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Sorry for the late reply , you know I get only limited free time to surf on the web lol.Oh my bad, I didn't mean to insinuate you were trying to use CS vs August as an anti-feat, I was just bringing it up because its an example of why Alvarez Jellal is hard to rank - Hiro put him up against relative fodder and then his only other fights were with the two of the most OP characters in the series lol.
Trust me, I'm not denying that Acno was jobbing hard during Alvarez (the only other character that comes close to jobbing as bad as Acno is Zeref ). My issue is that a lot of characters lose a lot of feats if we start saying that feats against jobbing characters aren't impressive (for example Mira's 1 vs 1 with Jacob looks awful in this light). And the funny thing is, I would agree with using this line of logic in any other arc/series. But Alvarez... Alvarez is full of jobbers, in fact pretty much every Spriggan as well as Zeref count here. Which means practically every feat against them suddenly becomes unimpressive. A few examples:
- Natsu vs Zeref = Zeref, someone hyped as a magical genius, only fights Natsu with unnamed spells and hand-to hand
- Natsu vs FH Zeref = Zeref, capable of literally resetting the whole FT timeline and hyped to be a possible match for Acno, is beat by an emotional base Natsu
- Natsu vs Enchanted Neinhart = Instead of just standing back and attacking with new Historias, he casually walks up and gets promptly two-shotted by nameless punches from base Natsu
- Gajeevy vs Bradman/Bloodman = Bradman, someone with all 9 curses of the Demon Gates, can't even kill Levy and doesn't bother using the most hax curses he has
- Mira vs Jacob = Jacob just needs to clap FFS
- Gildarts and Cana vs August = A guy capable of destroying the entirety of Magnolia and stomping CS with ease barely touches Cana despite the fact he could easily catch her within an AoE attack
The whole arc is filled to the brim with villains jobbing, if we start saying that characters' feats are poor because they are against jobbing villains, where does the line stop?
Eh, personally I think August was serious in his battles post-Brandish stabbing. Dude was pissed. Even if he didn't continue fighting with his anger, August has constantly displayed himself as the most focused Spriggan. He just doesn't strike me as the type to not be serious when he knows the fate of Earthland is on a timer.
Of course there is the question that if August is serious, why didn't he just start of with nukes. And I have no answer to that lmao.
Honestly Neinhart's weak durability is constantly exaggerated IMO. Him getting two-shot by POF base Natsu should be acknowledged as just that - POF. I know people like to meme on Zeref (@Jean Grey) and call him trash, but isn't it still widely accepted that Savage Flame Natsu would pretty much one-shot anyone beneath God-tier opponents?
Neinhart's only other durability feat may be getting dunked on by Jellal, but there is a clear difference between a pissed off Jellal using a spell that changes the whole skyline vs two nameless punches.
Completely agree here, there's a very clear difference between AoE and attack potency.
That being said, Jellal's best attacks do tend to be the ones with the biggest AoE (Altairis is an exception to this).
I agree somewhat. I definitely agree that going off feats alone, Jellal can't take current Laxus, though I reckon he should still be able to give him a good match. As for Natsu, it depends on the mode. Ignoring the massive POF feats of base Natsu, Jellal should be able to take him down. FDKM Natsu is harder to debate since he actually is pretty good, but Jellal should still be solidly faster and shouldn't be that far off offensively since he's good at spamming his attacks. DF Natsu obviously trounces him.
This being said, I wouldn't say his Alvarez feats are consistently bad, they are simply inconsistent. Jellal goes from getting one-shot by Neinhart to having a fight with August where he tanks multiple attacks. His offensive power is harder to gauge though, since his only quantifiable feat is against Neinhart. Against Acnologia, its impressive that he managed to push him back but the Magic immunity means we have no idea how powerful Pleiades, Nine Thunder Swords and Grand Chariot are.
Despite the inconsistent feats though, he's still portrayed as quite strong relative to Natsu/Laxus/Gajeel/Mira/etc. Like, would Hiro/Ueda constantly be teasing the fight if they weren't at least close in power?
If we closely examine many of the fights in Alvarez they become far less impressive, legit basically every Spriggan fight becomes a case of Good Guy won because X (Spriggan/Zeref/Acno) had major PIS.
Ah, I don't think so. For one that might have just been ToH Jellal hyping himself up, since I highly doubt ToH Natsu is tanking a meteor. Even if that isn't the case, the fact that Jellal always goes for GC first and then goes to Sema if the opponent manages to withstand GC is a heavy hint that Sema is at least a step up from GC. Just look at GMG Jellal vs Jura, Jellal clearly thought Sema could do the job that GC couldn't.
