Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Ronin31]

That's not tanking. Tanking is taking a hit and still being able to fight afterwards. The jupiter ko'ed her.

In my opinion, to tank is the first fonction of a shield. It has to block assault and protect even if it has to be broken. This is what Erza did with Jupiter's canon. She contained all of the charge and felt broken. She survived and tanked this Deadly assault, saving Guild's people. In the same way, she tanked the Amped Laxus as he can't continue to fight due to no magic, the same as Erza. She tanked or contained him to a withdraw.

Lol man yes.
Maybe there might be slight mistakes but overall yes.
For me, i see alot of people like laxus alot. Thus they also give him alot of benefit of doubts
This is exactly opposite for erza.

Whether people like it or not in pre ts
Erza was portrayed as >>>> natsu
And laxus showed he is above natsu by alot

There has never been comparison between laxus and erza. Erza laxus and jellal fights have always been interrupted. What do you want me to make of this

I mean think about it
Majority of fans rank laxus so high is because his performance against hades vs erza s
Forgetting that erz had already been involved in four conflicts before that and was blown twice by tenrou power

Not everyone use tye same thing as you. Some use only his hades performance, some use mystogan hax.
natsu was tiers below erza. Very silly comparison indeed. Have you have ever seen two natsu lvl opponent fight erza. Then why such comparison. Have you seen jellal handle two natsu level opponents, what about gildarts?

Yes, erza is the biggest wanker of natsu. In phantom arc she thought natsu surpassed her, and in ff arc she thought natsu could handle laxus. It doesnt mean much.

Laxus lasted like five seconds against hades, mostly because he was wailing on him. The moment hades fought, laxus fell.

May i ask how would you compare laxus speed to erza speed pre ts?

I clearly agree with your opinions and your objective analysis. Erza is in average laxus's tier since the beginning, more or less but Laxus can't compete when Erza rises up by PoF. Even Jose said that Erza underestimated herself when she compared Natsu to her. She OS Aria while she was barely standing on her feets while Aria was toying with Natsu, just before her fight vs Jose, who OS Gray and Elfman who were by far less injured than her.

Mistogan himself said to Laxus, that he is blind / arrogant, thinking that Erza is far weaker than them. Makarov was hoping that she had a chance to beat him as well during Fantasia.

Both Laxus and Erza are portrayed monsters since the beginning, far above Natsu and Gray's tier....

 

[Ramen]

In my opinion, to tank is the first fonction of a shield. It has to block assault and protect even if it has to be broken. This is what Erza did with Jupiter's canon. She contained all of the charge and felt broken. She survived and tanked this Deadly assault, saving Guild's people. In the same way, she tanked the Amped Laxus as he can't continue to fight due to no magic, the same as Erza. She tanked or contained him to a withdraw.

Again, that's not tanking. Since tanks in wars can take heavy damage and keep going, that's why people run behind them for cover.

The Jupiter ko'ed her because she was able to contain the attack and take all the damage herself. Containing is not the same as tanking.

Erza tanked Laxus attacks because she was able to keep fighting. Madmole is an example of someone tanking attacks.

 

[BadassLaxus]

I know this is old but in the Erza vs Laxus battle, I feel as Laxus should’ve still be conscious. Obviously they made him unconscious because he would be hard to beat and story plot. FT power levels are not scaled right

 

[JK Network]

I know this is old but in the Erza vs Laxus battle, I feel as Laxus should’ve still be conscious. Obviously they made him unconscious because he would be hard to beat and story plot. FT power levels are not scaled right

Idk Erza still gave him work so it wasn’t surprising to me

 

[GL_Nova]

What has Jellal that says he can solo Gajeel, Gray, Juvia, Lucy, and Mira?

Laxus himself couldn't do that.

Soloing OS, I thought I was perfectly clear on that. Up until this arc I genuinely believe either of them could wax the main squad except for Natsu. Let’s not forget that Jellal is a DF opponent.

 

[Ramen]

Soloing OS, I thought I was perfectly clear on that. Up until this arc I genuinely believe either of them could wax the main squad except for Natsu. Let’s not forget that Jellal is a DF opponent.

OS was washed by Tartaros. Jellal is not waxing Mira and Gajeel. Gajeel would give him a high diff by himself, Mira would easily come in and clean house.

 

[GL_Nova]

Not everyone use tye same thing as you. Some use only his hades performance, some use mystogan hax.
natsu was tiers below erza. Very silly comparison indeed. Have you have ever seen two natsu lvl opponent fight erza. Then why such comparison. Have you seen jellal handle two natsu level opponents, what about gildarts?

Yes, erza is the biggest wanker of natsu. In phantom arc she thought natsu surpassed her, and in ff arc she thought natsu could handle laxus. It doesnt mean much.

Laxus lasted like five seconds against hades, mostly because he was wailing on him. The moment hades fought, laxus fell.

May i ask how would you compare laxus speed to erza speed pre ts?

Dude, I know people don’t all scale the same, but a difference as big as that takes this from entertaining exercise to a likely round of futility. Your mentioning the Hades performance & Mystogan performance like they don’t set a precedent of Laxus being above them.

A tier? At what point? I mean there’s more evidence of a tier difference between her and Laxus (BoFT, Hades, Jura, Tartaros) then between her and Natsu. She’s been relying on ya boi the whole series. How many Natsu level opponents has Erza faced in the... Let me get back on course. I almost went off on a tangent. What evidence geninely supports the idea that Erza is superior or equal to Laxus. There is a direct correlation between Erza and Natsu’s strength. So it taking both Natsu & Gajeel to stand a chance back in BoFT, and besting Jura, who was stated to take her and Mira, supports that a gap exists for the first part of the series. A serious gap.

