Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Axiomus]

Well..Natsu is already above Jellal's magical power without fireballs..given that he lolburnstime with just his fist. But yeah I'm mainly arguing it simply being a better feat than anything Jellal has done. RT Acno was so powerful that he was forced to split himself between body and soul. This massive increase shouldn't be overlooked. Why wouldn't this carry over to his spells? And the "strength" they lent couldn't have been anything beyond emotional support. An actual physical buff is out of the question. They were on an entirely different plane of existence.

Natsu used a fire dragon king's demolition fist to burn time, so there was definitely fire involved. Just so we're on the same page, this was the amount of power that it took for Natsu to break out of his crystal. If you're saying that breaking out of the crystal is a feat that requires more power than Jellal has, then one of Natsu's punches would be stronger than Jellal's entire reserve of magic. Like I said, I am generally not one to argue against Natsu being overpowered....but to suggest that a single punch from Natsu can outclass Jellal's entire reserve of MP seems a bit much.

I don't think it was just emotional support. Power of feelings is a real physical thing in this series, not a metaphor. I think hearing the voices of their loved ones gave them a boost in emotions which made them stronger. I would argue that if Natsu hadn't been hearing Lucy's voice, he wouldn't have had the power necessary to beat Acnologia in their final encounter.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2018 ---

Is Brandish stronger than the Dragon Eaters since she casually negated Skullion's magic?

Not necessarily. The Spriggans magics works on each other, and they are all around the same level. Skarion's magic being affected by Brandish, and vice- versa, doesn't tell us who is stronger. Besides, this really says a lot more about Gray than Skarion. Brandish's magic can be negated by a significant power boost, like when Irene enchanted Neinhart's magic power to be so strong that Brandish magic won't work on him. To respond to @WoWfan: If Gray at his strongest is not more powerful than enchanted Neinhart, then that would mean if Natsu was using his own powers he would be stomping Gray. All this would just make END's performance against Gray less impressive than what Natsu could do with his own powers .

 

[WoWfan]

No, it is simple, Gray would be physically strongest like before since Brandish can still effect him plus his magic is fresh at that point. Regardless of condition thus making END more powerful than he already is. Plus Gray has END and black marks which both effect demons and negate curses, plus it Is proven that Neinhart is physically weak compared to the other Spriggans

That or END’s real power is simply immune to magic at that point of awakening like how Dragons with their scales.

 

[Axiomus]

No, it is simple, Gray would be physically strongest like before since Brandish can still effect him plus his magic is fresh at that point. Regardless of condition thus making END more powerful than he already is. Plus Gray has END and black marks which both effect demons and negate curses, plus it
Is proven that Neinhart is physically weak compared to the other Spriggans

That or END’s real power is simply immune to magic at that point of awakening like how Dragons with their scales.

Brandish's magic can affect anyone on her level or weaker than her. She couldn't affect someone fart stronger than her like enchanted Neinhart. Neinhart was never proven to be physically weak. We've gone over this. He is not a summoner, he is a molding mage. Summoners have never proven to be weak either. If Brandish's magic can affect Gray at his strongest, then that would mean Neinhart is stronger than Gray at his strongest. That would make END less impressive for struggling so much with Gray. Even factoring the slayer advantage, Natsu went from stomping someone far stronger than Gray with his own powers to stalemating Gray with END's powers. Compare this to a dragon like Animus. Natsu would have had a slayer advantage against Animus, but Animus still managed to poke a hole through Natsu. That would have killed Natsu if not for massive PoF boost unlocking his half dragonized form. Why couldn't END do to Gray what Animus did to Natsu?

As it happens to be, Gray wasn't even in his demon markings when Brandish shrunk him. Skarion's attack actually shocked him out of the black markings when it landed, and the damage of that attack has Gray knocked out even now. I would argue Gray was in terrible shape when Brandish shrunk him.

.

