Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Nie Li]

But that's all of Natsu's fight if were being honest. Lose then turn things around mid fight and win.


Yea that' what I meant. Invel was superior to Gray basic or DeS and the latter needed PoF. Apologies if it seemed like I was going in circles..



But there's also Laxus who had cancer and was fighting someone who he was explicitly advantaged. He also went on to fight historia Hades after. My argument is that Laxus had a better arc.



But Gray's strength was hard to compare to others after Tartaros because he seemed so beastly against demons, not humans.

True, true.

If we're talking about who had the better arc then definitely Laxus. I liked Invel more than Wahl, but Gray's arc was just a mess with a weak resolution.

 

[Ramen]

If we're talking about who had the better arc then definitely Laxus. I liked Invel more than Wahl, but Gray's arc was just a mess with a weak resolution.

That's what I'm arguing right now.

 

[GL_Nova]

I'd say he took nearly no damage him the attack itself, and got knocked out because of drowning. This explains why he didn't even have a single scratch from that attack, and got up immediately after Kagura sucked out water from him.
He also took no damage from Kyria's roar, which managed to one shot Lucy and Wendy.
I'm not saying he's high in dura or something, but he isn't fodder in dura either. He's got some pretty decent dura feats in x791 and before, which should extrapolate as he grew stronger.

Against hax opponents, yeah. Hax makes things complicated.

But yes, Jellol lacks conclusive feats for comparison.
He one shotted fodderhart with a mid tier move, which doesn't mean much since the guy is fodder in stats.
His feats against Acno don't mean much (except in speed), since we all know Acno would've one shot him if he was serious.
He one shotted Gears with a mid tier move, but we don't know where Gears would be except that he's likely no 2 among God seeds from Aldo's reaction to him going down.

He gaurded himself against her roar though, whereas Laxus just genuinely tanked it. Most of the time we see Jellal preferring to set up a barrier instead of tank an attack.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 22, 2020 ---

Also, quick question. Why is everyone ignoring that Wahl literally absorbs lightning and electricity and turns it to power? It’s not just an immunity. Wahl is absorbing Laxus blows and adding that to his own power, and Laxus was still dominating the fight.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 22, 2020 ---

Also, quick question. Why is everyone ignoring that Wahl literally absorbs lightning and electricity and turns it to power? It’s not just an immunity. Wahl is absorbing Laxus blows and adding that to his own power, and Laxus was still dominating the fight.

 

[Loke]

Also, quick question. Why is everyone ignoring that Wahl literally absorbs lightning and electricity and turns it to power? It’s not just an immunity. Wahl is absorbing Laxus blows and adding that to his own power, and Laxus was still dominating the fight.

Well technically he uses a technique called voltage charge that we never see him employ in his true body to do that. He really just fought the battle relying on immunity.

 

[Axiomus]

Difference is Base Natsu was stronger when he used the FDK spell than he was when using END.
Lucy isn't Base Natsu tier, give END to Gajeel and he's hanging with Dark Gray, same as Natsu. As for it being reliant on Natsu's emotions, I mean sure, in the sense that he needs them to access the power(unless he willingly chooses to) but even in it's sleeper form END's power is great regardless of emotion, Natsu simply isn't able to access it or willing to use it.

FDK is a type of power, as is END, you're claiming that FDK is the superior form in power(at least that's what I got from what you said) because of what it did to Zeref, however I'm claiming that it's not the case because it wasn't FDK's strength that claimed the victory, it was Base Natsu's strength.
Let me put it in perspective, Grand Chariot is not superior to Sema simply because Grand Chariot beat Neinhart, Jellal's baseline strength was just greater now than when Jellal last used Sema in Tartaros. Similarly Natsu's Demolition Fist isn't superior to END, because Natsu's baseline strength with guild power is simply greater than it was when he was using END.

It's no longer base Natsu if he's using an FDK spell. He's no longer using regular flames.

Gajeel could arguably already hang with Gray (and by extension END) even without a power-up.

Natsu being able to use POF to boost his FDK spells is a reason why FDK is stronger than END's power, not an argument against it. The grand chariot that Jellal used against Neinhart is superior to his Sema used during the Tartaros arc. Now we can make the educated guess that current Jella's Sema is stronger than Grand Chariot, because Sema was stronger than Grand Chariot in previous arcs. I don't see any reason to make this assumption for FDK and END, because FDK has better feats than END in the same arc.

