Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

Which side are you on?

  • Team Spriggan 12

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  • Team Diabolos/Dragon Eaters

    Votes: 45 48.4%

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Seven777

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Why would being the power of the dead have any relevance to how impressive he finds Igneel's power to be? There's no shortage of characters who can use the power of the dead. It's not at all rare. Some of the demons he created even have the power of the dead, and they still can't kill him.

Zeref looked fine to me. Base Natsu was losing against Zeref.

He had POF driving him when he thought Lucy was dead, but the seeds were still going to eventually fuse and kill him. There would have been a point where the boost from his emotions wouldn't be able to sustain him. He'd have to kill Zeref before that happens. If you don't believe END's transformation would progressively get stronger, then I struggle to see how he would have beaten Zeref. For all we know, he would have never gotten past Gray.

There can be characters stronger than Acno and Igneel. Again, if END was at all part of Zeref's plan, then we would have seen Zeref make moves to awaken it. He didn't. And infact, he wished for the opposite.
Because it can kill him? All that being the same "power of the dead" as Igneel is up in the air.

He was slouched over, panting in exhaustion, considerably worse off than he was against IgNatsu before FDK. Base Natsu was losing, but by that point it was already a high diff fight for Zeref.

No there wouldn't? If that were the case END would have been getting progressively weaker throughout the fight. And even if there was a point where the seeds would eventually kill him, for all we know Natsu could be in a coma for weeks before they finish, which means END would be up and about for all that time. And all that's if we go with your theory that it was only Natsu's emotions that were keeping him out of a coma, rather than his transformation into END, which I don't at all buy.
Simple, I consider Zeref that weak that END doesn't need to go beyond what he was. His performance against Base Natsu, even with the edge he had, isn't something beyond what several characters can accomplish imo, and without his immortality keeping him up, he isn't going to survive.

Could be, but if characters sooo much stronger than Zeref, like Igneel and Acno, can't do it, there's no reason to think they could either, if they even exist, which they almost certainly don't. Zeref's plan only makes sense if you take into consideration Natsu is END, there is literally no other reason to choose him as Zeref's killer.
I already told you, you don't know that Zeref hasn't tried to awaken END, and I provided you a pretty damn good example of what could be an attempt.
 

Axiomus

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Because it can kill him? All that being the same "power of the dead" as Igneel is up in the air.

He was slouched over, panting in exhaustion, considerably worse off than he was against IgNatsu before FDK. Base Natsu was losing, but by that point it was already a high diff fight for Zeref.

No there wouldn't? If that were the case END would have been getting progressively weaker throughout the fight. And even if there was a point where the seeds would eventually kill him, for all we know Natsu could be in a coma for weeks before they finish, which means END would be up and about for all that time. And all that's if we go with your theory that it was only Natsu's emotions that were keeping him out of a coma, rather than his transformation into END, which I don't at all buy.

Simple, I consider Zeref that weak that END doesn't need to go beyond what he was. His performance against Base Natsu, even with the edge he had, isn't something beyond what several characters can accomplish imo, and without his immortality keeping him up, he isn't going to survive.

Could be, but if characters sooo much stronger than Zeref, like Igneel and Acno, can't do it, there's no reason to think they could either, if they even exist, which they almost certainly don't. Zeref's plan only makes sense if you take into consideration Natsu is END, there is literally no other reason to choose him as Zeref's killer.
I already told you, you don't know that Zeref hasn't tried to awaken END, and I provided you a pretty damn good example of what could be an attempt.
Power of the dead is just magic that belonged to a dead person. Lots of characters have it. Besides, Zeref took note of how strong Igneel's flames were when Natsu first took off his bandages. It's clearly superior to regular FDK.

Zeref lost his composure due to the curse. He was pretty much fine after that, when he blasted Natsu. Even when Natsu entered DF, he looked perfectly fine.

His condition would have gotten progressively worse, yes. There would have been a point where the rage he felt over Lucy's death wouldn't be able to keep up with his declining health. We simply didn't see that in his fight with Gray because the POF still outweighed the cancer, so to speak. I doubt Natsu would have had weeks. He went cold and his heart stopped beating by the time they arrived at Porlyusica.

Natsu's negative emotions are literally the source of END's power. When you take away those negative emotions, the transformation simply dissipates. If Natsu found out that Lucy was okay after he beat up Dimaria, he would have just collapsed right back into a coma. What do you mean that it's END's transformation and not Natsu's emotions that's keeping him out of the coma? The transformation is fueled by his emotions.

We do know that Zeref hadn't attempt to reawaken END for his suicide plan....Because he literally told us his entire plan, and literally not once did he mention using END. What example? Killing Gray right before the final fight? Well okay, but Zeref stopped trying to die after Igneel's power ran out. He just wanted to have a good fight, which he planned on winning. So if he did plan on reawakening END, it was to beat him up.
 
