Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Livinbreathineatin]

Sadly erza tier is far out of reach of mira. Mishma hasnt taken mira seriously since forever.
Mira only gets gag fights

Actually wendy didnt really do anything.
Wendy touched irene once in the very start.
Then she enhanced erza to such an extend but irene didnt care and used her hat and her head to block erza sword
Then body swap nonsense happened. Erza didnt hit her in wendy body because she didnt want to hurt wendy.
Then wendy left the match.
After it was all erza till she overpowered dragon irene top tier move.
Then wendy helped erza bypass dragon immunity, alowing erza to injure irene seriously enough.

Whether people like it or not erza performed alot better than gildarts did against August
And cana remain in that fight through out
Wendy did not

The argument here isn't that Mirajane can't beat Lucy. It's that Mirajane takes a longer time to beat Lucy than it does for Natsu to beat Gajeel. Mind you, Natsu has more impressive feats than Mirajane across the board. You just have to take a look at any of his Alvarez Arc feats. JKO's argument for Mirajane being superior to Natsu isn't even that she has better feats than Natsu (because she doesn't). It's that Natsu has been randomly and inexplicably nerfed going from the Alvarez arc and the 100YQ, and for us to simply ignore everything that Natsu did during the Alvarez arc. All because in his eyes Natsu's current feats are somewhat less impressive than his Alvarez arc feats. Well, Mirajane's current 100YQ feats aren't impressive at all by any standard. So who is really nerfed? That's my point.

I'm not ingoring context at all. The meteor splitting feat was all Erza. There was an entire section of the fight where Erza was fighting Irene when Wendy was down. At that point, she wasn't getting boosted by enchantments. This is all Erza:

Spoiler: Erza vs Irene

Mirajane, on the other hand, exhausted her entire magic power supply fighting Juliet and Heine. Irene then came in and tied her up to a rock using the same magic as Heine's ropes, and then tortured her with Juliet's jelly.

Spoiler: Mirajane vs Irene

Against Erza, Irene is using actual attacks and stuff and Erza is defending well against them. She eventually decided that it was time to turn into a dragon and use her strongest attack, and Erza still destroyed the meteor. Mirajane was exhausted by Irene's subordinates to the point that when Irene got to her she could just use the magic from the swords to subdue her. Let's put that into perspective, alright? Erza, when still relatively in a bad shape from her fight with Ajeel, flexed with her magic power so much that Neinhart is now afraid of facing Erza. Irene had to personally enchant Neinhart, someone who is already a member Spriggan 12, to the point where Neinhart was unaffected by the magic of another Spriggan 12. This version of Neinhart was sent after Erza, where he was promptly oneshotted by Natsu. Natsu then went on to become enraged with END's power to fight Gray. Erza stepped in and blocked both Natsu's and Gray's all out attacks barehanded. Then she went on to face Irene. Erza at maximum POF is on a level of her own. I can very well see the argument of her being stronger than Laxus or Jellal in that state. The only person that surpasses it is Natsu when he's pushed to his own maximum POF. You can call it BS if you want, but it's still canon.

Again, in your first paragraph you’re still ignoring context. Mira was busy wasting time tying Virgo up to actually be battling Lucy who was fighting Lisanna at the time. How are Mira’s feats so far in the 100 year quest not impressive. I don’t really have anything to say about the Natsu vs Mira stuff.

Mira tanked Lucy’s SDM nuke that was strong enough to one shot Lisanna and leave her motionless. Mira was pretty unfazed and only had a few scratches afterward. How is that not impressive?

I mean, I basically said Erza had better endurance and she’d 100% outlast Mira in a battle. I know how strong she is when she’s high on the PoF. I was saying that Mira still is closergo her in terms of power than you think?

 

[Demon Hunter]

I just remembered that Minerva easily tanked with her shield one attack from Natsu that is powerful enough to defeat Etherious Jackals.
Damn! Minerva is just so good without plot putting down her magic.

https://mangabeast.com/manga/Fairy-Tail/0283-014.png - https://mangabeast.com/manga/Fairy-Tail/0283-015.png - https://mangabeast.com/manga/Fairy-Tail/0283-016.png

I think she redirected the attack rather then tanking it.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

I think she redirected the attack rather then tanking it.