The moment Hades fought? I recall several attacks. Hades used a spell designed to steal movement, and Laxus still had power left to let Natsu wallop him, and tanked the actual death blow with literally no magic left. He also recovered fast enough to save Natsu and lead the counter attack. Had he chosen to stand up and retaliated, he would have won. This battle only makes him look more impressive.

Laxus out edges her across the board, speed is the one area where she’s just outclassed based on type advantage. Hence him having her on the back foot the whole fight, outside of a counter and a massive amp.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 3, 2020 ---

OS was washed by Tartaros. Jellal is not waxing Mira and Gajeel. Gajeel would give him a high diff by himself, Mira would easily come in and clean house.

What feat makes that argument for Gajeel? With DF he stands a chance, but outside of that what puts him level with Jellal before the Alvarez boost? An what satan soul is Mira using for this plan? We saw Jella vs Erza already. Prior to Alvarez if you really think Jellal & Laxus are even, what makes you think that? Even the characters themselves don’t think they can beat Laxus as a squad.

 

[Ronin31]

Waow, as you described Laxus, you put him on equal pedestal to Gildarts, perhaps above…. Laxus is strong, agree, like Erza and Mystogan on the first part, and far above Dragon Slayers tier (Natsu, Gajeel…).

You think, in the same period, Erza couldn't compete with Natsu and Gajeel the same way as Laxus ? Like Mystogan said, are you blind ? During first period Orascion Seis, Racer defeated all the coalition by himself and he had to team up with Cobra and his snake + Hoteye to neutralise her. Even Jellal was thinking that Zero could only be beaten by Erza, before thinking about Dragon Force Natsu.

You have to take account that Mira is modest and Erza was still in original power level, no Second Origin unlocked at this moment But nobody knew that at this moment and was thinking she was at her peak…. Jura was seen unbeatable but was defeated by Laxus, the same way as Roufus to Grey, only to put the power of feeling above calculation and prediction. Erza battled 100 demons of Pandemonium by herself who was judged impossible thing, then kagura, one of the strongest Game Wizards without unlocking Second Origin. Second Origin is not a little power up : see the 2 fight scènes with Natsu vs Max to compare. You think this feats are less than Laxus's defeating Raven Tail ?

In my opinion, even in pre ts, Erza is far stronger than you think, and I Don't speak about her PoF that put her to far another level….

I like Laxus very much, badass, powerful, balance, but I think, to see the Manga in global term, she has Always been portrayed at his level by Natsu and others. They are Natsu's targets to be the strongest.

 

[sharkai]

Laxus out edges her across the board, speed is the one area where she’s just outclassed based on type advantage. Hence him having her on the back foot the whole fight, outside of a counter and a massive amp.

this i want to talk about first
I am talking pre ts only
You and alot of fans would rank laxus speed above erza, on what you find impressive
I try to compare with some sort of relationship
Laxus vs hades not a good example because erza is wrecked. But lets just give benefit of doubt to laxus and put him equal to jellal speed (laxus has no feats like jellal meteor)
I can compare fine with jellal here
Heaven arc jellal blitzing natsu is somewhat around racer blitzing natsu
I know for a fact that racer cant blitz erza, even if she is not concentrating on him. Her souring armor speed puts her around racer speed
Not being too precise (we dont have much data) i can make an informed guess that
Pre ts
Jellal meteor = racer = erza souring armor
Saying one is faster than the other is fans creating things by themselves. Mishma has not clearified who is faster.
Erza souring armor has no good feats, well yes. But thats the way mishma makes erza fight. Nothing more.
Is there something wrong with what i said above
And please dont compare
Tartarus jellal to tartarus racer
That is like comparing
Alverzec natsu to alverzec erigor (you know how that will go)

Dude, I know people don’t all scale the same, but a difference as big as that takes this from entertaining exercise to a likely round of futility. Your mentioning the Hades performance & Mystogan performance like they don’t set a precedent of Laxus being above them.

A tier? At what point? I mean there’s more evidence of a tier difference between her and Laxus (BoFT, Hades, Jura, Tartaros) then between her and Natsu. She’s been relying on ya boi the whole series. How many Natsu level opponents has Erza faced in the... Let me get back on course. I almost went off on a tangent. What evidence geninely supports the idea that Erza is superior or equal to Laxus. There is a direct correlation between Erza and Natsu’s strength. So it taking both Natsu & Gajeel to stand a chance back in BoFT, and besting Jura, who was stated to take her and Mira, supports that a gap exists for the first part of the series. A serious gap.

The moment Hades fought? I recall several attacks. Hades used a spell designed to steal movement, and Laxus still had power left to let Natsu wallop him, and tanked the actual death blow with literally no magic left. He also recovered fast enough to save Natsu and lead the counter attack. Had he chosen to stand up and retaliated, he would have won. This battle only makes him look more impressive.

Because it doesn't
In ff arc, Laxus was over estimating the hell out himself. There is also no proof he didnt fall asleep by mystogan
Mystogan and markarov were putting erza on a whole different level compared to laxus. And sadly they were not biased.


