragon.

You still pegged them pretty high considering that not even the Dragon Slayers could cause any lasting damage to a GMG dragon.

I had my suspicions that Natsu would only need 1-2 FDK moves to take down a Spriggan when Brandish was introduced. By the time Erza took down Ajeel with nakagami starlight, I was certain of it. The manga never hyped the Spriggans as mages that couldn't be soloed. When Laxus dropped the nuke on Ajeel, we got our first foreshadowing that the top tiers on Ishgar's side can hold their own against the Spriggans.

My bad on the un-soloable bit. Still though, my main point is that considering how astronomically the Spriggans were hyped, they were disappointing. And from my point of view, it was way too unbelievable, even for fiction. I mean, a year prior in the GMG, we were told that Jura (the monster of the GMG that only Jellal and Laxus could compare too) had been training over the 7 year gap but still wasn't anywhere close to any of the Gods of Ishgar. Cool, then we have the events of Tartaros and the 1 year time-skip. Now somehow over this 1 year time-skip, most of the main cast trains to the point that not only do they surpass one God of Ishgar, they surpass all of them + Jura combined. And not only do they surpass them, they grow so drastically in power that they can stomp opponents who are supposedly as powerful as the Spriggan that stomped the GOI + Jura. Even if we ignore this, the power growth of both Natsu and Gray is pretty tough to believe. Back in the GMG Jura/Laxus/Jellal would have easy-diffed/stomped either of them, but with 1 year of training they're suddenly just under or on-par with them. Even if Jellal/Laxus being able to stomp Spriggans is believable (though I even find that insane though given Spriggan hype), I find Natsu/Gray stomping Spriggans absurd. Maybe I'm just being harsh towards Hiro, but I found the power scale ridiculous in this arc, not to mention incredibly jarring thanks to the amount of hype that was ruined and how much the main cast improved.

 

[Axiomus]

Again, sorry if this is off-topic.

I more meant that they were crazy high considering you thought this just after the Brandish intro, where it was made out that Natsu and Gray were overwhelmed by the Brandish's MP alone, not to mention her display of power.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't expecting Marin to be super powerful and I wasn't thinking Natsu would be fodder in this arc (though I didn't think he'd be anywhere near top-tier), the Marin thing was just to point out how absurd the power fluctuation is at times. The problem though is that the manga painted Spriggans as freaks of nature, better than any prior villain and absolute juggernauts in comparison to the likes Natsu/Gray/Erza. Which is why the power scaling of this arc got screwed beyond all hopes - because Hiro didn't follow his own hype consistently. Hiro built up the Spriggans only to then have them lose, not only in 1 vs 1's, but sometimes in stomps. It just sucked out all tension in the arc for me because it became so formulaic.

You still pegged them pretty high considering that not even the Dragon Slayers could cause any lasting damage to a GMG dragon.

My bad on the un-soloable bit. Still though, my main point is that considering how astronomically the Spriggans were hyped, they were disappointing. And from my point of view, it was way too unbelievable, even for fiction. I mean, a year prior in the GMG, we were told that Jura (the monster of the GMG that only Jellal and Laxus could compare too) had been training over the 7 year gap but still wasn't anywhere close to any of the Gods of Ishgar. Cool, then we have the events of Tartaros and the 1 year time-skip. Now somehow over this 1 year time-skip, most of the main cast trains to the point that not only do they surpass one God of Ishgar, they surpass all of them + Jura combined. And not only do they surpass them, they grow so drastically in power that they can stomp opponents who are supposedly as powerful as the Spriggan that stomped the GOI + Jura. Even if we ignore this, the power growth of both Natsu and Gray is pretty tough to believe. Back in the GMG Jura/Laxus/Jellal would have easy-diffed/stomped either of them, but with 1 year of training they're suddenly just under or on-par with them. Even if Jellal/Laxus being able to stomp Spriggans is believable (though I even find that insane though given Spriggan hype), I find Natsu/Gray stomping Spriggans absurd. Maybe I'm just being harsh towards Hiro, but I found the power scale ridiculous in this arc, not to mention incredibly jarring thanks to the amount of hype that was ruined and how much the main cast improved.