It's a shield.

 

[Demon Hunter]

It's a shield.

I know but the attack went behind them like it was teleported.

her magic can teleport things

still mad impressive though.

 

[Axiomus]

Again, in your first paragraph you’re still ignoring context. Mira was busy wasting time tying Virgo up to actually be battling Lucy who was fighting Lisanna at the time. How are Mira’s feats so far in the 100 year quest not impressive. I don’t really have anything to say about the Natsu vs Mira stuff.

Mira tanked Lucy’s SDM nuke that was strong enough to one shot Lisanna and leave her motionless. Mira was pretty unfazed and only had a few scratches afterward. How is that not impressive?

I mean, I basically said Erza had better endurance and she’d 100% outlast Mira in a battle. I know how strong she is when she’s high on the PoF. I was saying that Mira still is closergo her in terms of power than you think?

Context of what? Why she still hasn't beaten Lucy? Okay, even if I accept that, tying up Virgo or tanking an attack that just took out Lisanna isn't that impressive. Mirajane still hasn't done anything that impressive.

Well, how close do you think Mirajane is to Erza's level?

Why does it have to be a different flame when it is simply an increase in one’s stats? The hottest flames he ever had made was with Savage Flames which warp Time itself, totally different. Modes don’t need to change the body, just what they use to increase one’s stats, no different from LFDM. Why would it boost his magical reserves, it is just his powers that are increased which is obvious even someone who hasn’t read the manga would see. By your logic, Jacob did not have any burn marks, yet without FDKM, Madmole was burned all over who both specializes in Durability and Heat resistence, that means Jacob is more impressive, that speaks a level of impressive showings. Even Madmole could not fight anymore afterward and that he was at a disadvantage. It doesn’t matter as the mode is better without the mode.

And from showings the mode is more powerful than standard techniques, where the attack that did Madmole in was no that large and didn’t destroy the ship, while FDKM disintegrated most of the lake and created a massive rig in the bedrock

And how does FDK mode increase Natsu's stats? It's not a different flame, not a hotter flame, doesn't change his physicals, or increase his magic power. Savage flames is just the name Zeref calls the flames that Natsu made when he used FDK demolition fist when amped on power of feelings.

Jacob was out cold and had all his clothes burnt off. By all rights, Jacob was utterly defeated. Madmole wasn't defeated at all. Madmole literally jumped back into action when Skullion called for him. Even if Natsu could have eventually beat him, it would have likely taken many more hits on the level of FDK Purgatory to actually finish him off. Skullion just didn't like his chances now that Natsu and Erza proved they could beat Madmole and Kyria.

Natsu enterng FDK mode didn't damage the bedrock. What entering the mode did was evaporated the water and burned Jacob. What actually damaged the bedrock underneath was Natsu punching Jacob along the ground. The amount of flames in that particular demolition fist wasn't all that much. Most of the damage to the rock below was caused by Jacob being pushed by the force of the punch. Natsu couldn't even move Madmole with demolition fist. Purgatory did damage parts of the ship and was causing the lower deck to slowly melt. Keep in mind that the ship itself is actually part of Skullion's molding magic, and Skullion is a powerhouse in his own right.

 

[WoWfan]

It doesn’t have to be a different flame to increase one’s power, Natsu even achieved higher stats before in different forms or power ups without it being any new flames. It is definitely more intense in heat than before. Savage Flames refers to the heat Natsu gives off that surpasses his limits distorts the fabric of Time. Nothing his previous forms, techniques nor heat has done. This is definitely a flame beyond anything. Madmole could not fight anymore which both sides confirmed, and the power output was definitely different between the two, Standard FDK technique burned Madmole, FDKM + FDK technique and Jacob was not burned to a crisp. Jacob could definitely handle the heat while Madmole could not. FDKM did damage the bedrock as you can see from his attack while standard FDK purgatory did not. He literally vaporized a lake when he entered the mode, that is more energy than what Purgatory technique did. Natsu did move Madmole, by a few feet and he was down. I don’t care if he got back up it is still a down, white eyes are considered being unconscious in those situations