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Seven777

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Power of the dead is just magic that belonged to a dead person. Lots of characters have it. Besides, Zeref took note of how strong Igneel's flames were when Natsu first took off his bandages. It's clearly superior to regular FDK.

Zeref lost his composure due to the curse. He was pretty much fine after that, when he blasted Natsu. Even when Natsu entered DF, he looked perfectly fine.

His condition would have gotten progressively worse, yes. There would have been a point where the rage he felt over Lucy's death wouldn't be able to keep up with his declining health. We simply didn't see that in his fight with Gray because the POF still outweighed the cancer, so to speak. I doubt Natsu would have had weeks. He went cold and his heart stopped beating by the time they arrived at Porlyusica.

Natsu's negative emotions are literally the source of END's power. When you take away those negative emotions, the transformation simply dissipates. If Natsu found out that Lucy was okay after he beat up Dimaria, he would have just collapsed right back into a coma. What do you mean that it's END's transformation and not Natsu's emotions that's keeping him out of the coma? The transformation is fueled by his emotions.

We do know that Zeref hadn't attempt to reawaken END for his suicide plan....Because he literally told us his entire plan, and literally not once did he mention using END. What example? Killing Gray right before the final fight? Well okay, but Zeref stopped trying to die after Igneel's power ran out. He just wanted to have a good fight, which he planned on winning. So if he did plan on reawakening END, it was to beat him up.
Yeah, but like I said, not by that much.

Why would losing composure make you pant in exhaustion? The dude was clearly trashed, shown in both his exhausted demeanor and the physical injuries visible on him.

Except it didn't, at all, he wasn't slowing down after the instance with Dimaria, on the contrary he was only getting even more fired up.
And yet he still lived on and on. You can call ENDs transformation his negative emotions if you like, it doesn't matter, the bottom line is that it kept Natsu standing and fighting despite the fusion, it eliminated the symptoms of his cancer entirely.

No, we don't, I have already given you an example of what could have been Zeref trying to awaken END.
And yeah, he told us the plan, a plan that only makes sense if Natsu is END, a plan that he revealed as he was revealing to Natsu that he was END lol. That whole conversation was about Natsu being END. He literally told Natsu that he was END and then explained that he wanted Natsu to kill him.
Yep, killing Gray, killing Makarov and doing both specifically to trigger Natsu's "negative emotions" as you called them. As for him intending to beat Natsu, sure, he always intended to crush Natsu, and to be crushed by him, that's literally a quote from the manga.
 

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There is no proof that his other powers or forms can, yet he hoped for END’s resurrection
 

LaGOAT

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But the end of the day END is still weaker than current,base,DF and IG natsu. And wasn’t prove that end could kill zeref
 

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That is weakened END, and the Spriggans considered that a threat to Zeref
 

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WoWfan

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Speculation, not certainty or fact
 

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As long as you accept that END is a threat to Zeref
 
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WoWfan

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Well Dragon Gods are likely Moon level or higher now with recent chapter
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Why can’t we laugh react
Well he scales to Spriggans who are country level
 

Axiomus

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Yeah, but like I said, not by that much.

Why would losing composure make you pant in exhaustion? The dude was clearly trashed, shown in both his exhausted demeanor and the physical injuries visible on him.

Except it didn't, at all, he wasn't slowing down after the instance with Dimaria, on the contrary he was only getting even more fired up.
And yet he still lived on and on. You can call ENDs transformation his negative emotions if you like, it doesn't matter, the bottom line is that it kept Natsu standing and fighting despite the fusion, it eliminated the symptoms of his cancer entirely.

No, we don't, I have already given you an example of what could have been Zeref trying to awaken END.
And yeah, he told us the plan, a plan that only makes sense if Natsu is END, a plan that he revealed as he was revealing to Natsu that he was END lol. That whole conversation was about Natsu being END. He literally told Natsu that he was END and then explained that he wanted Natsu to kill him.
Yep, killing Gray, killing Makarov and doing both specifically to trigger Natsu's "negative emotions" as you called them. As for him intending to beat Natsu, sure, he always intended to crush Natsu, and to be crushed by him, that's literally a quote from the manga.
You don't think Igneel's power made a huge difference? Igneel's power made Natsu's regular attacks stronger than his FDK attacks.

Again, Zeref was fine afterwards. He blasted Natsu with his black magic and was prepared to face DF Natsu. He was confident that he could beat DF Natsu too. I'm not convinced that END could kill Zeref even if he could do everything base Natsu did to Zeref, because base Natsu simply wasn't winning that fight. If you don't believe that END would have gotten stronger, then I'm not even sure I believe he would get past Gray and I would put money that Erza straight up defeats him. If you rank Zeref below Gray and Erza, that's a separate discussion.