 

[WoWfan]

It is when he never physically fought before
And went out of his way to avoid a fight and let his historias fight in his place. Summoner or not it doesn’t matter since Neinhart is physically weak and ran away most of the time. Yes, like Lucy was before as she needed her spirits to fight. Gray can just be physically stronger in his strongest since physical power can still be effected by brandish regardless. That doesn’t matter since END’s powers have been significantly reduced in power because of Gray’s demon marks. And even END was not at full power at the time so that did not help END either remember that Animus has Dragon Cry which increased his power significantly after Natsu rez and Natsu had not fought a dragon after the timeskip which makes his abilties less than impressive. Grey was in his demon marks as he was being disintegrated And when brandish shrunk him. That is really stupid what you said as you don’t shut people out of their forms you just beat them till they can’t sustain their forms, Nope, gray was still in his black marks by the time he was fully disintegrated. Gray was in no way or form that bad condition, if he was then he’d be dead since she’s been disintegrated so stop picking straws

 

[Axiomus]

It is when he never physically fought before
And went out of his way to avoid a fight and let his historias fight in his place. Summoner or not it doesn’t matter since Neinhart is physically weak and ran away most of the time. Yes, like Lucy was before as she needed her spirits to fight. Gray can just be physically stronger in his strongest since physical power can still be effected by brandish regardless. That doesn’t matter since END’s powers have been significantly reduced in power because of Gray’s demon marks. And even END was not at full power at the time so that did not help END either remember that Animus has Dragon Cry which increased his power significantly after Natsu rez and Natsu had not fought a dragon after the timeskip which makes his abilties less than impressive. Grey was in his demon marks as he was being disintegrated And when brandish shrunk him. That is really stupid what you said as you don’t shut people out of their forms you just beat them till they can’t sustain their forms, Nope, gray was still in his black marks by the time he was fully disintegrated. Gray was in no way or form that condition, if he was then he’d be dead since she’s been disintegrated so stop picking straws

How do you know he's never physically fought before? Neinhart was hitting Jellal with spells even without his Historia. He has never ran away. Why do you think Neinhart would be physically weaker than someone like Brandish, who gets knocked out by Cana and choked by Marin? Lucy was never physically weak. At least, no weaker than anyone else with her level of magic power.

Animus didn't have dragon cry when he stabbed Natsu. He only picked up dragon cry after he stabbed Natsu. Animus tanked one of Natsu's dragon slaying magic punches, and then stabbed Natsu. Why couldn't END just tank Gray's devil slaying magic, and stab Gray with his claws? According to you, END is supposedly stronger than a dragon.

There were no demon markings on Gray's face after Skarion hit him with black ash. You can get the page for yourself.

Spoiler: No demon markings here

 

[WoWfan]

From all of his battles we’ve seen, he never physically fought not once, even someone like you should know or in this case ignore. Neinhart used spells, not his fists, two different things. Sigh, brandish lost her concentration as she suffered from hay fever (which can make you physically weak) and Brandish was tied up and could not fight back and caught off guard both times. Shut up. I said after Natsu Rez, read better. Natsu never fought a dragon post time skip, so he could not really significantly harm Animus. Again, END is not fully completed and could not draw out his full power. Gray has better training with his DSM. In this case END is greater than a dragon. As he is stronger than Spriggans who are stronger than most Dragons. Sigh, you can obviously see the demon marks as he is being Disintegrated, How can you be this blind

 

[Axiomus]

From all of his battles beach scene, he never physically thought not ones, even someone like you should now or in this case ignore. Neinhart used spells, not his fists, two different things. Sigh, brandish lost her concentration as she suffered from hay fever (which can make you physically weak) and Brandish was tied up and could not fight back and caught off guard both times. Shut up. I said after Natsu Rez, read better. Natsu never fought a dragon post time skip, so he could not really significantly harm Animus. Again, END is not fully completed and could not draw out his full power. Gray has better training with his DSM. In this case END is greater than a dragon. As he is stronger than Spriggans who are stronger than most Dragons. Sigh, you can obviously see the demon marks as he is being Disintegrated, How can you be this blind

Does it matter whether Neinhart uses his spells or his fists? Lots of mages use spells to fight. It doesn't mean they are physically weak. Neinhart was never stated to be physically weak by anyone. He never ran away from battle. He could use decent attacks like anyone else. Why exactly do you think he's portrayed to be physically weak? I will concede that Brandish was tied up when Marin was choking her, but hay fever shouldn't cripple you. Brandish was just sneezing and had a stuffy nose. Erza was getting all the water from her body drained, and she still mustered the strength to pull off a victory against Ajeel. So I don't consider Brandish's hay fever as a a legitimate excuse. Besides, Dimaria took Brandish out with nothing more than a simple knife.