I don't really separate a character's power from the character. Sure, FDK wouldn't be as OP if someone less OP than Natsu had it. But the reverse is also true. Strictly speaking, FDK is Igneel's fire. Or rather, it's Natsu using his own MP to create Igneel's fire. Obviously we can get Igneel to create the same type of fire, and Igneel is stronger than END too. Soooo....

 

[GL_Nova]

Where is the idea that Wahl is a low tier Spriggan coming from? He’s slick got one of, it not, the best showings. He can create soldiers to challenge S Class Mages effortlessly. An was able to create a copy of his, that performed as well as the other Spriggan present. Their tracker couldn’t even tell the signal apart. An he was able to go toe to toe with Laxus. Laxus had the better showing, but he’s one of the biggest guns FT has.

Well technically he uses a technique called voltage charge that we never see him employ in his true body to do that. He really just fought the battle relying on immunity.

The only explanation for why he isn’t effected by lightning given is that he’s evolved beyond his weakness, turning it into a strength by absorbing the lightning for power. There is no secondary immunity mentioned.

 

[Ramen]

Where is the idea that Wahl is a low tier Spriggan coming from?

That's the thing, he isn't.

It's because Laxus was so much stronger when you look at it that downplay comes into question. That isn't a knock against Wahl, that's a compliment for Laxus.

 

[Loke]

Where is the idea that Wahl is a low tier Spriggan coming from? He’s slick got one of, it not, the best showings. He can create soldiers to challenge S Class Mages effortlessly. An was able to create a copy of his, that performed as well as the other Spriggan present. Their tracker couldn’t even tell the signal apart. An he was able to go toe to toe with Laxus. Laxus had the better showing, but he’s one of the biggest guns FT has.




The only explanation for why he isn’t effected by lightning given is that he’s evolved beyond his weakness, turning it into a strength by absorbing the lightning for power. There is no secondary immunity mentioned.

And once again, he used a technique that we never see him use against Laxus to convert that lightning into power. Nothing in the entire battle indicates Wahl was gaining in strength.

 

[GL_Nova]

And once again, he used a technique that we never see him use against Laxus to convert that lightning into power. Nothing in the entire battle indicates Wahl was gaining in strength.

Where is it said he’s got a seperate source of immunity?

 

[sharkai]

wahl is not a low tier springgan. but haxy springgan made things complicated.

wahl lightening immunity works in a special way.
machina are weak to lightening. wahl developed a technique (or device) which allowed him to redirect lightening to his weapons (charge attacks). so whenever laxus hit him with lightening, wahl will hit him with stronger move (some if not all will be powered by laxus lightening). keep in mind wahl actually powered up laxus with that railgun.

once wahl technique (device) failed, incase of red lightening, as wahl AI clearly stated it did not recognize it. this lightening could not be inputed or redirected like normal formats of lightening could be. thus wahl device failed, and he died.

red lightening at that time didnt need to be laxus strongest move (same kind of thing happened with gildarts, his mechnical hand move didnt need to be his strongest)

 

[Seven777]

It's no longer base Natsu if he's using an FDK spell. He's no longer using regular flames.

Gajeel could arguably already hang with Gray (and by extension END) even without a power-up.

Natsu being able to use POF to boost his FDK spells is a reason why FDK is stronger than END's power, not an argument against it. The grand chariot that Jellal used against Neinhart is superior to his Sema used during the Tartaros arc. Now we can make the educated guess that current Jella's Sema is stronger than Grand Chariot, because Sema was stronger than Grand Chariot in previous arcs. I don't see any reason to make this assumption for FDK and END, because FDK has better feats than END in the same arc.

I don't really separate a character's power from the character. Sure, FDK wouldn't be as OP if someone less OP than Natsu had it. But the reverse is also true. Strictly speaking, FDK is Igneel's fire. Or rather, it's Natsu using his own MP to create Igneel's fire. Obviously we can get Igneel to create the same type of fire, and Igneel is stronger than END too. Soooo....

I generally agree with that, but you're misinterpreting what I mean by Base Natsu, I'll explain below.