Like I said, his emotions over Lucy's death outweighed his declining health....At that time. Same way cancer patients can still play sports if you pump them full of adrenaline. I mean, you could make the argument that Natsu wasn't getting weaker throughout his fight with Gray....But I can make the argument that END wasn't as strong as Natsu at his best to begin with.

The plan was for Igneel to train Natsu to become strong enough to kill him. Then during the Tartaros arc, he told Natsu that he would have the option of destroying END and hope that he did the next time they met, which would be when they would fight. Where does END fit into all of this? Ironically, that is actually one of the rare instances where we can't take Zeref's words at face value because the curse was actively making him crazy. He was saying contradictory statements back to back. Anyways, we know that Zeref planned on winning the 2nd fight. Even if were to reawaken END, that still doesn't prove END could kill him.
 

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As long as you accept that END is a threat to Zeref
That’s fine it’s factual that the other form of natsu>end.
 

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That’s fine it’s factual that the other form of natsu>end.
Well as long as you understand that END>headcanon form of Natsu
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Axiomus, If anything, Igneel’s power is more hax than anything else since it reacts to the likes of Spriggans.
 

Seven777

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You don't think Igneel's power made a huge difference? Igneel's power made Natsu's regular attacks stronger than his FDK attacks.

Again, Zeref was fine afterwards. He blasted Natsu with his black magic and was prepared to face DF Natsu. He was confident that he could beat DF Natsu too. I'm not convinced that END could kill Zeref even if he could do everything base Natsu did to Zeref, because base Natsu simply wasn't winning that fight. If you don't believe that END would have gotten stronger, then I'm not even sure I believe he would get past Gray and I would put money that Erza straight up defeats him. If you rank Zeref below Gray and Erza, that's a separate discussion.

Like I said, his emotions over Lucy's death outweighed his declining health....At that time. Same way cancer patients can still play sports if you pump them full of adrenaline. I mean, you could make the argument that Natsu wasn't getting weaker throughout his fight with Gray....But I can make the argument that END wasn't as strong as Natsu at his best to begin with.

The plan was for Igneel to train Natsu to become strong enough to kill him. Then during the Tartaros arc, he told Natsu that he would have the option of destroying END and hope that he did the next time they met, which would be when they would fight. Where does END fit into all of this? Ironically, that is actually one of the rare instances where we can't take Zeref's words at face value because the curse was actively making him crazy. He was saying contradictory statements back to back. Anyways, we know that Zeref planned on winning the 2nd fight. Even if were to reawaken END, that still doesn't prove END could kill him.
Not really, certainly less of a difference than Dragon Force as you yourself have previously agreed as I recall. As for his regular attacks being stronger than FDK attacks, meh, Base Natsu can do more than Base IgNatsu did, though it took more time and effort.

No, he wasn't beaten, he was still trashed, he was also clearly relying on his immortality, something END doesn't have to worry about.
Base Natsu doesn't need to win that fight for me to consider END capable of killing Zeref, he just has to push it to high diff, which he did.
I'm not sure END would've got past Gray either, I still think he kills Zeref, but like you said, a separate discussion.

If that were true then END's health would've been declining since he beat Dimaria, it wasn't. END's transformation didn't just limit the fusions symptoms, it cleared them outright.
Sure... and I could make the argument that IgNatsu was weaker than Natsu too. Tbh the place i rank END isn't all that different from where I rank IgNatsu, so if you want to play that game we can play that game.

This is Zeref explaining his plan summed up, and in the order that he explained it: END=Natsu=the person who will kill me.
It doesn't take a huge stretch in logic for me to get END=The person who will kill me, is it? I don't think so, It's basic math. Then when you take into consideration that END killing Zeref has been hyped for ages and that Zeref's entire plan makes absolutely no sense if Natsu isn't END, and I feel pretty damn confident in saying that my theory is as close to canon as it can get.
As for Zeref intending to win the second fight, that was after Gray had left and his chance to trigger END had vanished. Before then he specifically stated that he wanted to draw out Natsu's greatest strength with Gray's death, with Natsu's anger and sadness, he wanted to feed Natsu's negative emotions, which in your words, is END.
 

LaGOAT

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Well as long as you understand that END>headcanon form of Natsu
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Axiomus, If anything, Igneel’s power is more hax than anything else since it reacts to the likes of Spriggans.
Ya the headcanon form of natsu which is non existent I guess but DF,base and ig natsu are actually canon to the story that I’m talking about. all stronger than end
 
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WoWfan

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Ya the headcanon form of natsu which is non existent I guess but DF,base and ig natsu are actually canon on the story that I’m taking about. all stronger than end
As long as you acknoledged that the form you believe is headcanon is nonexistent is fine, so END complete is Zeref level
 
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