And I am saying Animus didn't have dragon cry when he stabbed Natsu, which is the important part here. Animus having dragon cry after Natsu's recovery is irrelevant. Why would Natsu not having fought a dragon mean that he couldn't have harmed a dragon. He was still using dragon slaying magic. Why would not fighting any dragons after the timeskip have any bearing on how strong Natsu's attacks are? How exactly does Gray have better training with his DSM? Gray hasn't fought any demons after the timeskip except for END either. Natsu has had a lifetime with his dragon slaying magic, and he's beaten more powerful opponents than Gray has with it. Gray's only had a year with his dragon slaying magic, and the strongest opponent outside of END he has beaten is Invel.

Where is the markings? Show me. Here is Gray's face as he get hit by the Ash Magic. No demon markings visible.

Here is Gray when he has the demon markings.

 

[WoWfan]

Yeah, and those fights have shown whether they physically fought before or not, so you have no room to talk, it is a common thing since the beginning of the series where a mage uses only magic and lacks physical strength. Neinhart was hiding from the battle the second time when his historias are out. He only used magic attacks, none are physical, and he went down after one or two attacks both times. Actually, the symptoms for hay fever does include headache, fatigue, itching, sneezing, stuffy nose, teary eyes, all the other physical irritations. Erza was different because she’s Erza, and she is in the class of anime badasses. That is called blitzing, plus she had time stop so Brandish could pass out from loss of blood or shock. And Natsu did not fight a dragon after the time skip, which is different, having Dragon Slayer magic did not mean you automatically won the fight, which all the previous instances show. Because during the one year, END was his goal in life, so he does have better control over his Devil Slayer magic, granted Natsu could have the same motivation with Acno, but that does not change they would not instantly win and Gray did defeat demons before, while Natsu has not defeated Dragons, not life time as he was still in his child form when he learned magic. And finally both of them were not in their best when they fought each other. You could see the markings as he was fading away into ash, his demon marked face was turning to ash.

 

[Axiomus]

Yeah, and those fights have shown whether they physically fought before or not, so you have no room to talk, it is a common thing since the beginning of the series where a mage uses only magic and lacks physical strength. Neinhart was hiding from the battle the second time when his historias are out. He only used magic attacks, none are physical, and he went down after one or two attacks both times. Actually, the symptoms for hay fever does include headache, fatigue, itching, sneezing, stuffy nose, teary eyes, all the other physical irritations. Erza was different because she’s Erza, and she is in the class of anime badasses. That is called blitzing, plus she had time stop so Brandish could pass out from loss of blood or shock. And Natsu did not fight a dragon after the time skip, which is different, having Dragon Slayer magic did not mean you automatically won the fight, which all the previous instances show. Because during the one year, END was his goal in life, so he does have better control over his Devil Slayer magic, granted Natsu could have the same motivation with Acno, but that does not change they would not instantly win and Gray did defeat demons before, while Natsu has not defeated Dragons, not life time as he was still in his child form when he learned magic. And finally both of them were not in their best when they fought each other. You could see the markings as he was fading away into ash, his demon marked face was turning to ash.

Since when? Was Angel physically weak? She tanked Urano Metria, which took out Jackal. Neinhart was never shown to be physically weak. So what if he fought with magic? How is that any different than every other mage that fights with magic? I honestly don't get your point. Are you saying every mage that doesn't use a magic that involves using their fists to punch is physically weak? Well, I guess Ajeel is physically weak then. He doesn't punch. He just attacks with magic.

All of which should not be debilitating factors to anyone that is seriously strong. Erza had it way worse, and still beat Ajeel. Laxus was literally poisoned, and still managed to tank several attacks from Wall. There should never be any excuse not to be able to tank attacks from Cana. Especially when it's not even a magical attack.The difference between Jellal's grand chariot or Natsu's punches versus Cana's chop is gigantic. Brandish has no impressive durability feats otherwise.

