Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[LaGOAT]

As long as you acknoledged that the form you believe is headcanon is nonexistent is fine, so END complete is Zeref level

As long u don’t ignore facts that zeref said end can’t beat him And base natsu>FH zeref

 

[WoWfan]

As long u don’t ignore facts that zeref said end can’t beat him And base natsu>FH zeref

Since Zeref said that he wants END to destroy him in their fight. That would more or less confirm it

 

[LaGOAT]

As long as you acknoledged that the form you believe is headcanon is nonexistent is fine, so END complete is Zeref level

And zeref

Since Zeref said that he wants END to destroy him in their fight. That would more or less confirm it

U ignore the fact that base natsu>end. And then said that end can’t beat him soo...

 

[WoWfan]

you ignore that END is stated to be a threat to Zeref. which you acknowledged that your headcanon Natsu form is nonexistent

 

[LaGOAT]

you ignore that END is stated to be a threat to Zeref. which you acknowledged that your headcanon Natsu form is nonexistent

threat doesn’t mean stronger my gullible friend. U can’t prove zeref said what u say I can that’s the major difference. Headcanon is ur imaginary thoughts of believing something that doesn’t exist in the manga. Until u prove that end>DF,base and ig natsu we need feats to conduct ur logic

 

[WoWfan]

Actually it does as a threat is to cause harm to something or someone, Zeref literally stated in their rematch that he wants END to destroy him. Don’t pretend you do not notice that. I have proven to you before that END was in the process of transformation, so there was a full form somewhere.

 

[Sheridan Cain]

Is base Mard Geer strong enough to bust the Plutogrim?

Celestial Spirit King did, and Mard Geer blocked an attack from him.

 

[LaGOAT]

Actually it does as a threat is to cause harm to something or someone, Zeref literally stated in their rematch that he wants END to destroy him. Don’t pretend you do not notice that. I have proven to you before that END was in the process of transformation, so there was a full form somewhere.

causing harm to something or some1 doesnt mean stronger. come on i know u know the difference. n when he was talking to mavis he said END cant beat him. why ur pretending u didnt read the same chapter idk. u cant prove that wasnt his full form vs gray as u was assuming he would like a demon like creature. and also have no proof that he can down gray. while i told u that base natsu beat him.

 

[WoWfan]

actually it does if you are not stronger then you can't cause harm. He said that while he was using Dragon Slayer Magic, not his actual Curse power. read closer next time, all we saw was his arms changing, and stopped, just like how Dragon Force is just the process of transforming into a Dragon, meaning there is more to go. Gray was going to go down either way.

 

[LaGOAT]

actually it does if you are not stronger then you can't cause harm. He said that while he was using Dragon Slayer Magic, not his actual Curse power. read closer next time, all we saw was his arms changing, and stopped, just like how Dragon Force is just the process of transforming into a Dragon, meaning there is more to go. Gray was going to go down either way.

didnt ig natsu cause harm? u coud say that he could kill zeref. or when base natsu he actually beat him we can play this game all night long. zeref till said no1 could kill him rather if he was talking about dragon slayer magic or not ur making stuff up. except we didnt see any changing when he fought gray nice try tho. you have no proof or that gray would be down. who knows gray could have beaten him

 

[WoWfan]

Did IG Natsu defeat and/or killed Zeref? No he didn't. and with Savage Flames Natsu, Zeref would just be up and about in a moment. He was explicitly talking about Dragon Slayer Magic that he could not kill him with, not END's curse powers which counter god abilities, we did, his hands were normal one moment, and then started becoming demonic overtime. He was literally stabbed he went down the moment after the final clash.

 

[Axiomus]

Not really, certainly less of a difference than Dragon Force as you yourself have previously agreed as I recall. As for his regular attacks being stronger than FDK attacks, meh, Base Natsu can do more than Base IgNatsu did, though it took more time and effort.