If Mira struggled against someon like Jacob who could produce an explosion large enough to be seen while it was from the outskirts of town. then FDK Purgatory is weaker than FDKM + FDK DF.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

I am always wondering what happened to Bacchus in the GMG arc. He was introduced as someone strong as Erza in the past, did a good fight with Elfman and...... was trashed in his defeat by Ichiya and worse than that was knocked out with just a single blow by Sting in the last exam.
WTF?

 

[Star Frost]

Again, in your first paragraph you’re still ignoring context. Mira was busy wasting time tying Virgo up to actually be battling Lucy who was fighting Lisanna at the time. How are Mira’s feats so far in the 100 year quest not impressive. I don’t really have anything to say about the Natsu vs Mira stuff.

Mira tanked Lucy’s SDM nuke that was strong enough to one shot Lisanna and leave her motionless. Mira was pretty unfazed and only had a few scratches afterward. How is that not impressive?

I mean, I basically said Erza had better endurance and she’d 100% outlast Mira in a battle. I know how strong she is when she’s high on the PoF. I was saying that Mira still is closergo her in terms of power than you think?

Well for starters, Mirajane>Lucy>Lisanna. And you find it really impressive of her to tank an attack that came from someone who she's already stronger than that only took out Lisanna; somebody who she's also already stronger than as well? If Lucy's attack was shown to be capable of taking out someone like in Erza's level for example then you can say it is an impressive feat from Mira. But so far shown it's not. So her tanking it is nothing impressive.

 

[Ratrace]

I don't see why both Erza and Mira can't be close to equal and still have Lucy endure Mira attacks. Also Lucy has endured worse then what Mira is doing right now

 

[LaGOAT]

But does he actually need a mode for it? I'm gonna say no, since he didn't even use it on Zeref in their final fight. FDKM is probably a thing of the past.

Zeref is fodder base natsu was enough to take him down his immortality is the reason why he consider a top tier character.

 

[Axiomus]

It doesn’t have to be a different flame to increase one’s power, Natsu even achieved higher stats before in different forms or power ups without it being any new flames. It is definitely more intense in heat than before. Savage Flames refers to the heat Natsu gives off that surpasses his limits distorts the fabric of Time. Nothing his previous forms, techniques nor heat has done. This is definitely a flame beyond anything. Madmole could not fight anymore which both sides confirmed, and the power output was definitely different between the two, Standard FDK technique burned Madmole, FDKM + FDK technique and Jacob was not burned to a crisp. Jacob could definitely handle the heat while Madmole could not. FDKM did damage the bedrock as you can see from his attack while standard FDK purgatory did not. He literally vaporized a lake when he entered the mode, that is more energy than what Purgatory technique did. Natsu did move Madmole, by a few feet and he was down. I don’t care if he got back up it is still a down, white eyes are considered being unconscious in those situations

If Mira struggled against someon like Jacob who could produce an explosion large enough to be seen while it was from the outskirts of town. then FDK Purgatory is weaker than FDKM + FDK DF.

I never said that you need to have a different flame to increase your power. You still haven't answered my question: How does FDK mode increase Natsu's stats? FDK mode doesn't give Natsu any physical abilities or increase his magical power. It also doesn't make Natsu's flames hotter than what Natsu can normally with regular FDK spells. Like I said, the hottest flames Natsu ever used was done with an FDK spell without the mode. Savage flames is just what Zeref called Natsu's power of feelings. It's not a real mode, and it's not the name of an actual magic. The actual attack that Natsu used against Zeref was Fire Dragon King's demolition fist, and this particular attack was boosted by Natsu's power of feelings. Zeref observed the flames coming off from this attack, and called it a "blaze of savage emotions". All of this went on inside Zeref's head. Natsu has actually never even heard of the term "savage flames" because the only time it's been mentioned is in Zeref's private thoughts. To Natsu, he just used a Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist with power of feelings.