Natsu defeated Motherglare with Atlas Flame's power, so Natsu has defeated dragons even before the timeskip. Dragons are way harder to beat than Demons to begin with. You don't even have to be a slayer to beat a demon. Sting and Rogue could beat Larcade, who was the strongest demon after END. Natsu spent an entire year training just so he could become strong enough to beat Acnologia, who killed Igneel. Why would that make him less motivated than Gray? If anything, Natsu was the most motivated during the entire timeskip. He left the guild just so he could exclusively train. Actually, Natsu's timeskip actually involved him learning how to use Fire Dragon King spells, which is a type of dragon slaying magic. Igneel's power, which would have been dragon slaying magic, was his secret weapon. Gray's secret weapon that he prepared for END was actually lost iced shell, which is not his devil slaying magic. So really, who is relying on their slayer magic more?

In any case, Natsu was easily stomping the Spriggans with his dragon slaying magic. At his best, Natsu could defeat Zeref with his dragon slaying magic. Gray had to give it his all to beat a Spriggan like Invel with his devil slaying magic....and honestly? He still had to use ice make to imitate Invel's ice. It should not even be a debate: Natsu's dragon slaying magic is stronger than Gray's devil slaying magic. Animus did better against Natsu's dragon slaying magic than END's demon powers did against Gray's devil slaying magic. If END was truly stronger than a dragon like Animus, then it should have allowed Natsu to dominate Gray like Animus did to Natsu. Proving that Gray can be affected by Brandish's magic just proves that Gray's slaying magic wasn't at the level of enchanted Neinhart's magic powers. That makes END even less impressive in the grand scale of things. END doesn't become more impressive if you prove his opponents were weaker.

There's no devil marks on Gray. I just posted the pictures of Gray with the devil slaying marks and when he got hit by the ash dragonslayer. They look nothing alike.

 

[WoWfan]

What what we saw was just a last breath which is not saying much, she was still down by Urano Metria. He is physically weak, accept it, he was down after one or two hits, not even from his opponents strongest attacks. The difference is he is physically weak. No, I am saying that those who are physically weak are physically weak, and those who can fight physically are not. Laxus only experiences random attacks every now and then, where as Erza is just Erza, stop stupid comparisons, Brandish has a legitimate sickness, go away. It is Atlas that defeated Motherglare, Natsu defeated Rogue. Even Mavis confirmed this, stop talking. Yet Natsu was downed several times by demons, so no, demons are legitimate threats, it was Gray’s magic that turned the tied of battle in the end. Gray did when he uses it more effectively, and Natsu used Igneel’s power when he defeated a war god. Natsu trained and in the end it was in vain as Acnologia was to strong which required more power than he had before. Gray had just as much motivation as it was for his father, loss of someone dear to you should not be ranked. Just by the out come. Natsu could not kill Zeref, which is the point of this discussion, beating does not matter, just killing him, which only END can do. Which you posted both pictures where he has demon marks, which shows how uninformed you are, his marks were fading into ash. That only shows how impressive both his enemies and END really is when you see just how much stronger his enemies are. As Natsu was not even in his strongest before fighting Animus, so your point is wrong

 

[Axiomus]

What what we saw was just a last breath which is not saying much, she was still down by Urano Metria. He is physically weak, accept it, he was down after one or two hits, not even from his opponents strongest attacks. The difference is he is physically weak. No, I am saying that those who are physically weak are physically weak, and those who can fight physically are not. Laxus only experiences random attacks every now and then, where as Erza is just Erza, stop stupid comparisons, Brandish has a legitimate sickness, go away. It is Atlas that defeated Motherglare, Natsu defeated Rogue. Even Mavis confirmed this, stop talking. Yet Natsu was downed several times by demons, so no, demons are legitimate threats, it was Gray’s magic that turned the tied of battle in the end. Natsu trained and in the end it was in vain as Acnologia was to strong which required more power than he had before. Gray had just as much motivation as it was for his father, loss of someone dear to you should not be ranked. Just by the out come. Natsu could not kill Zeref, which is the point of this discussion, beating does not matter, just killing him, which only END can do. Which you posted both pictures where he has demon marks, which shows how uninformed you are, his marks were fading into ash

There is no reason for Neinhart to be physically weak. He got taken out by Grand Chariot, which was the same attack Jellal used to push back Acnologia. He got taken out by Natsu after he gave a nakama speech, which honestly would have been the fate of every other Spriggan. Not only is Neinhart never actually been suggested to be physically weak, he was actually enchanted by Irene to be stronger than the rest of the Spriggans. The whole reason Irene enchanted Neinhart was so that he could take out Erza. Why would she purposefully leave him weak when she even made fodders strong? Laxus' poisoning was in full effect when he fought Wall. Erza is just more durable than Brandish, who has never been shown to be tanking extremely strong attacks. Not just Laxus and Erza, but Brandish's hay fever is a lot less disabling than even Makarov's heart condition. So I don't buy this excuse at all. Just like Neinhart, Brandish does not have any feats of exceptional durability. Doesn't mean we say she is physically weak, and we shouldn't say that about Neinhart either.