Using hades performance is synonymous to using laxus vs natsu fight to say
Natsu > laxus

Good comparison would be when everyone is hundred percent or the one you wish to claim being stronger is not hundred percent and the other one is

Good example would be
Laxus after kiria fight vs hundred percent erza
(Of course laxus being actually a good guy and friend not being included here)

No
Because there is actually portrayal of natsu shitting himself when erza walks towards him. There is actually portrayal of erza treating natsu like gildarts and laxus did (one shotting him in one fights)
There are actual fights where natsu fell far too short from erza
Natsu vs blinded aria (compared to wrecked erza vs full powered aria)
Or
OS first appearance where racer was enough to put down natsu, gray and some other fodders (gray was hit by angel as well)
While cobra, racer and hoteye in a sneak attack had to put erza down

The above are actual feats, with actual comparisons. With no guesses from me like you people make in for example boft (you dont actually know erza wouldnt have done better than laxus, you are guessing)

So your evidence

Laxus vs natsu plus gajeel (how do you know erza cant do this)

Hades performance (horrifying example, erza had already decided give up before even facing hades)

Jura (good example. But erza took out tye next two strongest mages, difference between gmg laxus and gmg erza shouldnt be that much)

Tempester (bad example, erza fought someone much stronger, with power of another demon gate, was literally getting stronger as she fought. And erza was already tortured before that)

In all these only jura example is good one. Rest dont show anything

I think you base alot of things on the anime. Manga doesnt say much about that 25 formula.

What evidence do i have. I have some
But you have to understand, i dont make comparison like laxus vs tempester compared to tortured erza vs demon Minerva then koyoka with saliha powers and enhancement curse on top that

Mine are simple. With little guesses on my part
Pre ts
Laxus >> natsu (fight)
Erza >> natsu (portrayal wise plus feats) (aria, os arrival, pantherlily)
Remember portrayal is more important than flashy things (august hits harder but wahl punches can throw laxus far away)


Markarov statement that erza can take laxus (boft)
Laxus >=<erza
Jellal statement that who would win (heaven arc)
Jellal>=<erza
Jellal statement about zero (OS)
Zero >=< erza (though i believe zero>erza)
Start of series erza was said to be WS tier
Jellal >= Erza = jura
(Tenrou erza took out WS tier monster S class Monster plus 99 other monsters) gmg erza with out SO was around 8 or 7 WS tier. ( os jura was around 10 WS)
All people got same boost in the first time skip
Three months training (laxus) = SO (erza)= 7 years of hard training (jura) =7 year experience plus SO (jellal)
Pre ts
Jellal=laxus=jura=erza
Gmg
Jellal=laxus=jura=erza

Even till this day, erza was suprised that laxus performed at her level
So manga world, atleat in pre ts no one thought laxus was above erza, this is against sharp contrast of erza and natsu difference.
In gmg arc gray made a comment that laxus doesnt need to train. But that was followed by gray thinking erza already had second origin.

 

[GL_Nova]

Waow, as you described Laxus, you put him on equal pedestal to Gildarts, perhaps above…. Laxus is strong, agree, like Erza and Mystogan on the first part, and far above Dragon Slayers tier (Natsu, Gajeel…).

You think, in the same period, Erza couldn't compete with Natsu and Gajeel the same way as Laxus ? Like Mystogan said, are you blind ? During first period Orascion Seis, Racer defeated all the coalition by himself and he had to team up with Cobra and his snake + Hoteye to neutralise her. Even Jellal was thinking that Zero could only be beaten by Erza, before thinking about Dragon Force Natsu.

You have to take account that Mira is modest and Erza was still in original power level, no Second Origin unlocked at this moment But nobody knew that at this moment and was thinking she was at her peak…. Jura was seen unbeatable but was defeated by Laxus, the same way as Roufus to Grey, only to put the power of feeling above calculation and prediction. Erza battled 100 demons of Pandemonium by herself who was judged impossible thing, then kagura, one of the strongest Game Wizards without unlocking Second Origin. Second Origin is not a little power up : see the 2 fight scènes with Natsu vs Max to compare. You think this feats are less than Laxus's defeating Raven Tail ?

In my opinion, even in pre ts, Erza is far stronger than you think, and I Don't speak about her PoF that put her to far another level….

I like Laxus very much, badass, powerful, balance, but I think, to see the Manga in global term, she has Always been portrayed at his level by Natsu and others. They are Natsu's targets to be the strongest.

I’ve yet to place Laxus above Gildarts. I continually put him on his tier because the series does. Irregardless of your feelings about my opinion, Hades compares them, Jura is directly compared to him (we know how that went), an we know that Mashima has compared them when speaking to folks who work closer to FT than any of us. He clearly spends the entire series stronger than them. You are correct about Erza feeling she was comparable, but she’s also shocked at how strong he really is every time she see’s him fight, so clearly underestimated him.

Hell No. An nothing in the series suggests she could. I find it odd that you’re asking, since even Erza has considered Natsu right on her heels. An he still needed Gajeel to get molly whopped. An the fact that Jellal thought only Erza stood a chance in a situation where Jura is a player, is ridiculous.

Literally at no point before Alvarez would I think that, and now it’s too late because he’s irrelevant power wise. That being said. Let’s first look at the false narrative of Mira’s modesty. While it has effected her transformations, at what point is the precedent set that Mira can’t gauge how well she’ll stack up to a situation. That’s a stretch. On top of that, Erza was able to don the Nakagami armor & make the last move. What suggests she could have bested Jura? Not the monsters he would have waded through as well. Kaguya is again, comparable to What suggests Mira, and Makarov, were wrong?