Like I said, entering FDK mode vaporized the water and burnt up Jacob. Natsu punching Jacob with Demolition Fist was what caused the ground to split. It wasn't even the heat that split the bedrock. It was the sheer physical force of Natsu's punch pushing Jacob along the ground. The mode doesn't increase Natsu's physical strength. Besides Natsu can break rock even without entering FDK mode with his base mode attacks, so this doesn't really tell us anything. Why are you guys pretending Jacob actually tanked something? He was flat out defeated. Jacob was out cold and unable to move. Madmole jumped right back up.

The attack Mirajane used against Freed was building level at most. It made a cloud of dust that Erza saw while she was in the middle of the street. Also, Erza wasn't in the outskirts of town. She was minutes away from the Karda Kathedral, which is smack in the middle of Magnolia.

Spoiler: Mirajane vs Freed

This attack is not even as impressive as Alvarez-arc Natsu's base mode attacks. Mirajane used the exact same nukes against Azuma on Tenrou Island when she was desperately trying to take down Azuma to save Lisanna. Natsu lazily oneshotted Bluenote, the ace of Grimoire Heart, with a roar. If you put Alvarez-arc Natsu in Mirajane's shoes on Tenrou Island, Natsu would have trolled the ever-loving daylights out of Azuma. Also, Jacob didn't struggle against these nukes. Jacob spent the majority of the fight slapping around Mirajane without a takeover, and was oneshotted by a single punch when Mirajane used Satan Soul.

 

[LaGOAT]

I would argue that Natsu didn't really need FDK mode to beat Jacob. If he had hit Jacob with demolition fist right off the bat, it would have done pretty much the same damage.

The FDK mode is just a way for Natsu to light himself up with FDK flames, just like LFD mode is just Natsu lighting himself up with lightning and fire. Using a mode doesn't increase Natsu's magical reserves. It's just Natsu using stronger type of fire with the magic he already has. There shouldn't be a difference between the flames released by Fire Dragon King mode and the flames in a fire dragon king spell. It's just fire dragon king flames. If you believe FDK mode makes Natsu's flames hotter than regular FDK then what you are essentially saying is that there's a new thing called "Fire Dragon King Mode flames" and that this new type of flame is somehow different than "fire dragon king flames".

Not only that, but canonically the hottest flames that Natsu has ever used is a regular Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist without the mode. In this instance, Natsu simply tapped into his power of feelings to boost the strength of his attack. Which is to say, he was trying harder. So really at the end of the day, the mode doesn't really matter. What matters is how much effort and magic power Natsu is putting into his attacks.

Again what’s the point of a mode if they”re isn’t a difference in base? If that’s the case why not just use a fdk spell instead using a mode? I’m not debating if the flames are hotter I’m saying that using that mode increases his stats like for isnatance FDKM demolition fist>base natsu using a fdk demolition fist. To me it doesn’t make sense if fdkm purpose is to cover himself in flames if it doesn’t do increase his stats. Same with ldfm

 

[WoWfan]

That is exactly what you are making it out to be, stop trying to change your thoughts. The point is that it is plainly obvious that FDKM augments his current power and attacks. And that is what Everyone calls those flames that effect time itself, Savage Flames, no other showing has ever displayed such a power before or heat, unless you can show something similar that distorts the very fabric of reality and laws of physics you have nothing to go on here (and no, Ignia’s flames don’t count as it is an ability those flames have to burn anything). That is the weakest version Mirajane showed at the time, you cannot even see Mira from that distance so the explosion is obviously large than you claim it to be. She lost most of her power at that point, she had to reclaim and train to become stronger. I never said Erza was at the outskirts of town, what she was seeing was from the outskirts of town which is quite a distance away. Even fighting Azuma she already spent most of her power which she could have defeated had she been at full power, he did not struggle because He was strong which Mira stated, Mira clearly did not just turned into her satan soul at that moment she did it before a while back.