Atlas Flame gave Natsu a push, but the final attack that defeated Rogue and Motherglare was cast by Natsu. Mavis said that none of the dragon slayers could slay any dragons. She's not wrong, as Natsu did not kill Motherglare. Doesn't change the fact he defeated her. Natsu considered Igneel his father, so his motivations to defeat Acnologia would have been just as strong as Gray's motivation to kill END. In any case, Gray didn't even beat END's powers, and END didn't manage to do any real damage to anyone stronger than Erza. Natsu actually managed to defeat FH Zeref with his dragon slaying magic, which is a greater feat than what Gray has achieved with his devil slaying magic. Also a greater feat than anything he achieved with END's demon powers. By extension, that makes Animus' performance against Natsu more impressive than END's performance against Gray.

Natsu only lost to demons during the Tartarus arc. Alvarez-arc Natsu would oneshot any of the demons, and Alvarez arc Natsu is what is important here. Again, Larcade was the strongest demon after END. Larcade was defeated by Sting, and slayed by base Zeref. Bloodman had all of the demon's powers, and he was defeated by Gajeel. Natsu is stronger than Sting and Gajeel, and he beat Zeref w/Fairy Heart. None of the demons would have been a threat to Natsu during the Alvarez arc.

Gray does not have demon markings here. If you think the shadows on his face are demon markings, they are not. That's just the way shadows are drawn on faces sometimes. Lots of characters that are not Gray are drawn this way. The demon markings have a distinct outline. I will post both images below again to highlight this difference. Also, when Gray gets demon markings, his right torso and arm become black as well. In another image, you can see Gray's right shoulder. No markings.

Spoiler: Gray without demon markings

Spoiler: Gray with demon markings

You know, my patience is not unlimited. You have been rude to me for several posts now. I had hope I would be able to reason with you, but I am realizing this is an exercise in futility. Next time you tell me to shut up or go away, I will treat your post as spam and just delete it. Attacking my arguments and explaining why they're wrong, or even silly, is fine. DIsrespecting me and telling me to shut up is not. Consider this your only warning.

 

[WoWfan]

Grand Chariot was not his strongest attack tho, nor did Neinhart tank it, Acno was just immune to the attack though, bad comparison yet again. Does not prove your point that Neinhart isn’t physically weak, he simply is, get over it. Irene only enchanted his magic, not his physical power, that is for those who are berserkers. How could Irene know that anyone would survive against Neinhart. Makarov is old, so his heart condition is more severe than Brandish hay fever, yet it doesn’t take away that she was still fatigue and not concentrated. You have not proof that it was Natsu who gave the final push to both of them, the angle does not match his trajectory of Natsu’s attack which could hit them both which he didn’t, Mavis stated that none of the Dragon Slayers defeated any dragons. It was Altas that defeated Motherglare. sting became as strong as Larcade after eating his magic, and then even more powerful after eating Rogues magic, so no, Sting just had the advantage here, same with Gajeel as he gained the same strength as Bloodman, but at the cost of some of his years. And no, Larcade was already barely on his two feet when Zeref killed him, and he was still alive after that hole to the chest, and Larcade did not expect him to attack him, Zeref was, Zeref just cheated. Animus was just at mountain level at best, no less Natsu used regular DS magic which is not even at his full power, so that cannot be used. Yet Natsu alone couldn’t kill Zeref, again, that doesn’t prove that Natsu alone can kill Zeref without END powers. END at his full power can kill Zeref, it is as simple as that, he just wasn’t at his full form. That is why he struggled against someone who reduces the strength of his attacks and has better damage effectiveness against him. Those were not shadows on his face as there is no shadow in the setting. Shadow drawing looks nothing like that. Again, the markings were fading from the ash. You cannot see it as he was disintegrating. Hey, you have been rude to me as well, calling me stupid for bad math, I have been as cordial as much as dipping my hand into a jar filled with barb wire, lemon juice and salt as this conversation can take me. The images you pull up do not prove what you are saying, some of which only prove my own. But I will refrain from saying shut up or whatever.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2018 ---