Everyone has one, and the differences are what make this place interesting. That being said, Iknow Erza is strong. I also believe the Author & source material. He’s quite clear and consistent with his power levels. Natsu & Crew were chasing Erza, and Erza has been chasing Laxus, while he chases Gildarts in turn. I think Alvarez proved that Natsu & Erza have solidly stepped up onto that Gildarts tier as well. An to clarify, you can be on the same tier as someone, and be weaker. I would put Gildarts solidly at the top of the tier, Laxus in the middle, and Erza & Natsu between him and the bottom. Gajeel & Grey need boosts to push them further.

 

[mwarren100]

Lucy deserves better

 

[Orion]

Lucy deserves better

Legit question, has a single one of your posts not involved Lucy?

 

[Ramen]

Laxus has always been above Erza. Period. Erza thought Natsu was relatively equal to her during phantom Lord, maybe even stronger and Laxus solo'd him and Gajeel with no effort.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 3, 2020 ---

At no point pre-Alvarez was Erza ever equal to Laxus. The monsters of the Guild have always been him and Gildarts and this is still somewhat true present.

 

[Jko]

Erza has never once gotten stronger in the series until Second Origin and literally fought Kagura/Minerva as her BoS self while Tenrou Natsu was losing to Max. I think it's quiet safe to say that Erza was basing that statement on Natsu's potential more so than his actual power at the time. It's no question that Erza by feats and portrayal was much stronger than Natsu.

Erza = Laxus in Tenrou tbh. "How strong is he?" was to reference to how surpised she was of his strength back in Tenrou which mean she believed herself to be on the same level or stronger than Laxus since then. Erza has been at the very least close to Laxus tier the whole manga.

What’s one feat any of the people in his original list have to compare them to Jellal.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 2, 2020 ---

Again, I’m hearing headcannon instead of facts. Raven Tail had bested them each time. Maybe Lucy wins that fight, maybe not, she and Flare were shown to be equals. An Gray was trying, he just didn’t match up well against his opponent. Which fits Ivan’s claim that he put the team together to beat FT. They were another team in the GMG comparable to Team A. An didn’t lose until Laxus took them out

You continue to claim this in direct opposition of the manga. Back it up. You continue to ignore Makarov comparing Gildarts, who he literally just saw 3 months ago, to Jura and apparently made some kind of mistake sensing his power. Even though he has better magic senses than the main cast up through the Alvarez arc. Other than the fact your downplay argument relies on ignoring stated facts, do you have anything to offer that he wasn’t as strong as stated when the claims where made? Since we know there is massive growth for the guild members before we see him again.

Manhandling? It was still a battle, and he had no issue stepping up afterwards, no lasting injuries major power loss or any other sign of this manhandling. Where did I miss it? Do you mean the 1 blitz he got in after transforming? An where are you basing the idea that Erza or Natsu could easily best that team? What gave you that idea?

This is another claim that doesn’t make sense. They literally have to struggle to beat them when they encounter them. OS has been made to grow to remain relevant the entire series. Something we see in Alvarez as well. So again, where is this downplay coming from? An yes, he struggled because their impressive as a squad. He got the job done though didn’t he.

Also, what puts Gray over Jellal? What feat, let alone feats.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2020 ---

No, most of us rate him so high because he was introduced ragdolling 2 Natsu lvl opponents. Whereas Erza spends the whole series certain she’ll be soon surpassed by him. Coming in and putting Hades down after he slapt FT A, just brought that power comparison home.

How is it headcanon when the proof is in the feats? Flare didn't best Lucy and that was shown when her best attacks only burned Lucy's boots lol. Lucy clearly was going to wreck her had Obra not stepped in. The same Lucy from the GMG was capable of fighting back 3 9Ds for a short period of time and you think Flare was actually in her league??? Gray is self explanatory. He beat Rufus who is far stronger than Needle boy and Rufus is the one who stomped that game too. Gray is far stronger than Needle boy and that proven on the final day of the GMG when he took out opponents far stronger than Needle boy. You are trying to base Gray's strength off a game and not an actual battle lol. Also Raven Tail did not step up on Natsu or Erza once for a reason. Any of their members would have gotten stomped. Erza's or Natsu's feats >>>> Raven Tail's feats.

You mean the same Gildarts that oneshotted a mountain??? Yeah, Jura was not competing with that when his attacks were beat out by Cana's FG in the MPF. The same attack that Bluenote no diffed on Tenrou. By feats Gildarts would have smoked the entire GMG by himself. He was far too powerful which is why he wasn't allowed to fight until Alvarez. This also the same Makarov who couldn't follow Tenrou Erza's movements yet had no trouble keeping up with Laxus' and Jura's fight. So Tenrou Erza is far faster than x791 Laxus? Lol. Feats proved that Makarov's claims were false.

Yes, it was a complete manhandle. Natsu was beating him down so much that Tempester couldn't even throwback an attack. He then starts fighting with Gajeel in the middle of his fight with Tempester. This again after Natsu went through his fight with Franmelth prior. Their feats >>>>>>>>> OS feats. Any single Tartarus member could have trashed those four OS members. Kyouka with a finger flick stomped Rustyrose who is stronger than any OS member in that fight.

OS hadn't kept up with times. They were in jail so their powers were stagnant. That means each of their individual powers < Tenrou Natsu < Max. So they aren't an impressive squad at all. Natsu would oneshot any single one of those guys like he did Max. And they weren't even relevant in Alvarez either. They were just shown to get stomped on and helped in none of the fights. We also see that their training was garbage as Meredy was still weaker than Zancrow after an entire 8 years of training . If they were actually relevant than they would have been utilized, but they weren't. Even in the 100YQ they are nowhere to be seen lol.