No, he wasn't beaten, he was still trashed, he was also clearly relying on his immortality, something END doesn't have to worry about.
Base Natsu doesn't need to win that fight for me to consider END capable of killing Zeref, he just has to push it to high diff, which he did.
I'm not sure END would've got past Gray either, I still think he kills Zeref, but like you said, a separate discussion.

If that were true then END's health would've been declining since he beat Dimaria, it wasn't. END's transformation didn't just limit the fusions symptoms, it cleared them outright.
Sure... and I could make the argument that IgNatsu was weaker than Natsu too. Tbh the place i rank END isn't all that different from where I rank IgNatsu, so if you want to play that game we can play that game.

This is Zeref explaining his plan summed up, and in the order that he explained it: END=Natsu=the person who will kill me.
It doesn't take a huge stretch in logic for me to get END=The person who will kill me, is it? I don't think so, It's basic math. Then when you take into consideration that END killing Zeref has been hyped for ages and that Zeref's entire plan makes absolutely no sense if Natsu isn't END, and I feel pretty damn confident in saying that my theory is as close to canon as it can get.
As for Zeref intending to win the second fight, that was after Gray had left and his chance to trigger END had vanished. Before then he specifically stated that he wanted to draw out Natsu's greatest strength with Gray's death, with Natsu's anger and sadness, he wanted to feed Natsu's negative emotions, which in your words, is END.

Igneel's power is much stronger than regular FDK, but might be weaker than Dragon Force. END's power hasn't been shown to be much stronger than base Natsu. I don't even rate any of it's attacks better than demolition fist. Base Natsu was losing against Zeref, whereas IgNatsu was basically dominating their exchanges. Igneel's power might be weaker than Dragon Force , but it's still significantly stronger than any of Natsu's regular FDK attacks. I would rank the FDK finisher than Natsu used against Zeref above FDK Purgatory. The same cannot be said for END. At best, I would rank END's attacks on par with a regular demolition fist.

You have to at least be able to beat Zeref to have a chance at killing him. Otherwise you simply lose the fight. Zeref's immortality heals him from injuries after a short while. If Zeref can still move and fight, that's simply his natural durability at work.

The transformation didn't destroy the seeds, nor stop them from fusing. Even if Natsu showed no immediate symptoms, he was still dying. Gray was in bad shape too from his wound, but his POF also carried him through the fight.

The story treats Natsu's powers and END's powers as separate things. Zeref sent Natsu to be off to be trained by Igneel to become strong enough to kill him. During the Tartaros arc, he told Natsu that he will have the option destroying END, and that he hopes Natsu would face him as himself. Okay, so Natsu goes on to fight Zeref with Igneel's power....and that's really the only time where we are lead to believe that Zeref had a realistic chance of dying. After that, Zeref no longer believes anything can kill him. Where exactly does END's power fit into any of this? And what pages are you referring to when you think Zeref is saying that END can kill him?

 

[WoWfan]

Which Zeref later hoped that END was resurrected, END’s power revolves around countering God based powers, that includes Zeref’s immortality.

 

[LaGOAT]

Did IG Natsu defeat and/or killed Zeref? No he didn't. and with Savage Flames Natsu, Zeref would just be up and about in a moment. He was explicitly talking about Dragon Slayer Magic that he could not kill him with, not END's curse powers which counter god abilities, we did, his hands were normal one moment, and then started becoming demonic overtime. He was literally stabbed he went down the moment after the final clash.

except what u dont understand is u dont have to kill some1 to prove that ur stronger. natsu have done that many times in the series. or else u would believe that zeref>acno. judging feats it cant plus zeref said that end cant beat him in the past which is why he went to ingeel. ds magic>curse power those are factual. stabbed by who?? both natsu and gray feel cuz of erza stopped the fight again u dont know who would have won.