Well, for the most part I expected the heroes to struggle mid-high diff to take down the Spriggans, and I feel like that's what we got for most of the fights. Natsu and Lucy have a history of taking on opponents with quirks, so I predicted that at least one of the fights would have them fighting an opponent with a quirky personality - which turned out to be Jacob. For top tier characters like Laxus, Hiro found ways to make his fights challenging by handicapping Laxus with a bunch of disadvantages. I didn't have a major problem with Gray vs Invel either. Invel was no pushover in the beginning, and Gray was emotionally charged after witnessing Juvia's fake death. Unlike many people, I don't have a problem with POF in Fairy Tail because in FT turning emotions into magic power is actually a real thing.

I considered what Natsu showed with FDK mode on par or superior to what he showed as with Atlas Flame's power, and I didn't expect that the average Spriggan would be tougher to drop than a dragon. When Laxus' dropped the nuke on Ajeel and August implied that it would have been enough to kill Ajeel, that further foreshadowed the type of attacks that it would take down a Spriggan. By the time Ajeel, Wall, and Neinhart dropped, it set the bar for what I assumed would be enough to take them out

It may be hard to believe that all the protagonists would have all so drastically improved over the timeskip, but for me that doesn't apply to the main cast. Finding out that Gray, Erza, Lucy, or Wendy improved dramatically over the timeskip wasn't what was jarring to me. And Natsu? The whole timeskip was setup around him specifically going to train, so I wasn't surprised by him either. I'll admit that side characters like Jellal dramatically improving to Spriggan level is a bit jarring, but Jellal has always played a prominent role in the series. IMO, the only truly jarring power-level portrayal this arc was how Elfman and Lisanna managed to get the better of Ajeel. This is the only fight that I truly have a problem with, and I largely just attribute that Elfman's sand beast and no sandworld.

 

[Unnamed Namesake]

Well, for the most part I expected the heroes to struggle mid-high diff to take down the Spriggans, and I feel like that's what we got for most of the fights. Natsu and Lucy have a history of taking on opponents with quirks, so I predicted that at least one of the fights would have them fighting an opponent with a quirky personality - which turned out to be Jacob. For top tier characters like Laxus, Hiro found ways to make his fights challenging by handicapping Laxus with a bunch of disadvantages. I didn't have a major problem with Gray vs Invel either. Invel was no pushover in the beginning, and Gray was emotionally charged after witnessing Juvia's fake death. Unlike many people, I don't have a problem with POF in Fairy Tail because in FT turning emotions into magic power is actually a real thing.

I considered what Natsu showed with FDK mode on par or superior to what he showed as with Atlas Flame's power, and I didn't expect that the average Spriggan would be tougher to drop than a dragon. When Laxus' dropped the nuke on Ajeel and August implied that it would have been enough to kill Ajeel, that further foreshadowed the type of attacks that it would take down a Spriggan. By the time Ajeel, Wall, and Neinhart dropped, it set the bar for what I assumed would be enough to take them out

It may be hard to believe that all the protagonists would have all so drastically improved over the timeskip, but for me that doesn't apply to the main cast. Finding out that Gray, Erza, Lucy, or Wendy improved dramatically over the timeskip wasn't what was jarring to me. And Natsu? The whole timeskip was setup around him specifically going to train, so I wasn't surprised by him either. I'll admit that side characters like Jellal dramatically improving to Spriggan level is a bit jarring, but Jellal has always played a prominent role in the series. IMO, the only truly jarring power-level portrayal this arc was how Elfman and Lisanna managed to get the better of Ajeel. This is the only fight that I truly have a problem with, and I largely just attribute that Elfman's sand beast and no sandworld.

My main problem is the loopholes. Gray goes against a spriggan who just so happens to be an ice demon? Sherria gets her boosted godslayer magic against the only character with a god soul? Sting goes against a spriggan whose magic he's absolutely immune to? Don't get me started on Irene. I don't have a problem with Laxus vs Wall because Laxus knew what he was getting into ahead of time, but these other "COINCIDENCES" just piss me off. This feels like Bleach all over again. Rushed story, I mean. Like he doesn't even have enough time to let them lose.

Natsu gets under my skin this arc because his power is all over the place. There's really nothing to gauge it. Was that war god strong? Is Jacob weak? How can Neinhart knock out Jellal offhandedly, but Natsu do the same to Neinhart? How does he measure against Sherria's third origin if they both beat Dimaria? I still say he's weaker than Laxus and Gildarts.

Jellal had seven years in advance, which we didn't get to see the full extent of after the timeskip, then he single-handedly defeated Oracion Seis which gave post-timeskip FT a run for their money, then had a whole 'nother year. He's clearly not top of the line like Laxus, Gildarts, August, Eileen, and God Serena, but he's probably in the Natsu/upper-middle Spriggan level.