Because he has shown time and time again to be able to contend with Base Natsu and his Alvarez feats smoke Jellal's lol. Also Base Natsu's feats blows Jellal's feats out the water. Gray was also able to go against a God Seed after getting out of a high diff with Mira. Also was able to solo a bunch of mid tiers (Rajinshuu) with stats alone.

 

[Ronin31]

You are correct about Erza feeling she was comparable, but she’s also shocked at how strong he really is every time she see’s him fight, so clearly underestimated him.

"How strong is he?" was to reference to how surpised she was of his strength back in Tenrou which mean she believed herself to be on the same level or stronger than Laxus since then. Erza has been at the very least close to Laxus tier the whole manga.

Jko give you the answer. To be surprise of a strength don't put the strength above yours. Only to show that you didn't expect that character to have reach that level. I practice martial art and leaved my master for years. When I came back to see him, he was surprised to my new experience but was still above. He only didn't expect my new level because we knew (him and me) that he was far above in techniques and experience. I only reduced the gap.

So Erza amazed to his power only shows that she didn't expect he was that strong. She didn't put him above her. The same way in their last fight : She didn't expected that Laxus grew up so much strong in every stats, to only match her own strength. So she was thinking she will had the age against the Laxus she knew. In that way, perhaps Erza was expecting that Laxus was below her during Arbaless and could contained him without going all out. Mistake, I agree... This fight showed that Laxus grew up (by far with Erza's Statement) to reach her level. They have Always been portrayed close gap in the Serie.

In the entire manga and portrayal, I think she has more impressive feats.... I am not saying that she is stronger than him. Their power take evolution during time line : one is above, time after the other can be above...etc.... But in portrayal, Yes, Erza is on par with Laxus, alongside the Manga, even without PoF.

Also think that C > A > B can be B > C. It is about magic effect. Laxus could managed Ajeel easier than Erza because of his Aura power who could destroy and protect him to Sand World. Erza could managed Walh easier than Laxus because her powers are not only based on the lightning and could also managed to take on August better than Gildarts because that incredible wizard can't replicate magic without tools, so Erza's weaponeries (I am not saiying she is above August, only talking about magic capacity).

But I don't put Erza stronger than Gildarts as well. I hope you understand.

Laxus and Erza are two monsters. During their last fight, Erza was expecting that she could neutralize him without doing fatal blow (she can't against friend so she had to barely holding back). Laxus said that if he has to win against a serious Erza, he has to use all the strength of his new powers. So one is confident and didn't expect that growing up (Erza) and one is sure to be not as strong to compete in his lighting base magic (Laxus). If Laxus is confident, why didn't he destroyed her the same way as Kyria ?

In that way, the two statements means that Erza > Laxus classic lightning, and we see that Laxus red Lightning = Erza Blumenblatt.

They are evenly.... For now, for me Erza = Laxus under circonstances : no PoF where Erza is nearly unstoppable.

 

[sharkai]

Laxus has always been above Erza. Period. Erza thought Natsu was relatively equal to her during phantom Lord, maybe even stronger and Laxus solo'd him and Gajeel with no effort.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 3, 2020 ---

At no point pre-Alvarez was Erza ever equal to Laxus. The monsters of the Guild have always been him and Gildarts and this is still somewhat true present.

Nice but you actually need proof for that man

Yes erza thought natsu was on her heels in phantom arc, but that same erza also thought this natsu can handle laxus in ff arc.

Now this current erza is shocked that current laxus can barely beat her (there is not even and editorial note, about how erza can possibly over come laxus)
Fans opinion and manga seems to be going in complete opposite on this topic

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2020 ---

I’ve yet to place Laxus above Gildarts. I continually put him on his tier because the series does. Irregardless of your feelings about my opinion, Hades compares them, Jura is directly compared to him (we know how that went), an we know that Mashima has compared them when speaking to folks who work closer to FT than any of us. He clearly spends the entire series stronger than them. You are correct about Erza feeling she was comparable, but she’s also shocked at how strong he really is every time she see’s him fight, so clearly underestimated him.

Hell No. An nothing in the series suggests she could. I find it odd that you’re asking, since even Erza has considered Natsu right on her heels. An he still needed Gajeel to get molly whopped. An the fact that Jellal thought only Erza stood a chance in a situation where Jura is a player, is ridiculous.

Literally at no point before Alvarez would I think that, and now it’s too late because he’s irrelevant power wise. That being said. Let’s first look at the false narrative of Mira’s modesty. While it has effected her transformations, at what point is the precedent set that Mira can’t gauge how well she’ll stack up to a situation. That’s a stretch. On top of that, Erza was able to don the Nakagami armor & make the last move. What suggests she could have bested Jura? Not the monsters he would have waded through as well. Kaguya is again, comparable to What suggests Mira, and Makarov, were wrong?

Everyone has one, and the differences are what make this place interesting. That being said, Iknow Erza is strong. I also believe the Author & source material. He’s quite clear and consistent with his power levels. Natsu & Crew were chasing Erza, and Erza has been chasing Laxus, while he chases Gildarts in turn. I think Alvarez proved that Natsu & Erza have solidly stepped up onto that Gildarts tier as well. An to clarify, you can be on the same tier as someone, and be weaker. I would put Gildarts solidly at the top of the tier, Laxus in the middle, and Erza & Natsu between him and the bottom. Gajeel & Grey need boosts to push them further.