It can be simple if we just agree to disagree and move on with our lives

 

[Axiomus]

Grand Chariot was not his strongest attack tho, nor did Neinhart tank it, Acno was just immune to the attack though, bad comparison yet again. Does not prove your point that Neinhart isn’t physically weak, he simply is, get over it. Irene only enchanted his magic, not his physical power, that is for those who are berserkers. How could Irene know that anyone would survive against Neinhart. Makarov is old, so his heart condition is more severe than Brandish hay fever, yet it doesn’t take away that she was still fatigue and not concentrated. You have not proof that it was Natsu who gave the final push, the angle does not match his trajectory of Natsu’s attack which could hit them both which he didn’t, Mavis stated that none of the Dragon Slayers defeated any dragons. It was Altas that defeated Motherglare. sting became as strong as Larcade after eating his magic, and then even more powerful after eating Rogues magic, so no, Sting just had the advantage here, same with Gajeel as he gained the same strength as Bloodman, but at the cost of some of his years. Yet Natsu alone couldn’t kill Zeref, again, that doesn’t prove that Natsu alone can kill Zeref without END powers. END at his full power can kill Zeref, it is as simple as that, he just wasn’t at his full form. That is why he struggled against someone who reduces the strength of his attacks and has better damage effectiveness against him. Those were not shadows on his face as there is no shadow in the setting. Shadow drawing looks nothing like that. Again, the markings were fading from the ash. You cannot see it as he was disintegrating. Hey, you have been rude to me as well, I have been as cordial as much as dipping my hand into a jar filled with barb wire, lemon juice and salt as this conversation can take me. The images you pull up do not prove what you are saying, some of which only prove my own. But I will refrain from saying shut up or whatever.

I know full well Grand Chariot was not Jellal's strongest attack, but it was the attack Jellal used to knock back Acnologia, and Acnologia being immune to its damage is largely irrelevant. The only reason Neinhart was considered to be weak in the first place was because he went down easy to Jellal and Natsu. Well Jellal and Natsu have proven to be Ishgar's top tiers, along with Gildarts and Laxus. So that's really not an argument against Neinhart. Makarov even with his heart condition can tank a blast from Jupiter, which stunned Ajeel. Brandish was taken out by a chop by Brandish because of allergies. There's no reason to assume that Neinhart's durability was way below his peers.

Mavis said none of the dragon slayers could slay the dragons, not that they couldn't defeat them. Atlas flame threw Natsu at Rogue, Natsu connected and continued pushing Rogue and Motherglare into the Eclilspe Gate. What more proof do you need? If you want to see how that attack played out in real time, you can just watch how the anime portrayed that scene. In any case, it doesn't matter. According to you, the Spriggans are stronger than the dragons. Natsu was easily beating Spriggans like Jacob and Neinhart with power without using his strongest forms in dragon force or savage flames. Gray had to put a lot of effort into beating Invel, and you're adamant that merely having devil marks proves Gray was in his strongest form. Why then could Animus almost kill Natsu, but END couldn't break a stalemate with Gray? It would seem to me that Animus is stronger than END. Even if we put aside END, wouldn't Animus at least be stronger than the Spriggans that Natsu beat?
The vast majority of Stings power came from eating all of Rogues magic power, and not from eating Larcade's power. Rogue's magic was what gave Sting WSD, and WSD Sting was what defeated Larcade. Natsu doesn't need a power-up to be stronger than WSD Sting. His feats with Dragon Force alone are stronger than WSD Sting. Gajeel ate bloodman's particles to be able to turn his iron into something that can touch his particles because Bloodman was intangible. Natsu doesn't have this problem to begin with. There was only trace amounts of iron in those particles, so there wasn't a major power boost to go along with this. Again, Natsu doesn't need to get a power-up to be stronger than Gajeel here. Base Zeref is already stronger than all the demons. Fairy Heart makes Zeref even more overpowered. Natsu beat Zeref with Fairy Heart.