Elfman and Lisanna? Same. Especially since that first fight in Magnolia was probably the best of the arc. Just bitch-slapping Erza every which way, then got hit by a Jupiter cannon and Erza's most powerful attack, and that he was back in the fight a few hours later. Then he gets beat by Danny Elfman and Lasagna, who are easily C and D-list characters, though this can also be attributed to the fact that they spent the last year training too, which we never got to see the fruits of. But a year of training before brought him up to Erza's level, able to beat Bacchus who Erza claimed was her equal. Lisanna is probably still shit, though.

 

[Axiomus]

My main problem is the loopholes. Gray goes against a spriggan who just so happens to be an ice demon? Sherria gets her boosted godslayer magic against the only character with a god soul? Sting goes against a spriggan whose magic he's absolutely immune to? Don't get me started on Irene. I don't have a problem with Laxus vs Wall because Laxus knew what he was getting into ahead of time, but these other "COINCIDENCES" just piss me off. This feels like Bleach all over again. Rushed story, I mean. Like he doesn't even have enough time to let them lose.

Natsu gets under my skin this arc because his power is all over the place. There's really nothing to gauge it. Was that war god strong? Is Jacob weak? How can Neinhart knock out Jellal offhandedly, but Natsu do the same to Neinhart? How does he measure against Sherria's third origin if they both beat Dimaria? I still say he's weaker than Laxus and Gildarts.

Jellal had seven years in advance, which we didn't get to see the full extent of after the timeskip, then he single-handedly defeated Oracion Seis which gave post-timeskip FT a run for their money, then had a whole 'nother year. He's clearly not top of the line like Laxus, Gildarts, August, Eileen, and God Serena, but he's probably in the Natsu/upper-middle Spriggan level.

Elfman and Lisanna? Same. Especially since that first fight in Magnolia was probably the best of the arc. Just bitch-slapping Erza every which way, then got hit by a Jupiter cannon and Erza's most powerful attack, and that he was back in the fight a few hours later. Then he gets beat by Danny Elfman and Lasagna, who are easily C and D-list characters, though this can also be attributed to the fact that they spent the last year training too, which we never got to see the fruits of. But a year of training before brought him up to Erza's level, able to beat Bacchus who Erza claimed was her equal. Lisanna is probably still shit, though.

I don't really have a problem with coincidences. It kind of works both ways. Gajeel had to fight an opponent who was intangible, and his element is the worst suited for it. Laxus had to fight someone who could counter his lightning. Neinhart and Jacob just have unconventional magic, so they are odd opponents to fight.

I consider Natsu among Ishgar's top tiers, which are Jellal, Gildarts and Laxus. Compared to Chelia, he's stronger. Chelia had a slayer advantage and required her strongest spell to beat Dimaria, and Natsu has better feats in Dragon Force. I don't have a major problem with Jellal's improvement. Neinhart isn't weak. He might not be the most durable, but he would have had magical power equivalent to any of the other Spriggans, so his attacks wouldn't be that weak. Besides, Jellal probably passed out because he was drowning. I'll just have to take it at face value that Elfman is just that strong

 

[Unnamed Namesake]

I don't really have a problem with coincidences. It kind of works both ways. Gajeel had to fight an opponent who was intangible, and his element is the worst suited for it. Laxus had to fight someone who could counter his lightning. Neinhart and Jacob just have unconventional magic, so they are odd opponents to fight.

I consider Natsu among Ishgar's top tiers, which are Jellal, Gildarts and Laxus. Compared to Chelia, he's stronger. Chelia had a slayer advantage and required her strongest spell to beat Dimaria, and Natsu has better feats in Dragon Force. I don't have a major problem with Jellal's improvement. Neinhart isn't weak. He might not be the most durable, but he would have had magical power equivalent to any of the other Spriggans, so his attacks wouldn't be that weak. Besides, Jellal probably passed out because he was drowning. I'll just have to take it at face value that Elfman is just that strong

I rank it like this.

A+: white Zeref, Acnologia, and August
A: Gildarts, Laxus, Eileen, and God Serena
A-:Jellal, Natsu, most of the Spriggans
B+:Gray, Erza, Mira, and any of the people just shy of Spriggan power
B: Lucy, Elfman, Gajeel, upper deckers
B-: Kind of casuals like Juvia
Then that continues down to F rank, which are guys like Toby that do more harm than good.