Sorry just wanted add that, this is not in the manga
Hades never compared laxus with anyone
Chasing statement is wrong
Natsu sh!ts himself when erza looks at him
Erza glares at laxus right back when he looks at her
If there is a gap
It would be like
Laxus > erza >>> natsu
With not much supporting laxus > erza part

 

[Ronin31]

Now this current erza is shocked that current laxus can barely beat her

Yes she is… So she expected to take him down (hardly because she is aware that Laxus is very strong) and Laxus has grown stronger to make her perplexe, enough to be >=
As she is amazed and shocked about his power up since a year, she was thinking she was = or > to him before seeing the Red Lightning mode, his new strength and up stamina.

The gap is very short between them, in every time line I think. But for me, Erza has more impressive feats than him.

I know people was thinking that Laxus will trash her effortlessly before the fight (I read it), but the result put her at his tier. Without Gildarts (who is never in the Guild), they are the 2 aces monsters and are portrayal as well.

Laxus > erza >>> natsu

In my opinion :
Erza (PoF) >>>Laxus >= Erza (pre ts / current)

 

[GL_Nova]

this i want to talk about first
I am talking pre ts only
You and alot of fans would rank laxus speed above erza, on what you find impressive
I try to compare with some sort of relationship
Laxus vs hades not a good example because erza is wrecked. But lets just give benefit of doubt to laxus and put him equal to jellal speed (laxus has no feats like jellal meteor)
I can compare fine with jellal here
Heaven arc jellal blitzing natsu is somewhat around racer blitzing natsu
I know for a fact that racer cant blitz erza, even if she is not concentrating on him. Her souring armor speed puts her around racer speed
Not being too precise (we dont have much data) i can make an informed guess that
Pre ts
Jellal meteor = racer = erza souring armor
Saying one is faster than the other is fans creating things by themselves. Mishma has not clearified who is faster.
Erza souring armor has no good feats, well yes. But thats the way mishma makes erza fight. Nothing more.
Is there something wrong with what i said above
And please dont compare
Tartarus jellal to tartarus racer
That is like comparing
Alverzec natsu to alverzec erigor (you know how that will go)



Because it doesn't
In ff arc, Laxus was over estimating the hell out himself. There is also no proof he didnt fall asleep by mystogan
Mystogan and markarov were putting erza on a whole different level compared to laxus. And sadly they were not biased.


Using hades performance is synonymous to using laxus vs natsu fight to say
Natsu > laxus

Good comparison would be when everyone is hundred percent or the one you wish to claim being stronger is not hundred percent and the other one is

Good example would be
Laxus after kiria fight vs hundred percent erza
(Of course laxus being actually a good guy and friend not being included here)

No
Because there is actually portrayal of natsu shitting himself when erza walks towards him. There is actually portrayal of erza treating natsu like gildarts and laxus did (one shotting him in one fights)
There are actual fights where natsu fell far too short from erza
Natsu vs blinded aria (compared to wrecked erza vs full powered aria)
Or
OS first appearance where racer was enough to put down natsu, gray and some other fodders (gray was hit by angel as well)
While cobra, racer and hoteye in a sneak attack had to put erza down

The above are actual feats, with actual comparisons. With no guesses from me like you people make in for example boft (you dont actually know erza wouldnt have done better than laxus, you are guessing)

So your evidence

Laxus vs natsu plus gajeel (how do you know erza cant do this)

Hades performance (horrifying example, erza had already decided give up before even facing hades)

Jura (good example. But erza took out tye next two strongest mages, difference between gmg laxus and gmg erza shouldnt be that much)

Tempester (bad example, erza fought someone much stronger, with power of another demon gate, was literally getting stronger as she fought. And erza was already tortured before that)

In all these only jura example is good one. Rest dont show anything

I think you base alot of things on the anime. Manga doesnt say much about that 25 formula.

What evidence do i have. I have some
But you have to understand, i dont make comparison like laxus vs tempester compared to tortured erza vs demon Minerva then koyoka with saliha powers and enhancement curse on top that

Mine are simple. With little guesses on my part
Pre ts
Laxus >> natsu (fight)
Erza >> natsu (portrayal wise plus feats) (aria, os arrival, pantherlily)
Remember portrayal is more important than flashy things (august hits harder but wahl punches can throw laxus far away)


Markarov statement that erza can take laxus (boft)
Laxus >=<erza
Jellal statement that who would win (heaven arc)
Jellal>=<erza
Jellal statement about zero (OS)
Zero >=< erza (though i believe zero>erza)
Start of series erza was said to be WS tier
Jellal >= Erza = jura
(Tenrou erza took out WS tier monster S class Monster plus 99 other monsters) gmg erza with out SO was around 8 or 7 WS tier. ( os jura was around 10 WS)
All people got same boost in the first time skip
Three months training (laxus) = SO (erza)= 7 years of hard training (jura) =7 year experience plus SO (jellal)
Pre ts
Jellal=laxus=jura=erza
Gmg
Jellal=laxus=jura=erza

Even till this day, erza was suprised that laxus performed at her level
So manga world, atleat in pre ts no one thought laxus was above erza, this is against sharp contrast of erza and natsu difference.
In gmg arc gray made a comment that laxus doesnt need to train. But that was followed by gray thinking erza already had second origin.