Sure, Natsu couldn't kill Zeref. But he beat him. That is more than what can be said for Gray. That is more than what can be said about END's power. The strongest person Gray has beaten is Invel. The strongest person END has beaten is Dimaria. If you want to pretend that Natsu could have become a full demon and kill Zeref, fine. But I can also pretend that Natsu could have become a full dragon, and bit off Acnologia's other arm. At some point, we just have to stick with what the manga shows us. Speaking of which, there were shadows on Skarion's face drawn in the same shading as Gray's.

Spoiler: Skarion

Look, if you feel that I have been rude to you, then I will apologize. I try to make a point of not making things personal. I would never try to dissuade you from posting on the forums. If I poke fun at what you are saying, know that I am only poking fun at your argument not you as a person. If you took offense to anything I have said, I will apologize here. You can poke fun at what I am saying too, that is fine. Anyways, I will be happy to agree to disagree. You may have the last word.

 

[WoWfan]

Still it would not matter if an attack pushes someone back, but it would be meaningless if it does not actually hurt Acnologia which it didn’t. That wouldn’t make any difference in this case as Neinhart made an effort to stay out of a fight that would require him to be physically involved, and using long range or hax spells would not make him physical. Makarov did not have a heart condition that effected him at the time, only until mid fight with Hades did it effect him. Jupiter mostly pushed him back which Erza finished him off. It would not matter as the strength of a dragon slayer is proportional to what they eat, and Rogues power would not make much of a difference since he was not on the same level as a Spriggan anyway. Slaying and defeating do not exist separately for dragons as they have scales that prevent them from being damaged. Plus Natsu only attacked Rogue from that angle, which is not in the direction of Motherglare. The anime has no real weight here as it is unreliable with different drawings and additions to the story that never happened in the manga. That is why Naruto does not have light speed reaction after dodging Madara’s attack. With Gajeel, he still ate something that belonged to Bloodman which made Gajeel the same level or higher than Bloodman which has his power. He was struggling with Gray because END was not at full power at the time. During the whole point of the plot, it is what that was about with Natsu slowly becoming a full demon. Remember Natsu could have become a full dragon but was stopped by the antibodies. The manga does indicate that Natsu can become a full demon. Even so, there was no reason for Gray to remove his marks which he would be at his strongest to minimize the risk of damage or death

Look, I apologize as well for what i said, i am just getting tired of continuing with going back and forth, but i am compelled to keep going, I simply believe with what is shown and/or what is suggesting that END is capable of such a thing, it would serve both of us justice if we simply agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Perronx]

LoL
Can't believe people actually discussed so much about such matter. What matter which is Natsu most powerful power specifically? He will just win somehow in the end, it's just too pointless. Just like he did that time with Zancrow (the first ultimate ex machina of a series we never forget), it'll happen again. Mashima will adapt the specific situation according to Natsu power (like burn the time itself) so he can win in some creative (and stupid) way. It's probably that Natsu's strongest power will still be written.

 

[WoWfan]

Actually, he has lost several times before or would have lost if not for outside assistance. And plus distorting time with fire/heat is still scientifically viable for winning. And Natsu eating Zancrow flames would just make it show he has to adapt new ways of consuming flames, that shows he is flexible in a fight

 

[Demon Hunter]

LoL
Can't believe people actually discussed so much about such matter. What matter which is Natsu most powerful power specifically? He will just win somehow in the end, it's just too pointless. Just like he did that time with Zancrow (the first ultimate ex machina of a series we never forget), it'll happen again. Mashima will adapt the specific situation according to Natsu power (like burn the time itself) so he can win in some creative (and stupid) way. It's probably that Natsu's strongest power will still be written.

yeah, very creative indeed...

 

[WoWfan]

yeah, very creative indeed...

It is actual scientific in that regard

 

[Demon Hunter]

It is actual scientific in that regard

yeah, I really care about that.

in fact, because of this, I will dedicate my entire life to being a scientist.

my first big experiment will be me jumping into a Black Hole to see if I can go back in time.

 

[WoWfan]

yeah, I really care about that.

in fact, because of this, I will dedicate my entire life to being a scientist.

my first big experiment will be me jumping into a Black Hole to see if I can go back in time.

There are theories that it could be possible in physics, anyway, this feat is nothing new in the fictional world