 

[Axiomus]

Again what’s the point of a mode if they”re isn’t a difference in base? If that’s the case why not just use a fdk spell instead using a mode? I’m not debating if the flames are hotter I’m saying that using that mode increases his stats like for isnatance FDKM demolition fist>base natsu using a fdk demolition fist. To me it doesn’t make sense if fdkm purpose is to cover himself in flames if it doesn’t do increase his stats. Same with ldfm

Well, you tell me. I can think of in-story reasons for why covering yourself in flames sometimes helps you fight. But if you want an honest answer about why Natsu uses a mode, the most likely answer is probably because Hiro Mashima thinks that it looks cool to draw Natsu lightning up in a new form. If you want to make the argument that the mode increases Natsu's stats, you have to explain what exactly is the stat is being increased. We have heat of his flames, we have physical strength, and we have magical power. What attribute does entering the mode actually increase?

That is exactly what you are making it out to be, stop trying to change your thoughts. The point is that it is plainly obvious that FDKM augments his current power and attacks. And that is what Everyone calls those flames that effect time itself, Savage Flames, no other showing has ever displayed such a power before or heat, unless you can show something similar that distorts the very fabric of reality and laws of physics you have nothing to go on here. That is the weakest version Mirajane showed at the time, you cannot even see Mira from that distance so the explosion is obviously large than you claim it to be. She lost most of her power at that point, she had to reclaim and train to become stronger. I never said Erza was at the outskirts of town, what she was seeing was from the outskirts of town which is quite a distance away. Even fighting Azuma she already spent most of her power which she could have defeated had she been at full power, he did not struggle because He was strong which Mira stated, Mira clearly did not just turned into her satan soul at that moment she did it before a while back.

Again, what attribute does entering FDK mode offer Natsu over simply using an FDK spell? If you can explain that, I will concede the argument.

Only the fans use the term "savage flames" because it's a shorthand way to talk about a specific moment. Zeref is the only character that called Natsu's flames a "blaze of savage emotions". He's never said it out loud, and he's dead. Natsu has literally never ever heard of the term "savage flames" and doesn't refer to any of his own spells, modes, or flames in that manner. As far as Natsu is concerned, he used a Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist boosted with the power of feelings.

The nuke is as large as Mirajane to Freed, and you can't see the two because there's a bunch of dust obscuring them. And why was Mirajane almost out of power? Because she had a short match with Elfman and Evergreen, and lost to them because of gag? Natsu wouldn't run out of power period. Imagine if you replaced Mirajane with Alvarez-arc Natsu on Tenrou. Natsu would oneshot Azuma like he did Bluenote, and then move on to the next opponent without breaking a sweat. He would interrupt Gildart's fight with Bluenote, and oneshot Bluenote for the lols. Then he would go and troll the everloving daylights out of Hades by beating him up repeatedly while Hades recovers with his Heart. Mirajane only used Satan Soul for the final attack against Jacob. This was elaborated in the anime fillers, and those fillers is as canon as Acnologia's backstory.

 

[WoWfan]

Even in the beginning of the manga, covering himself in flames did not help since it is still subjected to natural phenomena as well, unless it is to increase his power, which was not the case at that point. WOW, that is such a cheesy reason to go on, it is obvious the stats that were increased are exactly what it does. Again, to increase it’s power when using, with his standard heat he has a certain range, while in FDKM, he evaporated a lake, that is definitely a power increase.

The term Savage Flames also is terms for the power that is being displayed at that moment and what it did, even Natsu did not use the term Dragon Force while others did. You do not need to say all the spells or techniques for them to happen, you can just do them, that doesn’t make them any less real or anything more imaginary.

If the nuke was as Mira to Freed then we would have been able to see them from Erza’s point of view but we did not, so they are farther away and it is much larger, there was barely any dust left, and not enough to obscur their physiques, because of her sister’s apparent death, she lost the will to fight and most of her power, Cana made a point of this in Phatom, even after using Satan Soul in Tenrou she was not at full power, likely after being out of practice for years see got rusty too in holding her forms. Unless you can see the entire fight without it being offscreen you cannot prove that she just turned into Satan Soul, which there is obvious signs of transformation, magical release, bodily morphing, etc.