You say please don’t compare...but you’re entire counter argument is an analysis in comparisons. Now, the only direct comparison other than their fight is the Hades battle, and again your argument relies on minimizing or ignoring it outright. All of Erza’s best feats are from battles that take place after a gauntlet of battles. This is no different. An we know they had recovered enough magic to expect to win. Now, we don’t need to give Laxus anything. We can directly compare how Laxus performed vs how the team of them performed. He did more damage and Hades displayed more power against Laxus than he had the entire fight so far. An it sets a precedent as this is the first time Erza see’s him fight and we have her admitting she didnt think he was this strong. There is absolutely no reason to ignore this other than that it continues the narrative that Laxus is above them. An sets up Laxus as an ace in the wing. A position he essentially fills for the rest of the manga until Gildarts is brought back into the fray.

Laxus has no feats like Meteor? He blitzed Acno, and is consistently shown as one of the faster characters in FT. Though for the record, I consistently give Jellal the nod speed wise over Laxus. It’s what makes it a good fight, Jellal is a faster & more versatile Wizard. As a for the rest, you really did all that work to break down how you think Racer & Jellal are comparable, but want to ignore the time they actually go at it? If we ignore the fact that Jellal literally embarassed Sawyer when they fought. How does Erza beating him in her speed armor help the argument that she’s anywhere close to Jellal? Jellal didn’t need Meteor to beat Erza. this line of deduction is false.

Huh? No proof, he knew his face and deepest secret. How would he know that if he was sleep? An we know it’s a direct power issue. Like a direct correlation. Exactly like him being a Jellal clone and his opinion of Erza being exceptionally high. An Makarov hoping she could do it, isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement. That sounds like, I hope she POF’s and pulls the win. Which isn’t an unreasonable hole by any means. People keep confusing Laxus is strong with Erza is weak. She’s a monster, she’s just the smaller monster.

It’s nothing like that. Nice try to obscure the point by pairing it with a ridiculous argument though.

I agree, those are great examples. An even with all her growth, Erza came up short. She lost, but found a new sense of peace for the future of her guild. I have no reason not to believe her. We’ve honestly debated that battle to death, but I’m always down for more.

Natsu has been the genuine heavy in their group since Tenrou. An has been portrayed as closing on her for a minute, but I already stated that they spent the series chasing her. How does this help your argument about being stronger than Laxus though?

Hanging out with the proof that she can also beat them so one-sidedly.

You must be joking, now it’s that she gave up? Hold this L bro. He outperformed her because he was supposed too. It’s his place in the story. His big return moment. Those are better excuses than she gave up.

They had a 3 way battle, then she gauntleted them. Solidly impressive, but not as good as beating a Gildarts tier opponent.

Great example. Laxus literally 1 shot the demon with the best vitality. An then was still shown capable of killing him in his best form, while literally dying from poison. After he shows himself equal to LFDM Natsu.

I think their all great examples hence the minor nitpicks painted as counter arguments. An yes, I follow all of it. I include the cannon side stories in my analysis too, because it’s all designed to be used that way. I see Mashima adding scenes that he meant to have in the manga as an absolute win.

I was following your logic, but your examples work well at establishing she’s stronger than Natsu. They don’t support the idea she’s stronger than Laxus. There are more statements comparing Laxus to Gildarts than to Erza. Your only salient point is Makarov saying she might be able to win. The rest is your headcannon. Nothing supports your arbitrary WS numbers. An nothing suggests she’s comparable to Jura, Laxus, & Jellal this arc. The only direct comparison outright stated she’s significantly weaker. An nothing suggests SO closes that gap.

Erza has never once gotten stronger in the series until Second Origin and literally fought Kagura/Minerva as her BoS self while Tenrou Natsu was losing to Max. I think it's quiet safe to say that Erza was basing that statement on Natsu's potential more so than his actual power at the time. It's no question that Erza by feats and portrayal was much stronger than Natsu.

Erza = Laxus in Tenrou tbh. "How strong is he?" was to reference to how surpised she was of his strength back in Tenrou which mean she believed herself to be on the same level or stronger than Laxus since then. Erza has been at the very least close to Laxus tier the whole manga.

How is it headcanon when the proof is in the feats? Flare didn't best Lucy and that was shown when her best attacks only burned Lucy's boots lol. Lucy clearly was going to wreck her had Obra not stepped in. The same Lucy from the GMG was capable of fighting back 3 9Ds for a short period of time and you think Flare was actually in her league??? Gray is self explanatory. He beat Rufus who is far stronger than Needle boy and Rufus is the one who stomped that game too. Gray is far stronger than Needle boy and that proven on the final day of the GMG when he took out opponents far stronger than Needle boy. You are trying to base Gray's strength off a game and not an actual battle lol. Also Raven Tail did not step up on Natsu or Erza once for a reason. Any of their members would have gotten stomped. Erza's or Natsu's feats >>>> Raven Tail's feats.

You mean the same Gildarts that oneshotted a mountain??? Yeah, Jura was not competing with that when his attacks were beat out by Cana's FG in the MPF. The same attack that Bluenote no diffed on Tenrou. By feats Gildarts would have smoked the entire GMG by himself. He was far too powerful which is why he wasn't allowed to fight until Alvarez. This also the same Makarov who couldn't follow Tenrou Erza's movements yet had no trouble keeping up with Laxus' and Jura's fight. So Tenrou Erza is far faster than x791 Laxus? Lol. Feats proved that Makarov's claims were false.