Sure, he could also arguably hang with IgNatsu given it's performance. Though I rank base IgNatsu below normal FDK Natsu

It's Natsu that uses PoF, not FDK or END, that's my point. Using a spell when amped by guild power doesn't give credit to the spell, it gives credit to the guild power.
Yes, and the FDK spell he used on Zeref is superior to his END attacks too, but just like Grand Chariot not being a superior spell to Sema, FDK Flames aren't superior to END flames, because the Natsu who used it was stronger. As for this being the same arc, that doesn't matter, thanks to guild amp Natsu was stronger against Zeref than he was when he became END, significantly stronger, being in the same arc doesn't change that. Similarly Atlas Flame amped Natsu was stronger than GMG Natsu in the same arc too.

You sure? You rank IgNatsu's FDK above base Natsu's FDK, right? Is that not because IgNatsu is stronger than Base Natsu?
As for Igneel, he's stronger than END because his base strength is. Even with just physical power, no FDK, no magic at all, Igneel is already almost as strong as Acnologia.

 

[WoWfan]

Red Lightning would still make Laxus stronger from the damage that he sustained, even before that, Wall still managed to hold his own against Laxus' attacks, this would speak volumes of their strength

 

[Newperson00]

Which rank would everyone in FT be without the PoF? from Low to Top

 

[Axiomus]

I generally agree with that, but you're misinterpreting what I mean by Base Natsu, I'll explain below.

Sure, he could also arguably hang with IgNatsu given it's performance. Though I rank base IgNatsu below normal FDK Natsu

It's Natsu that uses PoF, not FDK or END, that's my point. Using a spell when amped by guild power doesn't give credit to the spell, it gives credit to the guild power.
Yes, and the FDK spell he used on Zeref is superior to his END attacks too, but just like Grand Chariot not being a superior spell to Sema, FDK Flames aren't superior to END flames, because the Natsu who used it was stronger. As for this being the same arc, that doesn't matter, thanks to guild amp Natsu was stronger against Zeref than he was when he became END, significantly stronger, being in the same arc doesn't change that. Similarly Atlas Flame amped Natsu was stronger than GMG Natsu in the same arc too.

You sure? You rank IgNatsu's FDK above base Natsu's FDK, right? Is that not because IgNatsu is stronger than Base Natsu?
As for Igneel, he's stronger than END because his base strength is. Even with just physical power, no FDK, no magic at all, Igneel is already almost as strong as Acnologia.

Yes, I do rank Igneel's power above FDK without POF. Zeref having just witnessed an FDK roar was still more impressed by Igneel's power. I consider every single attack that Natsu threw at Zeref above the FDK roar he used on the army.

I disagree with Gajeel being able to hang with Igneel's power. The FDK finisher will take him out.

Both FDK and END's power are affected by Natsu's emotions. The only difference is that END's power, being a curse, draws upon Natsu's negative emotions. FDK, being magic, can draw upon Natsu's feelings for the guild. This is precisely why FDK's high end feats will always be better. Do I think that this is necessarily limited to FDK? No. Also, Atlas Flame's power-up isn't really the same as Flames of Savage Emotions either. Flames of savage emotions is really just POF taken to the extreme. Atlas Flame's power was Natsu eating for a power-up.

Well, yes....Igneel was physically stronger than END, but I would argue that his flames are stronger too. Ignia's flames were so hot that they could burn Natsu's arms, which I would argue puts it in the ballpark of Savage Flames in terms of heat. All this came from the one attack that Ignia used to bombard Elmina. I would imagine that Igneel with a full tank can use attacks on this level too.

 

[Seven777]

Yes, I do rank Igneel's power above FDK without POF. Zeref having just witnessed an FDK roar was still more impressed by Igneel's power. I consider every single attack that Natsu threw at Zeref above the FDK roar he used on the army.

I disagree with Gajeel being able to hang with Igneel's power. The FDK finisher will take him out.

Both FDK and END's power are affected by Natsu's emotions. The only difference is that END's power, being a curse, draws upon Natsu's negative emotions. FDK, being magic, can draw upon Natsu's feelings for the guild. This is precisely why FDK's high end feats will always be better. Do I think that this is necessarily limited to FDK? No. Also, Atlas Flame's power-up isn't really the same as Flames of Savage Emotions either. Flames of savage emotions is really just POF taken to the extreme. Atlas Flame's power was Natsu eating for a power-up.