 

[Axiomus]

Even in the beginning of the manga, covering himself in flames did not help since it is still subjected to natural phenomena as well, unless it is to increase his power, which was not the case at that point. WOW, that is such a cheesy reason to go on, it is obvious the stats that were increased are exactly what it does. Again, to increase it’s power when using, with his standard heat he has a certain range, while in FDKM, he evaporated a lake, that is definitely a power increase.

The term Savage Flames also is terms for the power that is being displayed at that moment and what it did, even Natsu did not use the term Dragon Force while others did. You do not need to say all the spells or techniques for them to happen, you can just do them, that doesn’t make them any less real or anything more imaginary.

Covering yourself in flames means you get to punch and burn stuff if people come close to you. It doesn't offer you a tremendous advantage in combat. Nobody has yet to manage to explain to me exactly why entering a mode makes you stronger.

Savage flames is just what Zeref calls the flames that were powered by Natsu's power of feelings. It's not a mode or a special type of fire. There's no "Savage flame mode". Natsu just amped himself up on power of feelings, and then used a Fire Dragon King's demolition fist. That is quite literally what happened. Zeref then wondered how Natsu's flames were so powerful, and came to the conclusion that the it was due to the "savage emotions" that Natsu had.

Spoiler

Dragon Force is what happens when you gain the physical properties of a dragon. It doesn't matter what you call it.

 

[WoWfan]

Yet Natsu is not the person that lets people come to him, he goes to them, it does when it is a specific mode that obviously increases your power, even with covering his body in fire does not help him every time. Look at Natsu vs Hades, Natsu could not hurt Hades until he became stronger with LFDM. It is not power of feelings that were involved, it is the flames of emotion, the more feelings he has, the more intense the flames become, which is what shows when he distorted time. Power of feelings in most cases is when you connect with the bonds of others to make you stronger than before, though I have to say in this case, it is a combination of both as his flames became the guild’s flame, so it would make sense. Demolition Fist alone was not enough, as proven before. So is Savage Flames yes you do not have to name it everytime to use it.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Jura trained after GMG so that he can beat Laxus or something

I think that's orga. I remember seeeing a card.

 

[Seven777]

That isnt right
Is freed magic most easiest magic to learn?

It makes no sense,
If other characters arent doing something like this laxus becomes an anomaly
Thats is an asspull

I am sure you will love it if instead of laxus vs jellal
We are about to get now
Instead we get that erza had made some jutsu in that particular place where only erza can do magic. And she low diffs magicless laxus and jellal

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 22, 2019 ---

No training cant be used as an excuse like this
We have seen natsu gray laxus train
We know the result
No new magic
New spell of their own magic sure



Training makes you stronger
If after training gray started to use lightening magic against an opponent who is immune to ice but weak against lightening we all are gonna have problem

I dunno, maybe it’s easy to get the basics down.

Laxus isn’t an anomaly if it’s already been done since Tenrou. If anything Bixlow is the anomaly, and he might be able to do it too.

As for Erza, if she used a new magic she learned to cure an affliction she acquired from someone else before the battle that’d be fine. Her even using Grand Chariot would be fine, though it’s much more random than Laxus using some runes

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 23, 2019 ---

Zeref is fodder base natsu was enough to take him down his immortality is the reason why he consider a top tier character.

Sure, but Natsu was in base against FH Zeref too, and his base FDK Demolition fist is better than any FDK mode attack. As for why he went FDK mode on Jacob, prob just did it to show off he could, and because Mashima wanted to show off he could. Natsu may also have wanted to overwhelm Jacob with his FDK flames too. Or maybe FDK mode does make him stronger(despite his strongest FDK attack being in base), doesn't really matter. The effort Natsu put into beating Jacob was minimal, he was a joke to Natsu, so he's far weaker than Gajeel.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Erza > Kagura > Minerva/Mirajane