Um well , actually if you ask my opinion , I've devised a method for the power scaling for the Alvarez arc the comic style.i.e. use of PIS anti feats in correct places. ( We usually do that in comics because the writers are different for each publication and due to varying views the power scaling varies too. Usually it isn't required for works done by one author , but you know ... it's Mashima lol )
For any character ,
1) Check ALL the feats for the character in context , i.e. feats for durability , attack , MP , etc.
2) Now , if there's a case of a villain jobbing ( i.e. he didn't use an ability which he should have ideally ) , and we want to know HAD the villain used the ability , whether he could have won , then we need to have FEATS of that particular ability which allow him to defeat his opponent. If no feats , which means we automatically assume it wouldn't work against the opponent unless there's hype supporting it.
Example : Okay , let's consider Larcade vs Natsu. Suppose Larcade casts Pleasure and Natsu has to endure it ( suppose Natsu fucks Lucy and loses his virginity ) . Now , this particular ability's feat of Larcade has been showcased before. This spell was capable of incapacitating Gildarts and Laxus on the battlefield. ( It's an excuse made up by Laxus fans that he wouldn't be affected if he knew Larcade was the enemy , the fact is that he was incapacitated on the battlefield when there were enemies around .Absolutely no reason why he would not resist the spell if he could )
So , if that spell is capable of affecting Gildarts , even if he didn't cast it on Natsu , and even if Larcade "lost" without casting it , I assume Larcade still would've won , because that spell of his has feats of incapacitating an opponent stronger than Natsu.
But at the same time , I will NOT assume that the spell succeeds in taking Natsu's soul. Because the only people which it succeeded consuming the souls of were fodders. So while that spell has got feats of incapacitating someone stronger than Natsu , it doesn't have the qualifications required to consume Natsu's soul. However , incapacitation is enough for me to give him a win.
The same goes with Bloodman. Here , we don't know what would've happened had he used his 9 demon gate curses. However , the difference here in this case is that the curses are FEATLESS. They don't have any feats of harming anybody of Gajeel's tier , unlike Larcade's spell. So , in this case , I assume those spells anyway wouldn't have worked on Gajeel at all. That's the reason he didn't use them .
3) If a character has got an opportunity to finish off their opponent multiple times , but they don't ( because jobbing ) , then it kinda tells us that the villain in question is stronger and holding back.
e.g. Larcade could've killed Sting on multiple occasions , Brandish could've easily killed Lucy and Natsu , Dimaria could've killed her opponents many times , etc.
4) And last , if a temporary form of a character ( Natsu and Gray , since none apart from them have pulled off something similar ) manages to overwhelm someone proven to be superior to them , then it isn't an anti feat for their opponent , but rather a feat for them.
e.g. : Zeref's MP was already >>> Natsu's MP , by scaling via the enchantment feat as well as the fact that he immobilized Natsu in one single spell at the end and forced him to go DF. His durability was also off the charts as he tanked attacks from Igneel Natsu and did rather well. So he already had these feats with him. So , if he was knocked out in one hit from Flames of Savage Emotions , that means FoSE was just that strong. Because we've seen Zeref in action before , but we don't know the capability of FoSE. So it's logical to assume FoSE was ridiculously strong , and would oneshot anyone not named Acnologia.
The same goes for Invel , but I guess one example is enough.
So that's it. That's the criteria at least I use for power scaling , because imo this is the closest to perfection. So the reason I don't consider Acnologia feat as legit is , because Acnologia has already destroyed stronger opponents than Jellal before. He already has feats which prove him jobbing. So we've to consider his current feats to determine his AP. And sadly , it isn't all that impressive.
But anyway , that doesn't mean Jellal isn't stronger than the other Spriggans NOW. May be , since he's improved. But unless we're to discard the assumption that Laxus would've oneshotted Ajeel , he still wouldn't be Laxus level because Laxus also has similarly improved.
We'll get to see whether August was right or not if Laxus fights Jellal. If Laxus easily defeats Jellal , then we can assume August was right. But if he struggles against Jellal , then at least I am going to assume August was just being paranoid. Because since they've both improved , the relative PL's should be the same as Alvarez , since Jellal hasn't got any huge powerup. There's no way a guy who could've supposedly oneshot killed Ajeel struggles against someone who didn't kill Neinhart in one hit. Especially considering Ajeel's durability is better than Neinhart , since Ajeel actually tanked one of Base Natsu's punches. Well , and in response to your another question , what Natsu used against Zeref was Flames of Savage Emotions , and his guild mark was glowing at that time. What he used against Neinhart were normal punches , right ?