 

[WoWfan]

In the case of Zeref, that does not apply, Acno is stronger than Acno yet Acno cannot kill Zeref. It literally shows Natsu using DSM that Zeref judged to not be enough, not his Curse Power. END had not awakened his power, giving Natsu to Igneel did nothing to help though. DS did not kill Zeref, though END’s power likely would have, stabbed himself, no, Gray stopped on his own, for sure if Natsu had full transformed, Gray would have lost

 

[LaGOAT]

In the case of Zeref, that does not apply, Acno is stronger than Acno yet Acno cannot kill Zeref. It literally shows Natsu using DSM that Zeref judged to not be enough, not his Curse Power. END had not awakened his power, giving Natsu to Igneel did nothing to help though. DS did not kill Zeref, though END’s power likely would have, stabbed himself, no, Gray stopped on his own, for sure if Natsu had full transformed, Gray would have lost

Natsu best zeref plain blank simple don’t deny facts my brother with ds magic so again ur wrong. Doesn’t matter natsu beat zeref that’s proves he is stronger. Pure speculation with no evidence

 

[WoWfan]

The fact that Zeref did not die means that Natsu without END’s power is incapable of killing him, you are wrong, Zeref was about to get back up, that is not really a defeat as he can get back up to attack soon. That is simple truth.

 

[Cosmicstar]

Marde Geer never blocked a CSK attack it was the other way around.

Feat wise Marde Geer has no attack power to suggest he could.

 

[Acnologia2415]

Marde Geer never blocked a CSK attack it was the other way around.

Feat wise Marde Geer has no attack power to suggest he could.

In the anime at least, Mard blocked an attack from the CSK. I dont know if the manga includes that.

 

[Seven777]

Igneel's power is much stronger than regular FDK, but might be weaker than Dragon Force. END's power hasn't been shown to be much stronger than base Natsu. I don't even rate any of it's attacks better than demolition fist. Base Natsu was losing against Zeref, whereas IgNatsu was basically dominating their exchanges. Igneel's power might be weaker than Dragon Force , but it's still significantly stronger than any of Natsu's regular FDK attacks. I would rank the FDK finisher than Natsu used against Zeref above FDK Purgatory. The same cannot be said for END. At best, I would rank END's attacks on par with a regular demolition fist.

You have to at least be able to beat Zeref to have a chance at killing him. Otherwise you simply lose the fight. Zeref's immortality heals him from injuries after a short while. If Zeref can still move and fight, that's simply his natural durability at work.

The transformation didn't destroy the seeds, nor stop them from fusing. Even if Natsu showed no immediate symptoms, he was still dying. Gray was in bad shape too from his wound, but his POF also carried him through the fight.

The story treats Natsu's powers and END's powers as separate things. Zeref sent Natsu to be off to be trained by Igneel to become strong enough to kill him. During the Tartaros arc, he told Natsu that he will have the option destroying END, and that he hopes Natsu would face him as himself. Okay, so Natsu goes on to fight Zeref with Igneel's power....and that's really the only time where we are lead to believe that Zeref had a realistic chance of dying. After that, Zeref no longer believes anything can kill him. Where exactly does END's power fit into any of this? And what pages are you referring to when you think Zeref is saying that END can kill him?

END is much stronger than FDK, but might be weaker than Dragon Force. Igneel's power hasn't been shown to be much stronger than base Natsu. The fact is that despite their hype, neither of those modes accomplished anything substantial. Base Natsu exhausted Zeref more than Base IgNatsu, END has only fought Gray and Dimaria.

Sure, and i think END could beat him.

I didn't say it did, I said it eliminated all symptoms of the fusion. Nothing suggests that he was still dying. Sure, and without Erza Gray would've pushed on too.

Yes, which only makes sense if Natsu is END.
No, he hopes Natsu is who he sees.
Not so, when confronted with Gray he specifically said he intended to draw out Natsu's greatest power with negative emotions, which as you said, is END.
When he revealed to Natsu that he is END.