Well, yes....Igneel was physically stronger than END, but I would argue that his flames are stronger too. Ignia's flames were so hot that they could burn Natsu's arms, which I would argue puts it in the ballpark of Savage Flames in terms of heat. All this came from the one attack that Ignia used to bombard Elmina. I would imagine that Igneel with a full tank can use attacks on this level too.

Good, because that's exactly my point. Natsu's baseline strength was greater, so his FDK attacks were greater.

Yeah, I know, but you rank IgNatsu significantly higher than I do. For me it'd be FDK IgNatsu>END>FDK Natsu>Base IgNatsu>Base Natsu, without the gap between any of them being particularly significant.

They also both exist outside of Natsu's emotions, they have a baseline strength.
FDK's high end feats are better, because Savage Natsu was better when using them, it is Base Natsu's strength that determines FDKs strength, FDK itself doesn't really do anything other than be one of his stronger attacks. As for it being capable or using positive emotions rather than negative ones, that's only if Natsu is feeling more positive than negative, and even then it's not ordinary PoF. If you want to say FDK has the potential to exceed END because Natsu is generally more positive and no one dies in FT, then sure, I'll generally agree, but beyond that, no.
Flames of savage emotions are him using the power of the guild, I see no difference between that and him using Atlas Flames power.

His flames are stronger too because Igneel's baseline strength is greater, same with Ignia.

 

[Ramen]

Good, because that's exactly my point. Natsu's baseline strength was greater, so his FDK attacks were greater.

Yeah, I know, but you rank IgNatsu significantly higher than I do. To me Base IgNatsu isn't that much better than Base Natsu.

They also both exist outside of Natsu's emotions, they have a baseline strength.
FDK's high end feats are better, because Savage Natsu was better when using them, it is Base Natsu's strength that determines FDKs strength, FDK itself doesn't really do anything other than be one of his stronger attacks. As for it being capable or using positive emotions rather than negative ones, that's only if Natsu is feeling more positive than negative, and even then it's not ordinary PoF. If you want to say FDK has the potential to exceed END because Natsu is generally more positive and no one dies in FT, then sure, I'll generally agree, but beyond that, no.
Flames of savage emotions are him using the power of the guild, I see no difference between that and him using Atlas Flames power.

His flames are stronger too because Igneel's baseline strength is greater, same with Ignia.

Gray solos all of so does it really matter.

 

[Seven777]

Gray solos all of so does it really matter.

Obviously. Gray>Rufus>Acno>Savage Natsu. Everyone knows that.

 

[Ramen]

Obviously. Gray>Rufus>Acno>Savage Natsu, everyone knows that.

No but seriously, throw me your guild rankings. Yours are always hilarious.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 22, 2020 ---

Both FDK and END's power are affected by Natsu's emotions.

Not at base level. Natsu uses PoF when he wants to and adds FDK.

 

[Seven777]

No but seriously, throw me your guild rankings. Yours are always hilarious.

Ha, I guess I'll have to, but it's actually pretty standard

DF Natsu
Gildarts
Laxus
Mystogan(mark my words)
Erza
Mirajane
Natsu
Gray
Gajeel
Elfman
Juvia
Lucy
Wendy
Freed
Max

Natsu's rank can jump anywhere on the list though, his strength varies. Gray jumps with him, wherever Natsu is, Gray is. We just need to wait for Gray to get a power up from Selene or something, idk, maybe he'll find Zeref's corpse and eat it.

 

[Ramen]

Ha, I guess I'll have to, but it's actually pretty standard

DF Natsu
Gildarts
Laxus
Mystogan(mark my words)
Erza
Mirajane
Natsu
Gray
Gajeel
Elfman
Juvia
Lucy
Wendy
Freed
Max

Natsu's rank can jump anywhere on the list though, his strength varies. Gray jumps with him, wherever Natsu is, Gray is. We just need to wait for Gray to get a power up from Selene or something, idk, maybe he'll find Zeref's corpse and eat it.

Hmmmmmm........Expected tbh. I won't debate it but what's up with the Mystogan?