Yes, it was a complete manhandle. Natsu was beating him down so much that Tempester couldn't even throwback an attack. He then starts fighting with Gajeel in the middle of his fight with Tempester. This again after Natsu went through his fight with Franmelth prior. Their feats >>>>>>>>> OS feats. Any single Tartarus member could have trashed those four OS members. Kyouka with a finger flick stomped Rustyrose who is stronger than any OS member in that fight.

OS hadn't kept up with times. They were in jail so their powers were stagnant. That means each of their individual powers < Tenrou Natsu < Max. So they aren't an impressive squad at all. Natsu would oneshot any single one of those guys like he did Max. And they weren't even relevant in Alvarez either. They were just shown to get stomped on and helped in none of the fights. We also see that their training was garbage as Meredy was still weaker than Zancrow after an entire 8 years of training . If they were actually relevant than they would have been utilized, but they weren't. Even in the 100YQ they are nowhere to be seen lol.

Because he has shown time and time again to be able to contend with Base Natsu and his Alvarez feats smoke Jellal's lol. Also Base Natsu's feats blows Jellal's feats out the water. Gray was also able to go against a God Seed after getting out of a high diff with Mira. Also was able to solo a bunch of mid tiers (Rajinshuu) with stats alone.

I keep starting to debate you, but if you genuinely feel Erza has no growth power wise until SO...doesn’t really make sense to get into it with you about the entire series. Where did you come down on the recent battle again?

 

[Ronin31]

We are not thinking that Erza is stronger than Laxus. We are only stating that she is on par. Like it has been shown at their last encounter.

As for Tartaros, agree that Laxus crushed Tempester in Etherious form clearly with low to no diff. That demonstration puts him far above Natsu, who rivaled Tempester only in his human form and then with Lightning fire, managed to take average before disput with Gajeel.
But this same Tempester was one shotted by Gray. So, do you put Gray stronger than Laxus ?
As to compare, Erza was tortured, fought an Amped Minerva who is originally a quite strong wizard, then fought Kyoka to a withdraw. To finish, Kyoka took Seilha's power who is clearly massive (>>Mirajane Sitry), and while her curse made her stronger by second, while she was reducing her durability the same way. You can't compare Kyoka to Tempester. And she was fighting this monster after other fights and Torture, while Laxus was fresh and 100%.

During Tenrô, this is the same way if you want to compare. Erza fought Meldy for a time, then Azuma who is clearly a monster who took all magic power into Tenro Tree and used it two times to strike her. Thing that this strike combine Tenro Island + Gildarts, Natsu, Gajeel and others magic reserves. Gray fought Ultear and was crazy injured. Ok, they restored some of Magic, enough to fight, but they were wrecked as Erza and Gray hardly stayed on their feets just before. And you are saying they were fresh and 100% ? It is the same way as saying that Erza was fresh and 100% vs Jose. So Jupiter's strike didn't count… Laxus was fresh and 100%, managed to give some strike but when Hades had enough to play, destroyed him low diff.
Again, saying "how have you become stronger" don't put him above, only saying that she didn't expected to grow up like that.

If you want another feats, we can call about Arbaless. When did Laxus blitz Acnologia ? Acnologia was toying at them. His arrogance defeated him.
Laxus battled and won against Whal and cure him, then battled Historia Hades for the win. This are Laxus's only battle. Strong opponents, I agree, but enough for his endurance. Erza battled Ajeel and was tricked by Marin, then battled the three past strongest opponents Historia (Hades is stronger but fighting three targets is perhaps more difficult), then destroyed Historias with her determination that put her Magic Aura far above to the point to make Neinhart crying and thinking she is relative to Irene, the strongest wizard. With battle injuries, she kept going, battle and help Makarov team on the battle field and fought Berserkers. Just after, she stopped END and Gray with her bare hands (they were unleashed and at peak of their PoF). Finally, fought Irene, had broken bones body and managed to destroy a meteor and slashed through Irene's scales.

You said that Laxus feats pre ts is way stronger than Erza because he ragdolled Natsu and Gajeel ? Well, great feat for Laxus, agree.
Erza took 200 Lightning strike when she destroyed orbs, and Laxus was thiniking it is impossible feat. Think that Erza didn't have Lightning Empress armour and after, continue to talk to preserve her friends….

During Orascion Seis, just after, 3 members have to team up to take her down : Racer, Cobra and Hoteye. Think that Racer, by himself, soloed the entire coalition (Natsu, Gray and others). His only feat put him on Laxus's par vs Natsu and Gajeel. To win against Racer, Lyon and Gray were bypassed and won only by strategy, Lyon understanding Racer's Magic. Also, Cobra was far above Natsu this time. Natsu only won by luck. Hoteye rivaled Jura's magic.
So saying that Erza didn't fought foe the same level as Gajeel + Natsu is irrevelant.
Think, in this arc, that she has won against Midnight who were the far strongest of the OS below Zero. Midnight destroyed Hoteye and Jellal like puppets.
Jellal reconized himself Erza's true strength and thought she was the only person who can fight Zero.

During GmG, Laxus feats are stong : destroyed a wizard team and Jura. Erza completed Pandemonium without using SO, battled Kagura and Minerva, the two strongest wizards after Jura.

For me, Laxus and Erza are in the same tier. By feats, Erza is more impressive and stronger while using PoF.

 

[Brandish μ]

Laxus and Erza are on the same level.

Arguably they have been on the same level since Erza achieved SO, but Laxus was still stronger, and probably a tier above depending on how you slice it. Before that, Erza was a tier below Laxus for sure, there was a clear gap in power.